Could I get your opinions of what happened on 9/11?

[Jack from Charlotte]

I have read this board for years but never really understood nor bothered to look at different theories.

So I wonder if some could give me a succinct 2 to 5 sentence explanation of what they think happened.

Please don't give me lists of links and 20page deals, but just something like the following:

"19, mostly Saudi guys hijacked 4 commercial airplanes. 2 of them were flown into the 2 World Trade Center buildings causing their collapse and 3,000 deaths. One crashed in Pennsylvania, likely due to a revolt of the passengers that thwarted the plan to attack The US Capital Building. One was flown into the Pentagon killing it's passengers and several hundred DOD employees."

or perhaps...

"4 planes were hijacked by agents of someone. 2 were flown into the WTC buildings and one was crashed in PA. But one was crashed in The Atlantic Ocean while the agents had a missile strike the Pentagon in order to whip up hate for someone."

Help me here and keep it short.

[Pacifist Patriot]

1. No problem. I can keep it really short for you.

I have no clue. :)


Now if you want a slightly longer version....
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=89192&mesg_id=89192

[rman]

2. without going into specifics

It was a Black Op a la Operation Northwoods (though more extensive). Wargames going on that day caused most of the air defense to be occupied elsewhere and caused confusion. Atta et all are patsies.

[Jack from Charlotte]

5. Sorry for the ignorance... explain please.....

"Black Ops?" Northwoods? What did war games have to do with this? Atta et al are patsies? Explain like above examples.

Thanks in advance.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bushwick Bill]

11. About the patsies.

I put together a post here of why I think it was an inside job overall.
http://www.spartantailgate.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1656119&postcount=2
If you go down to the material about the hijackers, they had some contacts with military installations. Guys like Atta were not "Al Qaeda" religious fanatics, they were probably some type of government assets doing unsavory things like running drugs. I agree with rman that the wargames are huge because they ruined any adequate fighter response. But, from a more internal perspective, I think the patsies and possibly even some of the crews and passengers (there are some weird Raytheon links there) thought they were involved in some type of terror drills on those plans. Heck, some of them could have thought the drills involved the planes being landed safely by remote control in response to hijackings. So, you have a bunch of elements participating in what they think is a drill, they get crossed up, and boom...the planes are crashed. Either that, or these pilots actually had some sick skills and were not amateurs or flunkies. The bottom line is, I will never accept that a guy who was denied the opportunity to rent a single engine Cessna a month before 9/11 because he was such a bad pilot flew that 757, regardless of what you think hit the building.
http://www.physics911.net/sagadevan.htm
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article12571.htm

But, you don't even have to get into physical evidence or patsy theories to show it was an inside job. Watch this movie.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6757267008400743688
http://www.911podcasts.com/display.php?vid=92

Loose Change Second Edition is pretty good for the more speculative theories.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8260059923762628848
http://www.rynearson.com/

[Jack from Charlotte]

17. Please. In your own words, in 5 or 6 sentences....

tell me what your opinion is of what happened as I outlined above. Please no links.

Thanks in advance.

[rman]

13. To complement the explanations given by others:

Black Op(eration) = clandestine/illegal covert operation - such as Iran-Contra.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran-Contra_Affair


War games/exercises:

Multiple large scale wargames took place on 9-11. These involved the vast majority of US military planes, sending them over to places like Alaska. So there were very few fighter jets available to do any intercepts even if they'd gotten the order in time.
The wargames involved both simulated (fake radar blips) and real (life-fly) passenger plane hijacking exercises. I think it is self-evident that this doesn't make things easier if actual real hijackings take place at the same time.
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/011805_simplify_case.shtml

The War Games of September 11th
http://georgewashington.blogspot.com/2005/11/war-games-of-september-11th.html
On the very morning of 9/11/01, five war games and terror drills were being conducted by several U.S. defense agencies, including one "live fly" exercise using REAL planes. Then-Acting Head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Air Force General Richard B. Myers, admitted to 4 of the war games in congressional testimony -- see transcript here or video here (6 minutes and 12 seconds into the video).
http://www.spiegltech.com/media/McKinney2.rm (C-SPAN footage)

[DrDebug]

3. I'm no expert, however mine is a classic MIHOP version

To facilitate a planned war in Afghanistan and Iraq, the neocons in the US government in cooperation with the Saudi and ISI (Pakistani) Secret Service and probably some people from other secret services as well tried to setup a domestic terrorist event, because history has taught that similar events have been extremely successful (Reichstag, USS Maine etc.)

