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Face it, folks: Flight 77 did NOT hit the Pentagon

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Woody Box Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 05:04 PM
Original message
Face it, folks: Flight 77 did NOT hit the Pentagon
Here's another proof that the NTSB data for Flight 77 are complete BS.

The official story (9/11 CommReport) has it that Flight 77 vanished for some five minutes in a radar hole at 8:57, but was not detected by controllers when he was visible again because they were "not told to look for primary targets". Here's footnote 144, Chapter 1:

144. John Thomas interview (May 4, 2004); Charles Thomas interview (May 4, 2004). We have reviewed all FAA documents, transcripts, and tape recordings related to American 77 and have found no evidence that FAA headquarters issued a directive to surrounding centers to search for primary radar targets. Review of the same materials also indicates that no one within FAA located American 77 until the aircraft was identified by Dulles controllers at 9:32. For much of that time, American 77 was traveling through Washington Center's airspace. The Washington Center's controllers were looking for the flight, but they were not told to look for primary radar returns.

The NTSB flight path study has Flight 77 flying between 25000 ft and 35000 ft when it was in Washington Center airspace, i.e. if it was there then it was clearly visible on radar.

So do we have a case of massive incompetence of the controllers of Washington Center here, not able to spot a primary target for 25 minutes?

The answer is: No! No case of incompetent controllers, rather a case of a corrupt commission obstructing the evidence and faked data released by a corrupt government agency.

Just listen to this gentleman here. He's the operations manager of Washington Center, and at 9:33:50, he provided NEADS with this clear information here:

Let me tell you this story here: Indianapolis Center was working this guy - American 77 - at flight level 350, they lost radar with him, they lost contact with him, they lost everything, they don't have any idea where he is or what happened. So what we've done at the surrounding centers here is tell them all to look out for limited codes or primary targets or whatever the case may be and that was the last time - that was about 15 minutes ago since I talked to the Indianapolis Center operations manager.

Source: NORAD tapes, channel 4; scroll forward to 1:08:20 (about 9:33:50) )

http://www.aal77.com/norad/norad.php

So Washington Center and Indianapolis Center did everything they could to spot primary targets and unknown objects on their screens - as we can expect from professional controllers -, but they couldn't find one. And the 9/11 Commission is convicted of another big lie.

And the so-called evidence that Flight 77 was flying back to Washington is nihilated.

Flight 77 didn't hit the Pentagon. Objections, anyone?
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 06:01 PM
Response to Original message
1. The families of the victims aboard Flight 77 might have some objections. n/t
Edited on Thu Jan-17-08 06:01 PM by boloboffin
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MrMickeysMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #1
96. I would too, if nobody ever found out where my plane went "down" n/t
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
2. Yeah, from the numerous eyewitnesses who saw the fricking plane...
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BobbyVan Donating Member (502 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #2
108. Thanks for posting that list
These "truthers" do nothing but marginalize the left.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #108
109. Exactly...
I wish we could trade them to the RW, but I can't, for the life of me, think of anything the RW has that we could possibly want. Maybe we could just get the RW to adopt them. They are very much marginalizing the left, not to mention being utterly embarrassing.
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ShaneGR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 07:55 PM
Response to Original message
3. So what happened to the people abord Flight 77? They get beamed up to Scotty?
Just wondering.
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mrgerbik Donating Member (652 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. you really expect an answer?
I thought the post (and posts like it) was to point out obvious flaws in the OCT and surrounding theories. Why should the burden of proof lie on his shoulders when its not even his freaking job!
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Umm, no, Shane...
with the exception of a two year old, all the bodies were positively identified, which you could have discovered, had you bothered to look.

http://web.archive.org/web/20060907034559/http://ndms.c...

http://web.archive.org/web/20070704182456/http://gilroy...

Are you embarrassed yet, Shane? If you aren't, you should be.

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ShaneGR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. LOL, my sarcasm went right over your head
Way over actually.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Hey, Shane!
Sorry. Forgive me for thinking you were a "truther"! Apology accepted?
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ShaneGR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 07:09 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Sure! nt
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Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 08:55 PM
Response to Original message
5. Woody, you obviously haven't seen the video proof that bush released..



