What the heck is Zogby trying to say here...

[Roland99]

I just completed that new consumer survey from Zogby (got a link via email) and after completing it is a link to a PDF of

Investors for Bush
How Social Security reform can bring about a Republican realignment.
http://www.zogby.com/April-ZRA.pdf

In there we see this:

Investors Noninvestors
Bush Kerry Bush Kerry
All voters 61% 39% 42% 57%
Union members 57% 42% 36% 63%
18-29 years old 52% 47% 30% 67%
Women 55% 45% 37% 63%
Hispanics 60% 37% 43% 56%
$50-75K income 64% 36% 45% 55%
Single 45% 53% 25% 73%

On the surface this hardly seems worthy of attention. Of course, well-heeled investors will tend to be more conservative than underachieving non-investors. But a closer look at the profile of this new "investor class" suggests some tectonic shifts in how Americans see themselves and how they behave politically. These are remarkable voting differences. The numbers are no less dramatic when we see their views of the president and the major issues in the campaign.

While I'm not part of the "investor class", I hardly consider myself an underachiever.

WTF is this crap?

[Carolab]

1. I don't know.

Maybe he meant to cite two polar opposites--you know, well-healed investors (rich people with lots of money to invest) and underachieving non-investors (people who haven't achieved success and have no money to invest). He seems to be arguing that "most" voters fall somewhere in between.

[Roland99]

2. But why are those who don't invest considered underachievers?

Is the sign of success in this country now whether or not one invests in the stock market?

[Carolab]

3. Again, I think he was talking about opposites.

Let's face it, people who don't have success (in a monetary sense) don't have funds to achieve it via "investments". Ergo, they are (relatively speaking) underachievers. But, I agree, it was a poor choice of words, in that it implies "performing lower than expected".

Lots of people in this country would perform up to their potential if given the chance but can't because they are handicapped by the system.

[Clark2008]

5. What do you mean "now?"

The country has always been about capitalism (though, not as much so as now) and investing in the stock market has long meant you've "made it."

[bklyncowgirl]

4. Investors and "Wannabe" investors

What Zogby is getting at is that people often don't see thier actual place in life very clearly.

I have some investments--mostly retirement accounts but do not consider myself part of the investor class. I'm a populist progressive, Democrat by convenience.

My brother-in-law considers himself a go-getter entrepeneur type. He's forevery talking about this or that investment--but the bulk of his income comes from his day job. He's certainly not wealthy and alot of his great deals have tanked rather badly. He's a staunch Gingrich Republican.

Bush is speaking to the "Wannabes", the people who hate their lousy jobs and dream that some day they too will make it big and for whom the fantasy that they will strike it rich is more relevant than the reality that voting for the interests of the real investor class is hurting them.

Democrats need to find a way to speak to these people.

[imenja]

6. I gave up on zogby

when he started polling about favorite kinds of chocolate and whether I wanted flowers in Valentine's day. Given the fact that he is paid to do market research, I guess I'm not surprised he says non-investors are "underachieving.'

[Carolab]

15. I gave up on him after his "blue ribbon panel" on fraud never happened

What a joke

[sendero]

7. Americans...

... are becoming rapidly more delusional.

From the report:

"Self-identified investors comprised 46% of the total vote in 2004"

Oh really? I have money invested, that doesn't make me an "investor" any more than the fact that I record a song now and then makes me a "musician".

Sometimes I think that millions of Americans have sunk into some kind of make-believe world to insulate themselves from the hard realities of life and the future of our country.

I wrote a 3 line poem this morning. Now I'm a poet.

Also might I add that after skimming the text of that report, I'm pretty much disinterested in anything Zogby has to say. The conclusions he reaches are merely some of a possible universe of conclusions that would be just as justified.

[bklyncowgirl]

10. Fantasy sells.

If I write a book on how to lose weight, which has a better chance of hitting the best seller lists?

1. A well-researched explanation of how eating less and excercising more will slowly turn your weight around and make for a healthier lifestyle

2. A slickly produced production which urges that people can eat all the fatty, sugary foods they want as long as they do "fill in the blanks" and will lose weight rapidly without self-denial, effort or excercise.


Anyone the least bit familiar with popular fad diets knows that #2 will hit the lists every time while anything that smacks of telling people they can't have it all will languish on the remainders rack.

People believe their fantasies and for them their fantasies are more real than the world around them. They vote against their current interests because they see this as only a temporary stopping place on their road to financial independence.

[sendero]

11. Yes...

... I guess there is an element of semantics to my argument.

I suppose that if you have $1000 in a mutual fund 401K you are an "investor". But my definition would be more like "I make the majority of my income from investments, I am an investor".

After all, I lift weights but I'm not a bodybuilder. And to call yourself a bodybuilder you'd probably have to spend 20+ hours a week training.

I'm going to "run" to the 7-11. I'm an athlete ya know :)

The worse the reality for the average American gets, the more they seem to turn to fantasy and delusion to find peace of mind. IMHO, that is no better than turning to drugs or alcohol.

[bklyncowgirl]

12. Republicans appeal to the fantasy

Progressives have to tread carefully here.

Telling people to "snap out of it Jack, you're a working stiff and you're always going to be a working stiff." is pretty close to calling them a loser and that's no way to make friends.

This is where the Republicans can chime in with that "we're the party of ideas and optomism." crap.

The progressive package has to be appealingly wrapped, relentlessly argued and offer a compelling vision of hope.

Now if we could all agree on what that vision is, we could start selling it.

[sendero]

13. Well...

... I agree with you there. Reality is not as salable as a fantasy that, in the best of worlds, only a small fraction of folks could ever attain.

Personally, I think there are going to be some very disillusioned people reaching their 30s. Our culture has promised them extreme athletics, high-flying day trading, and that every entrepreneur becomes rich - the reality is about as opposite as you could get.

At some point in the future, and not too distant future at that, people are going to be ready to appreciate just having a reasonably good paying and secure job. Something that progressives are a lot more likely to provide than the Republicans.

But you are right, America is not ready for that message yet :)

[GOPBasher]

8. Well, he may have misspoken, but don't

go nuts over this. I mean, we know that Krugman is always standing up for the working class and middle class.

[mmonk]

9. I consider the investor class

a new phenom that is mostly made up of new young investors that don't have a clue on economics. Alot of the old time investors are not so enamoured by bush policy.

[cestpaspossible]

14. So many people buy into the myth

that they will someday be rich, that they start believing they already are rich.

On the flip side, how many people who are 'poor' according to the demographers actually think of themselves as poor?