Kerry vs Hillary in 2008 (bipolar poll)

[IndianaGreen]

Poll question: Kerry vs Hillary in 2008 (bipolar poll)

Assume the race for 2008 finally boils down to two candidates by convention time: John Kerry and Hillary Clinton. Which one will you choose?

[mtnester]

1. You really must include Other

Really :)

[jojo54]

2. I agree....Other.

If I had my druthers................

[IndianaGreen]

4. It is a bipolar poll

hold your nose if you must!

[mtnester]

6. Nope, I would rather take my bipolar medicine than hold my nose on

sorry :)

[IndianaGreen]

7. We might face such a choice in 2008

and if Hillary is the nominee we might just have to do another 2004-style ABB just to save the country. Hillary may not be who we want as President, but when compared to the GOP, Hillary will stop the hemorrhage and get this country on a path to be healed.

[podnoi]

31. Then we will lose the election!

I would vote an independant candidate because we would lose this election anyway. I refuse to continue the status quo. Why would we even let such a choice happen? It is sadistic ;)

[IndianaGreen]

3. I think I will take the winner of this poll and pair him/her with

another potential candidate in another bipolar poll. Remember that the premise of this poll is that we are at the end of the primary season and there are only two candidates having a shot at winning the nomination. A possible brokered convention perhaps.

You are a delegate for someone else, who will you throw your support?

BTW, were I to vote on this poll, I would vote against Hillary. Her DLC speech took the cake. However, I reserve the right to change my mind about Hillary during the primary season.

[Catchawave]

20. Why.......?

There will be 156+ 'other' votes from the Clarkies, and they'll be---> :grr:

I like one-on-one polls. Sets the mood for where DU is today in their thoughts and feelings. Candidates are already setting up PACs, so no, I don't think it's too soon to be discussing this either :)

[blm]

22. Actually, I think it's soon because what will really determine who wins

will be the debates.

[Catchawave]

23. The debates are almost 3 years away......

...that's no fun :)

Oh, but I agree, the real nitty-gritty of the primary season will start in late '07/early '08. Lightyears away in DU time. I'm not sure about others here, but Bush Bashing gets tiresome, I much rather play with more positive roll models and move on from what "coulda been, to what could be" right now. That is, if we still have a country left :silly:

[blm]

24. heheh...gotcha...but, you can ponder who you THINK will win the debates.

If you must ponder.

;))))))

[Meldread]

5. Ugggghhh...

I'd prefer neither. Kerry had his shot and sold us out. Hillary hasn't had a shot yet, but has already done more than her fair share of selling us out. I'd prefer to have someone with principles and lose, than win with a sell out.

If I had to absolutely pick I would pick Kerry. Though I wouldn't be happy.

[Tesla]

8. I want OTHER!!!!

Repeal the 23rd!!!

[podnoi]

30. Yep. I can't answer this poll. OTHER!!!!

[Totally Committed]

9. I'd kill myself,

or I'd stay home in absolute disgust. Maybe both.

[blm]

21. Yeah, it's easy to loathe the lawmaker who exposed more govt. corruption

than any other in modern times.

Especially if you're protecting Republican interests.

[Totally Committed]

27. Don't go there.

Just don't.

[blm]

32. No problem - I know noone can address it honestly - so they don't -

they just don't.

[Totally Committed]

33. So, which has exposed more "corruption"? Of whom are you speaking?

Here are two excerpts from Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.'s brilliant "Fascist America". One applies to Kerry and the other applies to Clinton:

First Kerry -

Early in the campaign, Kennedy endorsed Senator John Kerry for President, but last month he expressed disappointment in Kerry's campaign and in the Democratic Party.

"The Republicans are 95 percent corrupt and the Democrats are 75 percent corrupt," Kennedy. "They are accepting money from the same corporations. And of course, that is going to corrupt you."

