Who sets policy for the Democratic Party?

[Guaranteed]

Poll question: Who sets policy for the Democratic Party?

This question repeatedly comes up in Dean threads.

Who do you think sets policy for our party?

If you want to refer to the party bylaws, could you please give links and quotes, please (although I doubt it's explicitly stated therein)?

[cestpaspossible]

1. No one 'sets policy for the Democratic party'

[Guaranteed]

2. Good thinking. I'll put that one in, too. nt

[Warpy]

3. There's a tremendous grassroots movement

that Dean has started, and it's now large enough that the party as a whole has to take notice.

The time for the boys at the top to set policy is gone. They're going to have to listen to the bottom for a while or disappear onto the ash heap of history.

After they've adopted the best ideas, it once again becomes a proposition of herding cats.

[katinmn]

4. I think the DNC has been making policy, don't know

if it's in the bylaws, but that's how it looks like it's been done.

That said -- If we, the people, funnel our wants, needs and demands to Dr. Dean, we will be directly contributing to the shaping of our policies.

[tridim]

5. The Republicans..

Thank Gawd Dean won't stand for that crap.

[JNelson6563]

108. yes, it's the Thugs

who we have let call the shots for far too long.

[Radical Activist]

6. People elected to office make policy

Therefore, actual elected officials make policy for the party, not unelected party officials.

As for the direction of the party, that should be set by the people and members of the party. I'm not willing to give that power over to Howard Dean or any other single person.

[Guaranteed]

7. Do you consider Dean an elected official?

If he's not, who's the elected official that represents all American Democrats?

[Radical Activist]

8. Dean is a party official, not an elected public official

The people haven't elected Dean anything.
Why would you want one person to represent all Democrats? The idea that any one person can represent a party so diverse is absurd.

If you want a party spokesperson it should be someone with actual power to legislate that has been elected to something. Reid is the highest ranking elected Democrat.

[Guaranteed]

11. Reid only represents Nevada. That's a pretty small amount of

Democrats.

Pelosi represents San Francisco. Come on.

And, while Dean wasn't elected by the people directly, he WAS elected by 447 people, most of whom were elected by Americans all over the country. Since we can't seem to elect a freaking president, that's the closest thing we have to a nationally-elected representative.

Who else is there?

[Radical Activist]

12. The Senate has power to govern, the DNC does not

That's the basic difference. Reid was also elected leader by Senators from all over America.

[Guaranteed]

16. But we're talking about Democratic policy.

And Dean was elected by a much larger body than Reid was- the whole body of the DNC.

If we were to ask DU who they'd rather have set policy, do you think they'd say Dean or Reid? There's what the base of your constituency thinks. And we can see that in Dean's election.

[wyldwolf]

20. beside the point

The DNC chair does not set policy.

Dean will not set policy, no matter how much some here wish he would/could.

[Guaranteed]

22. If Congress didn't want him setting policy, they shouldn't have put

him in the position of leading the party.

[wyldwolf]

26. Dean is the DNC chair, and congress didn't put him there

Traditionally, the chair in charge of party funds. The chair works on election strategy. The chair has some say in the platform, but the DNC is not obligated to listen, nor are the elected officials who actually pound out the party's platform and policies.

House Minority Whip Steny Hoyer (D-MD: 'I dont believe it is the role of the party chair to set the policy of the party. That is the role of elected officials,' Hoyer told reporters yesterday.

'I think his job as party chairman to ensure that the party is organized well and to contest every congressional district in America, every county, state and city in America, and raise sufficient funds to compete effectively.'

http://www.hillnews.com/thehill/export/TheHill/News/Frontpage/020905/brief.html

New national Democratic Chairman Howard Dean promised Saturday to rebuild the party in the most conservative regions of the country, help develop state and local organizations and let congressional Democrats set the tone on policy.

"The proper place for the day-to-day battles is Congress," Dean said in response to a question about his opposition to the war in Iraq. "My views are well known, but most of the policy pronouncements will be coming from the leaders in Congress and not from me."

http://www.al.com/newsflash/election/index.ssf?/base/politics-0/1108391456294190.xml&storylist=al_election

[Guaranteed]

29. Dean has a mandate- a REAL one. He's changing the party.

If you don't want to give him the power to do that, you need to tell that to the people who overwhelmingly elected him to the position.

And most, if not all, Democratic members of Congress are members of the DNC, aren't they?

[welshTerrier2]

31. just for the record, here's Dean's opinion on this issue

here's Dean's opinion on who should be setting policy:

source: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000087&sid=a3n_kuph3sPE&refer=top_world_news

<skip>

Pelosi last week said she expected Dean to "take his cues" from her and Reid when it comes to setting the party's policy agenda. Dean said he had gotten that message.

