Do you feel any animosity toward the Bush voters ?

I'm trying very hard not to blame them but as George W Bush gets ready to run our country into the ground and attempts to dismantle Social Security, I'm having a difficult time feeling anything other than being pissed off and ready to kick their stupid asses for the mess they have put us in. They deserve no sympathy or understanding. That's just the way I feel and if they don't like it, they can kiss my ass on the county square.

so many times before you just want to scream..."Fuck you you stupid jingoistic no balled bastards!"

That's why I think the revolution started November 3!

They deserve whatever happens to them and theirs. Unfortunately, their children don't deserve it, nor do we.

Anyone who complains about anything w/i the country over the next few decades will get my immediate query--Did you vote for *? Yes? Then suck it up and deal, traitor.

I'm seeing my repug brother for the first time in several years next month. He's a gung-ho * supporter, and I just know we have nothing in common. I'll be with 9 other people though, all Dems. Maybe we'll convert him! But I feel your pain. It astounds me that so many people are so clueless.

I am not sure I will be able to hold my tongue. My mother is becoming more christian fundamentalist by the day. She is totally brainwashed. My wife will probably have to restrain me when the rest of the repugs in my family get in the same room with me. I have avoided them for decades.

KL

My mother in law came to stay with us every month for a few days. She is a fundie-lite wing nut, but in the past I had always diverted conversation towards safe ground so as to avoid family problems.

A few days after the selection she called to confirm when she would be arriving, but spoke with a smirky tone in her voice. I could no longer be congenial nor quiet.

I prepared by taping to the fridge short newspaper clippings that questioned the legitimacy of the election & the moral values of people who voted for shrub. When she arrived I welcomed discussion of the issues, the integrity of the administration, and the illegitimacy of the results of the election.

She left the following day, choosing to stay at the Hilton instead. Now when she comes to town she stays at the Hilton and never comes over. My hubby thinks this is for the best & wasn't in the least bit angry with me.

I feel sooo much better now.

-- vote to endors this administration.

Abu Ghraib ought have been the triggerswitch for a massive rejection of Bush and his forces of darkness.

I know many people who think Abu Ghraib is EXACTLY what we should be doing and support * even stronger because of what went on there. Pretty fucked up isn't it?

I know a few that say we should kill all the Muslims, and then starts spouting off about well they cut off heads, and I have to remind them of all the prisoners in the beginning that they released, who said they were treated okay, including Jessica...untill Abu Guhraib



I ignore anyone that I know voted for him, they no longer deserve my respect, and I do not trust them any longer...

blame them. All the information was out there before the election and they still voted for him. Even after any voter fraud is discounted from the results he succeeded in getting too many to believe him. Are they people that are easily brainwashed or are they just greedy and uncompassionate? Why do some people actually like to be lied to? I don't understand it and it bothers me more to think that the dems think that they need to move more to the right and assume those values.

For example, I know a woman on another board who is a gung-ho chimp supporter. Thinks he's a godly man and the war in Iraq is a sacred mission.

Just learned today that her ex-husband kidnapped their daughter after they divorced. Interestingly, she's estranged from her grown daughter now too. I feel sorry for her, of course, but I also can't help thinking that she is an extremely poor judge of character.

Just like millions of other chimp supporters, she appears to choose abusive, vicious people to hook up with over and over again.

I am embarrased for them.

I do not accept this line of crap that people forget their economic and national security just to make a moral statement on frigging gay marriage and abortion. Bush supporters think things will get better and that he's a strong, decisive leader. They are uninformed since things are worse and his leadership has cost us dearly. You're either lazy or limited in basic logic to miss this.

The ridiculous press, subversives of the first order, is largely responsible for this. People need things spelled out in big letters and simple pictures. The media whore-dogs just won't/can't do it because their masters won't allow it (yet, when it gore's their ox, they will and there will be a torrent of concisely chronicled scandals chasing Bush from office).

They usually ask, but, but you hate bush. (No you stupid fuck I don't hate the man just his policies but that is too complex for your black and white little punny mind)

that does not matter... remember you voted for him....

That usually leaves them flabergasted, what could I mean? When they ask, especially the chicken hawks, I take pleasure in telling them, they voted for more war, destruction and a draft... they should be honored to get an all paid vacation to a war zone...

The older ones, you voted for the destruction of social security...

It is coming... and that is what it will take to wake them up, when it is THEIR SKIN

They've enabled Bush to destroy America.

Selfish or stupid, I hate both.

Selfish,
Stupid,
Superstitious;
or any mixture thereof

And payback will be a bitch.


MDN

in truth there wasn't enough of them to win. They had to be created. So, mostly, I pity them, smile and shake my head when I hear them speak. I think I trust God more than they do. I don't believe things will continue down this road without either a mass movement of some kind or a violent reaction by the left. People will get fed up and act.

every time I'm behind some ass with a Bush* sticker on his car. There's even a house on my drive to work that still has the damned Bush* sign proudly displayed (hanging above head level, no less) in their driveway.

