Look, people. WE are part of the problem.

[TwilightZone]

Shit, look at this place. We lose an election and the first thing we do is damn our candidate (and just about every other Democrat, living or dead) to hell. Everybody gets the blame - Kerry, Edwards, the DLC, McAuliffe, Daschle, Gore, blah, blah, fucking blah.

The Republicans do one thing well: they fuck us over as ONE organization. They stay relentlessly on message.

They do not fracture into a bunch of little sub-parties at the first sign of trouble.

They do not eat their own because they are disappointed.

They do not overestimate the intelligence of the American voters.

They do not jump ship because the other side knew the rules and how to bend/break/demolish them better than they did.

And, lastly, they do not jump up and down with glee because the Senate leader OF THEIR OWN FUCKING PARTY went down to defeat. I cannot BELIEVE the number of DU people posting utter pleasure with the fact that Daschle lost last night.

We need to get a grip. If all we're going to do is blame each other, we're going nowhere. And THAT is unacceptable, even more so than the ludicrous results of this "election".

Yes, it is very likely that this election was stolen. Regardless of whether it was or not, QUIT BLAMING US FOR IT. Blame the media. Blame the Rove machine. Blame the 58,000,000+ idiots who voted for a chimp in a flight suit.

But, damn it, Kerry did the best he could. He's a fucking hero, regardless of the outcome of this race. He won every debate. He raised a gazillion dollars. He's represented liberal ideals his entire political career.

Yes, it hurts like hell that he's going to concede, but that changes NOTHING about who he has been the past 30 years. It changes NOTHING about the race he ran. It changes NOTHING about what we believe in.

He is doing what HE thinks is best for our country and our party. Right or wrong, agree or disagree, he believes that he's doing it for us.

Now, we need to do what is best for us, as well. We need to evaluate what the hell just happened and make sure that it NEVER happens again.

We need to continue to work on getting widespread, public scrutiny of electronic voting. The current process is ridiculously unacceptable. Part of the problem with demanding accountability in this election is that THERE ISN'T ANY. No paper trail, no proof.

We need to begin planning/working on '06 races NOW. We need to evaluate the strategies that worked and those that didn't.

We need to determine if yes, in fact, it is going to take a Southern Democrat to win the presidency, and then, by God, we need to find one that can win in '08!

Lastly, we have to face the reality that the country IS becoming more conservative. Stealing Ohio is one thing. Stealing several Senate and House races is quite another. If we are to be competitive, it is becoming terribly obvious that we MUST find a way to appeal to moderates and, heaven forbid, a few conservatives.

First, stop the blame game. Eating our own is never going to help.

Rant over.

[Arkana]

1. I'm not blaming Kerry--he was a fantastic candidate

I blame the stupidity of the American people.

[psunitlions1]

2. right on!!! kick!!!

!

[ShaneGR]

3. Yeah, the Daschle stuff amazed me...

Could you imagine gleeful freepers gloating if Bill Frist went down?

[JI7]

7. also

you don't see them calling arnold schwarsznegger and giuliani traitors to their party for being prochoice. they use them for all they can. including reaching out to moderate voters.

[TwilightZone]

16. Yeah, or the VP, for that matter.

For not jumping on the anti-gay bandwagon.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

9. Actually, they were quite pissed that Spector won.

Even in victory, they will eat one of their own.

[ciaobox]

4. I agree. We took the "High Road"

I love Clinton. His "High Road" is bullshit. We need to steal as many votes as they do in every election just to level the playing field. You have to cheat to compete.

[GRLMGC]

5. Agreed

The fact that we are so splintered is the reason we don't win elections. Weren't we supposedly more united than ever during this election? Apparently not.

[venus]

6. DU has a lot of ignorant kids as posters that's all. We

are supposed to be mature thinking individuals but no....

Great post by the way.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

8. I love the guy. I am angry at him for throwing in the towel in the face of

all the fraud...

[TwilightZone]

14. Really, I agree. But, remember who we're talking about here.

Kerry does NOTHING on a whim. In fact, he's been blasted as being too considerate, too deliberate, too reflective.

Do not believe that he did this without some serious reflection and without some serious consideration. He MUST have solid, solid evidence that this is the only choice at this time. He's not one to just end it without knowing that it's inevitable.

And do not believe that he doesn't feel just as bad as we do.