"We're going to work very closely with Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi to do just that," Dean said. "We're looking forward to standing shoulder to shoulder in the battles ahead. We need to be united."

Dean made opposition to the war in Iraq central to his presidential bid. He didn't discuss it in his race for party chair. He told reporters today that, as chairman, he won't talk about Iraq or other issues "on which I am not casting a vote."

"The place for that to happen is in the House and the Senate," Dean said.

<skip>

[Guaranteed]

35. I think we've sent our message loud and clear to both Pelosi

and Reid. I expect that they'll be taking their cues from us. :)

And, just for the record, we're backing Dean.

They know that, though.

[welshTerrier2]

41. here's what i'd like to happen ...

i'd like Dean to call for a series of town meetings all over the country ... it's really not all that important what Dean thinks about any given issue ... what I do care about is getting every Democrat a chance to be heard on the issues we care about ...

i hope Dean pushes for an "open platform process" ... i thought his statement that Congress will determine policy missed the point ... how about letting All Democrats help craft policy ... it shouldn't just come from Dean and it shouldn't just come from elected Democrats in Congress ...

the proof is in the pudding ... it will be interesting to see just how open Dean is able to make the Party ... I must say I'm a bit skeptical but I hope he succeeds ... in the meantime, I've gotten more involved with the Party myself ...

[Guaranteed]

45. The base supports him on policy.

That's why he's there. That's really the point.

That's NOT to say that he should be calling all the shots. But we know where the man stands, and we like it. That's why the base supports him. In effect, by putting him there it's our intention to affect policy, AND strategy.

[wyldwolf]

48. that's why "the base" made him the Dem presidential nominee

[Guaranteed]

56. No, that's why they elected him to lead the Democratic Party

after that little incident with the camel's back.

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[wyldwolf]

68. the "base" elected him?

Funny. They didn't vote.

[Guaranteed]

72. What would you call the 447 members of the DNC?

That's the base if I ever saw one. It's at the very least representative of it.

[wyldwolf]

75. I would call them the 447 members of the DNC

... who are representative of the Dem party - comprised of many idealogical viewpoints.

They don't represent a consensus of Dean's views.

[Guaranteed]

77. Sure they do. You're telling me

that they don't, for the most part, believe in a woman's right to choose? That the Iraq War was a really, really bad idea? That tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans is bad economic policy? That shipping jobs overseas is bad economic policy? That every American, or at the very least our children, deserves health care?

You're saying that they don't agree with these ideas, at LEAST for the most part?

Dean makes a strong stand on these issues, and they like that. That's why they voted for him. Even when they disagree with him on a particular issue, they know that he'll fight for them hard on the rest of them.

[wyldwolf]

79. you're confusing the issue

Dems of all stripes take strong stands on the issues you presented.

Kerry, Edwards, Clinton, Biden, Kennedy...

But Dean, and other Dems, are much more than the core 4 or 5 issues you gave. They differ in many respects, as we saw in the debates

Dean makes a strong stand on these issues, and they like that. That's why they voted for him.

You have zero proof that these 5 issues was why Dean was elected.

[Guaranteed]

82. No, I'm not.

You tried to confuse it, and I set ya straight. That's all.

Of course they agree with him on the issues.

[wyldwolf]

85. yes you are

You tried to confuse it, and I set ya straight. That's all.

Of course they don't agree with him on all the issues.

[Guaranteed]

89. Why wouldn't they, at least for the most part?

Aren't they Democrats? This is all just standard stuff.

If they didn't agree with him, why did they elect him? Honestly, there were plenty of other choices with experience in fundraising. Funny that they would elect the one that they didn't agree with as far as policy is concerned.

Man, just give it up.

[welshTerrier2]

51. who speaks for "the base"

you said "the base supports him on policy. That's why he's there"

i disagree ... i supported Dean for Chair because I support him on opening up the Party ... I do not necessarily support Dean on policy ...

to be specific, and i will not argue it here, I have never liked Dean's position on Iraq ... the point is not whether or not my views are correct, the point is that I do not necessarily support Dean on policy ... i doubt you could cite any evidence that the overwhelming support he received from the state delegations was based on anything other than Dean's commitment to strengthen the Party in every state and not just channel all the Party's resources into D.C.

now, if what you mean by "policies" is infrastructure policies, like distribution of resources and providing forums for the grassroots to be heard, then we're in complete agreement ... but if you mean policies like crafting a new social security program or taking a position on Iraq, then I see no evidence that "Dean speaks for the base" ... as I recall, during the primaries, "the base" didn't make Dean their first choice ...

[Guaranteed]

55. See post #43.

He was clearly elected on policy. Other candidates also had fundraising experience. They got taken down, though- on policy issues.

In any case, the base has clearly spoken.

