SC candidate raffles off AK-47 at campaign rally

[kpete]

Source: Associated Press

SC candidate raffles off AK-47 at campaign rally
9/27/2009, 2:28 p.m. EDT
The Associated Press

(AP) — GREENVILLE, S.C. - A candidate to be South Carolina's next National Guard leader skipped the fiery speeches for firepower, launching his campaign with what he called a "machine-gun social."

The Greenville News reports some 500 people came out to a shooting range Saturday for Republican Dean Allen's political rally. He wants to be the next adjutant general, the person who leads the state's National Guard.

Attendees paid $25 for barbecue, a clip of bullets for target practice and the chance to win a semiautomatic AK-47. Whoever wins the rifle will have to undergo a background check.

Allen says he is an Army veteran who wanted to celebrate Second Amendment rights. South Carolina is the only state that elects its adjutant general.


Read more: http://www.nj.com/newsflash/index.ssf?/base/national-24/125408017667830.xml&storylist=national

[Mudoria]

1. I'd pay $25 for a chance at an AK

[Capn Sunshine]

70. plus a clip!

that's 5 bucks right there

[AtheistCrusader]

88. For what, to hang it on your belt?

It's a #$%@ %^#$#% @$#@$#@$#$%#ing MAGAZINE

;-)

[Tejas]

81. Not me, but raffle a Barrett 50 and..... ;)

[Treo]

2. How Un- American

He should have raffled off an AR :bounce:

[Tim01]

37. I think he is just cheap. nt

[NewMoonTherian]

113. That's what I said! Have some pride, man. n/t

[PavePusher]

117. See my post #116 below. n/t

[JonQ]

3. I don't see any problem with that

[comtec]

5. These assholes BANG ON about Murika are using SOVIET ERA GUNS!!!!!

THAT is what's wrong!

Yo want to bang on about 'murikkan rites to ohhN gunz, that for christ's sake RAFFLE AMERICAN MADE!

what's wrong with the M-15?

I forget is the P20 a real or fake make? =]

[JonQ]

27. Cold war is over dude

relax.

The AK is a fine weapon that's why it's one of the most widely produced rifles of all time.

And by that logic shouldn't we avoid all german, japanese, italian, british, and korean products?

[comtec]

33. My point is the hypocracy of these gun-humping assholes

Honestly i don't care what weapon you own, as long as the automatic feature is disabled outside of a gun range.

I'm angry that they flag draping, gun-humping reisch wing, faschist assholes go on and on about how great murika iz, and they buy a fucking Kalashnikov!!!!!

It's the hypocrisy of it all. they dont even have the decency of offering up an american made weapon.

[Treo]

38. The automatic feature?

Do you even know what you're talking about?

[comtec]

41. the spring assembly that allows automatic, continous firing

as opposed to standard semi-automatic.

I am personally, opposed to automatic enabled weapons in the general populace.

Aside from killing people (and targets, and old cars=]) there is no other use for Automatic to be enabled.

I have no problem with civilians using such things in a controlled environment - such as a range (gotta love mini-guns to be honest)

As I understand it is possible to purchase automatic weapons where the assembly required for it to be automatic is disabled, and the weapon can only fire in semi mode.

So yes I do know what i'm talking about, I apologize for not being gun-humping enough to use the correct terminology.

[Treo]

47. No you don't know what you're talking about

And that's important because you look like an idiot when you get around a bunch of people who do know what there talking about.


I am personally, opposed to automatic enabled weapons in the general populace.

All legal automatic weapons in the "general populace" have been registered and very heavily restricted since 1934 in 1986 the automatic weapons registry was closed and no new weapons can be added to it. As a result actual automatic weapons are extremely rare and priced accordingly.


Aside from killing people (and targets, and old cars=]) there is no other use for Automatic to be enabled.

Your sentence contradicts itself and since the NFA registry of 1934 one automatic weapon has been used in a crime. The crime was committed by a crooked police officer at that.

I have no problem with civilians using such things in a controlled environment - such as a range (gotta love mini-guns to be honest)

Where else do you think they're going to use them?


So yes I do know what i'm talking about,

Again, you don't.


As I understand it is possible to purchase automatic weapons where the assembly required for it to be automatic is disabled, and the weapon can only fire in semi mode.


Yes, it is possible to buy semi automatic copies of fully automatic weapon how ever conversion of such weapons is a felony under the NFA of 1934. even possessing a conversion kit is illegal and people have been jailed because a weaponed they owned malfunctioned and went full auto.

[Capn Sunshine]

73. there are guys like my BIL who convert semis- to auto

it's a hobby you know.

