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Notes from "Confronting the Evidence" 9/11 Forum Sat. night in NYC.

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milkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-12-04 12:54 AM
Original message
Notes from "Confronting the Evidence" 9/11 Forum Sat. night in NYC.
This was sponsored by 911 Truth.org. Speakers included DU's own Paul Thompson, Robert Bowman, John Prados, Webster Tarpley, David Von Kleist, and Barry Zwicker. It was hosted by Ed Begley, Jr. and Jamey Hecht. Clips of some videos were interspersed during the evening.

The event took place at The Manhattan Center Ballroom on W. 34th St. and was free to the public. I estimate there were 1,000-1,500 people in attendance. It was a very nice setting with folding chairs for the audience. Almost all seats were taken. There were several large cameras filming the event.

Here's some random quotes I jotted down. Most are word-for-word with some occasional paraphrasing.

In introducing the first speaker, Jenna Orkin, who spoke of the environment around the WTC in the days after the attacks, Ed Begley, Jr. said, "If you don't believe our government would do this <9/11> to our people, consider what they did to people right after 9/11."

Paul Thompson spoke about the conflicts of interest of the 9/11 Commission's members. "The final report of the Commission was supposed to be a unanimous report, so if one member objected to something it was dropped. Everything in the final report was approved by the bush administration."

Christopher Scheer of the L.A. Times spoke of the mainstream media's acquiescence about 9/11. "This conference is taking place because of the Internet. You guys are all part of the media now."

Jamey Hecht: "The last remaining supplies of oil and natural gas are the prize at the end of the rainbow for dick cheney's war that will not end in our lifetimes."

Paul Thompson: "There is not a single mention of the warnings from foreign governments in the 9/11 Commission's reports. We cannot trust the report."

David Ray Griffin spoke on video to the forum: "People say the report reads like a novel. That's true. It's a work of fiction."

Griffin said that there are two basic theories regarding 9/11. One is the official conspiracy theory put out by the bush administration. The other says the attacks were made possible by complicity of the bush administration. The 9/11 Commission assumed the bush theory was true and used it to determine what evidence was relevant. The Commission was not independent. The Executive Director <bush hack Philip Zelikow> directed the staff about which lines of inquiry should be looked into."

Paul Thompson spoke about Pakistan and the ISI. "ISI is largely funded by drug money...It is a state within a state...it has close ties to the CIA." Paul made a reference to Osama bin Laden receiving advance warning from the ISI when Clinton launched his missile strikes at bin Laden's camp. Paul spoke of Porter Goss and Bob Graham having breakfast with the head of the ISI on the morning of 9/11. He said that their Intelligence Committee's report investigated Saudi involvement with 9/11, but made no mention of Pakistan and the ISI.

Robert Bowman said of the bush administration, "The kindest thing we can say is that they were aware of the impending attacks and let them happen. That is high treason...It is up to us to investigate 9/11."

Karl Schwarz, a repug, spoke about the financial aspects of 9/11. He also said that he had spoken to Sibel Edmonds before she received a gag order. She told him, "she found drug trafficking and money laundering, involving foreign names and American names, that financed 9/11." Schwarz said there is $11-12 trillion dollars of oil and natural gas in the Caspian Sea area. That's why the Taliban had to be taken out.

Kristina Borjesson said, "Colin Powell is trying to get Bob Woodward to write his mea culpa."

Michael Kane on video, quoting a demolitions expert, said the collapse of WTC 7 was "a work of art." Tenants of the building included the CIA, Secret Service, Giuliani, and the SEC. He mentioned that it was possible that documents relating to Enron were destroyed. The owner of the building, Larry Silverstein, is shown saying on a PBS video that because of the fires, they made the decision to pull <a controlled demolition> WTC 7. Kane made the point that a controlled demolition of a large building is not something that can be put together in a few hours. It takes weeks to prepare for it.

