Which of our greatest leaders do you think would make the best President.

[genius]

Poll question: Which of our greatest leaders do you think would make the best President.

There are only ten people in Congress with perfect voting records this year.

Which do you think would make the best President?

[wakfs]

1. Question

What's a perfect voting record?

[SteppingRazor]

2. Yeah, perfect voting record accroding to whom?

[LittleClarkie]

20. The Patrick Henry Think Tank and the chart they've put together

of votes THEY think are important. This is the group of Representatives that the Patrick Henry finds perfect BY THEIR STANDARDS.

Go here:
www.vote-smart.org

Most of everyone's votes are there, plus scores from various interest groups. Then one can make up ONE'S OWN MIND as to what "perfect" is and who attains it.

[Constitution]

54. So, are you opposed to human rights? I'm glad someone is keeping track.

The people at Patrick Henry have done a wonderful service for the rest of us. They have my gratitude for their hard work in making what is the best chart on the web.

[Constitution]

53. They have a perfect human rights voting record. Check out the chart

Remember all those action alerts that dem underground and other groups put out. If you check the chart these leaders listen and vote appropriately.

There is a chart at patrickhenrythinktank.org that I recommend to everyone.

[IChing]

3. Steve Jobs, Spielberg, Lucas

Why is it only politicians are considered our "greatest leader"

not that my list is great, but sometimes I think we need to look outside of the box.

[tinrobot]

4. Boxer

She may not be perfect, but she's a fighter.

[LSparkle]

7. Put Boxer and Kucinich together and you've got a great ticket

imho ...

[meppie-meppie not]

9. BINGO!! :-) n/t

[genius]

10. That would be a good ticket.

Kucinich always does the right thing and Boxer does the right thing more than anyone else in the Senate.

[DuaneBidoux]

95. If doing the right thing won elections there wouldn't have been a

Republican President for the last 100 years.

[sellitman]

12. That would be an AMAZING ticket!

Sign me up!

[iwantmycountryback]

86. Not one that would actually stand a chance in hell of winning

But a good ticket nonetheless

[genius]

8. She's ahead in the Senate but she still caves in a lot and disregards

her constituents, such as on Negroponte and the Real Death Camp Act where she went against over 90% of her constituents. Why?

[meppie-meppie not]

14. we'll never get perfect in our candidates but I still thinks it's a

good ticket.

[Zhade]

101. That's MY question, too!

Yes, No, Yes on Negroponte. WTF?

[Catfight]

79. I agree..Boxer! no more powerful families like clinton or bush's

[saracat]

5. Kerry. He has a perfect record.

And is still the most Presidential of the lot!

[genius]

6. That's a joke, right. He votes slightly more for us than for Bush

Anyone who votes almost half the time for Bush's agenda is not OK with me.

[meppie-meppie not]

11. ya, that's exactly the stuff I can't swallow. n/t

[LittleClarkie]

16. His voting record this Congress has been exemplary

I have no idea what you're talking about when you say he votes with Bush half the time. He clearly hasn't. He has a fantastic rating with the pro-choice people, for instance. And he voted against Gonzalez and Rice, for another instance.

[Pushed To The Left]

68. Well, I like Kerry AND Kucinich! n/t

[saracat]

18. Right. You haven't even "looked" at his record. He has voted correctly

all session. He voted against the Bankruptsy Bill and drilling in the Arctic .He opposed Negroponte and voted against Condi. He has spent his own money opposing Bolton. What the heck are you talking about? The ancient history of IWAR? Some of us understand that vote while not liking it.Prove he votes half the time with the Bush agenda! Is that how Kerry is rated the "most liberal member of the Senate by the progressive groups?

[genius]

22. Sorry. The votes speak for themselves.

After being AWOL on January 6, 2005, he agreed to cloture on Gonzales, voted for Whitewater Witchhunter and torture-proponent Chertoff, voted for John "Death Squad" Negroponte, voted twice for appropriations to keep the unwanted occupation going, and voted for the Real Death Camp Act. Sorry, I don't want anyone for President who wants American kids turned into lampshades.