Does that help clear things up for you??


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Woody Box Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
10. Gentlemen, your "instant debunking" attempts don't impress me

So can please someone explain to me why the controllers of Washington and Indianapolis Center did not spot radar target Flight 77 for 25 minutes despite they were looking for it desperately? And why did the 9/11 Commission lie about this fact? I'm not interested in replies that ignore these questions. Thanks.

Bolo, at least from you I would have expected something better than just playing the "victim families" card. I'm disappointed.
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. With a FDR, a CVR, the remains of the plane pulled from the site, and the positive ID
of the passengers, Flight 77 denial is among the chief absurdities of life.

They didn't find it because they didn't find it. Searching primary radar for targets w/o a transponder isn't something ATCs do everyday, especially when the plane wasn't where they expected it to be. Your objection is ludicrous in the face of the above evidence.

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Woody Box Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. I hope air traffic controllers will not take offend from your insinuations

Where exactly do you think the controllers did Flight 77 "expect to be"? Obviously several centers were involved in the search. The fact that Washington Center was involved, too, shows that they indeed reckoned on the possibility that Flight 77 turned around and moved through their airspace. But they didn't see anything. For 25 minutes.




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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. I am quite certain they would not. n/t
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. Umm, Woody...
Edited on Fri Jan-18-08 02:59 PM by SDuderstadt
if your hypothesis is true, then account for the fact that all but one of the AA77's passenger's remains were positively identified at the scene. That blows your hypothesis out of the water.

As far as your question concerning radar, I'd love to answer it, but only if you understand the complexities involved that day and can break free of the CT tunnel vision. I had similar questions to yours and even leaned in the direction of "something doesn't add up" until I started looking for the answers to my questions and, when presented with them, went, "Oh. OH, now THAT is a perfectly reasonable explanation", consistent with both science and reason and perfectly consistent with the "official story", although I am hardly claiming that there are not unanswered questions. In order to understand these answers, one must start with the big picture of how these entities (in this case, the FAA works, what their limitations and obstacles are and the absolute chaos and confusion that reigned that day). You also have to remain open to the idea that whatever sources you're relying upon are either mistaken or wrong, or simply only have parts of the puzzle.

The first piece is a discussion by Andrew Burfield with someone who essentially raised the same question you have. I'm not claiming him as the ultimate authority in the matter, just providing the overall framework to untangle this.

"AA77 was a Boeing 757, not a Boeing 767. Your account also isn't entirely true. AA77's transponder was turned off at 0856EDT, and it crashed into the Pentagon at 0937EDT. That's 41 minutes. Looks good so far for you right?

Not quite. AA77's transponder was turned off in a part of the USA with no primary radar coverage. Yes, that right, there's gaps in the primary radar coverage. With simultaneous loss of communications and transponder, the ARTCC controller rightly assumed the aircraft had crashed.

Indianapolis Centre then followed correct procedure and notified surrounding ARTCCs so airspace along AA77's flightpath could be sterilised. Meanwhile, of course, AA77 had turned around and was heading east, not west. When it entered an area with primary coverage at 0905EDT, no one noticed because they were looking west.

At 0908EDT Indianapolis Centre activated the USAF's Search and Rescue units at Langley AFB, to commence a search for AA77's wreckage.

By 0920EDT, Indianapolis Centre staff had learned that there were multiple suspected hijackings in progress. At this moment they began to suspect AA77 may have not crashed, but been hijacked.

At 0921EDT the FAA began searching for AA77 on radar, and Dulles TRACON were notified of suspected hijackings. They were directed to check all unknown radar contacts.

At 0932EDT Dulles TRACON located AA77 (although they didn't know it was AA77).

At 0934EDT NORAD hear about the unknown contact being tracked by Dulles TRACON, and direct fighters to intercept it.

At 0936EDT an ANG C-130 departs Reagan, and Tower controllers direct the aircraft to follow the radar track located by Dulles TRACON.