[davepc]

10. if you don't look at why you lost

you'll repeat the same mistakes over and over and over again.

How many more elections without winning a single southern state is it going to take to make us realize as a party that we're hopelessly out of touch with a HUGE portion of the country and need to take some serious steps to get back into the game?

doing a post mortem and a lessons learned is not the blame game.

We have to seriously re-evaluate our positions as we approach a good portion of the electorate and try and get them to vote for us again.


I cant just say its the republicans fault and leave it at that. Its OUR fault we lost, we didn't convince enough of them to vote for US.

[RinaJ]

15. Absolutely

That's the thing that's most troubling to me, how little progress we made in red states. Also, I'm as pissed off at fundies as anyone, but blaming Christianity as a whole does nothing but alienate those people even more, as well as more conservative Democrats.

Whether you're an athiest, a Jew, Muslim, whatever, we have to confront the reality that this IS what a large segment of America is. It's not unsalvagable. But you can't just rip them down, and then expect them to vote for our candidate come election time.

[RinaJ]

11. Great Post

We should be thinking about what we're going to do next, not ripping each other apart. And the Daschle thing appalled me, too. Whatever you think about him, he was another filabuster vote in the Senate that's now gone.

[Ripley]

12. Kerry is not a God. He made mistakes.

He was extremely slow and too little in his response to Swift Boat Liars. If you can't admit that as smart as he is and great on the issues as he was, yet he fucked it up since he couldn't beat the stupidest President in the history of our country in the middle of about 4 national disasters: war, economy, energy crisis and health care...

Yeah, I know the repukes are dirty players. But anybody should have beaten this asshole by a lot larger margin. Why was Kerry having to fight so damn hard to win traditionally blue states?

[sangh0]

23. Read the OP to answer your question

Why was Kerry having to fight so damn hard to win traditionally blue states?

[dmr]

13. I'm ready to keep fighting

we have to work hard to get the Dems in the Senate and House in 2006 and in 2008.

We have to work hard to put Dems in as many state's legislative body.

We have to work hard to take the White House in 2008

We have to continue to work hard to keep ourselves abreast of each and every move the Bush* machine is doing.

I'm not giving up. I refuse. I'm sick at heart right now, as is everyone else here. I think we need to give people time to grieve.

In the meantime, trust that the Republicans are already working on the above for their party. I refuse to let them continue to win. It's the fight of our lives.

[TwilightZone]