A reporter from American Free Press (I believe his name was Christoper Berlin) spoke of the flight that supposedly hit the Pentagon. He said Flight 77 took off from Washington and went to Ohio, where it disappeared. Based in Ohio are Global Hawk unmanned aerial vehicles. He theorized that a missile might have been fired at the Pentagon from a Global Hawk, which then trailed it into the building. The evidence, or lack of it, at the Pentagon is much more in keeping with an attack of this kind than with a 757.

There were some drawbacks to the event. There were numerous technical problems with the microphones and slide shows. The event was supposed to last two hours, but lasted nearly four. Some speakers spoke for much longer than they should have.

A break for audience questions devolved into near chaos. Three microphones were placed in the aisles and people were told to line up if they had a question. The moderators only meant to take a handful of questions, but dozens of people lined up and were quite vocal in getting the opportunity to have themselves heard. While this was annoying to most of the other members of the audience, it is perhaps a sign of the frustrations that have built inside people for so long about 9/11. While there were certainly many "Internet" people such as myself at the event, I had the impression that a number of the audience members had only corporate media as their news outlets. The near complete silence by the mainstream media on the issues presented this evening have left some people hungry for a way to be heard about what they think happened on that day.
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-12-04 01:16 AM
Response to Original message
1. Thanks for the update.
Was Nikko Haupt involved? He used to post here. I have mucho respect for Paul Thompson's work at www.cooperativeresearch.org.

I, too, think the Commission's work was a Bush sponsered whitewash. Someday, all of the facts about the who and why of 9/11/01 will be made known.
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milkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-12-04 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. Nikko Haupt wasn't listed in the program. I'm unfamiliar with that name.
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fearnobush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-12-04 01:28 AM
Response to Original message
2. Yes I purchased the 10$ piece of trash known as the Final Report.
What a white wash. I feel terrible for all the good people who worked so hard to get the commission started and out of the denying grips of Bu$h's murderous hands.
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pretzel4gore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-12-04 01:54 AM
Response to Original message
3. the video of the guy saying #7 was a controlled demo
is that available anywhere? there are supposed to be tapes of firefighters yelling that they could hear explosions in the wtc towers just before the end...those too? local mediawhores need something to at least knock them off the 11 point insurmountable 'bush poll lead'...
wtc #7, which neatly fell at 5 pm, is a 'smoking gun'(?) and why it hasn't gutted any official story...???? is mystery!
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milkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-12-04 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. I'm sure the clip is part of a 9/11 video, but I didn't catch which one.
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althecat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-12-04 02:19 AM
Response to Original message
4. Thanks heaps for the update....
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graphixtech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-12-04 08:23 AM
Response to Original message
5. Thank you, milkyway
for taking the time for this excellent report.

Kyle Hence (a semi-pro photographer) has offered to contribute his
photos of the evening's events and speakers, so there will be an online
911Truth.org photo album (hopefully tomorrow).

Professional video from the event has also been promised,
and will be available here in the near future:
http://septembereleventh.org/kc/multimedia/

Here are a few sample photos from a 911Truth.org photo album
of their images from the first week's events in NYC (album link):
http://media.digitalstyledesigns.com/








http://www.911Truth.org/index.php


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Woody Box Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-12-04 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. 911truth.org

is not representative for the 9/11 truth movement.

The LIHOPpers gathered in this fraction are a minority, in the USA as well as in the global movement.

9/11 was a big deceit and not just a big failure. More and more people accept that.

The moment where this cathedral of lies crumbles to dust as the WTC Towers is not far away.

The history will sweep away the LIHOP versions like autumn leaves.


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stickdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-13-04 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #10
20. 9/11truth.org ain't bad. Please remember that all things are relative, and
that history is written by the victors.
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Woody Box Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-14-04 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #20
30. 911truth.org

has made two big blunders undermining its credibility:

They promoted Mark Robinowitz's hate campaign against other researchers.

They attacked Dave v. Kleists video "In Plane Site" flatly as disinformation (still doing it).

v. Kleist vs Robinowitz? Who do you trust?