[X_Digger]

74. Do tell..

What gun might that be? (You do realize that's a 10 year ticket to club fed, right?)

Did he _tell_ you he did this, or _tell_ you how 'easy' it is, or did you actually see it?

[Treo]

75. Converting semis to auto

If he's doing so, he's doing so illegally. If you're aware of it and don't report it you're an accessory. They could probably get you on conspiracy as well.

Was there any thing else you wanted to say?

[paulsby]

106. absolutely false

where do people get this crap? too many episodes of legal shows on teevee?

"If he's doing so, he's doing so illegally. If you're aware of it and don't report it you're an accessory."

that is false. it is NOT what an "accessory" is under any state or federal penal code. generally speaking (there are limited exceptions), if somebody admits to committing a crime to you, you have NO duty to report it to authorities. and you certainly aren't an "accessory"

people who don't understand the law, shouldn't comment on it

i won't even address the conspiracy comment. that's even stupider

[Treo]

110. Thanks for correcting me

And thanks for being such a total prick while doing so

[paulsby]

111. sorry. it's part of my chahm

it's also my #1 pet peeve. people do it here all the time on 1st amendment law (everything is an "incitement" and the whole false-yell-fire-theater thang) especially.

sorry if i sounded snippy

[Tejas]

85. I would assume he pays SOT and deals in post-May items. nt

[AtheistCrusader]

91. In the US, it's a FUCKING FELONY

Tell your 'hobbyist friends' it's 10 years federal pen, PER OFFENSE.

I'd also suggest distancing yourself from such 'friends'. They are a liability. If it were me, I'd call the cops. Friends or no friends.


Neither the BATFE nor the FBI, or any other alphabet soup government acronym has any sense of humor whatsoever on this subject.

[Name removed]

99. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AtheistCrusader]

90. The weapon in question is semi-auto only and would probably require complete replacement of parts to

function in full-auto mode. It's not a 'spring assembly'. In any case, no new AK-47 or any other form of automatic weapon, imported, or produced domestically has entered the market in the US since 1986. All select fire weapons (burst or full auto capable) have been registered, accompanied by a background check, and 200$ transfer fee since 1934.

Legal select fire weapons are very rare, and command an associated collectors price. 15k for a good quality M-16, or more.

[JonQ]

43. You know this isn't an automatic right?

Please tell me you were joking about that.

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

61. Deleted message

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[comtec]

66. i8've never said anything about profanity

i've always been against censorship of any kind.
i think you have me confused with someone else

[PavePusher]

79. There are AK-style firearms made in the U.S. n/t

[Euromutt]

92. I've got a list of American manufacturers

http://www.ak-47.us/AK47_Manufacturers.php

[AtheistCrusader]

93. Poor resolution.

This article is like looking at a photo of something on the ground, from 20 miles up, with 6 meter resolution. Grainy as fuck. It could be an american made knock-off of an AK-47, for one thing. If the media's track record is any indication, it could be a fucking flintlock musket. So calm down a bit, it might BE an American made weapon. Or it could have a certain number of American made parts for import compliance, etc. There are a lot of possibilities that are not clear with an article like this.

And the 'automatic' complaint you seem to have is totally out of left field. Doesn't even make any sense. It's a semi-auto weapon, if the article is to be trusted at all.

[NewMoonTherian]

114. It's no joke.

I've been banned from a forum amidst venomous jeers for tacitly suggesting that a semi-auto gun cannot be easily made auto with no expertise and tools found at home. It's a mantra that certain(not all, I'm not putting words in anyone's mouth) members of the gun control movement cling to despite being presented evidence to the contrary.

[JonQ]

44. Also

I don't think anyone has seriously claimed that we should subsist only on items manufactured within the US.

What if they'd been giving away an ipod, would you insist they got one made in the US?

[krispos42]

104. iPod's not a symbol of a nation we struggled against for half a century.

Besides, we can't make an iPod here. Design, yes, build, no.

[JonQ]

105. Are we still struggling against them?

We had a ghastly war with the japanese, no more electronics I suppose.

And the germans, burn those BMWs and volkswagons!

I really don't see the big deal, we aren't at war with them, this isn't an automatic and could possibly have been built here.

[krispos42]

107. If the prize was...

A Japanese Type 99 or a German K98 eyebrows would be raised as well.


Japanese troops didn't go into combat with PS3, and the Wehmacht didn't lob Passats at our amphibious troops.




How about... if the guy has offered an Italian WW2 rifle? Say a Modello 1891, commonly called a Carcano?

Here's a couple of pictures:

[JonQ]

108. I really doubt many people would have an issue with that

The gun isn't evil, the people carrying them could have been called that (debatable) but the weapon itself carries no stigma to those who refuse to anthropomorphise objects for political reasons.

Cotton was a key item allowing the souths almost successful seccession from the Union, and backed the evil insitution of slavery. Had they been giving away instead free t-shirts with some logo on them (made from cotton) would that have been tacit support for slavery and revolution?

[krispos42]

109. You're missing the point, I think

There are millions of Americans that were shot at by this kind of rifle. The source of the cotton in the uniforms of the Viet Cong wasn't spraying American blood in rice patty. The pickup trucks that Somali militiamen were riding in weren't killing American soldiers in Mogadishu. The batteries in the cell phones of Iraqi insurgents weren't punching holes in American troops in Baghdad.

It's symbolism. It can be strong symbolism. Especially when there are a plethora of alternatives to an AK. A wide variety of American-made, non-political hunting or sporting rifles and shotguns, for example. A Civil War rifled musket. A Garand. An M-1 Carbine. A Mini-14. An AR-15. An M-1A. A 1903 Springfield.

That's what I'm saying.

[Treo]

112. CZ-82

My wife owns a CZ-82 that was carried by the Czech communist border guards who were standing on the oppisite side of the border from me at Grafenwhoer. Dammed if I'm getting rid of it

[PavePusher]

116. Actually, I love the thought of American politicians raffling former Soviet-block designed weapons..

Now to defend freedom and the U.S. Constitution.

The Irony, is it not delicious?

[Treo]

118. It is

I love commie guns. I'm not a fan of select fire rifles as such but the CZ bug has bitten me square in the ass

[PavePusher]

119. I'm a Noisy Maggie fan, myself.

Although I'll probably add an AK-clone or two (and an SVD/PSL/NDM) if the prices ever become reasonable again.

[GreenStormCloud]

115. BTW - That particular rifle was accurate to less than one MOA.

Of course, that is contrary to what conspiracy theorists like to claim, but the FBI tested it to that accuracy. The scope was off-zero, but that could have easily happened in the handling between the assassination and the test.

[AtheistCrusader]

89. I'm partial to Belgian weapons myself.

FN FAL, Right Arm of the Free World baby

[Larry W.]

4. SC candidate raffles off AK-47 at campaign rally

Most states do not require a "background check" for semi-automatic rifles...I am surprised it is a requirement in S. Carolina. So...I did some checking. South Carolina state law does not require a "background check" for rifles...shotguns...and surprisingly handguns. According to the state statute...only applicants for a Conceal Carry Permit require a background check. So...as it appears to me...the AP is reporting incorrectly.

[TheWraith]

7. There's a background check in every state, because it's a federal law.

Anyone who gets a gun transferred to them though a Federal Firearms License dealer (standard proceedure for raffles) gets a standard NICS check. The only exception is face to face private sales, like when someone lists a gun in the newspaper's classified ads.

[Larry W.]

17. Are you sure...

According to NICS...South Carolina is a non-participating state...as are about 34 other states/territories. What is your definition of a "background check?"

[TheWraith]

20. I don't see how that matters. The Federal Firearms License mandates NICS use.

If a Federal Firearms Licensee transfers a gun to someone, an ATF form 4470 must be filled out, and the FFL runs the recipient through the National Instant Criminal Background Check System, commonly known as NICS. Whether the state participates or not just has to do with whether a background check request goes to the state level instead of directly to the feds. Most people never notice it though, because if they use the online NICS gateway, it's over in 10 minutes or so.

[Treo]

28. No, Larry is right (sort of)

In the states that don't use NCIS the state bureau of investigation does the background check same data bank different person looking at the data.
SPELLING

[Capn Sunshine]

72. Background check as defined in South Carolina

"any non-whites in your family on either side?"

[wordpix]

65. how about gun shows? No background check required there (by fed decree)

[X_Digger]

69. *sigh*

If it's a federally licensed dealer, he has to do a background check everywhere, _including_ gun shows.

If a state doesn't require it, person to person sales do not require a background check, regardless of the venue.

[AtheistCrusader]

94. Ugh Seriously? Do you really think that?

The only time a NICS check is not required is if it is a PRIVATE INDIVIDUAL selling a PERSONAL WEAPON to another private party. ALL DEALERS, even at a gun show, MUST follow all federal regulations, just as if they were at their place of business. Period.

Private transfers between private individuals work the same at the Gun Show, as they do in the classified section of the newspaper, or even at a garage sale.

[Treo]

18. Care to cite that ?

My understanding (and I could be wrong) is that the NCIS background check is a federal requirement on ALL FFL firearms sales. Are you sure you're not citing private sales?

[X_Digger]

23. Two exceptions that I know of..

.. some states take CHL / CHP in lieu of running an additional NICS check, and C&R FFLs don't get an additional NICS check in most states.

In both cases, though, there's still a 4473 form filled out.

[onehandle]

6. Guns are the new sheets. nt

[tomm2thumbs]

8. +1

they are okay as along as folks of color don't show up with 'em

[PavePusher]

82. Really?

According to MSNBC, African-Americans carrying guns don't exist, even if they have to edit their video to prove it.

[Name removed]

97. Deleted message

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[TheWraith]

9. To clarify: Not actually an AK-47.

The name "AK-47" means "Automatic Rifle Kalashnikov, model of 1947." The "AK-47s" that you see in the US are stripped down semi-automatic knockoffs of the original design, sort of like the difference between a real Rolex and a knockoff. Being fully automatic, the very few real AKs in the US are collectors items, and you'd likely pay $15 to $20 thousand dollars for one.

Anyway I second the posters who noted the irony of giving away a knockoff of a Russian gun. As far as I'm aware none of the AK knockoffs are made in the US.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

21. I was wondering this myself...

Why in the hell would you raffle off a foreign-made firearm?

[TheWraith]

26. Well, they're Republicans, so low IQ comes with the territory.

Seriously, it just strikes me as idiocy. Yeah, the AK knockoff is probably pretty cheap--they're sometimes sold down as low as $400. But they're also not very good. And they're not made here. There's plenty of well made US models that they could have chosen.

[Euromutt]

86. I got yer American AK manufacturers right here:

http://www.ak-47.us/AK47_Manufacturers.php

Admittedly, as far as I can determine, they're only "American-made" in the legal sense, i.e. assembled using as many imported parts as possible, with just enough American-made parts to make it an American-made weapon for purposes of the GCA of 1968. But hey, that goes for Springfield Armory's 1911s as well, and I don't hear anyone complaining.

[raccoon]

10. Just when I think our esteemed (not) SC politicians can't sink any lower, they never fail to do so.

I don't think any decent, law-abiding citizen NEEDS an AK-47.

[TheWraith]

12. You do know this isn't substantially different from other rifles, right?

I suspect you're one of the (many) people who's been misinformed that these are automatic weapons. They're not.

[raccoon]

14. I thought all AK-47's were automatics. But I'm no gun expert. nt

[TheWraith]

16. Nope. Automatic weapons in the US are governed by the 1934 National Firearms Act.

You can buy them, but they're generally very rare collector's items. For instance, a real automatic AK would cost between $15 and $20 thousand dollars, plus the required FBI background check and reams of paperwork. (Think a 6 to 8 month waiting period.)

The things like the AK knockoffs, the AR-15, and other models which look like military arms are universally semi-automatic--that means one trigger pull, one bullet, like a pistol or many dedicated hunting rifles.

[X_Digger]

25. All "AK-47"s _are_ select-fire (auto or semi).. but..

.. many folks shorthand 'semi-automatic AK clone' or 'AK patterned semi-automatic' to 'AK'.

A raffle ticket for a _true_ AK-47 would be a heck of a lot more than $25, would involve an FBI level background check, fingerprinting, getting permission from your local LEO, 6-8 months, $200 tax stamp, etc.

eta typo

[Treo]

19. What does NEED have to do W/ it?

It's a legal semi automatic firearm, using hundred year old technology. it fires ONE round every time you pull the trigger. It's no different than a Mini-30.

[rd_kent]

30. You could be right.

Does anyone NEED an SUV? Does anyone NEED to smoke cigarettes? Does anyone NEED people magazine?


OH, wait, were only talking about "decent, law-abiding citizens" right?

Do decent, law-abiding citizens NEED a lawyer when questioned by the police?
Do decent, law-abiding citizens NEED to worry about criminals?


Who determines what a "decent" citizen is? Who determines what anyone NEEDS?

[benEzra]

48. I shoot competitively with a non-automatic civilian AK like the one being raffled here.

It's functionally and ballistically identical to a Ruger Mini Thirty deer rifle; it just looks more modern, and there is a bit more aftermarket support.



That is not an automatic weapon; it is a non-automatic civilian rifle, and is designed to be difficult to convert to full auto in order to comply with the National Firearms Act (just like any other civilian rifle). Ballistically, it's a twin of the old .30-30 Winchester, or about half as powerful as a .30-06.

[GreenStormCloud]

76. I bet you have a lot of stuff that you don't NEED.

Fortunately, the US doesn't have a Bureas of Needs that you have to check with before you buy something.

