Miller presses Ottawa to ban handguns

[beevul]

Miller presses Ottawa to ban handguns

Mayor writes to Harper demanding loopholes in laws be closed, border security toughened

Mar 28, 2008 04:30 AM
Susan Delacourt
Ottawa Bureau

In a letter sent yesterday to Harper, Miller writes: "It is time to banish handguns from our nation."


But Miller told the Star yesterday that if Harper's government can reverse itself on giving gas-tax revenues to cities – as it did in its recent budget – then perhaps it can also be persuaded of the case of a ban.

"Parliament has shown that it's prepared to act when it's right – the gas tax being made permanent is an example of that. That wasn't a commitment of this government and as I recall, they pushed back against it," Miller said. "It is so abundantly clear, when you look at the international statistics, the tougher the laws about handguns, the fewer murders there are, the fewer suicides, the fewer accidental deaths. It is absolutely black and white."

Day and the Harper government have long argued that handguns are already banned in Canada – with some exceptions – and that it's more important to go after illegal weapons than to toughen up the laws. "We want to aggressively go after the illegal use of handguns," Day told the Star earlier this month. "That's where our focus should be and that's where it will continue to be."

http://www.thestar.com/article/404785

Day and the harper Gov have long argued that handguns are already banned - with some exceptions? That seems an odd way of putting it, unless those exceptions are few enough and far between enough, to really be exceptions to the rule of a ban. But then why would Miller be pressuring for a full on ban?

Should Miller get his way, I wonder if that Canadian gun registry could potentially be useful for knowing whos doors to knock on...

[ConcernedCanuk]

1. Gun registry is only for rifles. Ownership of handguns was already highly regulated.

.
.
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Handguns fall under the "restricted weapon" class, like automatic weapons, and some semi-automatic.

Our gun registry does not deal with restricted weapons - just the average joe's hunting rifles.

But I'm sure that DHS already has the info from our gun registry so they know where all the "insurgents" might come from.

[iverglas]

6. quite incorrect

Our gun registry does not deal with restricted weapons - just the average joe's hunting rifles.

No, and that's utter nonsense; ownership of all firearms is required to be registered. Registration of ownership of handguns was required long before the firearms registry was established; the registry extended the requirement to all other firearms.

Handguns fall under the "restricted weapon" class, like automatic weapons, and some semi-automatic.

No; handguns are generally restricted (some are prohibited), and some semi-automatic firearms are restricted; automatic firearms are prohibited.
(regulations govern classification of semi-automatic firearms: http://www.canlii.org/ca/regu/sor98-462)

https://secure.cfc-cafc.gc.ca/eCFRSInternet/openLicenceEntry.do?language=English

On this site you will be able to:
* Register Non-Restricted, Restricted and Prohibited Firearms ...

At present, the right-wing federal government (which has jurisdiction over firearms law) has declared and renewed an amnesty on the registration of (non-restricted, non-prohibited) long arms.

Government by executive decree (by a minority government with a mandate derived from less than 2/5 of the popular vote) to override legislative intent -- pretty much what one expects from these folks.



http://www.canlii.org/ca/sta/c-46/sec84.html

“prohibited firearm” means

(a) a handgun that

(i) has a barrel equal to or less than 105 mm in length, or

(ii) is designed or adapted to discharge a 25 or 32 calibre cartridge,

but does not include any such handgun that is prescribed, where the handgun is for use in international sporting competitions governed by the rules of the International Shooting Union,

(b) a firearm that is adapted from a rifle or shotgun, whether by sawing, cutting or any other alteration, and that, as so adapted,

(i) is less than 660 mm in length, or

(ii) is 660 mm or greater in length and has a barrel less than 457 mm in length,

(c) an automatic firearm, whether or not it has been altered to discharge only one projectile with one pressure of the trigger, or

(d) any firearm that is prescribed <i.e. by regulations> to be a prohibited firearm;


“restricted firearm” means

(a) a handgun that is not a prohibited firearm,

(b) a firearm that

(i) is not a prohibited firearm,

(ii) has a barrel less than 470 mm in length, and

(iii) is capable of discharging centre-fire ammunition in a semi-automatic manner,

(c) a firearm that is designed or adapted to be fired when reduced to a length of less than 660 mm by folding, telescoping or otherwise, or

(d) a firearm of any other kind that is prescribed to be a restricted firearm;

typo fixed

[Indy Lurker]

2. Not quite right

Miller said. "It is so abundantly clear, when you look at the international statistics, the tougher the laws about handguns, the fewer murders there are, the fewer suicides, the fewer accidental deaths. It is absolutely black and white."

