You Can't Be a Democrat and Think the American People Are Stupid

[Tom Rinaldo]

There are a lot of things swimming around my head right now, as I try to make sense out of a disaster of an Election, but I keep coming back to: You can't be a Democrat and think the American people are stupid.

I've read a number of posts where pain is coming out, at least in part, as anger directed at some or all voters. When all is said and done, power either flows top down or bottom up. Republicans have most of the money and they own more of the "things" money can buy, like TV Stations. They command and control to get their way. We Democrats traditionally count on the people. We are the Party of Labor. Once we start blaming the people we have lost our moorings, or even worse, our political soul. We might as well become the intellectual bi-coastal elitist parody that the Republicans daily call us.

In rebuilding we should take responsibility for not delivering a message that resonates with enough of the people we claim to be speaking and fighting for. Perhaps we are missing something if our platform and priorities are failing to connect. We are the ones who usually say; Never blame the "victim", but even that is condescending. It is far too simplistic to argue that the public is being manipulated, too simple and too arrogant, and that is never the way to build bonds and grow support. Yes many of our opponents are doing their best to manipulate the public, but we can't be a party of excuses. Our opponents, for centuries, have tried to manipulate the people. When Democrats win it is because most of the people know in their gut that we will always stand with them against power, but even more central, that we are a reflection of them, not a separate interest looking for something from them.

You can't really be a Democrat if you think that the American people are stupid. A Stalinist, maybe, but not a traditional Democrat.

[Liberal Veteran]

1. I think they are gullible and easily manipulated.

Pure and simple.

[Dems Will Win]

34. THE ULTIMATE SOLUTION is in this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x16099

[Tweed]

2. Agreed, the American people aren't stupid, they are misinformed

The media in this country is terrible. Yes, people can search out for other media, but people tend to think that they are getting the best media by watching CNN, MSNBC, etc.

[saigon68]

28. WE HAVE TO BE THE VANGUARD of the PROLETARIAT

They simply need educating, the upcoming depression, with starvation, lack of medical care and no place to live will go a long ways in kicking these NeoCon bastards out once and for all.

[KittyWampus]

30. Agreed, But Arrogance & Insults Won't Win Anyone Over. Yes?

[nodehopper]

3. speak for yourself. maybe you can't but I can.

[MaineYooper]

4. not stupid maybe,

but definitely misinformed. (speaking from family experience)

Also intellectually lazy, and hence not willing to work to remedy their lack of information.

[realcountrymusic]

5. Right. And therefore

I guess I may not be a Democrat, at least not much longer. Because the thugs have certainly embraced the idea and learned to appeal to the stupidity of the people.

RCM

[bicentennial_baby]

6. Ok then, I'll switch parties

No skin off my nose. The American people proved last night how fucking stupid they are, and I'll tell anyone that asks.

[Zero Gravitas]

7. the 30% who voted for chimp are

at least one of: stupid, ignorant or delusional

(40% did not vote, 30% voted chimp, 29% voted Kerry)

[Droopy]

8. Stupid? No. Ignorant? Yes.

I don't think a lot of people fully understand elections and the issues on the table. Not out of stupidity, but just through a lack of information. I don't think that most people really research their vote.

[Tom Rinaldo]

9. I agree there's a big difference between ignorant and stupid

I used the word "stupid" in my post because it amazes me how some Democrat activists go on and on saying how stupid they think the American people are, and then are clueless when we get rejected for being "elitist". I'm sure many Republican operatives think Americans are stupid, but they keep that arrogance to themselves.

[msgeri55]

22. Ignorant! Yes!

and kept that way buy the press,our churches, and the dumbing down of our colleges.has anyone seen the street interviews by Jay Leno?We are all too busy trying to have a life,children,home,and retirement,who but the old folks has the luxury of time to ponder how to make that easier for the next generation.

[leftofthedial]

10. Maybe that's why I'm no longer a Democrat

Maybe Democrats can't win AS LONG AS THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE STUPID!

It's a lowest-common-denominator game. Democrats have erred by overestimating the intelligence of the Murkan public. They want gladiators and free bread and never mind squalor, poverty, no health care, a sustainable environment or peace. Well they got it.