Two airplanes were remotely flown to the WTC towers and a missile or smaller aircraft was flown into a recently renovated part of the Pentagon. A fourth target was the Eisenhower building, however that failed and only produced a cloud of smoke, so it was later forgotten about. Don't know what happened in Pennsylvania. The President's alibi was reading My Pet Goat.

In order to get rid off the evidence the two buildings in New York as well as the headquarters of the secret services where detonated using explosives installed the weekend prior to the attack. The evidence was shipped off on a slow boat to China, so there could be no real investigation of the crime scene.

The attack was blamed on 19 Saudis, most of which turned out to be alive, and the neocons favorite bogeyman Osama. The plans for the invasion of Afghanistan were executed almost instantly, however the Iraqi invasion required some more planning.

Since the public demanded an investigation, a commission report was created which provided the official conspiracy theory.

What happened to the passangers of the planes is unknown. What happened to the original planes is unknown. It is also unknown who exactly planned it, however my opinion on the motivation is described above.

NB: I don't like to answer the debunking crowd with specific questions.

[Jack from Charlotte]

7. Planes flown remotley?.........

You mean the planes that we were told were hijacked or some other planes were remotly flown into WTC?. If the high jacked planes were the ones then the pilots had no control?

Seems the "what happened to the passengers is unknown" deal is a problem here. Not so? You must have an idea or theory.

[DrDebug]

8. I doubt whether the planes who hit the WTC towers had any pilots

So the planes which hit the WTC towers were not the original planes but modified remotely controlled airplanes which were guided towards the towers. The reason is that there are not many people who want to do such a suicide flight. It's like a drone.

I really have to search for the post, however we discovered the antenna which were on the telecommunication building next to the WTC (the AT&T building) which were only present during the WTC crash and were not there before the attack or there after the attack. So those antennas were to communicate/guide the airplane towards its target and possibly adjust it slightly so it was a perfect hit. The remote control could have taken place in WTC 7 which is next to the AT&T building, however the AT&T building is a communication center so two more large antennas wouldn't have attracted any attention.

The passenger stuff is something which I don't know and I don't have theory and I don't think that we'll discover what happened to the people. The only thing we do know is that most of the flights (I thought two) were unscheduled. I assume that those people are casualties since we haven't heard anything from them.

[DrDebug]

10. The antenna thread

Some images are no longer online, however you can still see the antennas in quite a number of pictures.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=36475&mesg_id=36626

[CornField]

4. I don't know

For me, there are too many holes in the predominant story for it to be plausible. If I could request a wish, it would be for all the information relating to 9-11 be made public. The other videos of the Pentagon? Did they ever release the last 3 minutes of black box recording on 93? What about those put options?

There is just too much that has not been answered... and there is too much which has transpired based on a story so full of holes and questions.

[Tin Man]

6. what REALLY happened

19, mostly Saudi guys hijacked 4 commercial airplanes. 2 of them were flown into the 2 World Trade Center buildings causing their collapse and 3,000 deaths. One crashed in Pennsylvania, likely due to a revolt of the passengers that thwarted the plan to attack The US Capital Building. One was flown into the Pentagon killing it's passengers and 125 DOD employees.

[stevekatz]

12. Sanity at last (nt)

.

[rman]

14. just another opinion

[m0nkeyneck]

16. and everyone lived happily ever after

if TV says so it must be true...


</sarcasm>

[petgoat]

19. And none of this would have been possible if not for

1. FBI squelching of antiterrorist investigations
2. FAA failure to follow standard procedures
3. Bush sitting on his ass for half an hour and failing to order defense of DC
4. NORAD planes flying straight out to sea instead of flying to intercept the planes
that supposely motivated their launching
5. Six simultaneous war games taking place on 9/11
6. Shutting down the Pentagon SAMs

[KJF]

15. OK

Al Qaeda (or whatever it's really called) planned the Planes Operation and sent some guys over to the states. For some reason, even though several of them were known to multiple US intelligence agencies, which had been following them and intercepting their communications for years, they weren't picked up, even though two of them lived with one of the FBI's top counter-terrorism informers and two others were learning to fly right next to a CIA front company.