These cars are also usually festooned with Jesus fish, gold ribbons, American flags and that annoying 'choose life' license plate so delightfully unique to Florida. These misguided, bot-brained dimwits sicken me with their self-righteous, smug pride in the horrific damage that they have done our country.

delightfully unique to Florida"

I don't know if you ever read my post about going to the Tag agency (here in St Petersburg)...anyway, Since I was getting renewed anyway, I asked the clerk there that since they had a "Pro Life" tag, did they have any Tags that said either:

1. Pro Death
2. Pro Choice
3 Pro Abortion

She didn't think it was funny (called the Guard on me)

Dear friend and fellow American:

I know how much you support President Bush and the war effort in Iraq. But I noticed that you haven’t signed up to fight yet. It might be because you are too busy, or maybe you just didn’t know how easy it is to join! I know you probably feel guilty about sending other young men and women off to die in your place, so I am sure you’ll take this opportunity to do the right thing:

Sign up for a tour or two in Iraq today!

You will enable some poor soldier who’s stuck there, exhausted, scared, isolated, frustrated, thirsty, poorly supplied, insufficiently armored, under constant threat, lied to about why he’s there and when he’s going to be released, and yearning to come home – to do just that: come home!

What could possibly be more patriotic?

What better way could there be to prove your devotion to President Bush?

“…And I’d gladly stand up next to you and defend her still today.
‘Cause there ain’t no doubt I love this land. God bless the U.S.A.”

Below are the links you can use to sign up to join any branch of the armed forces!

http://www.airforce.com/contact/locator_fr.htm
http://www.navy.com
http://www.marines.com/request/contact_recruiter_reques...
http://www.goarmy.com/contact/find_a_recruiter.jsp
http://www.gocoastguard.com/offices/recindex.htm
http://www.dior.whs.mil/forms/DD0004.pdf

Line Up!
Sign up!
Today!


I had about 200 of these printed up on nice, bright Chickenhawk Yellow paper, centered, with the last three lines in very large type, and the lyrics to that nauseating song in very small type. I saw one of these on the internet and copied it, adding only the second paragraph, myself.

I stick one of them on the windshield of EVERY parked car I see that has one of those stupid "w04" stickers or a bush/cheney sticker on it, assuming I'm able to pull over and stop and do so safely. No one, wherever I drive, gets away with blind bush support - unchallenged. I noticed one car I visited tried parking around the block after I leafletted it. Another one switched from parking along the curb to hiding in the driveway behind a gate. So be it. At least I got one blight off the streets, even if only temporarily.

I don't care if it's dismissed as a mere annoyance. It's the least I can do, and it's my complete pleasure to be such an annoyance.

Think I'll print out some myself!
Thanks!

Just printed one out--tomorrow I'll get a bunch copied, on yellow paper, as per your suggestion!

I'm going to do the same thing. Thanks for the idea!

I blame them, blame them, blame them! Total idiots! They aren't misguided, they're evil. You are correct. They deserve no sympathy or understanding, and will never get any from me.

FUCK HAVE THEY DONE?" showed up in my mind, because that's twice in four years now, and I don't know what we're going to do...

But I don't get mad at them in their faces, because that won't convince them to change.

Good for you for understanding that trying to change them isn't the point.

It's going to take a lot of maturity to weather all this mis-information that tells people what a great job Bush is doing creating jobs when it isn't the truth.

I have several Republicans in my family and my best friend is very Pro-life so she was worried that I would hate her if she voted for him. I was very angry about his stuff - still am - but I made sure to let her know it wasn't about her, it was about the issues AND being lied to AND his sneaky behind the door attacks on our civil liberties.

I think I am comfortable being hard as nails on the issues, but feel it is my responsibility as a Democrat to show the world we ARE the better party. No doubt about it.

If I act like an ass because they do.... ya' know?

Hope things work out for your Dad's job situation.

entire rest of the bush family. my anger is towards people like my cousins who say their moral values lead them in a direction to vote for bush ... a statement on their part which leaves me flat opened mouthed, because as Dr. Robin Meyers' says,

"When you start a war on false pretenses, and
then act as if your deceptions are justified because
you are doing God's will, and that your critics are
either unpatriotic or lacking in faith," THAT IS IMMORAL

"When you claim that Jesus is the Lord of your
life, and yet fail to acknowledge that your policies
ignore his essential teaching, or turn them on their
head " ... THAT IS IMMORAL

" When you dismantle countless environmental
laws designed to protect the earth which is God's gift
to us all, so that the corporations that bought you
and paid for your favors will make higher profits
while our children breathe dirty air and live in a
toxic world" ... THAT IS IMMORAL

and none of my cousins seem to have any understanding greater than a grasshopper's less than pea-sized brain to realize how wrong the bush policies are, so i am angry with them (my cousins)....BUT i feel incredible hostility towards the bushes who through their lies, their buyout of the media to propagandize their lines and distort the truth, have preyed on souls like of those of my cousins who don't seem to be able to listen, or,who, can listen only in very concrete terms.

Christ came to set us free.
He gave his life that ALL might know how dearly God loves his children here on Earth.
If Jesus came to the White House today, I'd love to see Him confront Bush:
"When I was hungry ... you did not feed me."
"But Lord..." Bush would stammer.
"When I was on death row... you pulled the plug."
"But Lord... I never," Bush would cry.
"When I was freezing to death in my apartment February 2003, you were hemming and hawing over the energy assistance extension - money that you dishonestly appropriated from the surplas in 2002."
"Yeah, well I remember that, but I didn't know it was YOU," Bush would whine.
"Really? And I thought you told everyone that you and Me were tight? Like this man. You remember that?"
Silence from the Bush man.
"Whenever you have done these to the LEAST among us, YOU have done this to ME and GW, I AM NOT AMUSED."