[welshTerrier2]

66. nope ...

he was clearly elected because many in the Party were sick and tired of the stranglehold that insiders held over Party operations ...

how many in "the base" do you really believe could articulate where Dean stands on even a single issue ???

i read your post #43 ... you mentioned Rosenberg and Roemer ... both of them were seen by the people who voted for Dean as D.C. insiders ... that was the change they supported ...

you still haven't listed even a single policy that served as the basis for "the base" supporting Dean for Chair ... it is absolutely NOT the reason I supported him ...

the bottom line here, which you just refuse to recognize, is that, according to Dean (i.e. in his own words) he is NOT going to speak out on issues that he doesn't have a vote on ... so, to take the view that "the base" got its very own guy in power and he will represent them in "setting policy" is absurd ... how will Dean "set policy" if he plans to not speak out on policy ??? Dean's statement clearly indicated he will leave policy considerations to elected Democrats ... didn't he ?? and if he does that, it's hard to see how you can state that "the base" is setting policy ...

if you want to continue this back and forth, please provide a few policies that were "set" by "the base" ... what i'm looking for here are examples that demonstrate that the elected Democrats had taken a given stand on an issue but then had to yield to "the base" who ultimately "set" the policy ... i can't come up with even one example, can you ??

[Guaranteed]

70. They were upset with policy issues (and strategy, a product

of policy). That's pretty clear.

And Dean doesn't get a vote on anything. You expect him to say nothing at all?

What I'm saying is as clear as crystal. He has the support of the base. He was just overwhelmingly elected by them. You can't get around that.

And, fine, you want an example wherein Dean, and the base, affected policies? Look at what he did in the primaries. He forced the other candidates to vote against the $87B's for the war, and he also forced them to start speaking out against the war. Hell, Kerry stole nearly his entire platform, and that carried over into Kerry's policies in the general election (although he couldn't carry the whole thing, obviously).

That was all pressure from the base, as was his election to the chairmanship. I don't understand why you don't see that. It's a fact.

[welshTerrier2]

91. Dean said he will leave POLICY to the elected Dems

i would really prefer not to get into a debate over Dean's position in Iraq ... but i will say that i voted for Kucinich specifically because i did not, and do not, like Dean's position on Iraq ...

And Dean doesn't get a vote on anything. You expect him to say nothing at all? ... that's what Dean said, not what i said ... do you disagree with him?

What I'm saying is as clear as crystal. He has the support of the base. He was just overwhelmingly elected by them. You can't get around that. ... i supported Dean for Chair ... i agree with you he had the support of many in "the base" ... i'm not trying to "get around that" ... but he had the support of so many because of his fundraising, his energizing of the grassroots, and his outsider status (i.e. his call for changes from the status quo) ... he did not provide a laundry list of issue positions that drove his broad support for Chair ... as I said, i doubt that very many Democrats could even tell you a single position Dean holds on the issues ...

He forced the other candidates to vote against the $87B's for the war, and he also forced them to start speaking out against the war.
What other candidates? IIRC, Kucinich was always against it ... Even Kerry voted FOR IT the first time it came up ... Gephardt ?? i thought he voted for it ... Clark didn't have a vote ... was he opposed to the $87 billion?

and the saddest part of all is that with the exception of Ted Kennedy and a handful of others, you may think Democrats are "speaking out against the war"; i don't ... I don't see Dean speaking out against the war either ... he may be speaking out against how bush has conducted the war but i haven't heard him say we should stop fighting it ... "speaking out against the war" means you call for the U.S. to get out NOW or in the very near-term; it doesn't mean that you call for continued war ... Dean has said on repeated occasions that we are stuck in Iraq ... and if you're claiming that Kerry stole Dean's position on Iraq, let me assure you that I hate Kerry's position on Iraq too ...

look, here's the bottom line with all this ... i think many perceive Dean as being far more progressive than he really is ... i genuinely believe he will do great things for the Party as Chair ... i agree that the base wants to see changes on how we battle the republicans and i think the base has finally gotten their message across to elected Democrats ... but Dean himself has said his role as Chair IS NOT ABOUT POLICY ... do you think he's just saying that and then secretly winking to you that he doesn't really mean it? i take him at his word ...

btw, my position is NOT that Dean shouldn't speak out on policy when he wants to ... he should have every right to speak out when he has something to say ... of course, it's important that any position he takes is part of a coordinated political strategy and that will require further discussion and negotiation with Congressional Democrats ... all representatives of the Party need to stay on message ...

[Guaranteed]

93. Yes, I'd say that Dean must have been

mistaken in what he said, if he said that he's not going to say anything. In fact, he's already said quite a few things. So I don't see how you could take that seriously.

