"I am a prisoner at Abu Ghraib"

[iverglas]

In case anybody misses it in LBN:
http://www.macleans.ca/topstories/world/article.jsp?content=20040524_81255_81255

Macleans is "the Canadian Time".

May 24, 2004

Letters From Hell

'The torture usually begins at 12 p.m., 3 p.m. and 4 a.m.'
ADNAN R. KHAN recounts how he secretly corresponded with an inmate of Abu Ghraib prison.

ADNAN R. KHAN

"I AM A PRISONER at Abu Ghraib." With those words, Mohammed Jassim al-Jabouri and I began our short-lived correspondence. It was a haunting first sentence, in a letter smuggled out of Iraq's most notorious prison by a local worker not long after disturbing images of torture and abuse surfaced in the media. Despite the words' simplicity, they were chilling -- as is the rest of this story. After three short letters, my go-between has disappeared, there has been no more correspondence from Mohammed, and his family lives in fear after American troops searched their home.

Here's the bit that relates to our discussion here:

Mohammed's brother explained that he had been arrested five months ago during a raid on the car repair shop where he worked. The family hadn't seen or heard from him since. "I know the shop had a couple of AK-47s," he said, "but every business has weapons. These are dangerous times."

What I'm thinking, you see, is that some of our "RKBA"ers should take this tale to their brethren and sistren in arms, the Republican and otherwise right-wing, war-mongering ones, and ask what they think of their government's persecution of honest, law-abiding Iraqi citizens who were merely exercising their right to defend self and property by owning a weapon that every honest, law-abiding US citizen ought to be able to own ...

.

[OpSomBlood]

1. The Republicans are not our "brothers in arms".

That's why we post here. And as we have noted, historically just as much gun control legislation has been passed by Republicans.

As for Iraq, the private gun situation is just one of the many contributors to the total clusterfuck. We want to bring them
"freedom," but not that much.

[iverglas]

2. uh

The Republicans are not our "brothers in arms"

I guess I'd thought the context was obvious.

I was referring to the fellow "RKBA"ers on all those "RKBA" boards we've been discussing. The ones who rather strongly tend to be, in addition to anti-firearms control, pro-invasion/occupation of Iraq. The ones who may need educating as to why Democrats are good and Republicans are bad.

This -- the arrest and torture, by the US military under the command of George W. Bush, of honest, law-abiding Iraqi citizens just trying to earn a living, for possession of a firearm -- being certainly a persuasive argument to offer them for supporting the Democrats rather than the Republicans, no?

.

[OpSomBlood]

3. OK, I see what you're saying.

Sorry for the miscommunication...too early, no coffee.

Yes, the situation in Iraq is quite a paradox, isn't it? The same Republicans who claim to be the friend of the American gun owner meanwhile are doing the exact "gun grabbing" in Iraq they warn us about if we elect Democrats.

Being pro-gun is politically convenient for the GOP. I truly doubt they really give a crap about our rights.

[iverglas]

4. so don't tell me

Tell those brethren and sistren:

I own guns --
and I'm a Democrat and I'm proud!

.

[OpSomBlood]

7. Here's a start.

http://floridashootersnetwork.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php3?t=1191

http://floridashootersnetwork.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php3?t=1117

http://floridashootersnetwork.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php3?t=984

http://floridashootersnetwork.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php3?t=977

http://floridashootersnetwork.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php3?t=619

http://floridashootersnetwork.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php3?t=396

[iverglas]

9. alrighty then!

Now I'm sure you're anxious to ask 'em about Mohammed!

Maybe if you post a pic of his gun, he'll get more sympathy?

I'm surprised more of your colleagues aren't eager to join in. I've spent time playing on anti-choice discussion boards; toying with the right-wing loons can be quite entertaining.

And you really never know when you might actually enlighten/persuade someone. I have several notches on my belt in that regard.

.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Township75]

13. Gee, bench....

it seems as if the GOP is pushing your agenda...in Iraq (snicker).

You should be out supporting them. Who knows, maybe away from DU you are....after all he his pushing common sense gun control in Iraq.

[MrBenchley]

14. Yeah...

Funny they can have what we can't have here, isn't it?

"You should be out supporting them."
The bullets for brains crowd does enough of that here, town. And it's way-y-y-y-y-y noticeable that you guys are utterly unwilling to make even the faintest pro-Democrat peep on any gun nut forum.

[OpSomBlood]

15. Why aren't you cheerleading on right-wing pro-war military sites?

Because it seems that you and the military have gun control methodologies in common.

[MrBenchley]

16. Gee, op...

Because I'm not a fucking idiot. Unlike some people.

[OpSomBlood]

17. Now you know why we don't post on right-wing gun sites.

For the same reason you don't post on right-wing military sites.

[MrBenchley]

18. Too TOO funny...

None of those are supposed to be "right wing gun sites" op....they're supposed to be "honest gun owners' sites" hahahahaha....

But of course, both of us know what's really hiding under that "gun rights" sheet...

And I'm not a right wing military type, although it don't seem to bother some folks to troll discussion boards under false pretenses to advance an agenda...

[beevul]

20. Chuckle...

"But of course, both of us know what's really hiding under that "gun rights" sheet..."

Nope...Hows about you enlighten us.