[LittleClarkie]

31. One of those appropriation bills

had two of his amendments in them. Of course he voted for them. Now spouses don't have to move out of their housing for a year, and they get better death benefits, all of which helps the spouse of a dead serviceman survive.

He should have voted against his own amendments?

[rhett o rick]

23. Isn't this a silly discussion. No disrespect intended. Kerry isn't going

to be our candidate. So let's move on.

[saracat]

29. Wanna bet?

[LittleClarkie]

32. ...because you know, NOBODY loves Kerry and will work for him

in fact, we have an entire group of nobodies just dying to not work for John Kerry come 2007. A very active group and motivated group of nobodies, I might add.

[saracat]

34. We have the biggest and most active group of nobodies on DU

and all the Kerry groups and meetups in MY state are still going strong. But he must be right, no one likes Kerry!

[NoPasaran]

80. Kerry at least has a realistic shot in 2008

He is remaining active and speaking out on a number of issues. The collection of "perfect" leftwingers in this silly poll have about as much chance as Peter Camejo.

[wisteria]

50. Now how could you possibly know what will be in 2008,

when its only 2005. I happen to think Kerry should give it another go. One way or another at some point I would like to see and hear the words, President Kerry.

[rhett o rick]

77. I like John Kerry too, but I want a winner in 2008.

[lojasmo]

26. Piffft. You like the iraq war? Patriot act?

NOT a perfect voting record.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

105. hehehe

:popcorn:

[LittleClarkie]

13. Meaning no offense, but who the flying fuck are half these people?

I vote other. Guess who. (bats eyelashes)

[genius]

15. Take an interest in your government and find out who the best leaders are.

It is good to be knowledgeable.

[LittleClarkie]

17. They're Congresspeople, aren't they.

And they scored high on that Patrick Henry chart thingie, didn't they.

Congresspeople for the most part are only a concern to the people in their districts, and maybe one district over. I have an asshat in mine (Sennsenbrenner) and a great woman one district over (Moore)

That's about all the interest in Congress I need to take, except to give kudos to people like Rep. Conyers, who has shown himself to be a leader in Congress.

They're not going to be president if no one knows who the flying fuck they are. People had trouble remembering Dennis' name during the primaries. Braun was lucky if they remembered her at all.

[Michael_Bush]

37. And how many Senators make it to be President

Governors are a MUCH better bet.

[LittleClarkie]

39. Bit of a non sequitor, that

I'm reacting to genius' list. Genius isn't rating Governors. But even that proves my point somewhat. At least Governors have a higher profile than Congresspeople.

I still would like a particular Senator to be president. I don't care how often it normally happens.

[saracat]

19. I would suggest you do the same.

[genius]

24. The best are those who support us all the time - not when Bush says its OK

to support the people. We've had too many sellouts. If we don't support those who support us, then we might as well re-register as Republicans.

[saracat]

28. You have not read Kerry's voting record. He supports us all the time.

I agree we have sellouts. Lieberman and Landrieu come to mind. Kerry is not one. Do some research.

[genius]

30. I've seen the votes and anyone else who has knows that he doesn't

The best place to look at his voting record is http://patrickhenrythinktank.org/house-scores.html

I will admit that he is better than most Senators. But no Senator is a fraction as good as even the so-so members of Congress.

[saracat]

33. These people can't be elected dogcatcher. Sorry but it is the truth.

Some have very high ideals and I respect them, but no one votes for them. Kucinich is a prime example. He has a terrible speaking style reminicent of a barking dog and isnot impressive physically. I love what he stands for but he simply isn't either likable or impressive. I loved "prayer for America" and when I met him I was disappointed in the author! I had hoped he would be more impressive. Most of these people just don't have the stature to lead.That is it in a nutshell.