If I start listing all the reasons why, it'll turn into a rant.

Suffice it to say that if "the people have the power," they also have the responsibility. And I can't help but see a * vote as an almost shocking act of irresponsibility. Like mowing down a schoolyard of kids because you were drunk (note: Think this is inflammatory? Think of Iraqi kids), there's just no fucking excuse.

Well, I sleep with a Bush voter every night so I can't be mad at him. But it does make for interesting discussions and an exciting marriage! As long as a conservative is intelligent and can articulate their thoughts, I have no problem. It's the reactionary nut jobs out there who scare me.

Just curious..

these people fall for propaganda so easily and it's not even GOOD propaganda.

You ask how can anyone intelligent vote for this crap. I think you are making the classic mistake of assuming that if someone disagrees with you, then they must not be intelligent. My husband is a very intelligent, well-read man and I respect his choice to have his thoughts. And you can't tell me that someone like George Will is stupid. I may disagree with him, but I would always concede that he is a bright individual.

You also remind me of the story about the little Polish boy who was getting picked on at school. Another boy was calling him a stupid Pollack. The Polish boy asked, "Can you speak Polish?" The other boy admitted he could not. The Polish boy then asked, "How's it feel to be dumber than a Pollack?"

I think we make a terrible mistake if we assume that the 60-plus million people who voted for Bush must all be stupid. If so, how did we lose to a bunch of stupid people? And how do we reach them if they are all so mentally challenged? I think we need to take the approach that they are mistaken, they are wrong, and that they can be taught that a different approach to the world is better.

Look at the facts.

It isn't stupidity that causes repubs to vote the way they do. AND with the spectre of HUGE vote fraud still looming - we don't KNOW how many actually VOTED for him and how many Votes were FLIPPED for him or thrown out. http://blackboxvoting.org .

There's a logical process, an elitist mentality (repubs are always pointing to poor welfare moms and new age basket weavers as OUR dumb asses), AND MOST IMPORTANTLY - LOTS AND LOTS of DIS-information that leads repubs down an entirely different path.

If I believed what the mainstream press SAYS about Bush and the repubs, I could use those quotes to frame a different argument. I'm just one of those people who really watches what someone DOES as much as what they SAY. So I have never been impressed with Bush.

the drug of choice for neocon baby boom americans; not alcohol, not pot, not meth---fear. They'd rather suck on the big dique of fear and at the same time believing that "Superman" is going to fly out of the sky and rescue them. It's what was taught to them during the 1950's.

Fear, in one form or another, has been mainlined by the baby boom generation and they've made sure that their children have been fed on a steady diet of fear. Why they wouldn't be murkins if they weren't wracked with fear.

Can you say propaganda Boys and Girls?

How could one? They are coming out so fast and furious no one can keep up. Is your Bush voter at all sorry for helping elect a liar and cheat? For instance would he much rather Colin Powel had been a choice or something?

Do YOU know all the civil liberties Bush has trampled upon?
Do you know that they sneaked in a proviso in the Appropriations bill for example to audit anyone's tax records without just cause at any time? We already had random audits. So the only purpose of changing this could be to use such a device to put pressure on people and deprive them of the right to be "free from unlawful search and seizure".

I'm just dying to know what a true Bush supporter would think about that, but I haven't been brave enough to ask yet.

My son was going to vote for Bush AND join the Army. Things fell through - maybe partly because I told God if my son came home in a box God would have some 'splain' to do to me.

When my son would spout dis-information I'd just look at him and tell him the truth. Eventually he decided that a President who lied as much as Bush did couldn't be trusted.

a clue what is going on, so I try my best to cut them slack. (that doesn't mean I don't tell them their shit stinks) I believe the right's mind molders have created literally a cultic mindset in their followers. They can make the politically minded cult of conservatism think anything they want them to in 48 hours tops - then it trickles into the conventional wisdom.

I am new here, so I imagine most anything I say or link to has been discussed but..

Info control..through the demonization of info sources - the 'new' right isn't allowed to believe/accept info from any unapproved sources. Even if they are exposed to the truth - just like a cult - they are trained to negate the info if it conflicts with the cult's beliefs and goals. They aren't allowed to trust the NYT, the WP, LaT, NBC, CBS, ABC, BBC, NBC, CNN, NPR, PBS...on and on...they are even trained to distrust Walter Cronkite, for gosh sakes.

They have increased the number of mind molding outlets they have on the right the last few years but this demonization leaves them for the most part with FOX, Rush and theWashington Times for their info.

Rush passes out the lies and half truths to his flock 3 hours a day 5 days a week - I heard that Koresh didn't talk to his cult that much.

They also demonized people on the left. Remember Rush likening Dashcle to Satan? That is what cults are trained to believe - that anyone who is against the cult is doing the work of Satan. This is how they are trained to think.

They also believe that since God takes a personal interest in their efforts, they can be as deceptive as they wish. They can rationalize Bush's lies.The Moonies call this "Heavenly deception" -- lying to save the world from evil.

