In Rachel's memory

[Englander]

Peter Schumann turns death of activist into agit prop art

October 22, 2004
By Anne Galloway Times Argus Staff
http://www.timesargus.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041022/NEWS/410220314/1011/FEATURES02

>>A group of peace protesters staged a demonstration in the Gaza Strip on March 16, 2003. Members of the International Solidarity Movement tried to block the Israeli Army from razing Palestinian homes in the town of Rafah. Like the other protesters, Rachel Corrie, a 23-year-old college student from Olympia, Wash., used her physical presence to hamper Israeli Army bulldozers for two hours.

>>As Corrie crouched in front of the home of a Palestinian physician, a bulldozer came toward her and didn't stop. According to witnesses, she stood up and the bulldozer kept coming, until her body was pulled underneath. Corrie was crushed and died of massive internal injuries shortly afterward.

>>Peter Schumann, the founder of Glover's Bread and Puppet Theater, has recreated the scene in a series of gripping, agit prop style images in a new exhibition, "U.S. Senate Reads an E-mail by the Late Rachel Corrie to her Parents" at Johnson State College.

>>In this exhibit, Schumann takes his usual, in-your-face anti-propaganda schtick even further. He crowds the room with the paintings, so that the density of the images overwhelms the viewer. It's as though he's letting us know that for him, this particular political statement is a little more personal than usual. Schumann says his daughter was a member of the ISM and had returned from Israel six months before Corrie died.<<

[drdon326]

1. OH Super......Yeah, lets open up the Rachel box......

and we're off.....

[Ardee]

2. a valid remembrance

This young woman's death symbolizes for me the entire Israeli/Palestinian madness. This is a war between cousins, on the one side a people who, better than anyone on this planet, should understand that all peoples have rights, a right to dignity, a right to a homeland, a right to live in peace. On the other side a people devoid of any power save that of sacrificing themselves in awful slaughter in order to gain a bit of land wherein their children might prosper.

I have always felt that the single state solution is the only one that truly benefits both peoples, but fear keeps this from becoming reality, fear that the state of Israel might disappear should full citizenship be granted to the Palestinian cousins....so sad.

[Sara Beverley]

3. Greater love hath no man (or woman) than to lay down his life for another"

Rachel, rest in peace.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Darranar]

17. There is no evidence that she was protecting tunnels. n/t

[Matilda]

5. She is officially "shaheeda", a martyr for the Palestinian cause

and deservedly so.

Courageous and true to her ideals to the end.

[drdon326]

6. Lovely...now the eulogies for dear Saint Rachel......

She was a terror-supporting tunnel-hiding ISM-tool .....good bye Rachy...I'll try not to think of you.

[Violet_Crumble]

7. She was none of those things...

You've been given plenty of chances and never once supplied the slightest shred of evidence. Slurs against dead civilians is pretty stinky, but to be expected in some quarters....

Violet...

[Englander]

8. Absolutely..anyone who holds such views identifies ...

themselves as a repug.

To no great surprise,this thread exposes those who are not interested in debate,but only wish to continue the malicious propaganda
against ISM.

[drdon326]

10. ***yawn***

When you cant argue the facts, pull out the "repug" card and play
it for all its worth.

"anyone who holds such views identifies ... themselves as a repug."

Too funny......so if you dont genuflex at the alter of "the sacred
cow" named Rachel Corrie , you slap the name "repug". New litmus test?

:scared:

[QueerJustice]

15. I aint no repug...

...but happen to agree with you, whenever theres no argument here thats what your called OR 2nd best is to attack the source of the postings instead of the arguments.

[Djinn]

40. so if someone posted an article from

the KKK's website or maybe the National Front you'd think it was a credible piece - if we could remove the hypocracy here it'd be nice, as I seem to remember being told I support terrorist recently - THAT wasn't much of an argument either

[drdon326]

42. EASY......

if the article stated that the KKK and National Front suck , then
i would agree with it.....and you would too.

Each article should be judged on its merits.

It works both ways....there have "pro-palestinian" articles from normally considered RW sources that people have lauded here.

Talk about hypocrisy.

[Djinn]

51. name one

taht I've ever lauded - I wont hold YOU responsible for what other people post and I don't expect to be held responsible for others either.