17. kick

```

[TwilightZone]

18. ..

--

[high density]

19. Can't we be pissed off and angry for a couple of days?

I'm glad some people are able to take the "high road" all the time, but I'm not able to do that yet.

[TwilightZone]

20. Hell yes, be angry!! I am NOT suggesting otherwise.

What I am suggesting is that the target of much of our anger is misplaced.

[WildEyedLiberal]

22. AMEN, THANK YOU!

You just said EXACTLY what I've been saying.

I am furious at Bush, Rove, etc.

I am FURIOUS at the stupid fucking American people.

I have nothing but respect and admiration and sorrow for John Kerry. I still feel like this man would be one of the best presidents we ever might have. What went down last night = NOT HIS FAULT. He'll still be in the Senate, and you bet your ass he'll be fighting hard. He's been a figher his whole life. He took on Iran-Contra and BCCI against massive opposition. He would've taken on Bush if he'd had a glimmer of hope. He knows more than we do. Obviously he knew that litigation would be fruitless and accomplish nothing, and that he wasn't going to win. Face it, guys: they won/stole this election. And no lawsuit is going to change that. Kerry will fight the Bush junta in the Senate, and all the naysayers will owe him an apology.

Democrats lose because they are unable to fullt support their own party. Until this changes, we will continue to lose. I will not blame John Kerry, a good honorable man. I will work like hell to support him and all the other Dems who NEED OUR SUPPORT to bring the neocons down.

[sangh0]

24. Yes you can, but who does it help besides yourself?

And if the answer is "no one", then why should I care about your being selfish?

[ROakes1019]

21. Going Forward

Like everyone else here, I am heartsick about the election results. By nature, I wilt in the face of adversity and I sometimes wonder whether that isn't part of why I'm a Democrat, not that Democrats are wimpy or quiters but that the very thing that makes us Democrats is the best part about us and the what makes us vulnerable--we see both sides to things, we aren't generally dogmatic, we believe in social justice and, if we hate anything, we hate injustice. But I've been thinking about this--nobody gives over power or even justice (unless he/she is a Democrat) willingly. Look at how long African-American suffered injustice and fought(albeit by passive resistence) for equal rights, and fight still today. Everyday is a struggle for justice here at home or elsewhere in the world. I've heard that the Republicans planned the coup in 2000 for eight years at least and probably before that, going back to Goldwater. Democrats have to get organized and be ready to work for as long as it takes to overturn the Republican machine. Can we be that ruthless, given that what we cherish is love and harmony and, yes, justice? I think we will have to realize that for the future of our country and our children, we might have to stop being so nice, so accommodating, so bipartisan.

It just might be that Americans haven't really suffered enough the consequences of having the Bush regime in power. The upside of this is that now they will have to do something about the mess they've made of things. What the hell is going to become of Iraq? How many severe tax cuts can this government take and continue to function? Here is a small hope--there are some true conservative Republicans, who believe in the virtues of fiscal discipline and even social justice. Maybe they will have be the ones to rein in this corrupt administration since they have even more power in all branches of government. The Supreme Court situation is troubling but even if Reinquest has to retire, he's a conservative anyway and replacing him with another won't change much in the Court. I believe we still have enough Senate representation to prevent cloture on extreme judicial nominees. Maybe one or two of the Repub senators, like Chafee or Snow, will go Independent or at least refuse to be coerced into doing irreparable ill to the country.

As for pushing a Democrat who can take the South, we might have to give up too much that is dear to us. I, personally, could never become an evangelical or pretend to be one. But I do think we have as many, or more, people in our party who are truly "Christian" in deed if not in name. Someone in the Kerry camp, maybe Kerry himself, said he thought Bush's faith-based social programs are good. Perhaps they are, if amended so a recpient wouldn't have to profess a particular belief.

I haven't posted here very often, although I read the other posts regularly and I feel like a member of this group. I'm trying to discipline myself not to fold and sneak away like a thief in the night. I'm trying to gird myself up for the noble struggle ahead. I hope other Democrats are also.

[UpsideDownFlag]

25. it just really didn't help that he conceded so quickly

but i agree with the content of your post.

[sangh0]

26. Yes, everyone has their own, individual reason

for why it's OK for THEM to criticize. And even when we agree that our dissension isn't good for us, we still have to have our say and complain about the inconvenient timing of his concession, even though THAT doesn't change one damned thing.

bush* just stole a 2nd election, after getting us into a disastrous war and wrecking our economy.

But, but, but "Kerry should have waited to concede". That just had to be said.

[UpsideDownFlag]

30. do you think it was appropriate of him to concede?

given all the fraud claims, all over america? or are you targeting my post because you have a habit of doing so? this is the acrimony forum, in case you didnt notice. its purpose is to express our anguish and unhappiness.

[sangh0]

31. Do you think The Fonz should have water skied over that shark?

The answer to that question will as much good as the answers to yours. REGARDLESS of what I think, it does no one any good to discuss it publicly.

[UpsideDownFlag]

34. i think the fonz was the man.

and jumping over sharks was the right thing to do.

[sangh0]

35. Yeah, but shouldn't he have waited?

.

[tedzbear]

27. No. The Democratic Party is the problem. We need a third party.

The Greens, Naders, socialists, etc. should unite.

:mad:

[GreenPartyVoter]

28. We need multiple parties, ranked voting, clean elections etc. No way

a mere two parties can represent the vast spectrum of ideologies.

-----------------------------------------------------------
FIGHT! Take this country back one town and state at a time!
http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/electionreform.htm

[Sirveri]

32. The system isn't built for a viable third party.

When a viable third party comes in, it splits the votes and then either the party it split the most votes with withers and dies, or it tries to merge or assimilate the other party.

MEANWHILE, we lose our majority in the senate and house while the party gets torn to pieces. Because the repukes are too damned well organised and they've heavily brainwashed their idiotic constituency that hardly any of them will break party line.

[Julien Sorel]

33. Hey, there's 1% of the electorate right there.

A powerful force in national politics.

[sundog]

29. Thanks... good post -- I don't want to see this divide & conquer us...

we have to stay unified & move on swiftly to the next battle.

The Democratic Party built a stronger base over these last 4 years.

Grieve today... re-organize, re-inspire & re-mobilize tomorrow :hi: