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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 03:25 PM
Original message
"Old Time" Republicans versus "End Times" Republicans.
Seems every time we open a thread here at DU there is another story of an old-fashioned Republican slamming Bush and the End Times Republicans for ruining their country and their party.

Good.

Let's help push this storyline.
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whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
1. Need a common thread or a list of links
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 03:29 PM
Response to Original message
2. Nice catch phrase!
:thumbsup:
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Yeah. I'm gonna phone it in to my local paper's Talk Back line.
heheh...maybe Kerry campaign will be smart enough to use it.
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wurzel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
3. It is time Republicans took their party back!
"They need a Republican from the Republican wing of the Republican Party."
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MsTryska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
5. Excellent turn of a phrase....
that's exactly it...Old Time GOP versus End Time GOP.

And i never thought i'd say this, but i miss the old-time gop.


here's an excellent DU article on it:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/articles/04/10/14_...
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. I wish Goldwater and Ike were around today to kick some End Timers' ASS.
.
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MsTryska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. nah We don't want Goldwater.....
he's the start of this mess.

Ike, definitely, even Prescott Bush. I would bet money, that if he were alive today, he would nopt be voting for his grandson. On principle.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Goldwater said he'd be classified a liberal with this new party.
He was very much for gay rights. He hated the hard right turn on social issues, and spoke up about it.

For that, I give him props.
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MsTryska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Okay...yeah i can grant you that....
that's a good point. and again, i guess it shows the vast difference between what used to be conservative, and what is currently neo-conservative.
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bunkerbuster1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Old time repubs kept us honest.
They had (have) some good ideas. They were (are) fun to debate.

End timers, well, they just creep me out.

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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Even some Constitutionalists are looking at liberals as allies in the
battle against the Bushes. Many see Bush as the end of the Constitution and the beginning of a monarchy.


DON'T TREAD ON ME

means:

NO KING GEORGE!
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RichardRay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 04:45 PM
Response to Original message
11. What the old timers wanted vs the new idiots
The old timers were conservatives: they believed that you had to get order and sercurity in order to get equity and justice. Us liberals believe that we have to get justice and equity in order to create order and security.

The 'End Times' modern R's have moved away from that to domination, so they're hard to talk to.

Richard Ray - Jackson Hole, WY
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AirAmFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 05:11 PM
Response to Original message
12. You're really onto something here. You've captured GHW Bush and his
idiot son, down to the essentials!

One kind of Republican cares only about money, and yearns to repeat the Reagan flim-flam, when the very rich got their income tax rates lowered from 70 percent to 28 percent, at the expense of working people.

The other kind has been brainwashed into doing the bidding of the first kind, just like a Moonie. That kind of Republican focuses on key phony issues like 'God, guns, gays, and partial-birth abortion', which legislation could not really affect, and therefore would never cost much tax money.

Coalitions usually entail many frictions, but this one is strangely one-sided. You never hear 'end-time Republicans' complain about 'old-time Republicans', just like you never hear Moonies ask where all the money goes.
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ThoughtCriminal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
14. Give the that End Time Religion!
Give them that End Time Religion!
Give them that End Time Religion!
It was good Enough for Koresh
It's good enough for Them!
.
.
.
More verses?
O8)
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. heheh....
good one....

write something and send it to Air Am
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rockydem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 06:36 PM
Response to Original message
16. excellent framing of the issue
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snippy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
17. Excellent phrase. Regardless of the outcome of this election,
in the next several years the democratic party needs to work on making every American understand this distinction and on creating a schism in the republican party that results in the Old Time Republicans either taking back control of their party or leaving it. It is especially important that democrats start this relatively soon so that it can have an impact on state legislative races in the years leading up to the next Congressional redistricting.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. No doubt. I want the OLD Republican party back.
.
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AirAmFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. You've just proved what end-timesers often say: 'See? Nixon was a
LIBERAL'!
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bunkerbuster1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. As someone over at the Atrios blog pointed out
...can you imagine W. leaving the White House, alone, to wander among 100,000 war protesters at 4am to talk to them and try to understand what was pissing them off, as Nixon did?

I know. It sounds like science fiction, doesn't it?
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 07:21 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. Nixon never thought he was a King governing by Divine Right.
He was whacked...but nowhere NEAR as whacked or as EVIL as the dictatortot.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #24
36. After being out of office for awhile, he got unwhacked.
War is an option whose time has passed. Peace is the only option for the future. At present we occupy a treacherous no-man's-land between peace and war, a time of growing fear that our military might has expanded beyond our capacity to control it and our political differences widened beyond our ability to bridge them. . . .