I wont post from virulently right wing sources not would I ever post from "leftie" sources that are clearly just antisemitic (as opposed to anti-zionist) - any chance you could make the same promise

[Ardee]

18. I do not believe you to be a republican

Nor do I believe you capable of fairness, justice, common sense or compassion, at least in this matter. To level ridiculous charges against a dead young woman who died tragically and needlessly protecting a family's home is so base and miserable as to violate any sense of fair play and makes you less in the eyes of every civilized person.

They bulldozed the damn house, had there been any tunnels there they certainly would have been exposed and mentioned. You are no Aesop yet you insist on fabulizing....pity.

[drdon326]

20. Uhhhhh....gee, I hate to break this to you.....

THE IDF NEVER BULLDOZED THE "DAMN HOUSE". sheesh.

Now before you attack me, perhaps you want to educate yourself re:
Saint Rachel and what happened there.

on edit...I apologize for interfering with your factless rant....
please continue.

[Ardee]

26. Thank you

for clearly showing yourself to be someone not worth conversing with, bye now.

[drdon326]

27. You got guts.....

you made up a totally baseless , non-factual statement...

"They bulldozed the damn house, had there been any tunnels there they certainly would have been exposed and mentioned."

and then accuse me of "fabulizing"....hmmmm.. projection?

You made up a lie,tried to sell it and got caught...and can't admit it.

bye.

[Violet_Crumble]

29. You got more guts than everyone combined, donny...

Unlike yr constant stream of totally baseless, non-factual statements, the most recent including claims that Arafatfans are all over this forum, and that Rachel Corrie was a terrorist trying to save tunnels, Ardee's assumption that the house would have been bulldozed stems from logic - something that's a completely alien concept to some, it seems...

It's been yr continual totally baseless statement (though repeated constantly after being refuted it does become a lie) that the IDF were going to bulldoze the house because it supposedly contained tunnels, then logically the house would have been bulldozed within days of Rachel Corrie being killed. After all, if it contained tunnels before she was killed, then her death doesn't change the fact that they'd still exist. But the home wasn't destroyed after her killing. After it happened, I found an article from a journalist who'd found the home several days later and interviewed the doctor who lived in it. Tunnels, my arse. Tell you what, donny. Considering that on this particular topic you recycle the lies of zealots who claim they support Israel, you try to sell those recycled lies and get caught on it every time, and never ever admit you got caught out, next week when I've got more time I'll wade back through the DU archives and come and post every Rachel Corrie related recycled lie you've been caught out on...

The silence will tell everyone everything they need to know, but it looks like Ardee worked it out without having to see all those links to yr fabrications...

Violet...

[IA_Seth]

33. Hear Hear!

Whooopish!

[Ardee]

34. I choose to ignore those like him

for whom the truth is so malleable.

This execrable poster supposedly abhors terrorism but in reality only abhors the terrorist actions of those with whom he disagrees.He quickly condemns a youngster who, having been raised in a refugee camp, having only despair and no future, makes the poor decision to martyr himself and murders a few Israeli innocents.

Now those of us with conscience and humanity also abhor that action but have the "sechel" to also abhor the slaughter of thousands of innocent Palestinians by the largest terrorist group in the middle east, the Israeli government.

I firmly oppose the continuing martyrdom of human bombs but also and equally condemn the actions of Israeli troops who shoot into crowds of rock throwing children. I pray that Hamas, Hezbollah and Islamic Jihad will cease shooting rockets into Israeli settlements and that Israeli tanks will stop bulldozing peoples homes with them inside, that Israeli warplanes will never again drop 500lb. bombs on an apartment complex in order to murder a Hamas leader, killing him, his two daughters, his wife and a score of people guilty only of living in proximity to that leader.

I trust that, in the fullness of time and the evolutionary progress of our species posters like DrDon will be universally condemned and exposed as agendized propagandists for a cause and a country that is morally,legally and ethically wrong!

[Djinn]

28. when you can't argue facts

just call someone a terrorist supporter and make pancake jokes...

[bpilgrim]

30. sick puppy

peace

[drdon326]

31. bark,bark......

Sick puppy is cool.........

at least you didnt call me a "brother of a monkey and swine".

LOVE ,PEACE ....AND SOUL.