[genius]

35. That's what Bush wants us to think. One of them came in 2nd at Dem Conven

The truth is that these are the only Democrats who could beat Bush. I don't know any liberal Demorats who will trust someone lacking their integrity with their vote next time. We asked everyone to trust Kerry and they did. But most people have a "fool me once..." attitude and no Democratic candidate will come close to 50 % in the next Presidential election. The Democrats don't have 50% of the voters and people on the outside are talking of alliances to back a credible, honest candidate. The only shot our Party has to win is to back a credible, honest candidate like those on the list.

[mr715]

45. With all due respect

That is the biggest fallacy in the world.

He came in second because his followers at the DNC are like cult members. "I want to cast my vote for the Great Man, the Visionary, the Leader Dennis Kucinich"

He DID NOT WIN A PRIMARY. HE DID NOT WIN A CAUCUS. HE DID NOT COME *CLOSE* in ANY of them.

He did not come in second in the DNC. He received the token votes that Lyndon LaRouche would have gotten.

He would have come in *7th* had his supporters followed his instruction and thrown their support to John Kerry.

You know full well the truth and it is insulting that you think we are stupid enough to believe that red herring.

The Republicans are PRAYING we will be dumb enough to annoint Kucinich. He represents everything that the GOP says about the democrats - shall we list?

- political opportunism; willing to negotiate core values once an election comes around (Kucinich on abortion, on defense of marriage, on gay rights, on censorship, and on privacy rights)

- fake intellectualism; on Air America Kucinich said "The discourse of the country requires a paradigmatic change which can only be accomplished by an epistemological understanding" - That means NOTHING. It is a poor speaker pretending to be erudite.

- pacifism; Kucinich is unwilling to recognize that there are just wars and will gut the military because he has moral objections to America being the sole superpower (thats electable right there)

- new age hippie mysticism; "starlight magic" need I say more?

- hes a VEGAN! Vegans dont get elected! They eat soysauge!


So he came in second, but I came in third. Maybe I should run for his seat. God knows I'm better looking than that troll.

and his speech at the DNC reminded me of Josef Goebbels. He is a horrible speaker and, bar none, the worst debater at all the democratic debates.

M

[Padme Amidala]

52. Dennis regularly wins 75% of the vote in a district that's half Republican

Though you consider good people who do good things to be cultists, I consider them to be the most patriotic heroes on Earth. They inspire other good people to do great things. If I accomplish a lot in my lifetime, it is, in part, because the people listed in this poll (and particularly Dennis) have inspired greatness in all who care about the future of America.

[mr715]

71. No I consider people unwilling

to make compromises and those whose followers are intellectually incapable of understanding why other people are virtuous cultists.

Take, for instance, that travesty of intellect, PatrickHenry Thinktank. It exists for the sole purpose of endorsing Kucinich as the perfect candidate.

It doesnt matter HOW he votes. But the WAY he votes is the right way upon which the standard is applied to all other candidates.

And they are not heroes. They are politicians. They do their job. Kucinich is an opportunist. He won support from Republicans for BEING PRO LIFE. He changed his mind, conveinantly, when it became a problem for running for president.

What a man! What a wonderful man!

[genius]

90. The votes don't lie. This must be hard on those trying to spin lies.

As for the nonsense about Patrick Henry, it is amazing that someone would attack an organization consisting of candidates, attorneys, PHDs, educators, engineers, etc, as existing for the sole purpose of glorifying someone who just happens to regularly do the right thing. Integrity should be honored and the PHDC goes out of its way to find people who have exercised integrity and to honor them. In case you haven't noticed, there are ten people who have perfect voting records and Dennis just happens to be one of the ten.

There are some absolutes in this universe. When Kerry voted to legalize death camps in the United States, he admittedly voted for a bad bill. No one held a gun to his head. He chose to follow the route of the Germans who supported Hitler as did 99 other members of the U.S. Senate. One by one they stood up and discussed how future generations would look at the bill and spoke of how horrible it was and then they voted for it. 57 people in the House of Representatives said "no" to death camps. Now, are you saying that whether death camps are good or bad is a point of view? I guess that when people back a compromise candidate, they compromise all their values to the point where they don't know the difference between right and wrong.