Short of changing human nature, therefore, the only way to achieve a practical, livable peace in a world of competing nations is to take the profit out of war.

--RICHARD M. NIXON, "REAL PEACE" (1983)

Did Kucinich ever channel him, I wonder?
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NinetySix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Absolutely.
The Old-Time Republicans were willing to compromise, while this new group of NeoCons view politics as a zero-sum game. The talk of 'destroying the Democratic Party once and for all' that sometimes makes an appearance on the other side has no analog on our side. Those people really view this as a war, and they're determined to be the victors. We just want our democracy back.

Remember the statesman Dole used to be in the Senate as Majority Leader? Granted, we didn't always agree with him, but he used compromise as a tool of democracy just as generations of Senators and Congressmen before him. Despite his recent, well, whoring, his career in the Senate was a distinguished one. Look at Trent Lott and Bill Frist, the two latest Senate Majority Leaders, and ask yourself who you'd rather have, them or Dole, and you'll understand me on this point.

It would be wonderful to get back to the old system of politics, its many flaws notwithstanding, if it were only possible to get away from the politics of attack, smear, win at any cost.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Warren Rudman type Republicans. Ones who CARE about their country first
before their party.
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Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #18
26. Hell I want the old Democratic party back. Oh well one fight at a time.
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MsTryska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. I don't.
Well maybe a roosevelt and a kennedy, but i can do without the segragationists.
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Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. How about FDR?
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MsTryska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. Yup!
FDR and JFK are allowed.
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Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. Exactly our next job is to get a pol working in the PEOPLE's interest F
the Corporate Parasites. After we kick out the Radical Right that is.
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MsTryska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. Uh oh....in that case, we're gonna need
Teddy Roosevelt. Actually he would have been a good pres, even if he was a republican, for this time.



He was tough on big business, good for the environment, and walked softly carrying a big stick.
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Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. Or Che we need the people to demand this Fascist crap stop NOW We Will
not be scared into voting against our best interests. F Wall Street Come on Main Street.
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secular_warrior Donating Member (705 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 09:00 PM
Response to Original message
22. The old Republicans were "responsible libertarians",
which some may not agree with but they were basically principled and loved their country.

These new Republicans beginning with Reagan are Christiano-fascist imperialist hatemongers. They are anti-American thugs, criminals and bullies who don't respect the rules or anyone who opposes them. There is nothing mainstream or traditional about them. Every American - regardless of political party - has a duty to kick this crew out of power and restore democracy.
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kori Donating Member (141 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 07:58 AM
Response to Original message
25. Maybe this will help
These are statements made by Republicans or former Bush supporters. Some who now enthusiastically support Kerry, some who can only bring themselves not to vote for Bush.

John Eisenhower:

Sen. Kerry, in whom I am willing to place my trust, has demonstrated that he is courageous, sober, competent, and concerned with fighting the dangers associated with the widening socio-economic gap in this country. I will vote for him enthusiastically.

I celebrate, along with other Americans, the diversity of opinion in this country. But let it be based on careful thought. I urge everyone, Republicans and Democrats alike, to avoid voting for a ticket merely because it carries the label of the party of ones parents or of our own ingrained habits.

John Eisenhower, son of President Dwight D. Eisenhower, served on the White House staff between October 1958 and the end of the Eisenhower administration. From 1961 to 1964 he assisted his father in writing The White House Years, his Presidential memoirs. He served as American ambassador to Belgium between 1969 and 1971. He is the author of nine books, largely on military subjects

http://www.theunionleader.com/articles_showa.html?artic...

Former Republican Gov. of Michigan William Milliken:

William Milliken endorsed Democratic Sen. John Kerry for president on Monday, saying President Bush has pursued policies "pandering to the extreme right wing."

Milliken, governor from 1969-82, accused the Bush administration of rushing into the Iraq war, pushing tax cuts that benefit the rich and blocking meaningful stem-cell research.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20041...

Former California Republican Congressman Pete McCloskey

"Ending secrecy and bringing truth and honesty back to the White House are reasons enough to elect Kerry and Edwards."

http://inprogress.typepad.com/republicanswitchers /

Former Minnesota Governor Elmer L. Anderson

This imperialistic, stubborn adherence to wrongful policies and known untruths by the Cheney-Bush administration -- and that's the accurate order -- has simply become more than I can stand.

http://inprogress.typepad.com/republicanswitchers /

Former Republican Congressman from Georgia Bob Barr:

Throughout my own presidential voting history, the choices have rarely, if ever, been agonizing. Nixon vs. McGovern? Carter vs. Reagan? Reagan-Mondale? Dukakis, a Massachusetts liberal? Clinton? Al Gore? Ah, the good ol' days. Each of those races presented clear choices, easily resolved.