"The blue shirts, six of whom said they were from Downstate, were all middle-age white men. They looked like such an unusual bunch at the trial of a young African-American defendant charged with a victimless crime that Linn asked them before the proceedings got under way if they were "part of some class or something."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/ericzorn/chi-0405180368may18,1,866950.column?coll=chi-news-nav

[MrBenchley]

21. Happy to, beev....

Notice all the "pro-gun democrats" speaking up over here....oops, there aren't any.

http://www.glocksunlocked.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=8977&st=0

http://www.glocksunlocked.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=8977&st=15

http://www.glocksunlocked.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=8977&st=30

http://www.glocksunlocked.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=8977&st=45

[MrBenchley]

5. Worth reminding everyone

that the proposed Iraqi constitution has the kind of gun control, we can't get here because of the GOP...as well as the kind of mandated healthcare that we can't get here because of the GOP.

It's also worth noting that the most pro-gun pResident in history is also the scummiest one in history. But then look at the wowsers pushing the rotten RKBA creed in American public life...like the shitheels in the Second Amendment Caucus.

[OpSomBlood]

8. Are the two somehow correlated?

It's also worth noting that the most pro-gun pResident in history is also the scummiest one in history.

Considering that Bush has said he'll sign the AWB renewal if it crosses his desk (to the NRA's chagrin), I find your "most pro-gun in history" assertion questionable.

But no argument, he certainly is the scummiest one ever.

[MrBenchley]

10. Yeah, I think they are...

Scummy is as scummy does...and the semi-psychotic, not very bright kid who tortured frogs and shot his brothers with a bb gun has grown up to be the NRA's favorite president ever.





"I find your "most pro-gun in history" assertion questionable."
Yeah, but who cares what YOU think?

"During the presidential elections I made a lot of speeches.
I said that if Bush won, NRA could work out of the White House.
I took some heat for that bit of hyperbole. The media had a field day. They ran the clip over and over.
Let me tell you what they didn’t run.
I’d been telling people that for eight ugly years, Clinton and Gore and Reno ran the gun-ban movement out of the White House. Sarah Brady was a Rose Garden fixture.
Our kind of freedom is offensive to elitists—people who hate us are the same people who hate basic American values. NRA haters are the freedom haters. And they’re all part of the same crowd.
The social elites, the academic elites, the United Nations elites, the news anchor elites, the big-city-boss elites, they’re gun haters. They’re Second Amendment haters. They’re contemptuous of the military. They’re hunting haters. They’re SUV haters. They loathe George Bush. They’re liberation-of-Iraq haters."

http://www.nrapublications.com/archives/freedom.asp

In other words they're everybody who isn't a far right wing fuckwit.

[OpSomBlood]

11. And what of Bush's plan to sign AWB renewal?

He has stated many times that he will sign AWB renewal if it gets through Congress.

[MrBenchley]

12. So what?

He hasn't done dick to make it happen. But then nobody wants those guns back on the market except the handful of psychos who make up his core constituency. It's hardly "anti-gun" to go along with something that 80% of the country wants....if he announced otherwise, he'd lose his last claim to be a moderate on anything.

He named an NRA life member Attorney General and pushed hard for that idiotic gun lobby "immunity for liability" bill...and Kerry handed him his ass on it.

[natasha1]

22. This is surprising?

that the proposed Iraqi constitution has the kind of gun control, we can't get here because of the GOP...

I don't know why you keep bringing this up. It should be obvious what is going on.

Our constitution specifically includes provisions to arm the people, because the people who wrote it had just overthrown an oppressive government and knew what it took to do it.

Iraq's constitution was put in place by an oppressive government seeking to ensure its control over the people it is oppressing - of course they are going to seek to limit the ability of the oppressed to resist!

The fact that W is pro-gun is not what makes him the scummiest president in history.

Nat

[MrBenchley]

23. Gee, it's obvious why I keep bringing it up...

Because everybody sane thinks gun control is a necessity...

"The fact that W is pro-gun is not what makes him the scummiest president in history.
It's just one of his scummier attributes....

[MrBenchley]

19. Speaking of Abu Ghraib...

Did you see this?

"A civilian charged with preparing Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison for U.S. military use headed the Texas prison system during one of its most controversial periods and later resigned as director of Utah prisons after an inmate died while shackled naked to a chair.
Lane McCotter, now director of business development for a private prison company, Management & Training Corp., says he never trained U.S. military personnel working in Iraq's prisons and turned over the management of Abu Ghraib to military officials before the United States began housing prisoners there.
But Sen. Charles Schumer, D-New York, is urging Attorney General John Ashcroft to investigate how civilians such as McCotter were chosen to oversee the opening of prisons in Iraq -- noting that McCotter is an executive for a company operating a private prison in New Mexico that the Justice Department criticized last year for unsafe conditions and lack of medical care for inmates.
"There are many questions begging for answers," Schumer said last week. "Mr. McCotter 's selection also raises serious questions about the role that was played by civilian advisers in setting prison policies, designing training programs for prison guards and directly influencing the environment in which the horrible abuses at Abu Ghraib took place."
"Why Attorney General Ashcroft would send someone with such a checkered record to rebuild Iraq's corrections system is beyond me," Schumer said. "

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/front/2572688