[Djinn]

39. or get aroused at the thought of your death

pot kettle black :eyes:

[Violet_Crumble]

12. No, it's no great surprise...

Because those folk don't operate on facts or the most basic shreds of compassion, they believe that a rapid-fire volley of smears and complete bullshit about a dead peace activist will convince people that they're right and we're all wrong. I think there's good people who can disagree on the I/P conflict, but those who operate the way I just described don't fall into that category and aren't doing their cause any justice at all. None of it comes as any surprise to me, though. One or two folk who shall remain nameless thought the killing of an American citizen was worthy of cracking sick jokes about, while loudly wailing about the deaths of other American citizens who they deem worthy victims. Sick puppies...

Violet...

[QueerJustice]

14. Well said...

[sistersofmercy]

32. Why is that when anyone expresses sympathy for

Palestinian loss and suffering they are labelled terrorist sympathizers or corrobrators? I have never understood this. Isn't it possible that some of us see both sides of the tragedy? I feel for parents of any child who has been murdered, stuck in the crossfire of a conflict hijacked by radicals on both sides. I like to think Rachel had this same view of protecting the innocent. Not every Palestinian is a terrorist and not every Israeli backs Sharon. In fact I know Israelis who have left Israel and would label him as much of a problem to peace as the terrorist.

[Guy_Montag]

54. Can you supply any evidence that she was hiding tunnels?

If you can please do & I will take it on board, if you can't I would appreciate it if you didn't bring it up again.

[drdon326]

9. What Really Happened To Rachel Corrie?

Immediately, some skeptics began to point out inconsistencies between the two photos. The bulldozers pictured are of a different make, as is the Rafah skyline and the nearby land. Their suspicions were confirmed when Joe Smith, an activist with the International Solidarity Movement, revealed that the photos were taken one to three hours apart.

Smith also stated that Corrie was " at least 15 meters in front of the bulldozer ... waving her arms and shouting." Also, the armed bulldozer which was used has windows that are "very small and the visibility is very limited" according to a statement released by the Israel Defense Forces. It certainly paints a different picture than a clearly visible woman standing with a megaphone, doesn`t it?

But after all of this, the International Solidarity Movement seemed to still be unsure about what exactly happened. An ISM press release claimed she was "standing" and was clearly visible to the driver of the bulldozer. Another activist claimed that Corrie had climbed on top of the bulldozer`s plow and then slipped. ISM media coordinator Michael Shaikh claimed that Corrie had climbed on top of a mound of dirt and then was crushed.

So let`s get this straight. Rachel Corrie was standing, sitting, on a mound of dirt and on the bulldozer`s plow -- all at the same time? Amazing! Doesn`t it strike you as odd that these people, who can`t even agree on what exactly happened that day, are fixated on the conclusion that Corrie was intentionally murdered by the IDF?

http://www.ourjerusalem.com/opinion/story/opinion20030808.html
....................................................................

Rachel....Queen of gaza terrorist supporters worldwide.

[Englander]

11. The Incredible Source strikes again...

yet another pro-Bush site cited as source.

[Violet_Crumble]

13. Hey, their FAQ on the I/P conflict is amusing...

This bunch are supporters of Greater Israel. Go figure...

Violet...

[QueerJustice]

16. She truly was not a hero...

..theres nothing good to say about someone who helps terrorists.

[Ardee]

19. certainly not

just as there is liuttle one can say in favor of someone who lets opinion, political or otherwise, minimize the tragic death of a young, committed woman. You certainly should be ashamed.

[Matilda]

22. Since when is someone protesting the demolition of his house

a terrorist? It's an easy, emotive label to slap on to anyone with
whom you happen to disagree - Bush-style propoganda of the worst
kind.

[QueerJustice]

23. Guess you better tell Kerry that...

From all hes said on I/P affairs my hunch is you would accuse him of the same thing (G-d forbid )

[Larkspur]

24. Yes, based on Kerry's pro-Israel bias, I would accuse him of

supporting Israeli terrorism against Palestinian civilians.

And I will continue to oppose Kerry's pro-Israeli bias even if he is elected President.

[IA_Seth]

25. Hallelujah

This is the one issue with which I have yet to identify with Kerry on in any aspect.

To suggest that as a Democrat I have to fall lock-step behind everything Kerry says while on the campaign trail is about as smart as the "Doctor" who doesn't understand the value of light on human life...oh wait, its the same guy.