Suicide Rates per 100,000

Japan............24.0
France...........18.0
Cuba ............13.5 (not sure about gun laws)
Germany..........13.0
Canada...........11.6
United States....11.0
United Kingdom... 7.0

looks like the suicide part is wrong.

[Tejas]

3. How typical

Go after law-abiding gunowners instead of the source of the problem.

imagine that! :sarcasm:

[SteveM]

4. You know how Canada is. So-o-o-o much like the U.S.!

[iverglas]

5. Day and the Harper government

are, of course, lying pieces of right-wing shit.

Day and the Harper government have long argued that handguns are already banned in Canada – with some exceptions

The "exceptions" are:

- anyone who qualifies for a firearms permit and joins an approved gun club
- anyone who qualifies for a firearms permit and can demonstrate the minimal knowledge of firearms required in order to qualify as a "collector"

Kimveer Gill, who killed one person, seriously injured others, and planned to do more than that but was stopped by police who happened to be on campus and killed him, qualifed as a sports shooter.

All of the assholes whose firearms "collections" have been stolen in recent years and used to facilitate organized crime crime activities, for example in Toronto, and to kill people with no involvement in crime, qualifed as collectors.


There is no ban on handgun possession in Canada. There are laughably easy to meet requirements that must be met by anyone who wants one, or many.

Miller is pressing for a full-on ban because he is sick to death of people in his city being victimized and killed by people who acquired their handguns by stealing them from negligent owners who obviously don't give enough of a crap about anyone else to keep their firearms secure.

You can like the secondary source or lump it (sources are cited):
http://www.guncontrol.ca/English/Home/Facts/AllLegalGunsBegin.pdf

Opponents of gun control keep saying “punish the criminals” leave the law abiding gun owners alone. But where do criminals get their guns? Although half of the handguns recovered in crime are smuggled in from the USA, the other half originate from Canadian gun owners. We have seen a number of high profile shootings – including Toronto’s boxing day shooting – where the guns have been stolen from so called law abiding gun owners.

... 2. Legal guns which are diverted to the illegal markets through theft or illegal sale: there is no virtual ban on handguns. There are 500,000 legally owned handguns in Canada.

• Legally owned guns are often improperly stored, and stolen or sold illegally.
• Every year, over 5,000 firearms are reported stolen in Canada and in the hands of criminals.
• According to the police, about half the guns used in crime in Toronto are guns at one time legally owned in Canada, many of them stolen in breaks-in.
• Between June 20 and August 3, 2005, burglars made off with 84 firearms from Toronto-area homes. More than half, including 43 pistols stolen from Cobourg area, were handguns. One of these was used in a murder in Toronto this year.
...
• A Toronto lawyer had 14 handguns stolen from his office last month - one has turned up in crime.
• Toronto Police Service conducted a review of crime handguns submitted to the Gun and Gang Task Force during 2004 and found over half (52% were smuggled) and almost half (48%) originated in Canada.

Should Miller get his way, I wonder if that Canadian gun registry could potentially be useful for knowing whos doors to knock on...

Indeed it would. Anyone who had a handgun would be required to dispose of it, and owners of legally possessed handguns would be identifiable through the registry. What a marvellous example of a public policy working in the public interest.

It is highly likely that any new policy on handguns would simply require that legally owned handguns be stored away from the owners' premises, e.g. at the clubs where sports shooters practices (which is the only place where they may currently use the things anyway) or in secure storage facilities (in the case of collections owned by non-sports shooters). Off the top of my head, I would think new regulations would be made that contained requirements that storage facilities would have to meet to be approved for the purpose, and a licensing/inspection process for such facilities.


"We want to aggressively go after the illegal use of handguns," Day told the Star earlier this month. "That's where our focus should be and that's where it will continue to be."

And every intelligent person in the country, including anyone with any expertise in the fields of criminalogy and criminal justice, has called Day and his chums exactly what they are: demagogues driven by right-wing ideology who are concerned only with getting votes by scare tactics, and are proposing measures that run counter to everything we know about crime and criminals and will have no effect at all on either.



Last July, I noted:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=146326&mesg_id=146326

An on-line poll in a Canadian media outlet has the vote for banning handguns running 69% in favour to 30% opposed.