At 0937EDT the ANG C-130 reports that the aircraft has hit the Pentagon.

Thus by my calculation AA77 was hijacked for 41 minutes, which comprised of:
24 minutes during which the aircraft was believed to have crashed
12 minutes during which the aircraft was missing and suspected of being hijacked
5 minutes during which the aircraft was a suspect hijack but being tracked on radar"


Here's what the NTSB had to say about AA77:

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB196/doc02.pdf

I'm still looking for the ATC transcript regarding AA77 and will post when I find it.




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Woody Box Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #14
22. Chaos and confusion?

The manager's statement is clear and simple. His account doesn't imply chaos and confusion, and the hijackings did not occur in his airspace. He told his controllers to look out for anything odd spotted on radar. Do you really believe the controllers missed a primary radar target crossing their airspace at cruising altitude despite being explicitly instructed to look for primary targets? I hope not.

The charm of the NORAD tapes is their authenticity which trumps all of the dubious CVR/FDR/NTSB data which have been released years after the attacks.


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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #22
29. Ummm, Woody...
then explain the identification of the passenger's remains at the Pentagon.
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MrMickeysMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #29
97. Oh, I know the answer... It's.... BULLSHIT
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nebula Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
15. The recovered bodies
were that of Pentagon employees who died in the explosion.

None were recovered from the plane.

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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. This is absolute bullshit
Read the account below where Army Staff Sgt. Mark Williams desribes the discovery of several bodies of AA77 passengers still strapped into their seats.


http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/sept01/2001-09-...
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nebula Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. A 200-ton airplane is vaporized
into thin air by the explosion, yet the bodies of passengers
are found fully intact, strapped to their chairs no less?

Wow, that's pretty amazing.

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AZCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. "Vaporized" probably isn't the right word.
The substances that composed the aircraft did not undergo phase changes in most cases.
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nebula Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. Then what happened to it?
eom
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AZCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. It broke into pieces.
Vaporization would require a considerable amount of energy - quite a bit more than was available.
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nebula Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Oh I see
it broke into pieces as fine as dust.


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AZCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. While I don't think it broke down that much...
even turning into dust would require significantly less energy than changing phase from solid to gas.
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LARED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #26
30. Come on, be reasonable
The plane sublimated, happens all the time. High school physics will tell you that. Just ask Judy Wood.

It happens right after Jellification.

/sarcasm
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AZCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #30
69. Sorry, I forgot...
about the teachings of the great Dr. Wood.
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LARED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #69
70. We could be entering a new scientific dispensation
A new scientific phenomena seems to be entering the world.

How the towers were destroyed and turned into vapor.

Mental Masturbation ----> Mystification ----> Hyperspectulation ---> Jellification ---> Dustification ----> Supersublimation.

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BadgerLaw2010 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #21
104. Ripped into hundreds of thousands of pieces. Physical change, not state or chemical change.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Prove the entire plane was "vaporized"
Do you think planes involved in crashes react symmetrically to the crash?

Are you calling Staff Sgt. Mark Williams a liar?
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nebula Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. Flight 77 wasn't alone.
Something else 'vaporized' that day.


www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=vi...

Where are the bodies strapped to airplane seats?
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. Numerous eyewitness accounts, Nebula
Do you honestly think such gruesome site photos would be put out to the public just because you demand it? I already gave you one eyewitness account. Here are more:


"Blast expert Allyn E. Kilsheimer was the first structural engineer to arrive at the Pentagon after the crash and helped coordinate the emergency response. "It was absolutely a plane, and I'll tell you why," says Kilsheimer, CEO of KCE Structural Engineers PC, Washington, D.C. "I saw the marks of the plane wing on the face of the building. I picked up parts of the plane with the airline markings on them. I held in my hand the tail section of the plane, and I found the black box." Kilsheimer's eyewitness account is backed up by photos of plane wreckage inside and outside the building. Kilsheimer adds: "I held parts of uniforms from crew members in my hands, including body parts. Okay?"



Here's the phone number for KCE :(202)833-8622. Why don't you call Allyn up? I'm certain he'd love to chat with you.

http://www.dcmilitary.com/dcmilitary_archives/stories/1...