And, yes, his popularity was widely because of the prospect of changing the status quo. The policy and strategy status quo. The people wanted, and still want, leadership. They want someone to stand up for what we believe in. Few others were willing to do that. Or, alternatively, when they finally became willing, it was too late, and they'd compromised themselves.

You know, it's almost as if the base supported Dean because we HAD no policy before him- other than the Republicans'.

Both Kerry and Edwards voted against the $87B. And you know that many of the candidate's rhetoric on the war changed dramatically- Dick "Miserable Failure" Gephardt probably most of all. Dean seriously affected the race. That is well documented and very widely believed.

I realize that Dean is a moderate. But the difference is that he's a leader. He doesn't back down from the Republican bullshit. That counts for...well, just about everything, I guess.

The bottom line for me is that Dean is speaking for the party, now, whether he's "officially" creating policy or not. He's our leader. Yes, he needs to work with Congressional Democrats to make sure the message is coordinated, both ways. Yes, he needs to be careful about not getting too emotionally charged. But the people have spoken, and they are speaking through Dean. No one else would do it. Pretty simple, really. He's representing them.

[wyldwolf]

36. no matter how much you want it to be so, Dean will not set policy

You said Congress elected Dean. They did not.

The chair is not elected by the dems in congress, but by DNC members. There is a difference.

In regards to the last chair selection, the Chair was selected by majority vote from among candidates who qualified for the race by submitting 20 nominations from current DNC members.

[Guaranteed]

37. We're the ones setting policy now.

We want strong opposition to Bush. That's what we'd better get.

Dean got elected because of that, and HE has the support of the base. Not Pelosi. Not Reid. DEAN.

This DLC insider shit is OVER. And I can guarantee you that if we don't start seeing some results from our elected party representatives, Dean will be working to change that. Because he is representing US, no matter how he got into the position as LEADER OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Guaranteed]

50. Man, you got the threat right there in your subject line.

Nothing vague about it.

And it's hardly a threat. You wanted facts, there you go.

And one more fact- Dean is the LEADER OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY. He has the party behind him.

(Man, I AM liking capitals tonight, aren't I? What can I say- I just like the sound of it.)

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Guaranteed]

54. Who knows, maybe he's just being modest.

But, you know, he does like to say that we're the ones with the power- in fact, maybe that's the idea, here. Hmmmm.....

That's something to think about.

[wyldwolf]

61. I take him at his word

[Guaranteed]

62. So do I.

But he's said an awful lot of words. I think he'll continue to represent them all.

[wyldwolf]

65. obviously you don't

Because he's said he has no say in policy and you think he does.

[Guaranteed]

67. You're not understanding what I'm saying.

He doesn't have to "set policy"- deliberately, or officially, at least- to stay true to and vocal about his past political views.

I think he'll continue to tell the truth, while some may not like it, as the DNC Chair.

You can call it whatever you want, at that point.

[wyldwolf]

69. Sure I do

He doesn't have to "set policy"- deliberately, or officially, at least- to stay true to and vocal about his past political views.

No one has said he doesn't have to be true and vocal about his past political views. These views, however, will not be the basis of the DNC's policies.

That is the point.

[Guaranteed]

71. Well, I'm saying they will, because those ideas represent the base's

views, and he's saying them as the leader of the party.

Sure, there's nothing "official." What's the difference, though?

[Name removed]

73. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Guaranteed]

76. If you don't know who they are, you can't say they didn't

elect him.

Look, you know what happened. We're the base. The DNC members are the base. Those who have true Democratic values, even if they stray on an issue or two, are the base. They elected him.

That's it, man. You're biting on granite. You saw it.

[wyldwolf]

81. sure, I know what the base is, just not the mythical one...

... heralded on DU.

The base consists of traditional Democratic voters - who've always been moderate.

The DNC consists of many viewpoints on many issues. THEY elected him.

[Guaranteed]

83. Hey, Dean just stands up for what he and they believe in.

He's no radical. You know that.

He just has very strong opinions, and the DNC knows that he'll make them known.

You think that they expected him to shut up? Yeah...right. :)

[wyldwolf]

86. but he won't set policy beyond fundraising and elections

- he said so himself. His words were, "most of the policy pronouncements will be coming from the leaders in Congress and not from me."

He may not shut up, but he confirms he won't say much.

[Guaranteed]

90. Look, dude, he's just going to speak real loud into the mic, as

the leader of the Democratic Party. He's not going to "pronounce" anything. He's just going to show leadership. That's all.

There's nothing to worry about. It's cool, man.

[welshTerrier2]

44. no you're not ...