[Gedankenaustausch]

11. When you absolutely...

positively have to kill every MFer in the room..... Accept no substitutes. Ak's are such great guns, whether knock-off or whatever. While it's not american made, it definitely beats the hell out of everything the US makes. I think of it like this: The ar's are civilized, clean, sophisticated weapons. The AK is a uncivilized, brutal, stripped down, sick weapon. And I prefer it over anything, esp the Yugoslavian made 1's.

It is hilarious that they have to give out a foreign made weapon in such a "pro-American" fashion. But, who want's an american made weapon anyway?--- I'm joking... but only slightly.

[TheWraith]

13. As long as you don't need to hit anything past 500 feet or so. :) nt

[Gedankenaustausch]

15. very correct!

LOL that's y I think the samuel L Jackson quote is so great, because he says "room" in it. It wouldn't fit if it said, "in a large field," or something, because that would be incredibly difficult!

[Endangered Specie]

35. Its not so much the gun as it is the sights.

put a decent, well mounted sight on an AK, especially the 5.45 or 5.56 variety, good to 300 yards at least.

[Old Hob]

40. I regularly hit targets at 300 meters with my M16A2 using the iron sights while in the military.

A mildly tricked out AR15 shooting quality match grade ammo and a decent optical sight will shoot hole for hole at 100 meters and will hit targets at 800-1,000 meters in the right hands. That's quite an edge over the AK IMO. AKs are more dependable than the AR15/M16 series but even that is changing with the advent of the newer AR15 type rifles which utilize gas operated pistons and rods such as the new Ruger SR-556.

[benEzra]

56. The AK sight radius is shorter due to the forward rear sight placement, and the AR's aperture sight

is better for precision shooting, particularly when using the small aperture, than the notch and post design, so the AR does have a sight advantage.

I run a Kobra optic on my AK and it makes the platform much more usable at all ranges, IMO.

FWIW, even the U.S. military is moving toward unmagnified illuminated optics on most newer M16's/M4's, even though the issue iron sights are quite good.

[Old Hob]

58. I think the flatter trajectory of the 5.56 round helps too as well as the increased velocity.

The 5.56 only drops about 2 feet at 400 yards whereas the 7.62x39 drops about 4. The 5.56 round reaches its target quicker too which is always a plus in my book. I'm an old infantry rifleman so I suppose I'm just partial to the gun I am most proficient with too which is an oft overlooked aspect of the whole argument.

[Endangered Specie]

62. It doesn't suprise me the AR/M16 platform is more accurate...

but the question is... do you really *need* >400m accuracy? Most firefights happen within 400m and probably the majority within 100. Im sure some battles in the desert, targets that far away might present themselves, but that is more of a 'designated marksmen' (with an M14, or SVD) range.

Also, with regard to the ammo, .223 flies flatter and faster, another reason for it to be accurate, but 7.62x39 is guaranteed to give you a .30 caliber hole, versus .223, which may or may not fragment, or 5.45x39 which flies flat and fast, and tumbles.

Now, if you want a more accurate and lighter gun then an AK, without sacrificing utmost reliability and the 7.62x39 round... get a VZ-58, great rifle!

[Old Hob]

42. Anyone who knows anything about guns knows that the best rifles on earth are made in America

by Americans and have been for hundreds of years. The HK PSG-1 is supposed to be super special and top of the line but an AR10T outshoots it and still costs about $10,000 less than the HK. What's more, it doesn't destroy the brass. It's a better weapon. Barret firearms currenty manufactures the finest semi-auto .50 cal in the world. period. American made. Everyone wants one including America's enemies. A Les Baer AR15 will outshoot just about anything on the planet. It's made in America. His handguns are also the finest in the world. There really isn't anything that compares to them outside of America. Smith and Wesson makes the X-frame revolver which easily lobs a 440 grain slug (that's equal to a one oz shotgun slug BTW) out the end of its barrel at velocities typically seen by rifles. It will kill an elephant. If there were something bigger than an elephant, it would kill it too. It's made in America and is one of the finest production revolvers I have ever seen as well as the most powerful. Smith and Wesson's titanium/scandium alloy pistols are equally magnificent marvels of American craftsmanship. I think you're dead wrong if you're implying that American weapons are substandard to weapons manufactured outside of America.

[Gedankenaustausch]

49. bwahahah

Man, seriously Armorlight? dude, they produce mass crap, everything they make is substandard. BAHAHAHAA yeah anyone that knows anything about guns, that's why foreign gun stores are just overflowing with american made guns right? LOL get out a bit and talk to gun owners in other countries and you will understand.