[mr715]

92. Where exactly are these death camps?

Are they where Kucinich is storing his pot?

You see things in a very unusual and intellectual insincere way.

Kucinich voted for a for the Defense of Marriage Act. Which makes gays into inferior, second class citizens. Therefore Kucinich voted for the immediate execution of all gays in the world. Hes a murderer! A murderer! A short, ugly murderer!

[demwing]

60. "They eat soysauge!"

So do I, and I wouldn't vote for DK in a primary.

[mr715]

72. Sowwy

I was just jokin about soysauge. I think its a funny word is all.

Kucinich is an unfunny joke however.

[eridani]

63. Shouldn't "cult members" be more obedient?

He asked his delegates to vote for Kerry at the convention, and half said "No way!"

Kucinich changed once on abortion. He is for equal marriage rights, and led the Dem opposition to the PATRIOT Act. He is completely against the War on Some Drugs.

Sounds pretty sane to me. And he never makes a big deal out of being a vegan, either.

Here's a clue for you. Britain and the Soviet Union had to give up on being empires because of the expense. We will too, the only question being whether or not we will succeed in doing so before we entirely destroy our society.

[AntiCoup2K4]

67. "Kucinich is unwilling to recognize that there are just wars"

Name ONE since 1945.

[mr715]

70. Yeah

Kosovo

Afghanistan

Iraq #1

But thats irrelevant. WW2 was not only just but morally required. Would Kucinich's department of peace allow intervention in European wars? Or would they jsut sit around the crystals and tsk tsk tsk at the Jews being killed?

[eridani]

75. None of those were justified

Kosovo could have been avoided by taking the Serbian parliament plan for UN administration of Kosovo as a starting point for negotiation. Besides which, its real purpose was the destruction of state and/or worker-owned factories while leaving the foreign owned ones standing.

Afghanistan was nothing but massive slaughter of civilians to replace one gang of fundie thugs with a bunch of warlords who are just as bad. We could have just as easily sent troops in for the explicit purpose of taking out bin Laden and destroying the fortified caves.

For the first Gulf War, the Russians had gotten Saddam to agree to withdraw without the 'linkage' he demanded for Israeli withdrawal from the occupied territories. It was necessary to threaten invasion, but not to invade. Lots of those mass graves were made in America--google 'Highway of Death' + Iraq for more info. Another condition of course would have been permanent weapons inspection.

[jobycom]

21. You know, if you've narrowed "perfect" down to 10 out of 535

You need a new definition of perfect.

I don't think of any of those ten as perfect, either.

[genius]

27. They are the only ones with the courage to back us over Bush all the time

I suppose we could back the Zell Millers and Zell Miller-lites but I'd rather back the good guys.

[jobycom]

48. The only reason they oppose Bush all the time

is because they can. Their districts allow it. Problem is, they are so used to people agreeing with them that they make bad leaders. I'd go for someone with the skills to navigate difficult waters, myself. Clinton, Kerry, Gore. Someone who has achieved on a national level, rather than hiding behind the safety of their own districts. Perfectionists rarely get things done. We need to get things done. I'm sick of symbolism.

Besides, Kucininch's record on choice was less than stellar until his election year conversion. I love the guy, but perfect he is not. And fittingly, he's the best leader out of that bunch, partially because he has learned to be flexible in order to appease voters--in this case, us.

[carpetbagger]

57. Or not to vote.

A number of these 10 have "perfect records" because they didn't vote on the Schiavo bill, which had some support in the Congressional Black Caucus, due to some deeply ingrained cultural differences regarding aggressive medical intervention at the end of life.

[warrens]

25. Feingold

[LittleClarkie]

36. According to an Ohioan on DailyKos

Dennis Kucinich was pro-life and pro-DOMA when he ran for his Congressional seat. Which time, I don't know. Maybe the last time. Maybe one of the earlier times. They didn't specify. But it was the reason the Kossack gave for not, as a gay person, supporting Dennis.

