Christian lawyers say (bankruptcy) bill, Bible don't mesh

[rainbow4321]

http://desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050304/BUSINESS04/503040376/1029/BUSINESS

A national group of Christian lawyers is appealing to church leaders to join them in lobbying against the bankruptcy reform bill introduced by Sen. Chuck Grassley, R-Ia.

The lawyers say the legislation runs contrary to the forgiveness of debt and charity required by the Bible.

"As Christian attorneys, we strongly believe that it was never God's intention to create a society where indebtedness was a crime or a badge of dishonor," Christian members of the National Association of Consumer Bankruptcy Attorneys wrote in a letter sent Feb. 26 to hundreds of church leaders across the nation

"I can't listen to Christian lawyers because I would be imposing the Bible on a diverse population," Grassley said. "I'll bet those lawyers wouldn't want us to impose the principles of forgiving debt every seven years. If that were the law, nobody would loan them money."

[Malva Zebrina]

1. for every tract quoted from the Bible, believe me, there is another that

will be found to contradict it.

I would like to see some liberal Christians with some clout, butt up against what is happening right now within Christianity that is on a virtual path toward theocracy and totalitarianism.

They seem to have as much power as this atheist right now except that I am not elegible for faith based charity grants, of which some 3.7 billion dollars has already been granted via executive order, by Bush.

Has that bribery, that carrot on a stick, permeated so far into the churches that there are few left who are not on the dole,that would bring the flock back into loving humility and respect for the entire human race, I wonder.

[AWJackRWN]

2. www.teensn2politics.com

Why does it seem like everytime something gets passed nowadays it's hurting average Americans and people that need help?

[MissMarple]

8. Welcome to DU, AWJackRWN!

Good question. Clueless, misguided, callous, greedy, "other agenda".

Those are a few possibilities. :shrug:

[DARE to HOPE]

3. That money has not gone to traditional Christian charities,

but to the "Bush churches" like the one where the shooting took place in Wisconsin last week. That money has the effect of growing the Bush heresies more loud and powerful.

Thank God for true Christian voices speaking out, despite the fact that today's news reports that only 21% of Americans are even involved religiously anymore.

[Malva Zebrina]

7. I have not been able to determine where or to whom the 3.7 bil has been

distributed at the whim of this president using executive orders. And actually I do not know what "traditional " charities consist of. What does that mean--traditional? Catholic Charities has been the benefactor of tax payer money for a very long time, but has generaally adhered to the rules and is required to be accountable for that money . Is that the criteria for distributing this huge amount of money without the consent of congress? That it be "traditional"? Does that mean it has to be Christian?

and, why is not there more resistance on the part of the "real" Christians? I have been trying to figure that out. That they may expect to receive welfare money from Bush is not an unreasonable suspicion. Most of the large cathedrals that were built years ago, cannot continue the upkeep because of the diminishment of the flock and because of their hugh, now unsustainable size. They are closing down it seems or struggling to stay extant. The flock, from what I have read, has turned more toward the crystal cathedral type of evangelist worship. It is more fun--has restaurants, gymnasiums, tee vees and membership in such a trendy church is a sign of one's admission to the cult of materialistic worship. If one want to be in, one joins the Crystal Cathedrals. Membership in one, if I remember correctly, is about 8000 of the faithful.

If you have knowledge of a list of where that money went, please do enlighten me and post a list of all the recepients. 3.7 billion is a lot of money. I have been searching but cannot find.

Thanks

[DARE to HOPE]

9. I did some looking in response to your question...

...and found this article, among others:

http://www.religionandsocialpolicy.org/news/article.cfm?id=2223

It seems that things were concentrated in key electoral states, like Florida and Wisconsin, and there also seems to be a lot of confusion, including an inability to actually account for the newly labeled funds.

Traditional groups like Catholic charities and Lutheran social services have been conduits for federal funds in various ways, through specific programs, for a number of years, similar to NGO work on the ground overseas. There is a clear separation between "church" and "charity work," and the government puts funds through these groups because that is where much of the charity work is being done.

What is new is that Bush seems to be using taxpayer money for political purposes, to influence voting, rather than with a particular social purpose in mind, as the money for AIDS patients under Clinton.

I am sorry if I sounded sort of like "sour grapes." I am so sick, after working "in the vineyard" for so many years at great cost, of the theft of the word "Christian." We are just worn out.

[realFedUp]

4. I think that's the argument the Bushies used to forgive Iraq debt

by other nations.

But you know, whatever works for them at the time....

[AntiCoup2K4]

5. The lawyers are correct

The Old Testament has several references to "usury" and the consistent position is that God won't tolerate it. And in the New Testament, Jesus makes his position clear on financial matters, from trashing the moneychangers in the Temple, to knowing what is "God's" from what is "Caesar's", to specifically mentioning forgiveness of debts in the Lord's Prayer which is probably the most quoted passage of Scripture on the planet (aside from possibly John 3:16)

Seems like both the Father and the Son have made their positions clear, and they ain't on the side of MBNA and Citibank.

Let's hope the churches listen. Somehow they have managed to miss the evidence that Junior is very much antichrist (though debatable whether he's "THE" antichrist)

[leesa]

6. Neither does bombing the hell out of Iraq, but none of you seem

to give a rat's ass about that! When it comes to a GOP christian's pocketbook, look out!

[liberalinAZ]

10. I am a Christian

I am a Christian and I am ashamed of a lot of my fellow Christians right now. What Jesus must be sitting up in Heaven thinking about all these people.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

11. Deuteronomy 15:1-2

At the end of every seven years thou shalt make a release.

And this is the manner of the release: Every creditor that lendeth ought unto his neighbour shall release it; he shall not exact it of his neighbour, or of his brother; because it is called the LORD'S release.

[consciousobjector]

12. Grassley doesn't know his Bible very well...

"I'll bet those lawyers wouldn't want us to impose the principles of forgiving debt every seven years. If that were the law, nobody would loan them money."

Deuteronomy 15, 9 through 11 forbid refusing to lend too

[Zuni]

13. I am glad some fellow Christians oppose the greed agenda

this bill is a savage example of the GOP's disregard for the dignity of ordinary people
They would rather have us become indentured servants to usurers than have any of these legal loansharks lose money

Christ did not look favorably on usurers, and neither do I