Shooting at Kennewick home was self defense

[GreenStormCloud]

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2014221529_apwafatalkennewickshooting.html
KENNEWICK, Wash. —
Benton County Prosecutor Andy Miller says a fatal shooting at a Kennewick home was justified as self defense.

A resident, Ramon Madrigal, shot 20-year-old Tyler Stock on Jan. 11 as Stock was trying to force his way through the front door.

KVEW reports Stock was carrying a handgun and wearing a blue bandanna on his face. Three other people who were with Stock that night were arrested for investigation of attempted robbery.

Tyler Stock won't try to break into any homes again.

[sharesunited]

1. The intruder was carrying a gun, and was emboldened to commit the crime because of it.

This is a guns-as-solution-to-guns story.

Zero points awarded.

[jpak]

2. +1

yup

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

4. Guns (in the hands of qualified citizens) as a solution to guns (in the hands of criminals)... Yup.

You often hear the "Guns as a solution to guns?!?" snark put forth by people that want to decrease the number of firearms out there. It's an interesting observation and, at face valve, does not pass the logic test - how can more guns possibly be a solution? But upon further observation it makes sense with a few qualifiers.

Lets look at antineoplastics for a moment. Antineoplastics are poisons designed to kill. Used improperly, carelessly, or maliciously they can severely injure or kill people. Used correctly, they present a decent chance at curing people from cancer - chemotherapy. Antineoplastics are nothing more than a tool to fight cancer when used properly... a deadly agent used to combat another deadly agent with steep associated risks.

Firearms, used improperly, carelessly, or maliciously can severely injure or kill people. Used correctly, they present a decent chance at preventing grievous bodily injury or death - self defense. Firearms, in the hands of trained law-abiding people, are nothing more than a tool to fight crime. They are tool to equalize the force between an assailant and a victim. Guns, in the hands of qualified citizens, have positive externalities on safety and security.

The problem with attacking gun violence using legislation against the tool is that the law will disproportionately change the actions of those willing to obey the law. The tool is not the problem... the intent (the criminals) are the problem. Said otherwise, anti-gun legislation will handcuff the positive externalities of firearms in the hopes that the negative externalities can be mitigated. That is not sound logic which is further backed up by failed prohibition of illicit items in America and failed gun control around the globe. Legislation efforts to attack criminal possession of firearms - without infringing on the rights of the other 96%+ of the gun-owning population is perfectly acceptable.

"Guns (in the hands of qualified citizens) as a solution to guns (in the hands of criminals)" does make sense.

[guitar man]

13. "guns as a solution to guns"

I always get a chuckle out of that meme. Just ask any pro-confiscate-all-guns person if they would approve of the cops and BATF going house to house armed and pointing guns at us in order to take ours away. I think you'll find most of them are in favor of "guns as a solution to guns" too. ;)

[Maine_Nurse]

8. And committing an armed crime is against the law. Shows you how well firearms...

legislation works with criminals.

You can't eliminate something that can be easily made from readily available hardware store parts, and ridiculous regulations only harm the law-abiding citizens.

[sharesunited]

9. Taking wagers now that the intruder's gun was NOT home made.

[Maine_Nurse]

12. I'm sure you are correct, but it easily could be if real he couldn't get a real one.

[Kennah]

22. Home made guns aren't necessary

Drug war failures are the same as gun war failures.

If the gun war ever escalated to the level of the drug war, the profit margins on guns would rise, but it would by no means price criminals outta the market. Drugs are consumable goods whereas guns are durable goods.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

10. You are fogetting the rules

When the intended victim goes unharmed, it is at least 2 points

[Atypical Liberal]

20. What else would be a solution to guns?

This is a guns-as-solution-to-guns story.

What would you suggest as an alternative solution to an intruder with a gun?

[speltwon]

25. Mad Ninja Skillz as a solution to intruder with gun?

Makes for much better video.