Barret also is one of the few companies that even makes .50 cal rifles, their superfluous, and serve no purpose except in military, unless you want to hunt deer behind 5 foot walls of concrete. But I've shot 1 and I will say it's quite a rush indeed! And I'm sorry but the Les Baer ar15 will not "outshoot anything on the planet" ESPECIALLY an AK. I mean look at Les Baer's website, I'm like are you a serious gun manufacturer? Their website looks like something a 2nd grader with a fascination with guns would design. It reeks of unprofessionalism.

I'm not knocking ar's, I'm one of the lucky owners (and very happy owner) of a 1994 Colt ar15 chambered in 7.62. I love shooting it. I love colt. But you can't put as many rounds through an AR as you can an AK. I have put nearly 1.000 rounds through the AK in a day on more than one occasion and it begs for more. You can't do that with any ar, esp not the 1 that I've got and not with any ar owned by any of my friends either. I would say that out of the 20 or so people that I know that own ar's they all bitch about how you can't put more than 100 round through it before it starts screwing up. It's also really hard to find clips that will fit ar's properly. Because colt and ESPECIALLY armorlight produce guns with narrowsightedness (is that a word), it's really hard to find clips that will fit without screwing up. I think you could throw a bullet at the bottom of the AK and it would suck it up and fire it (that's a joke). You have to be nice to the AR. You can beat the AK like the redheaded stepchild and it begs for more punishment. Ask anyone that did time in Vietnam and they will laugh if you try to say that the AR is a better weapon. I'm sorry but I 100% disagree with you. Furthermore, the sw 500's, while really cool, are also superfluous, it's not a gun that someone that is a serious shooter possesses except to show people to get the OMG I can't believe they make such a ridiculous firearm response. That's the only purpose they serve. I mean that's like saying Israel makes the best guns because IMI makes gold .50 cal desert eagles. S&W are marvels of american craftsmanship and thats cool, but I'd rather buy something foreign with my cash. And so yes I am implying that American weapons are substandard, just like nearly everything made in America is substandard, like cars for instance. And I know what your thinking, "OMG But ford makes one of the biggest SUV'S in the world and it has a V10" but just because you make something stupid doesn't mean it's a good product. I'm not going to buy American if American is shit. I would like to support american made goods, but I won't until they bring their standards up, especially for weapons. Sorry but most of the stuff we make is shit, and included in the shit pile are most american weapons.

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

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[Gedankenaustausch]

55. oh thanks for the spelling comments.

but, i'll spare you the grammatical overview of your posts (oops I didn't capitalize the I in i'll OMG OMG SUCH A BIG DEAL). Well, no I will do some correcting to prove a point---- (this is what you sound like when you point out grammatical mistakes) OMG OMG OMG you spelled Barrett with 1 "t" so if you can't even spell it right don't even talk about them OMG your stupid hahahaha i pointed out a trivial mistake in your post so take THAT HAHAHAHAHAA you know NOTHING about firearms!!!!! HAHAHAHAHA

First, your response to my comment about gun stores overflowing is incoherent and doesn't at all challenge what I said. I think your saying that gun stores in America are the only 1's that sell a lot of guns? If so, thanks for the straw-man, but apparently you haven't visited gun stores anywhere else. Before you comment about something you apparently have no idea about, realize that if you have no idea it's best to not comment. I'm guessing you've never been to a gun store in any other country? Thought so...

You did misspell Barrett though.... so should I negate what you said and not address it? Why no, thats what someone stupid would do.

So, to Barrett (2 t's) Yes I do not doubt the technical capabilities of the Barret. I think it's a great weapon, but Barrett doesn't have guns flying off the racks like other gun manufactures. I mean what do you think their global sales are per year? I'm sure it doesn't touch the likes of companies like S&W so if you wanna compare apples to apples don't use oranges. It's like comparing the technical capability of a chevy mailbu with a Ferrari. I mean your talking about a company that produces soooooooooooo much less than any other manufacturer. Now, if they could put this technical ability in say 150.000 units or so per year, that would be very special. But, otherwise just stick to like comparisons. I mean italians won't tell you they build the most technically advanced cars in the world. The most technically advanced sports cars come out of Italy, but only like 15k per year or less. You said "desirable" by who? I mean seriously. Besides military and police where is the high demand for a .50 cal, long range, $9k rifle? I mean everybody wants one just to say they have one, and be like "hey look what i paid 9 grand for." I think their demand is somewhat lower than you are thinking.

And furthermore revolvers suck in my opinion, I absolutely hate them. They remind me of old men who just like things because their used to them, they don't really know why, but they stick to their.....guns (lol that was a joke). So I really don't care about revolvers. Just personal taste, nothing personal against revolver lovers, they just aren't my thing. I think S&W makes great revolvers, but they are one of the few companies that produce revolvers. It's easy to be number 1, when you are the number 1 producer and there's only a handful of producers. Revolvers are a very american thing... kind of like Ford Excursions with v-10's..... stupid (in my opinion).