I might agree that to some degree the outcry from the grassroots MAY have effected a more combative tone by Democrats in Congress ... of course, other factors could be at work here as well ...

first, the old way just cost us the White House and several House and Senate seats ...

second, Reid is not Daschle ... new leader, new style ...

and the grassroots MAY have influenced the TACTICS we're seeing, but that does not mean they are influencing policy ... the two are far too often conflated ...

in fact, many in the Party who see themselves to the left of Dean see him as a moderate ... if I want the U.S. to withdraw from Iraq over the next few months, it's difficult to see how I am setting policy ... so when you say "We're the ones setting policy", I would ask you just who is this "we"? Can you cite examples, other than a possible influence on greater combativeness, that the grassroots has "bent the will" of elected Democrats on policy?

I wish it were so and that ALL Democrats actively participated, that ALL Democrats were really heard by Party higher-ups, and that ALL Democrats had a real role in setting policy ... I just don't see it ... hopefully that will change ...

[Blue Wally]

92. When the Democratic party was strong.....

The DNC was in the hands of technicians like Lawrence O'Brien. You need an organizer and a strategist, not an idea man or a political philosopher heading up the DNC.

[sybylla]

19. Our elected officials represent us

If they call themselves Democrats, then they are expected to adhere to the ideals, policy, platform, whatever you want to call it, of the Democratic Party and it's members. Not the other way around.

The Democratic Party has a long tradition of being a bottom-up organization (as opposed to the pukes who seem to love to dictate and manipulate from the top down). People at the grassroots have a say in what we stand for and what we want to see in the legislatures. Policy isn't dictated to us by the politicians and shouldn't be. We're the boss, not them. We elect our party delegates and through them, our DNC chair, our state chair. It shouldn't be awarded to someone the politicians choose. We're the boss. We choose our leader.

Yes, Howard Dean was elected. He was elected by members of the Democratic Party. You don't like it, join the party and work to change it. You're the boss, after all.

[Guaranteed]

103. Yup, that's what we just told them.

That's what Dean's telling them.

[sybylla]

15. Technically, that's how it's supposed to be done

As for the direction of the party, that should be set by the people and members of the party.

The elected delegates to the state convention vote on the platform and resolutions submitted by local and district party organizations. They elect delegates to the DNC who work to invoke that established state philosophy on the national level. Elected Federal representatives (senators and congressmen) as well as the Dem governors are automatic DNC delegates as well, so in some measure, the elected officials have a say in policy development too. But it the party platform is supposed to arise from the membership in the party - not the other way around.

Unfortunately, that hasn't been happening in the past couple of decades. From what I've seen of Howard Dean, he's about to put things back the way they are supposed to be. He's not asking you to give it over to him. He wants you to have it and to treat it like the great opportunity it is.

Join the party and help set the agenda for the next two years.

[Guaranteed]

9. I don't think people really know.

In any case, some Senator telling Dean he doesn't at LEAST get a say in policy isn't just over-stepping his bounds, he's kidding himself.

[greendog]

10. follow the money

n/t

[Catchawave]

13. I would hope that the DNC listens to the people, not the

corporations. In a perfect world. I hope I have a say in DemLand !

[Adelante]

14. I can't vote in the poll

But this is how I think it works:

When there's a Democratic president, that's who sets policy; when there is a Democratic nominee, that's who sets policy; at other times it's the Democratic leadership in Congress. The role of the chair is to carry out policy, not set it.

[Guaranteed]

21. So you want Harry Reid to set policy?

Even though he's only representing Nevada?

[wyldwolf]

24. I don't think you understand. It isn't OUR choice

We're not voting to decide who sets policy. There is a tradition. The chair does not set policy. Elected officials on committees do.

[Adelante]

27. I didn't say what I want

I said how I think it is. Maybe Dean will change this, but he's going to be awfully busy restructuring the mechanics of elections and of the party, and raising all the money the party needs to run campaigns.

But here's what I really think: Dean wanted to be party chair and in order to get it, he had to promise to lay off policy. People like Harold Ickes didn't endorse him for free. We'll see if I turn out to be right or not, but it's what it sounds like from what he's been saying this week.

I supported Dean for chair and I'm truly glad he made it, but I'm not one who thinks he's more than a politician.

[Guaranteed]

30. Are you saying it's a consensus among our Congress, or are you saying it's

Harry Reid?

Because, traditionally, I don't see where it says that the Senate Minority Leader, from ONE state, gets to set policy for the whole party.

That would be bad, too, if that were the case, here.

[Adelante]

39. No I'm not saying Harry Reid

Except he is the leader and it is his job to hammer out the consensus among the Dem Senators and it's his job to formulate it. It has nothing to do with Nevada, I'm not sure why you mention it. It's the legislative body, the elected Democrats who he is leading.

[Guaranteed]

46. He's the senate...and minority...leader.

He only leads the Senate Democrats. And he was only elected by Democrats from one state.