[JHBowden]

38. Jan got my vote

Gotta stick with the home team....

[MissMarple]

40. Why are you so fixated on "perfect" voting records?

I'm just not getting it. That is what many of the Republicans do, they don't think for themselves, they just do what they are told.

Why one votes a certain way, one's leadership capability, how well one can work with others who may have different(gasp) views, one's grasp of current affairs and a pragmatic, ethical way of reaching desired goals may be more important criteria.

[LittleClarkie]

41. I'm also thinking

that I suspect the kind of perfection the Patrick Henry Think Tank is touting would give us the liberal equivalent of George W. Bush. An absolutist who doesn't know how to compromise in the White House isn't any more appealing coming from the left than it is coming from the right.

Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.

[Constitution]

102. So would you prefer someone who voted for death camps or for torture?

There are lots of those to go around. Every one of our Senators voted for the death camps and they all voted for torture-proponent Chertoff. I'll take someone who votes against torture and deah camps any day over someone who supports these bad policies.

[mr715]

42. Here we go again

The "perfect voting records" according to patrick henry think tank, a website for 10 year olds. That can't even keep up a running metaphor.

Kucinich is an abomination. Waters is as unelectable as they come.

Get real. Vote for someone that is capable of winning without the help of crystal waving and a soy sacrifice to Marduk Searus, God of the Babylonians

[LittleClarkie]

44. Define "an abomination" if you would

Just wondering what you're basing that on. Thanks.

(aye, but they're very informed 10 year olds, you have to admit.)

[mr715]

46. He

Herds his followers like a cult leader.

Is a terrible speaker

Is a worse debater

Changes his beliefs as soon as the election rolled around

Asserts himself as the sole liberal candidate despite a record far, far more conservative than Kerry.

Department of Peace - Department of Happiness - Department of Virtue - Department of Fuzzy Bunnies

A ridiciulous statist, authoritarian bent on his policies.

I dont need a mom in the oval office. I need a man with political savvy and concern for people over his own moral imperatives.

[WildEyedLiberal]

66. I can't help myself

"Department of Peace - Department of Happiness - Department of Virtue - Department of Fuzzy Bunnies"

This made me giggle.

:spank: Bad WEL, bad...

[Crunchy Frog]

107. Damn you WEL!

You just made me get a picture in my head of the Ministry of Silly Walks.

http://www.theage.com.au/ffxImage/urlpicture_id_1068674315482_2003/11/13/15PYTHON,0.jpg

Not meaning any disrespect to Kucinich, who I voted for in our Caucus.

[GreenArrow]

78. bunch a baloney

His "followers" tend to be more independent, progressive and open minded than the party line sheep supporting status quo candidates like Kerry or Hilary Clinton. If you want to see a cult like bunch, check out the Deaniacs on here. (Sorry Dean fans).

"He is a terrible speaker." I agree with you on this; his speeches are good, but his delivery is bad.

"is a worse debater" -- Is a very good debater. But I suppose this could depend on whether one prefers to judge style or content. Now George Bush is a BAD debater. But he defeated Al Gore, didn't he, in the debates? Why? Gore sighed and wore too much makeup.

"Asserts himself as the most liberal candidate.." Nonsense. But he does see different ways of doing things. The approach taken by both major parties right now isn't working. And won't work.

"Deaprtment of Peace, etc. etc. etc." Got something against peace? Or maybe you prefer waging unjustified, illegal, wars of conquest. While I aggre with what Kucinich wants to focus on here, I agree with you that it is an unfortunate name. It's sad that talking earnestly of "peace" tends to result in derision and condecension.

"A ridiculous statist..." As opposed to all the distinguished and sober statists that fill the ranks of power and visit the Sunday morning talk shows?

"I don't need a mom..." Me niether. I don't need a "leader". I want someone who does the job they are paid to do, honestly, without condecension, and without insulting my intelligence.