Now Clinton -

"The biggest threat to American democracy is corporate power," Kennedy told us. "There is vogue in the White House to talk about the threat of big government. But since the beginning of our national history, our most visionary political leaders have warned the American public against the domination of government by corporate power. That warning is missing in the national debate right now. Because so much corporate money is going into politics, the Democratic Party itself has dropped the ball. They just quash discussion about the corrosive impact of excessive corporate power on American democracy."

http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0122-10.htm

No one in politics today with the length of service and connections of Kerry, and the experience and connections of Clinton is without corruption. No matter which one you are speaking of, their own hands are unclean. Face it. And, if they have uncovered or exposed so much "corruption", maybe it's because, in their positions, they know where to find it.

*********

As a personal aside: I am not the only anti-Kerry poster on this board. As a matter of fact, I am in no way even close to the most prolific one. Most of the time, I manage to avoid commenting. The hardest days are when the board is full of Kerry-centric postings. It's hard to avoid. I promise to try harder.

That having been said, in the past few days, I have been singled out on a few occasions as if my sporadically expressed opinions about Kerry are the most heinous on this board, and the most ineffectual of statements was an heretical attempt to keep the man from sainthood.

Here's the deal, and then I'm done: You say whatever you want about him. Rarely, if ever (I think never, but...), do I ever challenge any pro-Kerry poster personally. And, I have never implied, even lightly, that you have no right to say what you feel about him. So, I am assuming that I have those same rights as well. Bottom line, I'll say whatever I want, about Kerry or anyone, as long as we have that right here in this country, so get off my case. Turn your attention to someone you might actually be able to influence. I don't care if he sprouts wings and a halo tomorrow, he never gets my vote again. For anything. So, move on.

Thank you.

[blm]

34. You do anyway. And I counter as I see fit because TRUTH MATTERS and always

will to me. And antiKerry posters are oblivious to the TRUTH about Kerry's 35 years of public service and NEED countering. Their ignorance about IranContra and BCCI and the roots of terrorism is dangerous in my eyes, and just as damaging as the Republican lie machine. Ignorance can have the same effect as outright lies.

And I think Kennedy was speaking overthetop when he made his statement to make a point. He grabbed Kerry's name as the last candidate and was probably discouraged by some of those who attached themselves to the campaign towards the end and wielded campaign cash to get there. That happens in every campaign, and that doesn't make the lawmaker dirty.

Noone has ever pointed to a quid pro quo from Kerry, and in fact, Kerry had never even accepted corporate pac money in any of his senate races.

Abd, BTW, proKerry posts are no more prevalent than any other. And it would be an incredibly poor read of the historic record to pretend he doesn't deserve a devoted following. Some of the most history savvy BFEE chasers who post at DU are his among his ardent supporters.

[Totally Committed]

38. I live in Mass., and know all about his 35 years of public service.

I supported him through 30+ years of them. I speak with neither ignorance nor untruth, from where I'm standing.

Just by virtue of the fact that both of these canidates are DLC, makes them anti-little guy. I'm done with that. Power to the people!

So, counter away, challenge the opinions if you wish, but do not continue to challenge my right to have them. I came by those opinions the hard way. As I said, I'll try harder to avoid threads that get on my last good nerve, but I will not have my personal integrity questioned repeatedly. I don't do it to others on this board, and I expect the same respect in return.

[AntiCoup2K4]

44. "Especially if you're protecting Republican interests."

Like Skull & Bones, you mean?

Kinda funny how with all this corruption Kerry allegedly "exposed" in the 80's that there have been TWO members of the Bush Criminal Empire in the White House since then.

Kinda funny that is.... until you remember that the guy doing the alleged "exposing" was bound by a lifetime oath to always defend his fellow Bonesmen above all else.

[trogdor]

10. Definitely OTHER.

However, given the choice between just those two, I'd have to say Hillary. For one thing, she won't take so much as one molecule of shit from the VRWC, and that counts for plenty. I'd watch her shred the GOP nominee in a debate on pay-per-view.

JK, on the other hand, let the Swift Boat Liars run all over him, and we get to put up with four more years of that moron GWB as a result. Vacation during a presidential campaign? You gotta be kidding! This isn't like a football game where you get to call time out. Win first, then take a break.

I'd definitely want someone with coat-tails, though. You can't accomplish squat without the cooperation of Congress.