Congrats on the Glock trade. Glock is perhaps the worst gun in the world.... ugh.... I can't think of a worse semi. Yeah the Les baer is better, so is any other semi. And so is any pistol that costs idk more than 300 dollars. And as far as Les Baer is concerned.... once again what's their production per year? I mean it's really easy to make really quality semi's and charge three grand for them when you only make a few each year. I'm not a fan of the 1911, I think it's really played out.... kinda like revolvers, but I haven't shot a Les Baer and probably won't so I can't speak for it. 1911's are so typical, like show me something that doesn't use nearly 100 year old proven designs.

Clearly, we desire very different things in firearms. I like the AK for home defense, because of the spray and prey thing. I don't take it target shooting, because that's not what it's meant for... that's what I have the colt for. But, as far as combat... ask one of the just returned soldiers from Iraq how many rounds were shot at them by a single shooter.... maybe not 1.000 rounds but damn close. Spraying and praying, but shooting 1.000 rounds. ugh... "one shot, one kill eh?" "the old american tradition eh?" jeez, I don't even want to validate this with a response... so I won't. I also won't be having a standoff at 500 meters, I mean seriously has this ever happened outside of war times? When do you, as a citizen ever have to "engage multiple targets at long range." This isn't Red Dawn. I don't own my weapons for the purpose of living out war drama's, I buy them because they are cool and they get my jollies off when I shoot them and they serve a purpose. I mean... seriously your talking about something that would NEVER happen unless your a RW'er that thinks Obama's presidency is going to lead to a war. If you think that than I guess this possible "stand-off" is something you look forward too. Just "attempting" to put many rounds through an ar results in bad things happening. You may have shot hole for hole at 500 meters but i bet you didn't do it for a prolonged period... because as an ar owner I know when it gets hot it starts jamming. And ESPECIALLY if you don't clean it ALL THE TIME. I feel like for the ar to work properly you need to break it down fully and clean everything then reassemble after every 50 rounds (and you better not shoot those 50 rounds in rapid succession either!... joking but only slightly)

And yea finally America makes shit... I mean, look at our products.... besides Barrett (the number 1 desired weapon by 8th graders who are into guns while number 2 is a gold desert eagle), what is a world respected damn good american product? I'm seriously blanking on this. I'm not saying there isn't one, but I'm just blanking... I mean I'm looking around on my desk and I can't find one thing that is an American made product.... whoops I just found one, Mead notebook, and I damn good one too.... but paper, really, is that all? I'm really thinking that I don't own anything made in America.... wow sad right?

<edited for grammer mistake I found so you wouldn't get upset> if you find more please let me know.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[AtheistCrusader]

95. AK style weapons are as notorously reliable, as they are notoriously inaccurate.

Built like a tank, run forever, minimal maintenence. NOT terribly accurate. Just a function of a stamped receiver. Not much you can do to accurize them. It really is an outdated design.

[Euromutt]

98. Both are the result of wide clearances

Because there's a comparatively large amount of space between moving parts, the Kalashnikov design can keep running with crap in the works that would choke most western rifles. The trade-off is that those same loose fit also impairs accuracy.

[benEzra]

102. Stamped and milled receivers are generally comparable given equivalent quality barrels.

Adding optics does do a great deal to improve accuracy, as the biggest problem for most people is the short sight radius combined with the European-style notch-and-blade sights instead of the apertures found on most U.S. rifles. Replacing the slant brake with a target crown, flash suppressor, or AK-74 style brake also helps (less nutation inducing). AK's are also tricky to benchrest.

Using higher quality ammunition also helps; a match grade bolt-action won't group tightly with cheap plinking ammunition, and since Lapua stopped importing 7.62x39mm, very accurate ammunition in that caliber is hard to find.

The .223/5.56x45mm and 5.45x39mm AK's are considerably more accurate, on average, than the 7.62x39mm AK's, so I think a lot of it is a matter of barrel rigidity, dwell time, harmonics (due to the cantilevered gas block and heavy piston/bolt carrier), and ammunition quality, rather than to the clearances in the action itself. Self-fulfilling expectations of poor accuracy probably factor in to some degree as well.