On the other hand, Howard was elected on a national level, by Democrats in all kinds of different positions, to head the entire party. Previously, particularly when we had a national leader, like a president, and maybe a majority in one house or another, the DNC Chairman may not have been very influential. But that's when things were going well, and when our leaders could be trusted. What we're dealing with now, with the weakness of the party, and the desperate need for both strategic and policy change, it's time for new blood.

Dean has been given a mandate. The fact that we're even having this discussion I think tells a lot about how badly the party needs him.

[Blue Wally]

97. Reid is the "leader"

who has been chosen in the Democratic caucus by all of the Democratic senators to represent them. Pelosi fills the same role for the house Democratic caucus. As a result, they are pretty much the "senior" Democratic leaders at the national level since we do not have a sitting president. Kerry is still the "titular head" of the party till the 2008 convention.

[wyldwolf]

17. unless Dean takes on a non-traditional role...

..he won't set policy. The Chair does not set policy.

Sorry.

Traditionally, the chair in charge of party funds. The chair works on election strategy. The chair has some say in the platform, but the DNC is not obligated to listen, nor are the elected officials who actually pound out the party's platform and policies.

House Minority Whip Steny Hoyer (D-MD: 'I dont believe it is the role of the party chair to set the policy of the party. That is the role of elected officials,' Hoyer told reporters yesterday.

'I think his job as party chairman to ensure that the party is organized well and to contest every congressional district in America, every county, state and city in America, and raise sufficient funds to compete effectively.'

http://www.hillnews.com/thehill/export/TheHill/News/Frontpage/020905/brief.html

New national Democratic Chairman Howard Dean promised Saturday to rebuild the party in the most conservative regions of the country, help develop state and local organizations and let congressional Democrats set the tone on policy.

"The proper place for the day-to-day battles is Congress," Dean said in response to a question about his opposition to the war in Iraq. "My views are well known, but most of the policy pronouncements will be coming from the leaders in Congress and not from me."

http://www.al.com/newsflash/election/index.ssf?/base/politics-0/1108391456294190.xml&storylist=al_election

[Guaranteed]

28. First, I think it's fair to say that he's going to take on a non-

traditional role.

Secondly- have you changed your mind? Because what you're saying now isn't what you said here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1591497#1591716

[wyldwolf]

32. First, you're wrong - Dean has given every indication that he WON'T...

...take on a non-traditional role.

Secondly, you're wrong again.

At your link, I agreed that Reid, the Senate Minority Leader, Pelosi, the House Minority Leader, and Dean, the party Chairman, need to work together, but I never said or implied what role Dean would take in that process.

Per tradition, Dean will work in fundraising and election strategy and, in his words, WILL HAVE LITTLE effect on policy decisions.

I did, however, say (again at your link), that anyone who thinks Howard Dean is going to set the DNC on fire and effect policy change across the board is delusional.

No matter how much you want it to be so, Dean will not set policy.

[Guaranteed]

34. First, whatever he's indicated, he already HAS taken on a non-traditional

role. Have you ever seen this kind of media coverage for a DNC elected official? Have you ever seen a response from the public like this? Have you ever seen a DNC Chair elected running not only on his fund-raising abilities, but his POLICIES, too?

Secondly, you knew EXACTLY what you were saying at the time.

"But anyone who thinks Howard Dean is going to set the DNC on fire and ***effect policy change across the board*** is delusional."

Uh huh.

I mean...unless we suddenly stopped talking about what we were talking about...

[wyldwolf]

38. you still don't get it

He hasn't taken on a non-traditional role. A non-traditional amount of attention has been given to his selection based on his history.

Have you ever seen a response from the public like this?

The public has little or no idea this has even happened. Only Democrats, republicans, and others who follow politics. And the only Democrats who have given Dean's selection a lot of attention are the Dean supporters.

Have you ever seen a DNC Chair elected running not only on his fund-raising abilities, but his POLICIES, too?

No, and I still haven't. What proof do you have the Dean was selected based on his policies???

You're right. I knew EXACTLY what I was saying at the time.

But anyone who thinks Howard Dean is going to set the DNC on fire and ***effect policy change across the board*** is delusional

Exactly. Dean will work on fundraising and elections.



Have you ever seen a DNC Chair elected running not only on his fund-raising abilities, but his POLICIES, too?

[Guaranteed]

43. They didn't run on policy?

So why did Rosenberg get thrown out on DU for being an Iraq War supporter?

Why did Roemer get nailed for being anti-choice?

Why was virtually every other candidate destroyed due to their policy problems?

Seems to me that they were talking about policy constantly. That's why Dean won- he's from the Democratic wing of the Democratic party. :)

As far as the public, anyone who watches the news knows exactly what happened. Dean was all they were talking about for weeks, and they're still talking about him.