Then you have things like Newties GOPAC Memo, which is a language control. It wasn't meant to convince people of the 'new' right's vision, it was meant to manipulate our fellow American's minds.

I could go on, but here, this link might explain. Keep in mind you only need one of these traits - used properly - to manipulate someone. Some call it 'infrastructure' or 'getting their message out,' I call it spending billions manipulating minds.

Ten Mind Control Distinctives

I guess I am saying, I keep trying to cut them slack but it gets harder by the day. I try to keep in mind that producing today's conservative has been a production in process for decades and they know not what they do or why...their leaders is another story. imho.

From the first time Reagan drooled on a copy of the Washington Times, and there was no outrage, our goose was cooked. I don't think they got in a room and planned this, but what the right did was in essence a form of mind control.

Our nation has a much bigger problem than who's president; we have a large portion of our population under a mind control funk and their leaders are not going to let go.

Welcome to DU !

I wish I could believe it wasn't planned by this administration, but I've been doing my homework "this time". Maybe all that has led up to this has been cruel coincidence, but this administration has been working over time to control the press and the churches.

Reporters who asked "tough" questions were left out of the next press conference entirely. Just not notified. If you don't know where the President is going to be, makes it hard to report on his lies.

During the Republican Convention in Boston people had to sign a "loyalty card" to be on the "right side of the fence" literally a huge chain link fence 50 feet away from the President and in a highly visable/vunerable area.

Bush put the Pope on notice that his Bishops weren't "political" enough and low and behold the word came down that Catholics who voted for Pro Choice candidates would be ex-communicated. Of course, that didn't apply to Republican Pro Choice candidates like Rudy Guilliani - for him they dedicated an entire hospital wing in his honor.

Then there was the request that churches across the nation give Bushes agenda special attention during the service. Many replied back noting the conflict between church and state and the potential loss of their 301c Non-Profit status if they violated Federal regulations. Bush's response? He could "fix that" at least for the duration of the election. Has this man even HEARD of the Constitution?

that is what the right wing neocons are--they are a cult. This is how the Dems needs to start framing the RW-fundie agenda--the agenda of a cult. We need to own that word and use it every chance we get.

And welcome to DU!

I'll buy you a coupkle for one of the most insightful posts I've read in a very long time!

I posted his work many times here at DU. He is a compatriot and a trusted resource.

He is also to thank for the Moon Primer along with the brilliant Dave.

Thanks for the welcomes.

Hey, after I get the hang of the place and the mods take my training wheels off - we'll have some fun with the soul sellers. hehe

How does one know if the training wheels are off? Just try to post?

This tells some of why we are where we are....imho...

http://cellwhitman.blogspot.com /

and have even lost some friends. Bottom line is, they believed all the propaganda. They really don't know facts, they just seem to know talking points. I wish I could feel sorry for them, but they have to be so loud in their ignorance, and it just makes me angry. And someone else posted that their rethug friends think the torture was necessary. Sad, but true - mine do, too. "How else would we get those awful terrorists to talk?" Bushit logic run amuk. They also still think the war was necessary. I believe if shrumpy told them black was white they'd believe that, too, because he's a "man of God".

So, yeah I feel animosity, and I'll probably miss some of my friends, but I don't thus far. I'm too angry. There are people dying for no reason every single day because of their stupidity, and it just bothers me.

It's too bad your friends couldn't see that someone who kills in God's name better at least be attacking the right country. Iraq? Didn't the actual terrorists come from Saudi Arabia? And where was Bin Laden? etc... <g>

Keeps saying the bush mantra of "our troops are there to protect our freedom". Says that we shouldn't criticize the Chimp.

except for my dad.

I find out from every new person I meet who they voted for. It's important to me and is the best question I can ask to find out a lot about a person...

What a short-sighted view of the world to demand to know right off the bat who someone voted for, and to order your social universe around that fact. You are denying yourself the opportunity to meet a lot of interesting people. And by saying that a person's choice for president tells you a lot about them, you are committing the sin that we supposedly tolerant people never do -- judging someone without getting to know them. I work with a lot of people from all walks of life and across the range of political views. I can still enjoy a conversation with a right wing person, have a drink, discuss books, talk about the Orioles, etc. Plus my husband is a Bush supporter which gives me some perspective on all of this. Maybe I don't take all of this politics stuff as seriously as some, but I like people and I like to learn. But if you choose to live in a cave and only interact with like-minded folks, that is your choice. A sad choice, but yours to make.

Juat curious?

I know I've gotten into this in other forums, but I will state it here again. I do not equate conservatives with Nazis. My husband is a Republican, but a caring decent guy. So I can distinguish between repubs and nazis. No, I would not be friends with someone who actively advocated killing jews. Nor would I be friends with someone in the KKK. It is a silly comparison.

Here are your comments:

...What a short-sighted view of the world to demand to know right off the bat who someone voted for, and to order your social universe around that fact. You are denying yourself the opportunity to meet a lot of interesting people. And by saying that a person's choice for president tells you a lot about them, you are committing the sin that we supposedly tolerant people never do -- judging someone without getting to know them...."

We are talking about your idea of a "social universe". Only in that context do we ask if it is OK to befriend Nazis - not to compare conservatives to Nazis per se - but to indeed make a dinstinction, not to pretend that is only a "political difference" of opinion. It is more than that. No need to make it an argument about conservatives being Nazis....