[Euromutt]

101. I don't much see the point of an AK knock-off myself

The AK-47 wasn't so much designed to replace the Mosin-Nagant M1891/30 rifle and M1944 carbine (though it did) as the PPSh-41 sub-machine gun, with which the Sovs had equipped entire regiments, sometimes entire divisions, during the war. By the infantry doctrines of the time, the AK-47 wasn't so much a rifle as an overgrown sub-machine gun, and automatic capability was integral to the concept. Having a semi-auto-only Kalashnikov variant rather defeats the purpose, if you ask me.

Now, a semi-auto with a Kalashnikov mechanism that projects a round with a bit more punch than a 7.62x39mm, well, now you're talking. Say, a Saiga 308 or even a Zastava M76, though the latter does fire the shoulder-punishing 7.92x57mm Mauser (and why are they so expensive? They're made in Serbia, fer Chrissakes!).

[salguine]

22. Isn't that a foreign gun? Why does he hate America?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

24. because he is a communist sympathizer

:)

[Endangered Specie]

34. Not strictly a foreign gun, by law at least 6 parts have to be US made.

One of the dumber federal gun laws 922r allows no more than 10 foreign made parts from a list of 20.

[BigBluenoser]

29. He probably picked the AK because...

There really are no quality made American carbines in that price range. A low end AR would cost double and the ffl dealer contributing the rifle may like "Al" but I guess he don't like em that much :)

I can't think of a better "draw" rifle in the $500 range.

[boppers]

32. Hi Point.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hi-Point_Carbine

...unless you don't like polymer weapons. :D

[BigBluenoser]

51. I actually want to buy one of those in 9mm...

Despite the fact they may be the ugliest carbine in the history of firearms, they are fun, accurate and cheap to feed.

They are also $200 and not much of a draw :)

[benEzra]

54. The Hi Point is a blowback operated pistol caliber carbine...

not really in the same class as a locked-breech 7.62x39mm rifle. The Hi Points are nice little carbines, though (but the optional ATI stock really helps from an aesthetic standpoint).

[Euromutt]

96. Huh. For a moment there, I thought that was a Beretta Cx4 Storm

I've never seen that replacement furniture before, and I was going to correct you, but had the good sense just in time to look that up. Wow, that really is a huge improvement in looks.

[underpants]

31. He could have saved everyone the trouble of waiting and just pulled his dick out

but then who would want to get a "winning ticket" to that?

[Tim01]

36. Another anti who is thinking about penis. Of course with a name like underpants....

Consistent.

Still, no need to drag penis into every discussion.

Or maybe you could start your own thread all about penis.Who knows, maybe you could even start your own sub forum so you could talk about penis all the time with other people who love to talk about penis.
You should give it a shot.

[underpants]

39. So you don't think this was a public stunt to exhibit his manliness?

Okay go with that then :eyes:

[slackmaster]

45. It was a public stunt to get campaign contributions

:dunce:

[Tejas]

80. No, you are beating a dead penis.

Your argument is limp.

[Euromutt]

103. Thanks for the imagery

I couldn't help visualizing that. It's about as pleasant as the remark I once heard that the milkshakes in a particular place were so thick that "you're better of blowing a corpse if you want to get something out."

[Tim01]

83. Why are you so stuck on this guys cock?

It is a fund raiser. He will raffle whatever is in line with his republican/military job, in order to pick up cash.

I guess he could have raffled a tank.

[AlphaCentauri]

46. What a heack is this 1864?

[Hawkowl]

50. More like SC in 1860

Secession and all that. This time lets let the South go away.

[saigon68]

60. Lots of Love here --- get an SKS

Its more accurate for deer

[sofa king]

63. Doesn't the press usually call SKSes AK-47s?

[X_Digger]

64. Yah..

[saigon68]

68. LOL

[Hoopla Phil]

78. Hey. I was going to post that. LOL

[Gedankenaustausch]

87. LOL

I was hoping that someone would post that. I love it!

[saigon68]

67. Its NOT an AK

It has a forged receiver, loaded with a 10 round stripper clip. No detachable magazine like an AK, strictly semi-auto, like an M-1 Garand.

Much more accurate than an AK. uses the same ammo 7.62 X 39

And the press are idiots, most reporters don't know squat about weapons, especially rifles.

[spin]

77. "Machine gun social" is misleading...

but obviously it gets more attention than semi-auto social.

[57_TomCat]

84. I used to go to a regular Machine gun shoot...

in that neck of the woods every year when I lived in Asheville. Bunch of us Full-Auto fans would head out on the first weekend after christmas to Sumter National Forest in the northwest portion of the state. The hardware we played with was awesome to include Ma Deuces and Barretts or barrats or baratts or whatever way you want to spell them. :D

HK's, "real" AK47's/AKM's, Ruger 556's, Colt and Bushmasters and on and on...

[Name removed]

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