[cleanhippie]

23. Perhaps, but the armed homeowner UNemboldened him, now didn't he?

:rofl:

[PavePusher]

26. I wonder what other weapons could have emboldened him?

Zero thought awarded.

[Texas_Uber_Alles]

3. Score another point...

...for the good guys. Criminals need to learn about the consequences for being a criminal.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

5. We have guns

and the only reason we do is because there's so many of them in America, we need a fighting chance. It's more civilized back home in the UK.

[TheWraith]

6. More civilized? The violent crime rate in the UK is higher than in the US. nt

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

7. Rapes, flash mobs, and knifings don't count... only evil gun crime... duh!

[Boudica the Lyoness]

30. Like I keep saying

I'd rather take my chances with sticks, stones, fisty cuffs or a knife, than a gun. How about you? And I live in the US and I am armed with guns... because you crazy fuckers have guns.

[PavePusher]

32. "you crazy fuckers"

I'm sure you can leave any time you like. Both the forum and the country.

[oneshooter]

33. Lets be pleasant about this now.....

You have to allow for the fact that this is a Welshman you are talking to. They are not used to the idea of freedom, being not free citizens but mere subjects of the Crown.


Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[AtheistCrusader]

34. You'd rather fight off an attack by a knife-wielding thug with your 'fisty cuffs'?

I'd rather use my gun, thanks.

Ever been stabbed or slashed? I'm not talking a little cut finger in the kitchen, but a real swipe from some jerk that intents to harm you?

You go ahead and use your fists. I'm a tool-using mammal.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

29. And how many homicides?

How many people are killed in the UK compared to the US? I'd rather get poked with a stick than shot in the head. By the way, if I was to get beat up in the US, I get beaten up again when I get the fucking medical bill! You call that civilized?

[PavePusher]

27. Really? I lived there for 7 1/2 years and in that time was a victim of crime....

more times than in the entire rest of my life (42 years).

So much for "civilised".

[Boudica the Lyoness]

28. Was you shot?

[PavePusher]

31. Being shot is not the only way to be injured or killed.

I'm sure you knew that....

[AtheistCrusader]

35. You know even the police shoot people with knives right?

For a reason. (though in the case of the Seattle PD, perhaps a bit too enthusiastically)

[Hoyt]

11. Too bad you guys are quick to dismiss cases like Loughner when promoting gun carrying.

It's one thing to have guns in your house. I do too, although not the killing machines that seem so popular around here. It's another to be sporting them at church, in public parks, in family restaurants, etc.

[slackmaster]

14. This thread isn't about legally carrying guns in public

HTH

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

16. Yes, comparing someone like Loughner to people legally permitted to carry a firearm...

Gee, that won't make you look like a Moran or anything. :rofl:
After all, he was just "sporting his firearm" :eyes:

[GreenStormCloud]

21. Do REALLY believe the Loughner would have left his gun at home if it had been illegal? N/T

[petronius]

17. Actually, it's you anti-carry people who forget about people like Loughner and the intruder in

the OP - there's no reason to think that they're going to stay home, or only commit assaults in other people's homes...

[Hoyt]

18. Naw, anti-carry people are just tired of propaganda from folks who can't leave home without a gun.

[petronius]

19. When you're too tired to think straight or stay on topic, you should probably log off and take a nap

The story in the OP has nothing to do with carrying firearms, openly or concealed (although if you really want to force a tangential connection we can say that, because the criminals transported their gun(s) through the public sphere, even this OP demonstrates the rationale for legal carry outside the home)...

[cleanhippie]

24. Too bad every one of your talking points is old and busted.

You are like a broken record: you just keep skipping back to the same part, over and over, even though we have heard it a million times, and found it to be entirely lacking.

Fail.

[AtheistCrusader]

36. That's the thing. You'll never know that I'm carrying, until and unless

someone starts threatening mine, or another human life.

[Upton]

15. Another victory for those who believe in civil liberties.,.

and the right of self defense...