First off, this sub thread began with someone saying "I fucking HATE them" and although the tone of the post is less scandelous, it gives anyone going into an idea that this person REALLY HATES Bush supporters because that's what the subject line says.

Second, Erin did say she wouldn't befriend someone who behaved as a Nazi. I'm hearing her try to say that not all Conservatives are Nazi's so IF a person doesn't talk to someone after finding out they're a repub, it is shortsighted.

Third, a lot of Jews were saved by people like Erin who believed the best until the true horror of the situation was exposed. Many of those who were "friends" with the people who became Nazi's were also unable to tolerate the inhumanity did their best to save as many as they could often risking their own lives in the process.

Lastly, HATE the SIN, not the Sinner. You can usually find something worthwhile in every human being if you're looking, but no, they don't have to be your "friend" if you HATE their values and behavior. It's just a waste of precious serenity to give other people that much power to destroy your good feelings about talking with like minded people as a choice.

Computer probs.

And although I don't agree with everything she says, I'm a Democrat, dammit and I believe she has the right to her opinion.

For the record, I look at Bush's behavior and it concerns me, makes me worry about us going the way of Nazi's, but that doesn't mean that every repub is a Nazi.

Nobody is saying every Repub is a Nazi...

Light ehough for you Kentuck?

Light ehough for you Kentuck?

Not all Republicans are Radicals, but RadCons are as bad as the KKK or the Nazi party. Some of these RadCons are talking about internment camps already (Malkin and a couple others to name names)

They are racist, and yes they would not mind killing, in this case Muslims instead of Jews, but brown is brown so it will pass for the moment, I guess.

Your husband may not be a RadCon, but be very busy with life. You don't take politics as serioously as others... you don't have time. Well a moral person has the duty to find out what is going around him or her and speak out when immoral acts are being commited.

By the way, this Republican Party is not your father's Republican Party, and your husband (givng him the benefit of the doubt) may have not noticed just how far to the radical right this party has moved. For the record many Republicans, intelligent Republicans, are increasingly waking up to the fact that their party is now under the control of a RADICAL clique, who may or may not find them disposable sooner or later.

Oh and yes I will compare some of these sick fucks in leadership possitions to Nazis, now observe I did not say all Republicans, but the Radicals now in charge... time to wake up... for you now live the classic dilema of a moral person in an immoral society. Yep, the same dilema that many decent Germans, hell many decent low level members of the Nazi Party, lived with in Nazi Germany. No, not every NAZI knew of the concentration camps, partly becuase they did not want to know, partly becuase not all of them were in the right place to know, or had the need to know... especially in the early days of the party. But as more and more crimes against humanity were commited and more outrages were commited, more and more members faced the fact that they started hearing whispers of what was going on. Many chose to remain silent, for the pall of fear had now enveloped the nation. Some chose to actually resist. There was a Resistance in Germany, but this is a little known fact. Hell we chose not to suport it for we wanted to defeat Germany utterly and completely.

Trust me, your husband, if this gets that bad, will face the same dilema many foot soldiers faced sooner or later. After all, after WW II was over, many former Nazis forgot what they did during those years and moved on with their lives. When asked, they were never members of the party, and they hoped records were lost. Could we get to that point? It truly depends on how far these sick fucks manage to carry the PNAC agenda... but if they do, and we end up in the midst of WW III, there is no way this country can defeat the world... on that you can mark my words.

But you should consider giving him a copy of Reinhold Neiebuhrs "Moral Man in an Immoral Society" or Hannah Arend's book "The Banality of Evil." Let him reach his own conclusions, especially if you add to that list, Hersh's "Chain of Command." Oh and for the record I do not envy you. He may be wonderful, but if he acutally favors any of the policies that these sick fucks are carrying out, including torture... then he is an instrument, and so are you.

I am lucky that my husband does not like these sick fucks either... but then again he has seen in the flesh how they are destroying much of our armed forces... in the field, by their insane policies.

a concentration camp, Abu Ghraib or Guantanamo Bay from viewpoint of detainee.

While I agree that we need to keep the dialogue open with repubs, I understand a "time out" people might want to take.

Erin - you're lucky because your repub is obviously someone who listens as well as talks.

I had a boss that would walk around the room spouting her repub lies and I was on the phone trying to do my work and she would shout down anyone who disagreed with her. It was a horrible experience.

I haven't shut down from repubs completely, but I wish they knew what I know about all the behind the scenes betrayals that have been going on in this administration.

It used to be that a man's word was his bond. I suppose those days are gone for most of the US, but it's always been my hope that the US would have president's who were honorable men and who took office because they really cared about making a difference in the world.

I saw in Kerry someone who patiently tried to explain his complex beliefs in the midst of a circus of lies. I saw someone who cared about our country and was willing to do whatever it took to repair the damage that's been done even though he couldn't see a short path solution that everyone expects these days.

That's why I voted for him. Why did you? Especially considering it could have caused friction in your home.

Maybe she voted for the other guy??

You donated to Dean, but did you vote for Kerry or someone else?

Just busy.

I don't have time to waste myself on assholes. There is not enough of me to go around! (I'm kidding you know...partially).