Is Dennis perfect? No. He is very flawed. Politics is not simply, as it is often claimed, "the art of the possible"; it's the art of gaining, holding and wielding power. One of the main problems with the vast majority of the "electable" candidates for the oval office (and DK Isn't one of them) is that they have little or no moral imperative other than gaining personal power. Where the Democrats are concerned, having lost three elections in a row would certainly indicate a lack of political saavy. Voting in support of "ridiculous statist" garbage like the Patriot Act, the Bankruptcy bill, and the transparently dishonest War on Iraq would seem to indicate little concern for ordinary people either.

[NoPasaran]

81. As a "Deaniac"

You can shove your Department of Kumbayah up your ass, pal!

[GreenArrow]

84. why do you hate Kumbayah

so much?

[WhoWantsToBeOccupied]

43. Conyers

[berni_mccoy]

47. CONYERS!!!!!!!

[wisteria]

49. Hey! Were is John Kerry's name?

He may not be a congressman,but he is a great leader and he deserves to run again.

[Padme Amidala]

51. I voted for DK here. No one will trust a compromise candidate again.

Last time the Democrats ran a war hero who asked for our trust and then quit when we needed him most. Most of those I know are saying never again unless we run a candidate with integrity, someone like Dennis.

[politicasista]

59. Yawn

:boring:

[mr715]

85. Yup

Thank you Genius, for a new identity with which to spout the same ol' hackneyed and misguided ideological purity

[applegrove]

55. Why is it that these people are not more well known? I would worry

about our big tent. No point in splicing the Democratic party in bits just when the repukes are falling apart.

[demwing]

58. Its so DK can have the highest name recognition

genius is DK's biggest fan. And when I say that, I mean in in that creepy Kathy Bates with a sledgehammer sort of way.

[applegrove]

61. The little engine that could! n/t

[genius]

62. So you are saying that I made these 10 vote perfectly all year.

just so that Dennis could be on a chart with unknowns like Maxine Waters (the most popular popular member of Congress from Southern California) or Barbara Lee (another unknown) or Cynthia McKinney (whom no one here has heard of) or Lynn Woolsey (whose amendment no one was watching this week). I am so impressed that you think I have that much power. They were selected for this poll because they have voted perfectly all year according the human rights easy voting chart. No one else in Congress can boast the kind of voting record these people have.

Maybe if you did your homework and knew who was voting which way, these people wouldn't be so unknown to you.

[mr715]

73. Challenge

I challenge you, Genius, to have one post that does not concern either

(a) why Dennis Kucinich rocks

or why

(b) hard working, respectable Democrats that have a shot at being president suck

[demwing]

82. Nope. Im saying you're DK's biggest fan...

In a creepy Kathy Bates with a sledgehammer sort of way.

You're obsessed.

Judging from your posts, DK is your personal Jesus, and everyone else is on crack.

You seem to live in an isolation chamber where the only person worth listening to is yourself, because you ignore evidence that contradicts your worldview, and you insult good people who don't fall into your narrow definition of acceptibility.

Here's a bit of truth. Dennis Kucinich will NEVER get elected as president of the United States. Why? Because people are a bit shallow. DK doesn't look like a president, and he doesn't reflct the culture in which we live.

People elect those who reflect. Remember that.

DK's followers want the US to reflect their view of life. You know that if we did, the US would be a better place. I know that as well.

But "Be Like Me" will NEVER win an election, unless the candidate has huge levels of personal charisma. DK does not. Why? Because "Be Like Me" implies that the candidate knows better than the voter, and the voter just ain't good enough. What a horrible notion!

"I'm Like You" implies that the candidate understands the issues, needs, and challenges that the average guy faces.

Consider the last several presidents, as far back as you remember. Has ANY of them used the "Be Like Me" mentality? You know the answer, and I know the answer as well.

Now relax, genius. Take a deep breath and relax.

[carpetbagger]

56. I don't see any who could get elected.

You have to get elected first. It's not a meritocracy.

