BBC blasted for ‘bigoted fear-mongering’

[shergald]

From the Jerusalem Post:

February 22, 2010

"The New York-based American Jewish Committee blasted the BBC on Sunday for airing an accusation that Jews around the world assist in supposed Mossad assassinations.

The AJC said in a statement that it was “dismayed that a guest on BBC Radio 4 was allowed to state unchallenged” that the Mossad relies on Jews for assassination plots.

“This baseless accusation crosses every red line between legitimate public discussion and bigoted fear-mongering,” said AJC executive director David Harris. “In less than a minute, the BBC has cast a shadow on the lives of Jews worldwide.”

BBC Radio 4’s PM program interviewed Gordon Thomas, author of Gideon’s Spies, a book about the Mossad, about the January 20 assassination of Hamas military commander Mahmoud al-Mabhouh in Dubai."

http://www.jpost.com/International/Article.aspx?id=169316

[shergald]

1. Two points of interest:

1) A conspiracy theory the likes of which will should bring out the troops on both sides.

2) That the AJC, the American Jewish Committee, is at the forefront of this criticism of a British based news agency, the BBC, might strike one as odd, until we are informed that the Israel Lobby has moved to Europe. The AJC has offices in numerous European countries, and possibly London as well. It's not just for the US any more.

[oberliner]

3. "Possibly London as well" ?

What are you talking about?

They "possibly" have a London office? Is it a secret office of some kind?

[shergald]

4. 'The Israel Lobby goes to Europe'

"Now, like America over the decades, European countries can watch as their governing bodies fall prey to pro-Israel lobbyists ready to propose AIPAC-like legislation favoring Israel, especially censorship and defunding of organizations and critics of Israel. According to this report by Cecile Surasky of Muzzlewatch, the American based Israel Lobby organization, American Jewish Committee, is expanding operations in Europe in order to influence perceptions of Israel, whose brand went into the tank after the Gaza massacre a year ago, but also, presumably to work to influence legislation and elections in key European countries.

The AJC already maintains offices in Berlin, Brussels (Transatlantic Institute), Geneva (UN Watch), Paris and Rome."

http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2010/2/11/11631/1934

[oberliner]

5. Watch their governing bodies "fall prey" to pro-Israel lobbyists?

Wow.

[LeftishBrit]

6. Just flipping wow

That sounds like a whole lot of paranoid.

Yes, Israeli and Jewish organizations no doubt present their own cases to the media - same as everyone does! There's no sinister conspiracy. And as Oberliner says, what does your source mean about 'possibly an office in London'. London isn't exactly an obscure corner of the world where no one would know if there's an office or not. Or is the idea that someone is nefariously using a dentist's surgery or music school or something as a front for that evil lobbyists' office! (And how would a secret office be very effective in influencing the media anyway? Influencing the media is all about getting publicity and NOT being secretive.)

If you want to worry about the British media, you'd do better to worry about the anti-immigrant hatemongering tabloids.

[shergald]

7. Well, check out this video about the Israel Lobby in Britain.

http://www.presstv.ir/programs/detail.aspx?sectionid=3510540

There is no doubt that the Brits are thoroughly familiar with the influence of the Israel Lobby in the US on legislation, even writing some of their own. The question for Britain is, does it want to have to deal with this intrusion into their government?

[LeftishBrit]

8. Sorry...

but I will believe my own lying British eyes on matters involving the British media before I will believe the Iranian government-run media on that particular subject.

[shergald]

9. The participants are not Iranian. But here's more from a UK source.

Israeli agents go on PR offensive

By Ben Lynfield in Jerusalem
Saturday, 20 February 2010

"Israel is sending more agents abroad, this time on an even more difficult mission: to project a peaceful and positive image of the Jewish state.

As part a new government campaign every citizen travelling overseas becomes an ambassador. But launched in the same week that images aired of suspected Mossad agents preparing to assassinate a Hamas leader in a luxury Dubai hotel, the timing couldn't be worse."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israeli-agents-go-on-pr-offensive-1905138.html

[LeftishBrit]

16. Israel, like most places, certainly has its propagandists and spin doctors.

This does not, however, mean that they have some sort of sinister control of the British media.

If you want someone who does have sinister control of some parts of the British media, look no further than Rupert Murdoch - much more of a danger here than anyone Israeli.

[shergald]

10. The issue is about a American org that is part of the Israel Lobby in the US, moving to Europe.

The American Jewish Committee? Get it, "American."

If you have any idea of what it might mean for your government, read the book, The Israel Lobby. Or ask a former Congresswoman, Cynthia McKinney, or a Congresswoman from Minnesota (name?), who alleged she was threatened by an AIPAC member, and went public: "who the hell do they think they are?" She was reelected for another term.

[oberliner]

11. The AJC has always been focused on Europe

It's founding was in relation to the pogroms being committed against Jews in Russia. They also addressed issues connected to anti-semitism in eastern Europe (specifically Poland, and a few other countries) in the years leading up to (and including) World War 2.