Same goes for these guys. I'm sure they'd love to chat with you.

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/entity.jsp?entity=ar...

Ditto.




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nebula Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. Show me the money
where are the airplane seats, for that matter?

there's nothing too unsightly about airplane seats or luggage, is there?
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nebula Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #28
32. Numerous witnesses indeed
those reporters said they saw nothing at the Shanksville site that would indicate an airplane had crashed.

these are real and verifiable witnesses. captured on video.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. Wtf does Shanksville have to do with AA77?
These are YOUR words that I responded to: "The recovered bodies were that of Pentagon employees who died in the explosion". Can you even follow your own thread? You're denying that any bodies of the passengers were found at the Pentagon, then you start babbling about Flight 93.
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nebula Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. what do we have here?
oh look, a CNN guy at the Pentagon.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=C02dE5VKeck


Are we beginning to see a pattern?




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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. No, only you and your goofy compadres playing...
"connect the dot", i.e. drawing unwarranted conclusions from too few data points.

Tell me something, Nebula. Are you claiming he's saying no plane crashed into the Pentagon?
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nebula Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #35
36. of course not
because we all know the plane vaporized into a super fine, talcum-like
powder when it crashed, don't we?

explains why the cnn guy didn't see any parts of it.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 12:45 AM
Response to Reply #36
39. Unfortunately, Nebula....
Edited on Sat Jan-19-08 12:47 AM by SDuderstadt
you must not have read everything McIntyre said (I suspect you were duped by a clipped quote from one of the "truth") websites. Man, talk about irony. Here's more of what he said on-air:

"PHILLIPS: And so once you were able to do that, did you make your way over to that area, or were they cordoning it off so you couldn't get through?

MCINTYRE: No, I did. You were able to get pretty close for a while. Eventually, they cleared out the scene.

As I said, I had a camera with me. I took pictures of some of the wreckage, some of the parts of the fuselage, a part of the cockpit, until they told us we had to move back away from the scene.

I saw thousands of shards of metal, of pieces of the plane all over the driveway. I didn't pick up any of them or touch any of them, but I saw them everywhere. And again, took some pictures of them."

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0605/16/lol.04.h...


So, he says he not only saw recognizable parts of the plane, he took pictures of them. Looks like you just got blown out of the water again. If I were you, I'd think about staying out of the water until you learn how to swim. Or, at least not drown so fast.
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nebula Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #39
40. Why did his story change overnight?
Amazing how that works.

It did the big flippity-floppity. Nice.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 01:37 AM
Response to Reply #40
41. His story didn't change....
you just don't know how to listen. What do you think he was saying?

http://www.cnn.com/2006/EDUCATION/05/16/transcript.wed/...
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nebula Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 01:46 AM
Response to Reply #41
42. ahh yes
the 'ol switcheroo.


did you see his retraction video?
he looked about to break down and cry.

'I'll say whatever you want, please don't fire me CNN. I really need dis here job!'
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 01:49 AM
Response to Reply #42
43. You're not serious about...
learning the truth. You just play games and fabricate quotes. Bye.
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deadlikeme13 Donating Member (44 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #32
86. Yeap, lots of experts there on site, but the fed-gov spooks will keep "telling the truth" about 9/11
or as it was called back in the day, The "BIG LIE", until it becomes the
"truth".

George Orwell was right, he just had the date off by a decade and a half, is all.

The "Ministry of Truth" it was called in his book, "1984".
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #86
91. Okay...
so now EVERYONE in the Pentagon was "in on it"? Please.
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deadlikeme13 Donating Member (44 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #91
93. Where is the world did you get that idea? I said nothing about any Pentagon personnel.
Might need to have your medications checked, old boy.
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Sweet Pea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #17
37. This is a game to you, right?
Has to be. Some kind of obscene game. I can't believe anyone could actually be that dense.
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deadlikeme13 Donating Member (44 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #17
95. It sure is. I guess the human body is more resilient then we thought..or worse, not. :-(
If the September 11 truth-deniers can believe that the thin aluminum hull of a passenger aircraft can take out solid structural steel like a knife; that Jet Fuel A (diesel fuel) can melt steel so hot that it is still melted for days and weeks later; the way that this entire "9/11 Magic Show" spins it, then they probably are ready and able to believe anything........but the truth that is.
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deadlikeme13 Donating Member (44 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #16
76. Where are the pictures then? We live in a world where everything is recorded.
No pictures=No bodies.
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MrMickeysMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #16
98. Pentagon searchers encounter grisly scenes...
Yes, those Pentagon workers hearsay to the ace reporter from USA Today concluded the evidence, by gum.