[Village Idiot]

11. Listen:

An INCUMBENT was elected yesterday by people who thought that Saddam Hussein caused 9/11, Iraq sponsored terrorism and had WMD.

If 51% of Americans AREN'T stupid, I have yet to see proof.

[Zero Gravitas]

12. not 51%

the fascist Chimp got 51% of the votes cast, but 40% didn't vote. So its only 30% who supported him.

[Toucano]

15. Stop

You can put the 40% that didn't vote in with the stupid people who voted for Bush.

They didn't stop him, so they enabled his victory.

[Zero Gravitas]

21. I'm trying to be optimistic

We need to make the Democratic Party relevant to that 40%.

[Toucano]

27. I appreciate your effort.

But it isn't about "making the democratic party relevant".

The 40% that failed didn't vote failed to exercise their responsibility to defend the country against all enemies.

There is simply to excuse for it. This election was serious. The stakes were made clear by both sides. Draft the bench warmers first.

[pk_du]

14. Couldnt agree more

More ignorant than stupid..but more than a few have a mix of both

[UFL_LAW]

24. they are stupid, about 50%

eom

[Toucano]

13. Oh really? Watch me.

I feel sorry for them, and I want to help them. But the people who voted for Bush are stupid. They lack critical thinking skills.

[Generator]

16. I think you are right

That's why:

A) I'm a democrat

B) I believe the election was stolen

The other option is:

America is a stupid nation and there is no hope.

But, damn at this moment in time I was wrong about John Kerry. He hasn't stayed to fight, SO:

That's why the Democratic party has lost my vote for President forever. Next time I'm writing in my own name. I have as much chance being president as John Kerry, apparently.

Either fix this election or forget it. Do not tell me it's raining when I have the sun in my eyes.

John Stewart was right. We've been gaslighted.

[Skwmom]

17. I find extreme irony in anyone in the Democratic party calling

the American public stupid. It takes a real "genius" to lose against someone like Bush.

[jeff_thompson]

18. I agree, it's something of a conundrum....

...and I think stupidity is only one leg of the deadly triad: Stupidity, religious intolerance, and pure greed. But is a despot elected by a majority a good example of Democracy? I'm no expert, but something awful happended to America today, and it came at the hands of the American people.

[The Magistrate]

19. Hear Hear, Mr. Rinaldo!

The people are not nearly so stupid as they are given credit for in many quarters, and more importantly, they really do not like people who tell them they are stupid. People who value their pride will generally prefer to suffer being robbed than to suffer being talked down to....

"Americans looked into the abyss, and fifty-one percent said: 'Hmmm...I wonder what's down there....'"

[liberal N proud]

20. Here is what happened:

You can beat a moron, which bush is.
You can beat the media
You can beat an asshole like kkkarl rove
you can beat all the fucking money in the world
you can beat a neo-conservative agenda
you can beat the homophobes
you can beat big business

BUT: YOU CAN NOT BEAT ALL OF THEM WORKING AGAINST YOU IN UNISON.
That is what happened in this election.
Now we must wonder, what is the future?
-More wars, and Terrorism
-Coat Hangers in back alleys
-Fewer jobs that support families
-No Social Security
-Higher Energy costs
-More pollution
-Fewer Trees
Bend Over America, this is what you wanted

[Tom Rinaldo]

23. OK, I picked "fighting words" intentionally

Sure I think millions of Americans made a really "stupid" decision. And there are always some individuals who are more stupid than others, and vice versa. But Republican candidates make a living out of accusing Democrats of looking down at people. And we keep acting shocked that they get away with it. The public is not stupid, got it? The public equals "people". Fascists and aristocrats are the ones who think that "people" are stupid.

[Nordic]

25. Read my lips

The American people are stupid.

There.

If you don't at least have that sickening feeling in your stomach that you're being lied to WHEN YOU'RE BEING LIED TO you are stupid.

[Carni]

26. Oh yeah? Watch me--

They are stupid...50% of this country is totally devoid of common sense.