But really, listen, I know what you're saying...and I used to feel that way too. You know: get to know people, see what else they have to offer, maybe find out why they are so misguided, maybe help explain what a liberal is and tear down their misconception...but I am just tired of it. I don't have time to be your teacher or your funny debating partner from the other side of the fence, or your token liberal friend. I don't want to hear your rationalization for voting for that madman in office. (I'm using "you" in the general plural sense here; I'm not talking about you).

Politics is EVERYthing to me...maybe to others that is taking it too seriously, but I don't know how else to take it. What I mean is, some people interpret the world through religion, meaning everything that happens somehow relates back to their religion and they see their religion not only as a means of explaining the world, but as a tool for saving it. Others interpret the world through politics. Some probably use both.

Edited to add, just as a side note after reading the conversation above: I don't hate all Republicans. I hate all Bush-voters. There is a difference. And even then, there is one I don't feel hate for and that is my dad. I had to give him a pass. He's immediate family. My extended family on the other hand...you can have them.

HATE is a waste of time. People who are assholes don't deserve the time and energy it takes to hate them and they eat it up. Makes them feel powerful.

There are repubs who were just as blind sided as we were as far as the backend underhanded dealing that went on and some repubs are really devoted to God and will see what Bush does is wrong if they know about it.

That's the kind of friends and family I'm talking about. People who are ok mostly, but really mis-informed and not stupid.

Maybe Loathe is a better word for what I feel? I don't consider all hate/loathing to be a waste of time, depending on how you define it. Anger itself definitely can be harnessed for good...the power of righteous anger should never be underestimated.

My hate is not consuming, though it is active, but I don't feel it's a waste of my time anymore than love is. It certainly doesn't make me an unhappy person, and that's one way to measure if something is unhealthy...if it starts to make you unhappy.

edited to add:...or unproductive.

it's your husband who is "short-sighted"

I hate them for their evil

and/or

I hate them for their ignorance.

They can take their pick.

Would you allow a * voter to baby-sit your kids?

Would you even trust their judgement? Or their values?







By the way Hillary was right, they're out to undo everything FDR did, I'm reading Kitty Kelly's book now, and it seems the only person Prescott ever really hated was FDR for the New Deal...

I wouldn't want them to spend too much time with them - they might start reading Rush Mush books to them at breakfast or something.

Saw a survey that asked,

"Who would you rather buy your wood from?"


with choices of Kerry, Bush and Nader....

hah

And it feels good.

wong thread

I think the vast majority are in the former category. They've been fed so much swill by FauxNews and had so many * soundbites drilled into them - "Moral Values!" "Partial Birth Abortion!" "Freedom Is On The March!" etc. - that they've been rendered incapable of rational thought. The tiny minority that know what they are all about and simply don't care, that's another scary story.

I'd watch as long as I could, but it was so sickening that I would literally get sick to my stomach and have to leave the room ranting and raving like we are in this post. The dis-information is only clear though if you know what the truth is.

Presidents have lied before, but this is the first one the press hasn't torn to pieces - at least some of the time. I've started emailing the ones I can stand and thank them for a non-muffled column.... ie one that isn't so far up GW's ass that it sounds about like a regular opinion.

IDIOTS- THEY ARE ENABLING FASCISM, GETTING PEOPLE KILLED, SELLING AMERICA DOWN THE RIVER - I HAVE NO F***ING RESPECT FOR PEOPLE WHO VOTED FOR BUSH - NONE.

I have animosity against those who voted for him because they're bigots or haters or chickenhawks, or the greedy rich who want more, more, more.

But I don't have any animus against those who TRULY believed he's a good Prez, or preferable to Kerry. This is America, & people have a right to their opinions, even if we think they're wrong.

However, I'm also resentful that the Dems weren't able to make a strong enough case against Bush to win the election by a landslide.

Rather than thinking these millions of people are evil, crazy, etc. I'd like to look at why WE didn't do better. This wasn't a freak election; Dems have been losing ground for a long time.

A majority of people are with us on the issues, so why did we lose?
Was it the message or the messenger? And why do we keep doing the same things over & over, if they've already failed?

It's called "election fraud" and it's the main reason I'm not giving in to the idea that WE DIDN'T Convince enough people to vote for Kerry. People in "certain" parts of Ohio stood in line for 2-4 hours and were still cheated out of their votes. It's on video.

http://blackboxvoting.org

There's evidence of voting machine totals being possibly manipulated during the voting process and afterward in Florida and of evidence *signed* election tapes showing Kerry ahead in places he supposedly lost.

New Mexico is mad as hell about voter intimidation and disenfranchisement.

It is more empowering to take responsibility.

They voted for him.

Let them die for him.

I'm waiting until I hear someone I know who voted for Bush to complain about the war, the economy, their job...
Then I'll simply look at them and say "BED! MADE! LIE!"
They voted for him, they deserve all the pain and suffering that Bush will be bringing upon the rest of us in this world.

I saw a bumper sticker today (on a big old SUV, of course) that said "terrorists for Kerry 2004" right next to his Bush-Cheney. So yes I hate every last one of the assholes.

Loathing combined with the urge to Deficate...

When I see a W or chimp/cheney sticker on a car, I can't resist the urge to flip the driver off, and I'm a middle aged homemaker - I'm sure these people are thinking, "WTF did I do that that woman flipped me the bird?"

Anyone who supports the chimp is screwing up the future for my 11-year-old daughter, and that, to me, is unforgivable.