:rofl:

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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #98
100. Look up the definition of hearsay.
An interview of a 1st party direct witness to an event is NOT hearsay. An interview with a 2nd party source recounting what they claim a 1st party source told them would be hearsay. Duh.
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MrMickeysMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #100
101. Yeah, we'll get that put into the 911 report for you, Perry Mason
Duh, indeed...
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #101
102. You're just ticked because you...
didn't know what you're talking about.
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MrMickeysMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 06:47 AM
Response to Reply #102
103. Yeah, that must be it...
Well, I can grammatically construct a sentence. :hi:
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. This is a factually inaccurate statement, and it is an incredibly heinous one. n/t
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Flatulo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #15
44. Bodies recovered from Flight 77 - warning GRAPHIC content
I'm pretty sure Nebby has seen these before... and with apologies to anyone who may have lost loved ones in this tragedy.



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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. I was looking for this before, Flatulo...
do you have the link?
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. These were exhibits in the Moussaoui trial.
If you search for his name, you should find all that and more.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. Thanks, Bolo...
Edited on Sat Jan-19-08 10:31 PM by SDuderstadt
thanks for the earlier compliment too. Talk to you later. I am off to my Crimestop Anonymous meeting.
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nebula Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #44
48. Sickening
falsely using the burned bodies of people who worked in
the building to advance your propaganda? how low can you go?
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. Oh, Christ...
Are you claiming those aren't AA 77 victims?
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nebula Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. How can you be sure that they are?
Are you interested in finding the facts, or jumping to conclusions?
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. Wait a minute...
Edited on Sun Jan-20-08 08:58 PM by SDuderstadt
Are you saying you don't know? Then YOU'RE jumping to conclusions! Jesus. Read your previous fricking post.

"Sickening falsely using the burned bodies of people who worked in
the building to advance your propaganda? how low can you go?"

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nebula Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. I see nothing in the photos
that indicates there were any passengers.

Missing airplane seats and luggage tells me they were building employees.







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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #52
53. Why would the luggage....
be by their bodies? Are you denying that the mortuary team identified all but one of the passenger's remains?

Seriously, I'm not talking to you anymore. What a fricking waste of time.
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nebula Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. Where where where?
Out of the hundreds if not thousands of photos of the crash site, inside and out, how come no can come up with one of an airplane seat or luggage?

Since Flight 77 was approximately only one-quarter full of passengers at the time of take off, there would be 4 times as many seats as there were passengers. The number of empty seats found at the scene should far outnumber the passenger corpses by 4 to 1. Thus, the crash site should have been littered with plane seats (and luggage) everywhere, and yet they were nowhere to be found!

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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #54
55. The right of privacy for family members of the victims trumps
your right to see those photographs.

Now you can cry all day about this. But that's the way it comes down. Game over. The ghouls lose.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #54
56. How would you know...
Edited on Sun Jan-20-08 10:31 PM by SDuderstadt
what the fuck the crash would look like? These are exhibits from a criminal trial. Why would they introduce pictures of luggage?

No matter what evidence is produced and how overwhelming it is or how credible or numerous the witnesses are, you've already closed your mind. Instead of looking for evidence and following it to logical conclusion, you deliberately ignore and deny evidence and reason backwards from a conclusion you want. Pathetic. I am seriously not interested in furthering this conversation. I've had it.
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nebula Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #53
57. What happened to hundreds of passenger seats?
223 of them to be exact. still missing and unaccounted for.