I'm not saying that these ten can't get elected because of their liberal stands. Being on the far edges of the political spectrum is difficult, but not impossible to overcome in electoral politics. But if you're going to succeed, you need uncommon abilities at crafting your message (think Reagan).

[genius]

64. You see 10 people who are overwhelmingly re-elected again and again

Half the Republicans in DK's district vote for him so he is a guaranteed winner in a Presidential eleciton. The one thing these people all have in common (besides perfect voting records) is that they are honest. There is nothing that could ever be used to make them back down from what they feel is right. It's time those Democratic Party members who are afraid to vote for someone with integrity (thinking no one with integrity could get elected) went with their conscience and trusted the American people.

[carpetbagger]

65. Half of republicans voted for Kucinich in his district???

Kucinich won his election 60-34. Now I'm going to assume that there aren't a whole lot of democrats who voted republican, so that makes, what, a 60+ percent republican majority in Ohio-10? In Cuyahoga County?

I have some difficulty believing this. That and the only poll I saw from the last election cycle, in the fall of 2003, had Kucinich behind Bush in Ohio 61-32, running a net negative favorability of 5%, only ahead of Al Sharpton.

As to the others, McKinney lost her primary in 2002, and most of the others represent very, very safe seats. Just because you pile up huge majorities in Brooklyn, Chicago, and Los Angeles, it doesn't mean you're somehow going to pull off good performances nationally.

[genius]

89. He got 75%. The district was half Republicans.

He is absolutely amazing.

[carpetbagger]

97. No, he got 60%, and the district is pretty democratic.

In 2000, Gore got 53, nader 4, Bush 42. I don't have the breakdown for 2004. The democrats seem to have quite an edge in the state house and senate districts in Ohio-10. Remember, the GOP tries to pack democrats into small numbers of districts. That's how gerrymandering works.

An incumbent pulling max 3-5 points over the presidential reults (and given the hanky-panky in Ohio, I'll use the 2000 numbers for president; Kerry likely did a bit better, as he did better statewide), running against a political novice, is not an amazing feat.

This is a serious question: what democratic progressives have shown the ability to win elections on neutral ground? Certainly not these ten. Paul Wellstone did it in Minnesota, but he had uncommon political skills. Some of the old-timer progressives (Harkin for example) probably hold onto their seats by virtue of incumbency. Maybe Harkin could win Iowa, but if he weren't the incumbant, the margins would be slim.

[Constitution]

100. Genius is right. Dennis got 75%.

The first returns made it look like it was going to be closer to 70% but the final returns showed that it was 75%.

And the district has far too many Republicans in it.

[carpetbagger]

108. He got 60%. Here are links that show 60.03% Prove me wrong.

Ohio Secretary of State (text edited below by me to line up stuff)

http://www.sos.state.oh.us/sos/results/2004/gen/usReps.htm

DISTRICT NUMBER: 10
COUNTY: Cuyahoga (it's a single-county district)
Barbara Anne Ferris Non-Partisan 18,343 6.39%
Edward Fitzpatrick Herman Republican 96,463 33.59%
*Dennis J. Kucinich Democratic 172,406 60.03%

Here's the Cuyahoga County Board of Elections official results...


http://boe.cuyahogacounty.us/BOE/results/history/2004/110204_GE_Summary.txt

CONGRESS - 10TH DISTRICT
Vote for 1
(WITH 650 OF 650 PRECINCT COUNTED)
BARBARA ANNE FERRIS . . . . . . . 18,343 6.39
EDWARD F. HERMAN (REP) . . . . . . 96,463 33.59
DENNIS J. KUCINICH (DEM) . . . . . 172,406 60.03

[Clarkie1]

69. It is not self-evident that these are "our greatest leaders"

and their voting records "perfect."

I detest political and religious dogma wherever it arises, and in whatever form. I am not a believer of this Patrick Henry Think Tank church, and I don't take anyone's opinions as to what constitutes "a perfect voting record" as the gospel truth, not even my own.

As the Jedi say, "only the Sith believe in absolutes" (can't help the pop-culture reference, I just get back from seeing Star Wars III).