I am not talking about education levels. I am talking about cowardice and the inability to do anything but say how high when someone of perceived wealth, or greater *social standing* tells them to jump.

If that makes me something other than a Democrat to think that way then I guess I am guilty as charged.

[buddhamama]

29. and who the hell are you-

to determine who is and who is not a 'real' Democrat? The Bush voters were manipulated; fear and hatred drove the votes toward Bush. And, they're stupid if they'd voted against their own best interests.

[Tom Rinaldo]

32. Read my post #23

Ever notice that threads drop off the page almost immediately if they aren't shouting an opinion? I wanted to see what people had to say about this, so I wrote it the way I did. I will tell you this. I have been a professional community organizer, I have run mental health programs, I have operated my own business. People always sense when you don't have much respect for them. A door knocker can do more harm than good if they don't do a check on their own attitudes.

[buddhamama]

35. ohh,

i am very impressed with your 'experience'. respect is earned and mutual- my momma taught me when i was a little girl. you're mistaking civility for respect. it's not the same thing. btw, i own a business.

[Stuckinthebush]

31. So, the American people are wise?

Is that the position to take if you are a Democrat?

I just don't see it. Sorry.

[sui generis]

33. bullshit - (and I say that conversationally)

There is clearly a cultural divide in our country that involves this bizarre adherence to fundamental "values". It falls predominantly along the dividing line between big cities and the the non-urban areas as people in smaller towns and communities aren't readilly exposed to different cultural inputs.

The fact is that half of America has a cultural agenda that involves being deeply moved by 15 second soundbites, aggressive selfishness, xenophobia and harsh judgemental and prejudicial behaviors.

They make claim to being a majority, and now absurdly, will make claim to being a majority with a mandate. Most specifically, many people were swayed to vote by having same-sex marriage on the ballot, without considering how profoundly hateful the result is to their fellow Americans, and in fact, they feel like they've done some good in the world.

Why are they that way? Is ignorance and lack of empathy the same thing as stupidity? At this point I think it's just nuance. My aging next door neighbors who have known me and my partner for 12 years, whose cats I have rescued out of trees, whose dogs I have rounded up, whom I have driven to the hospital, raked their leaves and to whom I have been a spectacular boy scout, are deeply opposed to "gay marriage" and "civil unions", but think it's quite all right that we're gay and nice boys.

Call it what you want, that's stupid. And if they only reason people like that vote is on issues like that and because of ignorance, whether willful or intentional, it's still stupid.

I don't think we SHOULD appeal to those people, especially because the more extreme among them love to hate and proselytize. We didn't fail because we failed to appeal to them. We failed because we have principles and because we didn't rig this election, prevent people from getting to the polls, "lose" hundreds of thousands of registrations and absentee ballots, or lie through our teeth over and over to scare the stupid sheep into voting for us. We had to hold our fire to save the village, and I think we are better people for it than the ones who would have destroyed the village in order to save it.

[WillyT]

36. ROFLMAO !!!

Most TV shows are written at the 6th or 7th grade reading levels, as are most newspapers, if I'm remembering correctly.

But you are correct...

Americans aren't stupid, they're just intellectually challenged!

And they're just too stupid to know it!!!

:evilgrin:

[amazona]

37. not to cite Dan Quayle or anything but...

...by definition half of the people are of less than average intelligence. There are a lot of stupid people who are not capable of distinguishing in any real sense between right and wrong. You can teach them to act in a certain way because of the consequences, social pressure, etc. but they will never have the moral intelligence to feel empathy for another person. There are a lot of people like that. All you can do is program these people. Unfortunately, the fundamentalist hysterics have gotten in there and programmed them to hate gays, women, etc. You cannot appeal to their logic or sense of decency because they have none, only peer pressure.

The only way to deal with those people is to go back to a society where it is not acceptable to spout religious hysteria or Rush Limbaugh style racist extremism in public. You have to create a society where, to fit in, they actually have to behave decently to women, gays, minorities, blah blah blah. Hate speech must become socially unacceptable and have real consequences. We are only just beginning to start down that path, really.