Were they part of the "Israel lobby" before there was an Israel? That's pretty amazing.

[shergald]

25. I'm happy to hear of this work in fighting European anti-Semitism.

But today, the organization, like the ADL, is focusing primarily on supporting Israel. As I recall, one leader of the group provided a guideline of anti-Semitism for the EU. One criterion, that "criticism of Israel is anti-Semitic," was rejected. That, however, was not the point. The point was that it made clear the "new" direction of this organization.

And I can only expect that through its many European offices, it will continue to act mainly as a proIsrael group. That in itself is not a problem except that, as part of the American Israel Lobby, like AIPAC, it has taken a right wing Likud slant. They seem to be working against the goals of peace orgs like Peace Now, Jewish Voice for Peace, and others, if I can name but a few of the mainly Jewish organizations involved in attaining Middle East peace.

[oberliner]

26. I respectfully disagree with your overall assessment of the AJC

I think their primary focus is identifying and speaking out against anti-semitism, of which the OP you posted is one example.

[shergald]

30. We're here to disagree.

But calling people you disagree with anti-Semitic, in my opinion should be cause for banning.

[oberliner]

32. Has someone done that?

I do not see where someone was called anti-semitic in this thread.

[azurnoir]

28. Betty McCollum would be the name

she's my congress critter but I have never heard about her being threatened by AIPAC, we're kind of off AIPAC's beaten track here in MN

could you PM any link you have for that?

[oberliner]

31. Is your Google broken?

It's stunning that someone who follows politics and the I/P conflict as closely as you do (and who is so well-versed in obtaining information online) would be completely unaware of this notorious incident and would need someone to PM you a link for information on this topic.

Perhaps you can start here:

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/19063

[azurnoir]

34. I was being cautious about links

and no I had not previously heard of this incident apparently Ms McCollum was not cowed

[Douglas Carpenter]

33. Richard Silverstein wrote an article about the whole matter on his blog

link:

http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2006/05/26/aipac-calls-congressional-opponent-supporter-of-terrorism/

[azurnoir]

35. Thank you

I had not heard of this before and am kind of surprised

[dipsydoodle]

2. Who else would they rely on ?

The Pastafarians who worship the great spaghetti monster ? :shrug:

[cali]

12. wow. has this thread gotten off track

The AJC is exactly right about this. If the BBC actually was unchallenged in this bigoted remark, that's not a good thing. It's no better than saying that all Palestinians want to kill Jews. It's sick shit. duh.

[Douglas Carpenter]

13. common human empathy tells me that those comments are terrible and the BBC handling of this was way

out of bounds. If the intent was or was not bigoted - it is certainly undeniable that a reasonable person could take such comments that way. It is equally undeniable that such statements that were made - apparently unchallenged - could have the effect of casting suspicion on Jewish people in general.

I have been known at times to make a scene when people say things that implicate Arab or Muslim people in such a way that might cast suspicion on Arab and Muslim people in general. I have told people that if you want to know if something is bigoted or sounds bigoted; try substituting Arabs or Muslims with other groups such as black, gay or Jews and then ask yourself if that sounds bigoted, If it does, then it probably is bigoted.

this is the comment from the BBC report that I find most disturbing:

In explaining the Mossad’s operating methods outside Israel, Thomas told PM host Eddie Mair, “They have a whole backup system called ‘asylum.’ These are people, local residents, Jewish people, who help the Mossad. It is estimated to be in the world about half a million; some people say a million; I tend to say it’s about half a million, all of them Mossad people.”

http://www.jpost.com/International/Article.aspx?id=169316

If I followed my own advice and did a substitution that went something like this; " These are people, local residents, Muslim people, who help Al Qaeda. It is estimated to be in the world about half a million; some people say a million; I tend to say it’s about half a million, all of them Al Qaeda people.”

I would find such speculation to be way out of bounds and would be the kind of comment that a reasonable person might find bigoted and such comments would tend to cast suspicion on Muslims in general and is the kind of statement that would reinforce racist and bigoted notions.

Common human empathy tells me that this BBC report is reporting at its very worse and is the kind of reporting that could likely reinforce anti-Semitic notions.

The issue of the Israeli lobby in Europe is an entirely different issue and has nothing to do with this kind of disgraceful reporting. Critiquing political lobbies is one thing. Casting suspicion on a whole people is another - be it Arabs. Muslims, Jews, immigrants or anyone else.

[LeftishBrit]

14. Great post.

'Critiquing political lobbies is one thing. Casting suspicion on a whole people is another - be it Arabs. Muslims, Jews, immigrants or anyone else.'

Agreed.

The BBC - contrary to some on all sides - is not in the systematic habit of bigotry of any sort (at least not compared with our tabloids, or your Fox News); but sometimes it happens, and needs to be condemned when it does.