Now we have the election of 2004. For the first time in my voting life, the choice in the race for president isn't so clear And, among true conservatives, I'm not alone.

Bush's problem is that true conservatives remember their history. They recall that in recent years when the nation enjoyed the fruits of actual conservative fiscal and security policies, a Democrat occupied the White House and Congress was controlled by a Republican majority that actually fought for a substantive conservative agenda.

http://atlanta.creativeloafing.com/2004-10-07/news_flan...

Former White House Counsel John Dean

"Clearly, it is an impeachable offense," he says. "I think the case is overwhelming that these people presented false information to the Congress and to the American people."

http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20030606.html

Staunch conservative Columnist Charley Reese

I will swallow a lot of petty policy differences...to get a man in the White House with brains enough not to blow up the world and us with it.

http://inprogress.typepad.com/republicanswitchers /

There are many more prominent Republicans switching. I can not remember this level of defection of known party supports, not even with the Reagan Democrats.

For more information check out these sites:

http://inprogress.typepad.com/republicanswitchers /

http://www.errolmorris.com/html/election04/election04_m...

http://www.republicansforkerry.org /

http://www.republicansforkerry04.org /

http://www.johnkerry.com/communities/republicans /


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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #25
37.  Nice collection. A couple of more--
http://www.lewrockwell.com/reese/reese74.html


"People who think of themselves as conservatives will really display their stupidity, as I did in the last election, by voting for Bush. Bush is as far from being a conservative as you can get. Well, he fooled me once, but he won't fool me twice. It is not at all conservative to balloon government spending, to vastly increase the power of government, to show contempt for the Constitution and the rule of law, or to tell people that foreign outsourcing of American jobs is good for them, that giant fiscal and trade deficits don't matter, and that people should not know what their government is doing. Bush is the most prone-to-classify, the most secretive president in the 20th century. His administration leans dangerously toward the authoritarian."
- - Charlie Reese


http://www.sierratimes.com/04/10/20/carlworden.htm

That's it, I've had it.

I've been a registered Republican since I pulled my first lever in a voting booth, and I've voted as a loyal Republican for Republican candidates consistently every year. I am 55 years of age. I am considered a right-wing Christian conservative and strict constitutionist who knows the Framers of the Constitution expected strict adherence to that original document unless and until it is amended.

You don't get much more conservative and constitutionally-minded than I am, and that is why I just cast my Oregon vote-by-mail ballot for Democrat John Kerry as the next president of the United States. So did my wife -- and she's a very independent thinker. I know there are thousands of lifelong Republican/Independent conservatives who are going to do the same thing on November 2nd, because they've written and told me so.

Three local teachers got tickets to the Bush rally, passed all the security checkpoints and scrutiny and got in. They never created or caused a disturbance, and they were perfectly peaceful members of the audience waiting to hear Bush speak. But before they got to hear Bush, they were expelled from the rally by Bush rally staff who objected to the words printed on the T-shirts they were wearing.
No, the words on the T-shirts the ladies were wearing did not disparage Bush, nor did they suggest support for Kerry or any other candidate. The words did not condemn or support the war in Iraq, nor did they slam any Administration policy. No, the T-shirts the three women wore showed an American flag, and under it the words, "Protect Our Civil Liberties". That was all -- I kid you not.

That was it. That was the last straw for me. That was the defining moment I'll never forget. That was my epiphany.

Bryan Platt, Chairman of the Jackson County Republican Central Committee, said he stood 100 percent behind the person who made the decision to exclude the women, removing any doubt that one or two individuals exceeded their authority and blew it. No, it was solid, Republican neo-conservative fascist policy on open display, and the Brown Shirts weren't about to apologize for it. No way.
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Wapsie B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
28. There's a lot of disagreement in the gop.
Heck, they can't even agree on their city of origin.
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nightperson Donating Member (550 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
33. I've pushed this storyline for a long, long time.
Edited on Fri Oct-22-04 02:39 PM by secondtermdenier
Anyone can search my old posts and find tons of stuff along these lines, though I should refrain from saying "Ask me anything!" :crazy: .

"The only way Americans will have a presidency in which neoconservatives and the Christian Armageddon set are not holding the reins of power is if Kerry is elected."- Conservative Scott McConnell.

Here is a link I have not posted before.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. Let's keep pushing. I used it a few times today with some media types.
.
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nightperson Donating Member (550 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-04 11:02 AM
Response to Original message
38. Bump bump.
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