[Mass]

11. Between the two, no questions - Kerry of course.

[wtbymark]

12. neither

Kerry is washed up for another pres. run
Hillary is a DLC queen - junkbond

[bowens43]

13. Other,

No Dem who participated in the 2004 debacle should be considered. And the thought of Hillary as POTUS is frightening.

[mmonk]

14. No contest

Kerry

[Darranar]

15. Kerry, by a very slim margin. I strongly dislike both options. n/t

[rhett o rick]

16. Very Important Question

If this happens, then once again the Democratic Party leaders have failed us. Both of these candidates voted for the Iraq War because they lacked the guts to stand up for what is right. Hillary has been the front runner for the Demo Party for years now. Lots of work has been going on to promote her. Why? Certainly not because the grass roots Demo's want it. Big Money is behind her. Big Money wants to cover all bases. If the moderate Repub's ever give up the corrupt Right Wing, Big Money wants to own the resulting winner. And that is Hillary. And Kerry let us down big time in 2004, resulting in four more years of *. We need a candidate that will support the grass roots, moderate middle class and not Big Money. To do this we will have to stop supporting the candidates fed to us by the Demo Party leaders, which are backed by Big Money. The War isn't Blue vs. Red, isn't Demo's vs. Repub's, isn't Christians vs. non-Christians, the War for power (and freedom) is Big Money vs. the tax paying, hard working, moderate middle class.

[Mr_Spock]

17. You guys are a riot.

I bet $1,000,000 that all of her "positioning" will be forgotten by then and Kerry's "lame Presidential run" will have been firmly planted in your head. It's a bet I won't lose - guaranteed. Even if some here are still bitter - the general public isn't so rigid...

[JaneQPublic]

18. If the 2008 primary schedule is the same as 2004's...

my preference won't matter, because by the time it's my state's turn to vote, the Dem candidate will already be decided.

[trogdor]

37. I hears ya.

That's why I will never contribute one more dime to anyone's primary campaign. Not even Howard Dean. It's money thrown down the shitter. The Iowa Caucuses choose our nominee, and until that changes, I'm sitting on my cash until I know who the nominee is.

[Pithy Cherub]

19. Never voted Green Party before....

:shrug:

[ginnyinWI]

25. Remember Condi's confirmation vote?

Kerry was one of just 13 Senators who voted Nay; Hillary voted Yea. 'Nuff said.

[paineinthearse]

26. How do I vote for "none of the above"? nt

[MadHound]

28. Well then, Green it is n/t

I'm not going to vote for another pro-war, corporate whoring so called Dem ever again. If the party wants my vote, and the support of the left, then they're going to have to deal. And the prime cut on the table is to get us the hell out of Iraq and bring peace to the ME.

[rman]

29. bipolar? the two don't seem to be very opposed to one another

-

[AndreaCG]

35. Kerry stole my money

For post electon recount fight. He rolled over. Where did the millions of dollars go? To the 2008 campaign coffers?

[blm]

36. Try, they are still embroiled in recount issues being stalled in Ohio, and

Kerry has also given much of it to the DNC, the DCCC, and the Washington recount for Gregoire, and various races around the country, including Hackett in Ohio.

But, if those choices don't suit you, then you should ask for your donation back - I'm sure his office would accomodate your wishes.

[Baltimore]

39. Kerry-bashing

Thank you, blm, for being supportive of Kerry. I don't understand the poster who claims there are too many pro-Kerry people in the forum. I'm sick to death of the Kerry-bashing and (in 2000) Gore-bashing. What must outsiders think of us? Do they think we ever had any confidence in our leaders at all?

[blm]

40. The Republicans put their reps up on pedestals so guys like Dole and his

opinions are still always sought by media.

Dems, many of who haven't a clue to their own nominees' actual records of governance, find mocking those who have effected this nation thousands of times more positively than they ever will, as some form of self-glorifying pleasure for them.

I just call it ignorance. And am sad to do so. They have no clue what the longterm damage means to democracy.

[Spock_is_Skeptical]

41. Other Other Other Other Other ...... Other.

[SoCalifer]

42. Why I would rather not vote for Kerry?

Skull & Bones

[AntiCoup2K4]

43. Oh Canada.....