Lastly, your previous statement, and the thread, speaks for itself. You insult every DUer thinking that they don't understand exactly what you were saying.

Man, as calimary put it, the DLC insiders didn't get invited to the dance. We know who the Democratic constituents support. Congress would do well to recognize that, for the whole party's sake, instead of trying to undermine their own chairman.

It's pretty sad, really, that THEY still don't get it.

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

57. Deleted message

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[Guaranteed]

60. ROFL!!

I answered all of your questions. And you may as well have asked what you get when you add 2 and 2.

Although I'm right here, clearly, I'll give you the opportunity to tell me why Dean won, then.

Why did Dean win, even though many of the other candidates had great fundraising experience and ideas? I mean, the guy was basically out of the public eye. What happened?

And, you know- are you sure that you're not just reliving those primaries, by the way? You sure you're not just angry that Dean gets a serious, national role in the party, and that he's changing everything?

[Name removed]

64. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[wyldwolf]

63. no, they didn't

So why did Rosenberg get thrown out on DU for being an Iraq War supporter?

So DU caused Rosenberg to be "thrown out????

Why did Roemer get nailed for being anti-choice?

Same reason Reid did. But we know where he is. Wait. Who nailed"nailed" him? DU?

Why was virtually every other candidate destroyed due to their policy problems?

Show me how/where they were destroyed. Please

You give waaaaay to much credit to DU's (non)influence in politics.

And all you can do is try to turn it into another sad little rant about the boogeyman DLC.

And now that he is chair, you can't accept the fact that - policy wise - he is virtually powerless. And he has said so himself.
So go argue with Dean.

[Guaranteed]

74. #1. No, not DU.

Everyone who wrote letters. Which I SAID.

#2. Reid didn't run a national campaign. And you're still avoiding the fact that Roemer DID in fact get nailed for being anti-choice.

#3. They all lost. They all dropped out. They were destroyed. Dean was elected in a landslide.

You know, I think I said this before...

Dean has all the power in the Democratic Party. The DLC is finished. They're losers, and everyone knows it.

[wyldwolf]

78. That isn't what you said

1. You said, "why did Rosenberg get thrown out on DU for being an Iraq War supporter?" DU - not "everyone who wrote letters.

2. Reid holds a national position. Roemer got nailed on internet message forums. That's about it.

3. They dropped out. But weren't destroyed on issues as you asserted.


Dean has all the power in the Democratic Party.

...as a fundraiser

The DLC is finished. They're losers, and everyone knows it.

in your dreams.

[Guaranteed]

80. Sorry, I forgot to bridge the logic.

Step #2- Policy was the huge issue, and those who disagreed with Rosenberg's policies wrote letters.

Thought you would fill it in for yourself.

Reid doesn't hold a nationally elected position, and he has never run a national campaign.

Yes, they were destroyed.

And Dean has the mic.

[wyldwolf]

84. you still haven't bridged the logic

... there's that little claim about DU?

The DNC chair isn't a nationally elected position, either - as long as we're keeping score - and the race for the chair isn't a national campaign.

No, they weren't destroyed. My repeated requests for proof of that assertion have been ignored.

Dean has the mic to raise funds.

[Guaranteed]

88. Alright. First, it was a policy issue on DU.

And, it was a policy issue everywhere on the Internet. All kinds of blogs were talking about it. Our activist base was talking about it. Those who cared enough to write letters were talking about it (LOL I guess you could at least call THEM the base?).

Policy was being discussed as a matter of whether or not someone should be elected to the chairmanship. LOL this is ridiculous

Then, those people who were talking about policy and judging the candidates on such went ahead and wrote letters to their DNC representatives. That put pressure on those DNC members- those who already, at least, didn't know that Dean was the correct choice, on policy, strategy, and fundraising (all of which were being talked about in the letters, I'm sure). Most of them knew already, though, probably.

So, then, on February 12th, those people who received letters went and voted for Dean. At that point they didn't even have a choice, because all the other candidates dropped out when they realized that they didn't have a snowball's chance in hell. That happened because candidates like Fowler and Rosenberg were topping out in the low double-digits as far as votes were concerned. This would suggest a pretty serious defeat.

Dean ran a long campaign for this position, and was elected by a large number of people (much larger than 44). People responded to it on a national level. Us "peons" wrote in to apply the pressure mentioned above, from all over the country.

If Dean's got the mic, he's got the mic. He's the one who's going to be heard. I guess that's only right, though, as the leader of the party.

[madfloridian]

18. Here is how the 2004 Platform was formed.

It is not done by the congress as much as they would like to believe it is. It is supposed to be about the people. I think now we will have more input.

http://www.democrats.org/platform/faq.html

[Adelante]

87. That's different

The platform is a set of principles; the policy is how those principles are carried out.