[Douglas Carpenter]

23. I totally agree, BBC surely got this story wrong and has gotten other stories wrong

and it can show its own biases at times. Nonetheless, BBC World Service is still far and away superior to any major American commercial network.

[bemildred]

17. Does sound rather hare-brained.

OTOH, if he did say it, then that might be news. OTOH, he is sort of obviously selling his book, so I can agree with the idea that there is no need to help him out by treating that as "news". What passes for "news" now is bad enough as it is. OTOH, the BBC has been unreliable for a long time now.

So, I gotta agree here, they ought to have ignored this twit.

[shaayecanaan]

18. I agree

This last assassination was in Dubai. Not many Jews there to provide assistance. They also killed a waiter in Norway. Not many Norwegian Jews, either. They killed Salameh in Lebanon and I know for a fact that there are hardly any Jews in Lebanon. So the whole premise is rather dubious.

However, I agree that the fact that a book writer apparently said this in an interview falls considerably short of what I would normally consider "news".

[bemildred]

19. Thank you. nt

[Donald Ian Rankin]

24. Consider the numbers.

"Half a million Al Quaeda people" is about 1 in every 2000-3000 muslims. I'm quite sure the number of active members of Al-Quaeda is massively lower than 500,000. It wouldn't surprise me if there were that many people who sympathised with them and would be willing to assist them if asked, but I imagine the number of people who have actually had any form of contact whatsoever with Al Quaeda is significantly smaller than that - not necessarily by many orders of magnitude if you count "expressed support on a chatroom", but definately by many orders of magnitude if you count "actually done anything".

"Half a million Mossad people" is about 1 in every 20-30 Jews. I imagine that the fraction of Israeli Jews who would be willing to assist Mossad if asked is well above 1 in 20, but that the fraction who have actually been asked is much smaller than that. For Jews outside Israel, the fraction who would even be willing to cooperate if asked is probably significantly smaller than 1/20, and the fraction who have actually been asked will be orders of magnitude smaller still.


If the BBC had been giving its "editorial voice" to the comments, I think that would be fairly clear evidence of anti-semitism. Interviewing someone who voiced them, however, is quite a different matter, in my view.

[Douglas Carpenter]

29. well I agree. I don't think BBC was being anti-Semitic but they were engaging in sloppy reporting

by allowing this author who expressed views - unchallenged by the interviewer - that could reasonably be interpreted as anti-Semitic and could reasonably be thought to be the kind of claims that could encourage anti-Semitic notions.

If someone who claimed expert authority appeared on a highly respected media outlet - made claims that purported to be factual that could put it into peoples minds that their neighbor down the street or their corner shop keeper might either by a Mossad agent or an Islamist terrorist - I would hope responsible journalist would see the need to challenge such assertions.

That being said, over all I think the BBC is one of the finest news services in the world.

[cali]

15. I find it sad that your concern is that the AJC

has offices in Europe. Evidently the bigotry and hate toward Jews in the comments the AJC objected to, doesn't bother you.

[shergald]

20. That's not what the diary said.

There are many Jewish organizations in Britain which could have spoken up to refute this conspiracy theory, without a faction of the (American) Israel Lobby getting involved. The Israel Lobby has one purpose in mind, defending Israel, its continuing occupation and colonization of Palestinian lands, and to influence governments to take a pro-Israel stance. In other words, it intends to replicate the role of the Israel Lobby in America.

Now you can argue about the value of that role, but in my mind it has been damaging to America.

[cali]

21. that's what all your posts in this thread were about

it couldn't be clearer. I'm familiar with you. I know what your agenda is and I'm sorry to see it here at DU, dear.

[shergald]

27. I blog for Palestine. Find that a problem?

By contrast, you appear to blog for Israel. Is that a problem?

Yes, the conspiracy theory nonsense does not deserve more than a few words. But the AJC does. Did I happen to post a diary here called, "The Israel Lobby goes to Europe" as a message? There is concern about AJC because it's primary goal appears to be to influence governments in the same way AIPAC attempts the same thing in the US to support Israel, Israel right or wrong, the ethnic cleansings, the 40 year occupation, the colonization of Palestinians lands, whose criticism we might not hear again over there.

So AJC and the others are a concern.

[oberliner]

22. The AJC regularly comments on worldwide anti-semitism

Not sure why you are suggesting that because they are an American organization that they ought not to make a comment.

Many US-based groups make comments and share criticisms on a wide variety of international topics.

[shergald]

36. And most people would be glad that they do.

It is really the fact that, like the ADL, they have gotten into the business of defending Israel, its occupation of the Palestinians, their ethnic cleansing, and the colonization of their lands, that is troublesome. It is as if they are trying to pump up the old meme, that criticism of Israel is anti-Semitic and that anyone who delves into Israel criticism is a target of their organization.

They are not the only proIsrael organization to increase their profile in Europe, but their purpose is far from concern with bigotry and prejudice. It is to defend Israel whatever they do and influence European governments to become proIsrael. The EU has been much more forceful of late, especially since the Gaza massacre.