[Nicky Scarfo]

38. QueerJustice, it would be a really good thing if you could be for

justice beyond the narrow group you self-identify with. Rachel Corrie did, that's what makes her a hero.

[Djinn]

41. or someone who gets his rocks off at the death of others

yet you're doing that as we speak

[QueerJustice]

43. Everything in some peoples life revolves around SEX...

....whats with that?.....

..some people have a LOT of sexual innuendo in their postings....

(kinda like suicide bombers dying just so they can have sex with 72 virgins in heaven(sexual perversion aint no reason for mass murder))

[idontwantaname]

44. hey Dr... lets see some evidence for your statements.

re: rachel corrie helping terrorists
and
re: suicide bombers and 72 virgins in heaven


2 credible sources please.

[QueerJustice]

45. Yawn.....

Too easy...

http://www.memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Area=jihad&ID=IA7401

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=222

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/FJ22Ak03.html

http://www.mideastweb.org/islam_martyrdom.htm

http://education.guardian.co.uk/academicexperts/story/0,1392,945180,00.html

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/asiapcf/southeast/08/17/martyr.culture/


hundreds more...

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=72+virgins+suicide+bomber+belief+martyr&btnG=Google+Search&meta=

[idontwantaname]

50. wake up Dr...

from your top 5 sources...

FrontPageMag.com is an extreme right-wing website supporting books which "Morris and McGann uncover the hidden sides of the complicated and sometimes dysfunctional former president(Clinton)."

Ronald Reagan - The Great Communicator (Complete Set)

and

A Matter Of Character: Inside The White House Of George W. Bush by Ronald Kessler




"Dr. Hathout described the Koran passages as nothing more than folklore, saying that such descriptions of Paradise aren't meant to be taken literally, just as many Christians do not really believe heaven has "streets paved with gold.""
www.memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Area=jihad&ID=IA7401

"To start with, the 72 virgins and the tickets to heaven for the entire family are attributed to the Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) and are not mentioned in the Qur'an...
"Don't take anything from me to write down except the Qur'an. Whoever takes anything from me other than to write down the Qur'an should erase it. And deal with me (or criticise me) without hesitation, and whoever lies on my behalf may he have his seat in the fire of hell" (Sahih Muslim, Vol. 18, p. 229)."
www.mideastweb.org/islam_martyrdom.htm

"Religion is only part of someone's identity. It's a symptom rather than a cause."
education.guardian.co.uk/academicexperts/story/0,1392,945180,00.html

"Without exception, the suicide bombers have lived their lives on the receiving end of a system designed to trample their rights and crush every hope of a brighter future ... Confronted by a seemingly endless combination of death, destruction, restriction, harassment and humiliation, they conclude that ending life as a bomb - rather than having it ended by a bullet - endows them, even if only in their final moments, with a semblance of purpose and control previously unknown"... These acts are not suicides. A suicide is based on individual pathology. The individual who performs suicide bombing do not commit suicide; they are involved in a culture of death. "
www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/FJ22Ak03.html


"...Islamic law prohibits suicide and the killing of innocents, and many bodies, such as Saudi Arabia's Council of Senior Clerics, have said terror acts have no "religious grounds."
www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/asiapcf/southeast/08/17/martyr.culture/

[drdon326]

46. Equally yawn.....

More on Saint Rachel of IHOP and her ISM terror supporters....

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths/mf24.html#p

http://www.jerusalemdiaries.com/article/83

http://jewishworldreview.com/0303/corrie.html

http://www.ourjerusalem.com/opinion/story/opinion20030808.html

http://www.tzemachdovid.org/Facts/MandF/ism.shtml

http://home.comcast.net/~jat.action/ISM_essay_ref15.htm

http://home.comcast.net/~jat.action/ISM_essay.htm#Terrorism

...................................................................

[Englander]

47. The "sources" cited below by the usual suspects are of course..

nonsense. The IDFers here cannot tell the difference between fact and opinion,they will not cite a non-racist, non-repug,credible,fact-based source for the pathetic labelling of ISM as "terrorist-helpers" because there isn't one.

[drdon326]

48. Or.....in other words....

there is no proof that would satisfy you that Saint Rachel and her
lying ISM , that use duplicity and subterfuge to cover their support
of terror, that will ever satisfy the ISM supporters.


btw...i love being part of the "usual suspects"....oink,oink.

