For those who believe Flight 77 hit the Pentagon:

[spooked911]

what do you think happened to the rather large tail structure? In particular, what happened to the vertical stabilizer which is huge and almost certainly didn't impact the outer wall or enter the hole in the Pentagon?

It seems to me the tail is large enough to break off in the explosion and it should have been seen relatively intact outside the Pentagon as a large piece of debris. So where did it go?

[LARED]

1. I suspect much of the tail section

flew over the top of the pentagon. In the stills taken from the parking lot you can see a rather large object that sails over the top of the outer wall.

While it is not possible to determine what that object is by looking at the image, the shape cleraly could be a bit piece of the tail section that broke off at impact.

[spooked911]

2. Curious, then, how this woman says the tail went into the building

she definitely has the oddest witness testimony I know of:

Penny Elgas was driving to work (at the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation near the White House) headed north stuck in the traffic, almost in front of the Pentagon....it gently rocked and slowly glided straight into the Pentagon. At the point where the fuselage hit the wall, it seemed to simply melt into the building. I saw a smoke ring surround the fuselage as it made contact with the wall. It appeared as a smoke ring that encircled the fuselage at the point of contact and it seemed to be several feet thick. I later realized that it was probably the rubble of churning bits of the plane and concrete. The churning smoke ring started at the top of the fuselage and simultaneously wrapped down both the right and left sides of the fuselage to the underside, where the coiling rings crossed over each other and then coiled back up to the top. Then it started over again -- only this next time, I also saw fire, glowing fire in the smoke ring. At that point, the wings disappeared into the Pentagon. And then I saw an explosion and watched the tail of the plane slip into the building. It was here that I closed my eyes for a moment and when I looked back, the entire area was awash in thick black smoke.

http://www.pentagonresearch.com/024.html

[OneMind]

5. No Flight 77

If the tail section of a Boeing 757 had "sail(ed) over the top of the outer wall", (lol), there would be a tail section of a Boeing 757.

No tail section. No Boeing. No Flight 77.

[spooked911]

11. Yes, if there was a tail section that had flown over the roof, you would

think someone would have taken a picture of it.

[OneMind]

12. Yeah, spooked, "you would think," wouldn't you?

The "19 Muslim suicide hijacker" storytellers would love to have a picture of the tail section too, so as to try to put the pesky no-Flight-77 "problem" to rest.

If Flight 77 struck the Pentagon, the fictionists would have published the photographic evidence EVERYWHERE. But Flight 77 (if it actually existed) did not strike the Pentagon, and, therefore, there are no photographs and surveillance tapes were confiscated and and/or withheld.

The question about a Boeing striking the Pentagon is now such a "no brainer," that one can only chuckle at what has become a desperate attempt on the part of the tall-tale tellers to put the genie back in the bottle.

[Make7]

3. almost certainly

spooked911 wrote:
...what happened to the vertical stabilizer which is huge and almost certainly didn't impact the outer wall or enter the hole in the Pentagon?

Why would it "almost certainly" not impact the outer wall or enter the hole? Did the plane instantly explode when the nose made contact with the Pentagon, causing large pieces of the plane to "break off"?

Doesn't the fuel need to mix with the air to some degree before it will explode? Does that not take time? Then there is the acceleration of the detonation velocity of the fuel/air mixture to consider - how long did it take the explosion to reach a velocity that would be able to cause damage to the airplane? And finally, was the plane going fast enough so that the tail of the airplane would reach the outer wall of the Pentagon before the explosion could possibly break it off?

-Make7

[spooked911]

4. Are you saying the tail disintegrated?

"Did the plane instantly explode when the nose made contact with the Pentagon, causing large pieces of the plane to "break off"?"

You be the judge:
http://www.pentagonresearch.com/dod.html

Check out the Sugano-Sandia test of a jet airplane hitting a solid wall:
http://www.911-strike.com/missing-confetti.htm

In any case, the tail is too big to enter the hole and it didn't touch the wall because there are no signs of anything impacting the Pentagon wall high up where the tail would be.

Mostly I'm just asking what you think happened.

by the way, how do you make that quote box thingy?

[Make7]

6. I think almost all of us have seen both those videos by now.

The Pentagon video is of such low resolution in the area of the impact and is also of such a low frame rate (or has missing frames) as to be almost useless. I remember many discussions about that video and what information could, or could not, be found in it. There didn't seem to be any agreement on what it meant. Why do you bring it up? The first two frames shown could be almost a second apart (if the time stamp is in seconds) which means I can't determine when the plane impacted the building and how much time elapsed before the fireball in the second frame. I believe I used the word instantly. Nothing explodes instantly that I'm aware of.

---

Did the F4's tail impact the concrete block? And what happened to it if it did?

---

spooked911 wrote:
In any case, the tail is too big to enter the hole and it didn't touch the wall because there are no signs of anything impacting the Pentagon wall high up where the tail would be.

Mostly I'm just asking what you think happened.

I think the tail hit the Pentagon wall and broke into small pieces.

-Make7

[spooked911]

9. As far as I can tell, the video shows that the plane exploded on impact

with the wall, which is what you would expect for a reinforced stone-brick-concrete wall.

Certainly, there is enough plane debris that got blown outwards from the impact site to say that much of the plane blew up upon impact. Certainly some of the plane went in the hole as well.

[Make7]

13. Yes, certainly the plane exploded when it impacted the wall.

However, there is some amount of time that must have elapsed after the impact until the explosion of fuel/air mixture caused by the rupture of the fuel tanks. I think it is entirely possible that the plane had sufficient velocity to cause the tail section to hit the wall before it would be affected by that explosion.

For an example of a delay between impact and fireball, watch a South Tower impact video. I know that it is not a comparable structure, but it illustrates the point of an explosion not occurring at the instant of the impact. The whole plane is inside the tower before the fireball happens.

-Make7

[Make7]

7. How to make the quote box thingy:

The HTML code to make a box is found in the HTML lookup table
found at:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=html_table

There's a link to it shown when you post. They have the box
listed under 'Blockquotes' and it looks like this:

[div class="excerpt"]Text[/div]
______________________________

I added the 'Username wrote:' part by incorporating the
following changes to get this:

[div class="excerpt"][b][font
color="#000099" size="1"]Username
wrote:[/font][/b][br][i]Text[/i][/div]
______________________________

Be sure to use the 'Preview' button to make sure it will look
how you want before posting.

-Make7

[spooked911]

8. Cool. Thanks!

[spooked911]

10. That's three different opinions of people who think flight 77 hit the Pent

1) at least one witness saw the tail go in

2) LARED says the tail broke off and went flying over the Pentagon roof (never to be seen again)

3) Make7 says the tail disintegrated upon hitting the wall

Any other ideas out there?

[vincent_vega_lives]

14. Well something certainly flew over the roof of the Pentagon

and it was most likely the vertical stabilizer.