There are no perfect voting records.

[mr715]

74. Here Here!

HERE HERE!!!

Well said. Concise and beautiful.

If you represent the Clark supporters, Clark is a lucky, lucky man.



M, Voting for a Democrat, not a Messiah

[GreenArrow]

76. "no perfect voting records"

It's often said, the perfect is the enemy of the good.

It should also be said, the medicore is the enemy of the good.

I don't need someone to be perfect. I really don't want a "leader". I just want someone who will do an honest job. And right now, we don't have that. We have esteemed mediocrities, men and women largely bereft of vision and honesty, who largely serve the status quo, and their own ambitions.

[Jai4WKC08]

99. We most certainly do need a leader, imo

Desperately.

But then, a large part of how I define a real leader is someone with "vision and honesty," (I'd say "integrity" but close enough) who puts the welfare of the led above his or her "own ambitions."

By those criteria, most of those in the OP list qualify.

But the other part of real leadership is having the ability to implement the changes necessary to put one's vision into effect. And that's where most on the list come up short, at least at the national level.

Don't get me wrong. They all for the most part inspire some sort of constituency to work toward positive change at various levels. So in that sense, they are indeed leaders, and in that sense we need them too. And many more.

But not a one of them, or even the entire group of ten, stands a chance of making enough change to turn this country around. Not in time.

The Bush machine has managed to manufacture the perception of leadership. That's why he gets so many votes (I won't dispute that he probably didn't get as many votes as got counted, but he did get a lot). But this nation can't stand much more of Bush "leadership" or whatever clone the Repubs put up next. And God only knows what the world will have to endure for it.

We need the real thing, and soon, or there won't be much left to lead.

(edit for spelling)

[frictionlessO]

83. Its about balance people!! I see a lot of posters arguing over candidates

but not context.

I'll put it short and clean.

If you want a true Liberal on the ticket then you damn well better make sure that their counterpart is a die hard Moderate.

Anything lefter than that will without doubt scare off most of the Moderate Right (like Sunnis in Iraq they'll be thinking we're thinking retribution just like they were when they were on the opposite side of the coin).

That is assuming that there will major backlashing coming down on GOP due to neoconning failures in the previous admins. If approval doesn't get down into the 30s it will most likely have to be a Mod/Mod ticket on our side, the good news is that assuming the numbers don't get worse but don't improve the righties will have to throw up a Mod/Mod ticket as well.

At least thats the way Im reading it right now.

[Liberty Belle]

87. Barbara Boxer, best of all.

[genius]

88. Dennis is my favorite but I'm glad that Cynthia is getting so many votes.

[demwing]

93. DK is your favorite? Wow, we didn't know...

how interesting.

[Corey_Baker08]

91. Kerry.............

[googly]

94. None of the above.....it will be Hillary Clinton without a doubt!

[DuaneBidoux]

96. I don't believe a one of them could win the WH

Edwards could have beaten Bush. Edwards was far from the most qualified candidate, but he had the same kind of charisma that got Clinton elected and he knows how to communicate to people.

[Constitution]

104. So why is Bush still in the White House when we selected Mr. "electable"

Kerry and Edwards are not in the Presidency or the Vice Presidency. I'd rather vote for someone like DK who could win and take office.

[DuaneBidoux]

106. Sorry, I never thought K/E were electable (although I thought E was)

And I think Dean or D/K are even less so. "Department of Peace" he said create? Oh yea, the American public will just eat that up alive.

We need to be looking for a governor right now. Senators don't get elected.

[MaggieSwanson]

98. Dennis Kucinich

...the tallest man in any room.

[Constitution]

103. Interesting. Only 32 people did NOT vote for Bush in Congress

And there are people here who want to back a Bush supporter for the Democratic nomination. If a Bush supporter is nominated, it better not be from our party or I will search out a Democrat elsewhere to vote for. With such wishy-washiness in places like here, no wonder our leaders voted for death camps, torture and Enron. They knew we didn't care.