** crickets chirping **




American Airlines Flight 77

Date 11 September 2001
Type Hijacking
Site The Pentagon
Origin Washington Dulles Int'l Airport
Destination Los Angeles International Airport
Passengers 53 (including 5 hijackers)
Crew 6
Fatalities 184 (59 in aircraft, 125 on ground)
Survivors 0
Aircraft
Aircraft type Boeing 757-223
Operator American Airlines
Tail number N644AA


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_Flight_7...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_757
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nebula Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #57
58. No answer?
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LARED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #57
59. How do you know they're missing? - nt
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nebula Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #59
60. Because no one ever saw them. eom.
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #60
61. Because you never saw them.
Edited on Mon Jan-21-08 03:05 PM by boloboffin
Personal incredulity just isn't enough, nebula.

ETA: http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/sept01/2001-09-...

When Williams discovered the scorched bodies of several airline passengers, they were still strapped into their seats. The stench of charred flesh overwhelmed him.

"It was the worst thing you can imagine," said Williams, whose squad from Fort Belvoir, Va., entered the building, less than four hours after the terrorist attack. "I wanted to cry from the minute I walked in. But I have soldiers under me and I had to put my feelings aside."
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nebula Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #61
62. Someone's say-so just isn't enough.


Especially when it's inconsistent with the physical evidence.
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #62
63. Actually it is consistent with the physical evidence.
Your personal incredulity on that topic isn't enough to warrant questioning that either.
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LARED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #62
64. So I'm faced with the choice of
believing you; that states no one saw the seats, having not been at the pentagon yourself. Or of believing someone that was at the pentagon as part of the recovery effort that states he saw bodies in seats?

Does it not strike you as infantile to cling onto your notion that there were no seats because you have not seen them?

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nebula Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #64
65. Your choice is between

1) what the physical evidence shows you. or,
2) believe what the government tells you to believe.

We all know what your preference has been.




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LARED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #65
66. So Army Staff Sgt. Mark Williams
is the government? USA today is the government?

More

Members of Congress have been shuttled to the site to inspect the damage. Rep. Judy Biggert (R-Ill.) made the trip on Thursday. She saw remnants of the airplane.

"There was a seat from a plane, there was part of the tail and then there was a part of green metal, I could not tell what it was, a part of the outside of the plane," she said. "It smelled like it was still burning." Chicago Sun-Times September 16, 2001 Sunday


The body of a flight attendant, her hands bound, was recovered, the New York Times reported yesterday. A worker told the newspaper that he had found the remains of people strapped to what appeared to be airplane seats. The Boston Globe September 16, 2001, Sunday ,THIRD EDITION


One rescuer found the body of a flight attendant, her hands bound. Another worker told the paper he had found the remains of people strapped to what seemed to be airplane seats. The Post and Courier (Charleston, SC) September 16, 2001 Sunday, SUNDAY EDITION

What are not happy until someone provides pictures of bodies strapped to airplane seats? You're a fricken ghoul.

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nebula Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #66
67. Got links?
1) Do you have a link for those quotes?

2) Where did I request to see photos of bodies strapped to chairs?

If you had been paying attention, you would know that the plane seats
outnumbered the passengers 4 to 1, since Flight 77 was only 1/4 full.
So there should have been empty plane seats strewn everywhere
at the crash site, and yet not a single one can be seen in any photo.

The OCT has no problem releasing photos of dead bodies of unknown origin, but
when asked about all those 200+ missing airplane seats (which were far more numerous)
they refuse to respond.



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LARED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #67
68. The quotes are from Lexus Nexus
Edited on Mon Jan-21-08 07:45 PM by LARED
when asked about all those 200+ missing airplane seats (which were far more numerous)
they refuse to respond.


Are you smoking crack>?

Who refuses to respond?
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nebula Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #68
72. Quotes are meaningless
I don't trust what anyone from the government or
the MSM has to say about the crash site.
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #72
73. So any witness at a government building is inherently untrustworthy. n/t
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nebula Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #73
77. Not necessarily
all they have to do is back their statements with, you know...good old-fashioned evidence. Is that too much to ask of our elected officials and MSM? Uhhh, right. When was the last time they ever did that? Circa World War 2?