I don't want to let anyone off the hook for their poor choice, but I think that the whole animosity aspect isn't a way to resolve anything. I want a real solution, not just someone to blame and honestly I've never had to search so hard for the truth or wade through as much bullshit to get to it ever before.

I think Republicans have the right to believe the way they do as long as they let me have the same courtesy. I think if most of my Republican friends knew the truth about torture in Guantanamo Bay, they would be appalled. Being a Republican doesn't make someone an asshole all by itself, but it sure makes them difficult to deal with sometimes.

If we can get to honest discussions with the other side and help them see how they have been lied to, they won't like it any more than we do. I think there is a great potential to turn this country from the Republican platform if we can show them we are not petty in this regard, but seriously worried about all of America moving forward with leadership that cares about something more than paying back the people who bought him the office and wrecking everything that works in this country just because they can.

TONS. They voted for people and policies that harm us all. They voted for people and policies which are IMMORAL.

So yes, loads of animosity.

I see a big gas-guzzling Hummer or Expedition with a W'04 sticker and an "I Support the Troops" yellow ribbon magnet.

She nails Bush on his stuff all the time and she's so down to earth and yet she doesn't take cheap shots.

(who shall remaim nameless) instead of Al Gore. A lot of them are probably on this thread complaining about bush voters.

It wasn't easy to find out everything I needed to know to be an informed citizen. I knew that Saddam was no threat, that the towers didn't come down because someone hated my freedom, the huge deficits were being created because of tax cuts for the wealthy. I didn't learn about this from some MSM news report. I did my homework.

Although I got every answer right on the test, and the bush voters failed the test somehow they got the "A." Moreover, even though they failed, their leadership sticks up for them, while mine pretends they don't know me.

The entire thing pisses me off.

in Iraq than over here our guys clam up. Then would be a perfect time to instruct the repukes on the immorality of invading a country that did nothing to us, tear it assunder, claim we are giving them their freedom, while we make them the number one terrorists recruiting center in the world. People can't even leave their homes in Iraq for fear of the "insurgents." I really don't think Jesus would approve.

http://www.logosjournal.com/piven_election_interview.ht...

It was written prior to the election but much of what she says rings true--true--true!

This is not a pity party, but an after action review is warrented. I would like to write to her because I have some questions. Also, I believe that much of what she points out is exactly why I support Clark. First and foremost, he is not a politician in the nastiest sense.

Q: What would it mean for American social movements if, either Kerry or Bush were to win in November?


Piven: Well, some people think that if Bush wins it will energize social movements because his policies are so provocative and they’re so transgressive.  They violate so many American values and they violate so many groups of the American public.  I think that that’s wrong—that it’s too simplistic.  It's a version of the theory that says the worse things are, the more likely people are to rise up in anger and defiance.  I think that people rise up when they have hope and a sense that they can have influence.  If things are very bad people become despairing and fatalistic and they withdraw. 

I do not accept the demorallzation that is going on, and yet, I do not hear the voices from the Democratic party countering the moral values hogwash. The failure to stand up for our right to vote is beyond the pale. And the excuses! Ha! That somehow it is more import to protect their blinking political futures, makes we want to scream.

I don't know the full story either on this candidate.

It's just whenever someone is pointing the blame at someone else to make themselves look good... that's politics.

"I do not accept the demorallzation that is going on, and yet, I do not hear the voices from the Democratic party countering the moral values hogwash."

The truth is, after being knocked down hard by this whole thing I am finally "inspired" to really get involved. I've voted. I've researched, but seeing my country slipping away and knowing that cumalitively it's been our fatalistic belief that all politicians lie anyway that created an apathy so great that bigger and bigger creeps rose up and got elected.

But like a lot of people I'm working one or two jobs to make ends meet and that doesn't leave a lot of energy for pursuing the truth when it's buried in the ladies knickers adds.

the torture in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, where we have been holding people for over 3 years without any formal charges?

What do they say about our troops that are now even more vunerable to torture themselves because we've broken the Geneva Convention rules ourselves? Was THAT fair to our troops?

I know everyone hurts. We've been betrayed, we've been lied to and it feels like every time we turn around Bush and his policies are raping us. OK I get it.

But people, come on. Are we little children who maybe didn't deserve to vote or are we Democrats - the best hope the U S of A has to rise above the Bushit and get to the business of taking our country back?

especially those who vote against their own interests deserve our pity and anger. The rich ones are just plain greedy and don't give a shit about anything if it makes them money.

Something along the lines of, "And you live with that stupid bitch?"

Her dad voted for Kerry... I don't understand how you can spend your life with someone so ignorant.

Most likely a Pro Lifer and that's a real hard one to get around. I'm sure if you find articles about all the children dead because of Bush, she'll know better next time.

Give your girlfriend Molly Ivin's book Bushwacked and have her read her mom the chapter about the kid who died in his mother's arms with his brain melting in his skull. Alex Donley. Clinton pushed a law through before he left to deal with the problem. Bush withdrew it.

fortunatly.

Remember, most people don't go searching for news online because they think the news media is actually telling them the truth (or most of it). Or they're too busy working, tending to kith and kin to search for it (it takes a lot of work to keep a house, raise children and work. I just know where to go online to read and that makes it easier.)