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Dancing_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-12-04 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
8. More Reviews of Consciousness Raising Event at INN World Report
You can find more reviews of this consciousness raising event at
http://inn.globalfreepress.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=784

It seems a bit like 9/11 itself--various witnesses have very different impressions of what happened! :think:
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LARED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-12-04 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Very Interesting reviews
Edited on Sun Sep-12-04 08:27 PM by LARED
Thanks.

Ewing, PP and others hang out with some very troubling people.
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milkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-12-04 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Thanks for the link. I had no idea my remarks would be used on another
site, but I'm o.k. with that. I had no idea there was so much fighting within the 9/11 truth movement. It seems quite counterproductive.
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LARED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-12-04 09:29 PM
Response to Original message
11. A reporter from American Free Press
He was Christoper Bollyen. He has been closely associated with Willis Carto for many years. A neo-nazi, anti-semite, holocaust denying kook.
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stickdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-13-04 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. And a damn good reporter relative to our age of unjournalism.
You forgot that.

Maybe you'd like to cite recent examples of his reporting that you have reason to believe are false rather than playing "guilt by association"?
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LARED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-13-04 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. American Free Press
articles are not permitted to be posted on DU. Bolleyn writes extensively for them.
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stickdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-13-04 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Really? What is rationale for that? Limbaugh can be linked, but not AFP?
Just curious here. While it's not my favorite publication, I find Bolleyn's personal efforts a lot more credible than, say, Wolf Blitzer.
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-13-04 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. THEY'RE NAZIS.
Not figurative Nazis like Freepers or Limbaugh.

Honest to goodness NAZIS.

You just praised a NAZI reporter.

You have proved the point about CT'ers and NAZIS being in bed together.

Just in case you wonder why people dismiss y'all.
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stickdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-13-04 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. Yes, and so is the Bush clan.
Yet you believe whatever they tell you. Don't you?
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-14-04 07:33 AM
Response to Reply #26
32. I don't believe everything the Bush clan tells me.
I haven't caught the Poppy et al denying the Holocaust or reminiscing about how the world would be better if HITLER had won either though.
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LARED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-13-04 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. Willis Carto (n/t)
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-13-04 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #15
22. Working for the AFP is like wearing a Swastika on one's arm.
Praising the AFP, well . . .
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stickdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-13-04 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. Read my post. I went out of my way NOT to praise the AFP.
I compared Bolleyn (and only Bolleyn) favorably to Wolf FUCKING WAR MONGER Blitzer. And I compared the AFP to Rush FUCKING OXYMORON FASCIST Limbaugh.

But why am I surprised?

When all you've got is strawmen, ad hominem attacks and "guilt by association" smears, that's all you ever use. And in your case, that's all you've ever got.

But please, feel free to prove me wrong anytime, geek.
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-14-04 07:31 AM
Response to Reply #27
31. Did you see the Holocaust denial article of his I posted?
Yes, you did. You responded to it. Did you in anyway repudiate the man who wrote it? No.

Here's a clue: Anyone who has spent his career in the service of Neo-Nazis and forwarding their specific white supremacist and holocaust denial goals IS NO ONE THAT A REAL PROGRESSIVE WOULD TRUST.

The man is a FUCKING NAZI. You still trust him despite that. That's all that needs to be said.

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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-13-04 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #15
24. Here's an example for you
Edited on Mon Sep-13-04 11:09 PM by geek tragedy
http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?noframes;read=40914
Your hero is a Nazi maggot. Please now repudiate him and admit your error in not realizing how evil he is.

Or does that article not change your mind?
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stickdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-13-04 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. My hero? I said he was more credible than, say, Wolf Blitzer.
Could I have set the bar any lower?
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-14-04 07:38 AM
Response to Reply #28
33. You called him a "damn good reporter."
Do you think that Goebbels' people were also "damn good reporters?" Compared to journalists working today?

I'm just trying to get a sense on how much you rely on/agree with Nazis, bigots, and Holocaust deniers in putting together an opinion on how the world works.