[janx]

94. Now we're getting somewhere!

We're finally at least trying to define what we're talking about. (This has became increasingly rare in DU discussions.) :toast:

[Guaranteed]

96. Hmmmm...that IS interesting.

:)

[janx]

100. This whole "Dean is nothing but a fundraiser" and "Dean

won't set policy" idea is silly. As Madfloridian points out, the platform points the way, and as WesDem says, politicians then implement policy according to the platform.

Dean will certainly influence policy in that regard. The DNC, via representatives of all 50 states, creates the platform and supports candidates running at all levels. It is then up to them to implement policy based on the platform. They have a lot of leeway in doing so, and their constituents--the people they represent--will voice their opinions.

It's not as if we have one supreme ruler dictating either platform or policy in the Dem party...or at least it's not supposed to be that way.

The exciting thing about all of this is that in handing more power over to communities and states, we're going to see some very positive change. It'll be very different and very exciting.

[Guaranteed]

102. Yup. :) And it's about time. nt

[Adelante]

105. Thank God!

This is where policy can be influenced:

"The exciting thing about all of this is that in handing more power over to communities and states, we're going to see some very positive change."

The leaders of the states are the same people who are in Washington; however, they do have to pay attention to what is roiling up their own backyards, and they will, but it has to come UP, not down. This is why I supported Dean for the job, because Dean knows this is how the important change can be effected.

But it's a long road and twisty.

Not talking to Janx here, but the idea that Dean's job is to "set policy" from the top and it's going to take, is where so many DUers are letting the point of it all get lost. He's got a lot of hard nuts & bolts work to do toward this end, but it is where he's going, and I'm glad.

Dean will certainly influence policy, but he's not the King of the Democratic Party, as he well knows, and there will be thousands in between also influencing policy, before it gets to the leaders in Congress, who will in effect "set" it, according to legislative needs and conditions. That's their job.

[janx]

23. Question: policy for whom, or what kind of policy?

This question, especially regarding Dean lately, seems to be centered on some archaic notion of who is "calling the shots." But it seems to me that there are different kinds of policy in different situations. To say that Dean won't have anything to do with policy is just sour-grapes reactionism. As head of the DNC, he'll no doubt have recommendations to people in certain situations, but he won't be calling the shots or ordering people around.

We have to remember that there are manu kinds of policy, from the local level on up. Policy will vary from community to community and from state to state. Those people running in the various states and communities will know those places and people best.

On a national level, the Dem platform will influence policy. That's something that falls within the realm of the DNC also, as it is constructed from DNC members from the various states.

The presidential nominee will wind up being a reflection of policy rather than a dictator of it--because after all, s/he is a reflection of what the people want to see in a Dem leader.

From what I've seen, at least, there is no one dictator of "policy" in a democracy, thank God.

[Guaranteed]

25. I agree.

The answer to the question isn't black and white.

It's a consensus among the DNC members.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[FrenchieCat]

42. The media sets the agenda and the agenda sets the policies

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

49. The polls and the lobbyists.

So what else is new.

[LittleClarkie]

59. Kind of thought it was a platform thingie at the convention

if you mean policy as in position on issues.

But I'm not sure about the mechanism they use at the convention, as in who then decides on the platform.

[leftofthedial]

95. lobbyists

campaign donors

the bushgang secret police

[demwing]

98. Shouldn't an answer be "We Do" ? /nt

[Guaranteed]

99. That's #5 nt

[demwing]

101. missed it, thanks. /nt

[AntiCoup2K4]

104. Right now it's DLC, PNAC, AIPAC and the corporations.

But it shouldn't be ANY of the above.

[CWebster]

106. Recently? The Republicans. nt

[lojasmo]

107. Here is the definitive answer:

The Democratic party platform is set by the DNC. Motions are sent up from the local level, and are voted upon by the DNC.

Since the democrats have almost no power in either house, the DNC needs to fill the void which is left by our dearth of leadership in the house and senate.

"The National Platform is an official statement of the Party's position on a wide variety of issues. A new Platform is adopted every four years by the Democratic National Convention."

-Democratic party website

www.democrats.org/about/platform.html

[robbedvoter]

109. Lobbyists invested in a GOP dominance (they give more to GOP too)

I remember when W cut taxes the first time in 2001, McAuliffe started to protest. Zell Miller (who, of course voted for) wrote an editorial in the NYT that the party us undermining him. Within 24h DNC went silent on the tax cuts - eversince. And, no, Zell Miller was never THAT powerful.

[YNGW]

110. Bill Clinton

Make no mistake, he pulls the strings. I don't care who the DNC Chair is, the leaders of Congress, the head of the DLC, or whoever. None of them are making any major moves without his blessings.