It's not that they're unsympathetic or don't understand - they aren't given the TOOLS they need to understand.

We have to reform the media. We have to BE the media. We have to show them our media sucks.

Then, we have to reform our elections.

Then, we have to run a campaign with a candidate who isn't picked by less than 2/3s of our majority.

I don't hate Bush people. I pity them. I pity me and my family because of them and their actions. But, I'm guessing most don't have a clue about what we know.

Now, for those who know and still support this regime - FUCK 'EM!

Except before we CAN find someone that strong we have to quit fighting among ourselves as Democrats and then look for the bi-partisan areas we can agree on.

OK - after all this can EVERYONE say,
"NO MORE TORTURE!"
"NO MORE BOMBING INNOCENT CIVILIANS and then BLAMING the HOSPITAL for reporting the truth."
"NO MORE SNEAKING Civil Rights Abuses into Appropriations Bills"

If repubs say they condone Torture, put them on a list of war criminals and post it everywhere we can. You know, make them accountable, but not in a childish way that makes it look like we have an axe to grind.

Do you agree?

Is people who are fighting for Democratic principles resorting to HATE Mongering.

Are you REALLY trying NOT to HATE them Kentuck or are you trying to whip up a frenzy of hatred to make yourself feel better?

A person doesn't necessarily have control of where there posts go, but look at what is happening here.

Please.

I gotta go. Be an adult and either get this thread under some semblence of Democratic principles or quit pretending to be holier than thou about it and admit your real agenda.

There is nothing worse than resorting to the ENEMY's tactics and creating a seperate set of rules to govern one's own behavior AS EVERYONE ON THIS POST SHOULD KNOW from living under the manipulating thumb of this administration.

and many people have deep resentment and anger toward those assholes that are driving our country to ruin and also those that defend them and are too weak-kneed to speak up about it.

But how does shouting back, "I HATE You!" set a tone for dialogue that can get us where we need to be?

Maybe it wasn't your intention, but think about it.

We are Democrats. We stand for things that have made this nation great. We have to be the "better man" just on principle because this republic is slanted toward the rich and powerful.

We HAVE to WALK the WALK with our Principles. If we say "Prejudice is wrong - it's wrong" no matter who is doing it.

As they said in the 60's, "It's like fucking for chastiy" only makes sense to a blonde.

If other people feel that way, they have a right to express it, in my opinion. It may not be very productive but it may therapeutic in some way or another to get it off their chests. Perhaps? Do you not feel any animosity or anger toward any of these Bush supporters? After what they have done and what they are doing to our country, how could anyone not be angry, at a minimum?

It isn't productive and we need to temper our feelings with reason.

God, yes, I feel animosity toward them. I'm just working on getting over it and I know when I was stuck in the ANGER mode or when I drop back into it, I can't think straight.

I'm still at a point where if Bush were on fire in the street I wouldn't piss on him to put him out.

But I'm not happy that I feel that way. It gives him more of me than I want him to have. My Democratic ideals are more important to me than my feelings.

I will not whore out my soul by giving Bush my hatred. He isn't worth it and I think less people voted for him than the machines spit out.

Do I ever.

But as long as THEY are the only ones who die in the next terrorist attacks on US soil due to bush's having made us all LESS SAFE now, then I suppose I could get over my animosity towards the dipshit asshole freepofascist assholes.

nephews get drafted.

I am very bitter toward them they voted for that asshole and now all of us have to suffer the consequences.

I hope the well-to-do lose their jobs to India, and the poor to Mexican immigrants. That's what they voted for. I hope they are drafted in fake wars because they voted for that, too.

To support Bush is to support evil, meaning lies, destruction,shild abuse, rape, murder, torture, theft, of course I feel animosity toward such people.

they aren't the only ones victimized.

them like the "good Germans" There'll be a future (hopefully in my life time) when they, their offsprimg will deny that little fact in history. "My dad one of them?You got it wrong, Sir. No, he was in anti-war protests"

the bigoted, the party loyal and the naive uninformed sheep who did this , not that I would consider anyone of them a friend, but I am somewhat bitter toward those who knew better, preaching to them, taking advantage of the blind faith, to skew the vote by saying a god would be displeased, it would be a sin to vote for kerry, and the wrath of the god is on your head if you do not vote for Bush.

I am bitter toward the MSM, who have gone completely down the selfish, unethical, hole, by not presenting truth,by pandering to an insane man and giving the finger to the people, in favor of their own self interest and financial security.

I am bitter at politicians who would allow it to go on, for it is certain now that all barriers to fascism and corruption are gone.

I am beginning to become bitter toward wealthy people--although I realize that may be a bit irrational, but there is some resentment brewing.

But the stupid jerks who are so easily swayed--I just look upon them as stupid.

by the right-wing media. Uninformed and ill-informed and too dumb to know the difference.

Simple as that. Bushevoters are not evil, they are just wrong. note bene that they think that we are just as dumb for voting Kerry as we think they are for voting Bush. America will survive, no matter who is right. It may suck for a few years, but we'll make out OK.

I find some of the comments on here troubling. Why is "red state" bigotry and stereotyping any more acceptable than racial bigotry and stereotyping?

Some of the rants I've seen on here could easily have come from David Duke with the simple change of "rethug" or "fundy" or ??? to "n*"...