Not calling you an anti-semite--just someone with a really poor truth filter.
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paulthompson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-13-04 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
13. event
I spoke at that event, and if I could do it all over again, I certainly would not have. I didn't realize who all the other speakers would be, which isn't surprising given that the list was changing even as the event was going on!

To me, this event symbolizes all the flaws about the 9/11 skeptics' movement. Infighting, chaos, lack of civility, wackiness, hijacked agendas. There was another event in NYC on Thursday which still had issues but went much better, probably because it was run by different people. It had a very different vibe. Still, I hope some people got something out of this event, if they had tolerance for some of the difficulties.
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milkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-13-04 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Yes, it was a weird night. I had no idea there was so much juvenile
in-fighting within the 9/11 truth movement (I like your phrase better--the 9/11 skeptics movement). It reminded me of when I first got involved in progressive politics in the early eighties. It seemed some people always had a "more leftist than thou" attitude. It was quite a turn-off. It seems that some of the people of the 9/11 movement have the attitude that if you don't believe every claim they make, you are soft and must have been co-opted. By nature, I am a skeptical person. Not only am I skeptical of the government, I'm skeptical of the skeptics.

The next day I had the good fortune to see the exact opposite of this attitude when I heard Michael Moore speak at The Walter Reade Theater. Moore's politics are strongly to the left, but yet he finds the good in everyone's viewpoint. He looks for common ground on which to move our society forward.

Thanks for your appearance Saturday night. You seem like such a young guy, I'm amazed you have time to do the tremendous amount of research you've done. Keep up the great work. Yours is an insightful voice that we need today.
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RH Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-13-04 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. I am not surprised.
I was always wondering where you'd go with it all, what exactly the work would ever apply to, having known a good few people who tried in vain to mix intelligence with politics. Every one of them lived to regret it, one way or another.

:toast:

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paulthompson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-13-04 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #17
25. confused
Not at all sure what you mean here. "Where I went with it all" is my new book, certainly not this Saturday event. "Mix intelligence with politics" not sure what that means in particular.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-13-04 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
RH Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-14-04 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #25
34. That's the trouble.

I'm not too sure of what I mean either, nor am I so sure any more of what anybody else means. Is there a practical political objective somewhere amidst it all?

Three years ago I had some idea of a point and purpose. Now I'm ashamed of the naivete, the time I wasted, pearls before swine, that sort of thing, thinking about Teddy Goldsmith for instance. More than thirty years ago he thought that all he had to do was to put out the word, about the ecological plight of the Planet and the solution would kind of sort itself out.

Where if anywhere does one find the optimism nowadays? Are you overwhelmed by feedback or short of it?

Just wondering.




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stickdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-13-04 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. Paul, I really love Nico for his hard charging pursuit of the truth.
However, when it comes to dealing with groups of people, he puts the independent in "independent researcher" and the zealot in "truth zealot."

Like many who have been convinced of the unspeakable, Nico has an honest but tragic flaw. His pursuit of the truth makes Fox Mulder look easy going, and his impatience for more conservative assessments of his version of the truth is a known quantity. So known, I'm afraid, that the 911 Lies movement (you know, the one sponsored by TPTB) has already exploited it several times.

In a world filled with spin and out and out lies, truth has its own power. So regardless of the "office politics" of these situations, every time somebody like you makes the effort to speak the truth loudly and proudly, it does make a positive difference.
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graphixtech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-14-04 10:46 PM
Response to Original message
35. New Audio files available from of this event!
911Truth.org has audio on the front page
(four 30 minute segments):
http://www.911Truth.org/index.php

Public awareness and participation:

http://www.septembereleventh.org/


Half (49.3%) of New Yorkers Believe U.S. Leaders 
Had Foreknowledge of Impending 9/11 Attacks
and "Consciously Failed" To Act; 
66% Call For New Probe of Unanswered Questions  
by Congress or New York's Attorney General, 
New Zogby International Poll Reveals
http://zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=855
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