On the day of 9/11, the Planes Operation went horribly wrong (they were mostly amateurs) as the lead hijacker had booked himself onto the wrong connecting flight and almost missed American 11, and one of his side-kicks decided he didn't want to die and ran off. In the end the operation took nearly 2 hours, much longer than the twenty minutes they planned on, but that didn't matter, because, according to the 9/11 Commission, the FAA was keeping details of the hijacked planes secret from NORAD. For some bizarre reason, there was a small earth tremor suggestive of an aircraft crash three minutes after United 93 crashed in Shanksville, although the crash itself produced no seismic reading.

Subsequently, the Secretary of Defense, head of the military and duty officer at the National Military Command centre were so traumatised that they couldn't remember how many interceptors they launched, what the FAA had told them or where they were, and kept contradicing themselves, each other and everybody else in the chain of command.

Oh, and somebody blew the WTC up - I almost forgot in the excitement.

[Jack from Charlotte]

18. This tells what you think DIDN"T happen. Please explain what ....

you think DID happen.

Thanks.

[petgoat]

20. He told you what happened. nt

[rman]

21. Don't know - but what we do know

is that the official story causes more questions than it answers. The former post points that out quite clearly.

It's certain that whatever exactly happened that day, it's not what official sources say what happened.

[KJF]

23. Well, that's harder

I have no idea how the hijackers managed to do the job when they were being monitored - probably just some sort of foul up, but LIHOP (Let It Happen On Purpose) looks kind of attractive. United 93 was shot down just after the hero passengers took control back, which is the reason for the cover up and the incredible mutating official account. The WTC got blown up with explosives planted there years before (don't ask - it's a long story) - the bombers had no idea the planes were coming. One or two of the elevator mechanics knew about the explosives, and that's why they all ran off. Oh, and when the FBI found out who the hijackers' support network was, they realised most of them already worked for the Bureau (or the DEA) and they hired the rest. Hey, you can't have too many informers.

The moral of the story is:
(1) Don't put explosives in tall buildings, you never know who might crash a plane into them;
(2) If the FBI (and other law enforcement agencies in other countries) just arrested their own informers and stopped breaking the law, the world would be a safer place.

[Jara sang]

22. A false flag operation that empowered the already powerful

to engage in their global imperialism(Oil) while the masses are distracted with false feelings of patriotism at the same time embracing their civil rights being stripped away willfully.

[coalition_unwilling]

24. What is a "false flag operation"? I don't think I know what that means.

I incline toward there being a sort of rogue intel operation (a CIA within the CIA, for example) that used its historical contacts with al Quaida (from Afghanistan in the '80s) to set up and facilitate the attacks.

I derive that from the Latinate question "Cui bono?" ("Who benefits"?) Osama's motivations are clear -- to encourage a Western attack on Islam as a pre-condition for re-establishing the Caliphate. The black ops' motivations are not quite as clear to me -- the oil pipeline through Afghanistan coupled with Iraqi oil reserves are tempting as a locus for the rogue operators' motivations.

[rman]

29. False Flag op:

The staging of an incident to be framed on someone else for the purpose of having a pretext to attack the one that's been framed.

Such as Operation Northwoods (which has been mentioned about a million times in this forum - google it).

[StealthyDragon]

25. Help me here and keep it short.

I think once your realize that the last two jets never existed. Your view of the rest of the ruse will take care of itself.

[wildbilln864]

26. IMO, the planes did exist...

but after the highjackers took over the planes the "agent/agents" took control from the highjackers and steered the planes into the targets. The passengers really were on the planes and they really did die. Once the remote control of the planes was implemented, there was no way anyone on board was able to prevent it. Google "operation homerun".




p.s.
Hello Charlotte, near Spartanburg here.

[StealthyDragon]

27. What physical evidence of either jet do you have?

I've found nothing.

Ever read page ten of the Northwoods document?

[Sinti]

28. I'm certain that 19, mostly Saudi, guys hijacked 4 commercial airplanes.

Two of them were flown into the two World Trade Center buildings. One crashed in Pennsylvania, one was flown into the Pentagon.

It's uncertain just who they were working for, as these mostly Saudi guys and their accomplices were paid for by mostly Saudi friends of the Bushes, namely Bandar's wife, and other members of the royal family, the bin Laden family, and Khalid bin Mahfouz (who's American money manager is James Bath, *'s old friend). The Pakistani ISI Director General also coughed up some dough.

It looks as if they may have planted some bombs in the WTC to me, as well, because of the speed at which the buildings fell, but I can't prove it yet. Then we trampled all over the Constitution and ran off to war.

The rest, I'm still wading through.