[Englander]

49. From this day forth,I shall name you "Keyser".....

honestly,me old china,the web-sites you come up with are so rancid they're stinking out the whole forum.....
You're not posting proof, you are citing biased, anti-left opinion.

[Djinn]

52. if you'd been here any amount of time you'd klnow

what this was referring to - perhaps you could discuss with don who you seem to agree with rather a lot - the repugnance of getting "aroused" by the deaths of people, including children.

Until you have a clue as to what you're takling about perhaps you could abstain from making comment on it?

[Djinn]

53. Just a tip don

I, like you, don't really like the "you're a repug" line of argument, but it might reduce this likelihood if you stop posting from sources that are virulently pro-Bush.

I dunno maybe it just confuses people that the "leftist" source you ever post from is JPost??

[Guy_Montag]

55. Just so everyone knows what sort of source your using

"Sending George W. Bush back to his Texas ranch next week, will be a victory for the Bin-Ladens and Sadaams."

http://www.ourjerusalem.com/opinion/story/opinion20041031a.html

[number6]

21. In Rachel's memory ....

:kick:

[bemildred]

35. Kick for this saintly defender of peace, love, and freedom.

O8)

[number6]

36. kick

:kick:for this saintly defender of peace, love, and freedom.

saint Rachel O8) ;)

[Nicky Scarfo]

37. She was an evil terrorist. And she distributed kiddie porn. (Sarcasm) nt

[Englander]

56. "My Name Is Rachel Corrie"- at Royal Court Theatre,London

Taken from the writings of Rachel Corrie
MY NAME IS RACHEL CORRIE

Directed by Alan Rickman

Why did a 23-year-old woman leave her comfortable American life to stand between a bulldozer and a Palestinian home?

The short life and sudden death of Rachel Corrie, and the words she left behind


MY NAME IS RACHEL CORRIE has been developed by Alan Rickman and Katharine Viner, in collaboration with the Royal Court International Department. With the kind permission of Rachel Corrie's family.

http://www.royalcourttheatre.com/productions_future.asp

[Scurrilous]

57. Alan Rickman?

Of Die Hard and Harry Potter fame? Directing a play about Rachel Corrie? Doesn't he know that Rachel Corrie was a terrorist loving protector of terror tunnels? Amazing! :thumbsup:

[pelsar]

58. my first response....Rachel....

I dont doubt her idealism...however standing infront an armored bulldozer with very very limited vision and assuming that they can either hear you or see you is not a very smart thing to do.

anybody who hangs around heavy machinery,and especially armored military vehicles (with very limited vision and lots of radio chatter), knows that in areas with people walking around, they require someone to direct them...someone outside who the driver knows to watch.

This is one of those things where if you've been in one, then its obvious...be it as a tank driver, apc driver, bulldozer etc....you simply dont see much. Add some dust in the air from the tracks, and your vision is even more limited.

and there is also the mentality, those things move around as they feel like it in Gaza, especially in a sniper area (where she was killed)....she may have been idealistic but she was also lacking in experience. Too many times Europeans/ameicans believe that their passport gives them superpowers in the war zone of gaza.....it doesnt.

[Englander]

60. Look out below....it's The Incredibles!!!!

Gasp in amazement as "facts" are stretched to breaking point...

Yawn with disbelief as a situation is spun so that the victim is blamed..

Watch wide-eyed as they carry the weight of Sharon on their shoulders..

To be contd......

[drdon326]

61. Speaking of "incredible"...Englander...help me out....

you seem to have a deep understanding of the events....theres a wee bit of controversey re: her game of chicken with the bulldozer.

At the time of her untimely demise, was Saint Rachel of Butterworth...

A.standing
B.sitting
C.on a mound of dirt
D.on the bulldozer`s plow




PLEASE USE #2 PENCIL.

[Englander]

62. And the only people who perpetuate...

this propaganda that it was an "accident" are approaching from the right....how fucked is that?

Everyone else, everyone who looks at this,realises this was a murder of an unarmed activist,not something to be supported by anyone claiming to be interested in human rights or international justice,or humanitarian law.

[Scurrilous]

63. And the only people who make...

...pancake jokes about her death also are from the right...doubly fucked!

[drdon326]

64. Whoa !! No Answer...What a surprise.

Avoid the question,deny ,delay, and obfuscate

C'mon...i'll give you a second chance.