We need to make sure that the hatriots pay a price -- and a high price -- for spouting hate. As we don't have the type of laws that allow Germany to ban Nazi hate literature and speech, we have to take another tack. I think at the very least we should insist that the hatriots obey the same standards they hold up for us. Why are we not screaming and protesting every day that Rush Limbaugh is not in prison for procuring illegal drugs and diverting medicine meant for people in severest pain?

[Tom Rinaldo]

44. "...a society where it is not acceptable to spout religious hysteria"

I agree with most if not all of your post. I think the vast majority of people in all societies don't want to be bothered trying to sort out right from wrong most of the time. I think that is typical human nature. If that makes humanity "stupid", so be it. Maybe wolves really ARE smarter. But I don't see the point in saying people are stupid. They are what they are. Brilliant people can be dead wrong. I think Dick Cheney is probably brilliant. The comedian Dennis Miller I suspect has a high IQ also. People with "below average" intelligence often show greater common sense than egotistical smart asses.

Sure, of course half of the population will always be below average, but that doesn't mean Democratic voters are all of the above average intelligence people and Republicans voters are all of the below average intelligence people. There are a whole lot of self serving bright people who are Republicans. There are intelligent true believers in the free market over other possible social models. There are bright religious people who oppose abortion, there are smart military people who in the past felt unappreciated by many Democratic activists etc. etc. So each Party has above and below average intelligence voters supporting them in any given election.

I think your main point is the key. Democrats have been out maneuvered by Republicans at reinforcing certain social values (such as tolerance), over others (such as "defending your own kind"). Public perceptions on issues like Civil Rights and the equal opportunities for Women, have moved back and forth over recent decades in America, while the basic intelligence of people has not changed. When the Bill of Rights is explained, defined, and promoted as the greatest invention of American democracy, something to be very proud of that makes our nation better than other nations, support for the right of protest goes up strongly across the board. When it is defined as a cover for letting wild eyed non conformists destroy cherished traditional American Institutions, people are willing to cut the hell out of it.

[markus]

38. We have met the enemy....

I don't think that DUers are stupid, except in posts in which they posit the voters are stupid.

Ok, well, I wonder about South Dakota. North Dakota managed to re-elect their Senator and Congressman while going 70% for Bush and 75% for the gay gas chamb, uh, I mean the Marriage Amendment. I just don't get that.

I do, however, think that the leadership of our party are all a lot of f---ing morons, and has been for a while.

They just don't get it, even as they are locked out of the real legislative discussions and the conference committees. These people are done with us, as far as they are concerned. They look at us as an inconvient obstacle to the second coming.

Accomodation with them is stupidity of the worse sort.

[hiphopnation]

39. right....me = not a democrat

thanks for clearing that up!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

40. How about "willfully ignorant"?

Anybody who voted for Bush based on the insipid flagwaving crappola dished out by him, is certainly not paying attention.

[slackmaster]

41. In the J/PS forum we have a name for people who think Americans are stupid

We call them "Canadians".















































<ducking, running for cover>

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

43. Count yourself fortunate.

Wish I was one.

[slackmaster]

47. One what? And what's so damn fortunate about me?

Other than money, brains, and good looks, of course.

[GreenArrow]

42. Well, the American people are ignorant.

How's that then? Selfish? Provincial? Narrow minded? Bigoted? Shallow?

Willfull ignorance is a sign of something approximating stupidity, IMO.

[enki23]

45. well, that would be silly.

because, after all, the american people *are* stupid.

[Democracy Died 2004]

46. ok call me stalin then. And i don't think

they are stupid only. They are asswipes mostly.

[formernaderite]

48. Sure you can.....

...especially if you're out to alienate all those people the elites call "rednecks". I went blue collar about ten years ago....even with my progressive "green" views I'm totally accepted by my peer group. I also respect their views....regardless of what they are. Respect is not the same as agree with...and either many democrats were not brought up on these "old fashioned" values or we've forgotten the lessons our parents taught us. I tend to have frank non-combative discussions over a beer that tend towards resolutions. But hey...what could rednecks in a bar possibly want to talk about....right?