Yep, those were the good old days.
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LARED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #72
78. So lets see
Flight 77 crashed on a government site. The responders are government employees, the reporters are largly from the MSM. So, is there anyone that may have been at the Pentagon that you would trust?
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nebula Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #78
82. I trust ANYONE in the gov't or media
that can back their statements with solid evidence.

There has been zero proof of such.

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LARED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #82
92. You live in a dream world - nt
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #48
71. Wow.
Edited on Tue Jan-22-08 03:48 PM by SidDithers
Just wow. Fucking unbelievable.

Sid

Edit: Is that what you'd say to the families of these people?
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2001/09/12/victim-c...





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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #44
99. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
deadlikeme13 Donating Member (44 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #15
75. Same as the Flight 93 "crash-site " in Penn. No bodies found!
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #75
79. Wrong.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...


They were exhibits at the Moussaoui trial. Just because you didn't lookm for something, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. In fact, that's the problem with almost all of the "truther" claims. They have failed to do basic primary research and just believe what some goofy website tells them.
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deadlikeme13 Donating Member (44 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #79
83. Two Star Major General Albert Stubblebine disagrees with you. What are YOUR qualifications?
Oh thats right....you don't _have_ any.


http://www.vidilife.com/video_play_968735_U_S_Army_Gene...
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #83
90. Two Star Major General Albert "Walks Into Walls" Stubblebine?
:rofl:
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #83
94. And a large number of high-ranking officers who were actually there that day...
Edited on Tue Jan-22-08 11:21 PM by SDuderstadt
disagree with Stubblebine. Explain that.
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deadlikeme13 Donating Member (44 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #94
107. Explain what? Names Please !!!!
Or is this like your version of the"photographic evidence" of the so-called "bodies" where there isnt even a date posted in the "forensic" photos?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 04:51 PM
Response to Original message
27. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Sweet Pea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 12:38 AM
Response to Original message
38. But...but...but...
I'm still waiting for your "evidence" that the plane flew OVER the Pentagon and landed in the lagoon!!!!

You remember - the 20' deep lagoon that would hide a 44' tall tail?

What happened to THAT red herring? Or perhaps you have changed your mind and the aircraft NOW ended up landing in the north parking and hid behind a kiosk there.

Crack me up, man.
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deadlikeme13 Donating Member (44 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 04:50 PM
Response to Original message
74. Nope. Whatever hit the Pentagon, it wasnt a 757.
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BeachBaby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #74
80. Amen that.
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deadlikeme13 Donating Member (44 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #80
84. Yeap. A 757 fitting into that SMALL hole would be impossible as the General says.
But the gov-spooks here are paided big money to spread disinformation.

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AZCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #84
88. We get "paided big money"?
I wonder where the NWO is sending my checks. I have yet to receive any compensation. Hopefully that will be rectified...
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #88
105. I got paided just last week...
3 guys in dark suits jumped out of a black SUV and personally delivered my cheque.

You should call head office right away.

Sid
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AZCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #105
106. No thanks.
I still have the scars from the last "employee review" I got at head office. I'd rather just eat the time spent (I still have my expense account fortunately - faking YouTube videos ain't cheap).
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Mr_Jefferson_24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 06:19 PM
Response to Original message
81. There was a very conspicuous...
...absence of plane wreckage at all three sites. The only day in American aviation history we've ever had commercial jetliners crashing on U.S. soil, and leaving virtually no trace of the aircrafts -- pretty amazing coincidence.
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deadlikeme13 Donating Member (44 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #81
85. Yeah, steel buildings that crumble and planes that disappear into dust. The 9/11 Magic Show....
Thats what I call it, and like all "magic" it was a fabricated illusion of reality.
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Mr_Jefferson_24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #85
87. Magic Show is a good description for it...
...performed by rank amateur magicians.

Welcome to DU.

:hi:
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deadlikeme13 Donating Member (44 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #87
89. Thanks, Mr_Jefferson_24!!
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