Everyone else, everyone who looks at this,realises this was a murder of an unarmed activist.

Since you are SOOOO SURE IT WAS MURDER, YOU MUST HAVE ALL THE FACTS.

At the time of her untimely demise, was Saint Rachel of Butterworth...

A.standing
B.sitting
C.on a mound of dirt
D.on the bulldozer`s plow

[Englander]

66. "Fact=a thing that has actually happened or is true"

Just to remind you as you obviously have nae idea of the definition of said word.

Again,it's an education to read your posts..I mean how else would I know what the right was thinking?

http://electronicintifada.net/bytopic/people/8.shtml

[drdon326]

71. "What we have here....is failure to communicate" (CHLuke)

Again you didnt answer the simple question I asked you.

YOU claimed she was murdered.Thats a pretty bold statement and the proof you give me is some filthy one sided propaganda eulogy piece that fails to answer what she was doing at the time of her death.

Since you know all the facts that lead you to assert that she was in fact "MURDERED", THEN answering this simple question should be sooo easy for someone with your advanced knowledge of the events.

So for the third and hopefully last time...

At the time of her untimely demise, was Saint Rachel of Butterworth...

A.standing
B.sitting
C.on a mound of dirt
D.on the bulldozer`s plow






(AS for your pathetic vile innuendo about what the "right is thinking" .I wont even dignify it)

[Englander]

73. Keep clicking yer heels,Dorothy....

Keep on keeping on with your own personal war against logic,reason,reality,fact,&tc....

Can one not be of the "right",when the sources,sentiments & views expressed are? Discuss.

:crazy:

[drdon326]

74. No problem.....

Apparently reading comprehension may not be your strong suit.

No, I will not let you backpedal off YOUR claim that our "hero" Ms. Corrie was "MURDERED".

Keep on keeping on with your own personal war against logic,reason,reality,fact,&tc....

And when I ask you a question 3 times regarding the FACTS AND REALITY of the case you refuse to answer. Who is at war??...reality check time.

Yet everyone reading this has now seen 3 times that you were unwilling to answer the simplist of questions.....rather than admit the obvious, which is the facts of her untimely demise are clouded in confusion and that ALL FOUR versions have been reported at the time.And that no murder could be accused when the facts are so clouded ...yet YOU did !!!

So instead of admitting your pathetic accusation has no basis in fact,you decided to play the "right-wing" card figuring that would help you dig yourself out. Shameless.

Since everyone has seen this discussion and the outrageous accusation you made and your failure to back it up and your attempt to divert the discussion, I will not repost the question.

Enjoy the opening of MY NAME IS RACHEL CORRIE .....I'm sure it
will be real event.

eom

[Englander]

75. Oh,the shame.....

Having to answer yer own "question" 'cos I wouldn't play!

Once again,who suggests that this incident was an accident and not a deliberate killing,a murder?

On which side of the political spectrum? Is there anyone on the left who puts forward this viewpoint? Who are the "talking heads" or columnists or politicians or newspapers which declare that Ms Corrie was anything other than an activist?

If there are any on the "left",then I must have missed them.



Curious concepts courtesy of Socrates,I think,and later Marx & Engels;

"If something looks,walks,acts & quacks like a duck,is it a duck?"

:eyes:

[drdon326]

76. You're serious, aren't you?

So thats your argument.....finally.

Since the so called "left" says it it must be true...and since the so-called "right" says it , it must be false.

Real impressive argument you have there....you must have done well in debating classes.

No critical thinking on your part.

No questions on your part.

No use you looking at the facts.

Just walk in lock-step with the crowd.Please embarrass yourself some more.


Listen, if you want to keep digging a hole for yourself , fine by me.

This thread has been fun.

[Englander]

77. Well,since DU is a left-leaning site....

I'm walking with this crowd.Finally admitting you're not?Freudian slip there,old cock?

To be clear,who is saying this was not a murder?

No-one on the "left".
Any politicians of any party?
Any credible media outlet?
Any journalists anywhere?

______________________
Comment
On rescuing Private Lynch and forgetting Rachel Corrie

The Israeli army got away with murder - and now all activists are at risk

Naomi Klein
Thursday May 22, 2003
The Guardian
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/comment/0,10551,961025,00.html

Unlike Lynch, Corrie did not go to Gaza to engage in combat: she went to try to thwart it. Along with her fellow members of the International Solidarity Movement (ISM), she believed that the Israeli military's incursions could be slowed by the presence of highly visible "internationals". The killing of Palestinian civilians may have become commonplace, the thinking went, but Israel doesn't want the diplomatic or media scandals that would come if it killed a US student.

In a way, Corrie was harnessing the very thing that she disliked most about her country: the belief that American lives are worth more than any others - and trying to use it to save a few Palestinian homes from demolition.

Believing her fluorescent orange jacket would serve as armour, Corrie stood in front of bulldozers, slept beside wells and escorted children to school. If suicide bombers turn their bodies into weapons of death, Corrie turned hers into the opposite - a weapon of life, a "human shield".

When that Israeli bulldozer driver looked at Corrie's orange jacket and pressed the accelerator, her strategy failed. It turns out that the lives of some US citizens - even beautiful, young, white women - are valued more than others. And nothing demonstrates this more starkly than the opposing responses to Rachel Corrie and Pte Jessica Lynch.

[pelsar]

65. englander....bulldozer accidents

Seems to me that what the driver can see or cant see is not anybody here (anybody here drive/sit in an armored D9?) can claim. Once again by looking at the environment realistically its quite easy to see how it happens, if it happens in civilian peaceful environments I would ask why couldnt it happen in a war zone with a bulldozer that has far less visabiliity?.......Or we can take it further...automobile drivers with almost complete 360 visability with same height and no obstructions "run over people every day....if we follow the logic that the buldozer operator saw Rachel, well then then how could all those people being run over by cars also "not be seen"

the answer? is that it can. And dispite the fact that those bulldozers run all round Gaza without "running over anybody else, is because the palestenains know to stay far away from them, they understand how limited the drivers vision is. Rachel for whatever her reason, lack of experience, believer in the power of her passport, simply didnt understand how dangerous a game she was playing...

....of course we find ourselves once again faced with the IDF simply doesnt make mistakes syndrom...or the falicy of the power of the foreign passport.....both are false.

[Englander]

67. The automobile/ bulldozer comparison........

has got to be the most fuckin' ridiculous analogy I have ever heard..!! I think your powers of persuasion have failed you.

[QueerJustice]

68. Its all irrelevant...

If you play with fire you gonna be burnt, If you enable terrorists hopefully somthin bad will happen to you.....

....somethin bad happened to her...it probably saved innocent lives tho....Good riddance.

[Englander]

70. Again,acquaint yerself with the history of Israel....

how would you describe Irgun?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun

[pelsar]

69. do accidents even happen?

Rachel was neither important nor threatening nor special in the eyes of the IDF. She was just one more foreigner playing around in Gaza (Gazas gots tons of them from journalists, to UN personal to visiting dignitaries.....)

I suspect the ISM likes to think of themselves as a threatening force...they arent, they are nice middle class bourgouis people who have found a cause-and they are not in their element in a war zone.

People get killed in war zones, civilian/peacetime rules dont apply. Its a pretty simple fact. It really doesnt make much difference how much people may "cry" for her death. Getting in the way of a military vehicle, disrupting a military operation in a war zone is simply playing with fire. The more I think about it, its really irelevant the reason for her death. The ISM has clearly stated that their goal is the "non-violent direct-action in defense of the civilian population of Palestine", except that they also interfere with military operations that are going after palestenian fighters and their infrastructure.....Now if perhap they also looked for Kasam rockets before they were fired, that then might be an eye opener...but they dont, nor do they even pretend to. They have chosen their side in this war, they are not the innocent they like to pretend they are.

[Englander]

72. Yes,that Alan Rickman............

He,quite rightly,feels that the voice of this brave young woman deserves a wider audience.

Other plays that deal with diff. subjects but in a similar style;

GUANTANAMO 'Honor Bound to Defend Freedom'
http://www.tricycle.co.uk/htmlnew/whatson/show.php3?id=55

Stuff Happens
http://www.nationaltheatre.org.uk/?lid=8705

Justifying War
http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/politicaltheatre/story/0,13298,1077497,00.html

[number6]

59. cool

;)

[Lithos]

78. Locking

Discussion has grown personal.

Lithos
I/P Moderator
Democratic Underground