CA Cops carrying unsafe handguns?

[pandatimothy]

In a move signaling the sheer desperation of the final days of his administration, California Governor Gray Davis yesterday signed into law one of the nation’s most expansive handgun bans, outlawing new sales of nearly all handguns in common use for law enforcement and self defense...................


http://www.leaa.org/davispassesgunban.htm


(Please read past the Davis attacks)

[fromthehip]

1. Davis is a true ass.

Davis is a true ass. All he is trying to do is keep the citizens from defending themselves. Seems like he is trying to do the most damage he can in the few days he has left in office. "So, you people kicked me out, well screw you, I'm gonna sign all these laws in my final days just to get over on you."

[MrBenchley]

2. Wow, attacks on Democrats from far right loonies

being passed along by the RKBA crowd...who is surprised?

And guess which organization bankrolls the phony LEAA?

"The LEAA claims to be "the largest coalition of law enforcement officers, crime victims, and concerned citizens" in America, but few of its 65,000 members are involved in law enforcement. The group will not disclose its membership.
Although the LEAA refuses to release details of its funding sources, the available facts clearly show the organization’s extensive ties to and complete dependence on the NRA. The National Rifle Association provided a $100,000 grant to start the LEAA in 1991. Every year, the NRA funnels at least $50,000 to the LEAA -- which constitutes 50 percent or more of the group’s yearly income. Moreover, the LEAA’s board, staff and executive director all held previous positions with the NRA. The LEAA’s initial purpose was to lobby against the Brady gun safety bill at a time when the NRA found itself "largely abandoned by mainstream police organizations," according to the National Journal."

http://www.lisamadigan.org/press_pages/FOPvsLEAA.htm

[fromthehip]

3. She's an anti.

http://www.lisamadigan.org/issues/guns.htm

[MrBenchley]

4. So fucking what?

<sarcasm>Oh, I forgot, the only ones who aren't "biased" are the tiny fringe "gun rights" crowd...folks like Larry Pratt, Ted Nugent and Mary Rosh.</sarcasm>

Guess this "anti" claim means she's in line with these folks:

American Association of School Administrators
American Association for the Surgery of Trauma
American Bar Association
American Civil Liberties Union
American Medical Association
American Trauma Society
National Association of Community Health Centers
National Association of Police Organizations
National Association of School Psychologists
National Coalition Against Domestic Violence
National Education Association
National Safe Kids Campaign
Physicians for Social Responsibility
Dehere Foundation
Harris Foundation
Hechinger Foundation
Joyce Foundation
Lauder Foundation
Lawrence Foundation
Ortenberg Foundation
Police Foundation
H.M. Strong Foundation
Florence and John Shumann Foundation
The Council of the Great City Schools
U.S. Catholic Conference, Dept. of Social Development
Committee for the Study of Handgun Misuse & World Peace
Common Cause
Children s Defense Fund
Disarm Educational Fund
George Gund FundAmbulatory Pediatric Association
American Academy of Ambulatory Care Nursing
American Academy of Child & Adolescent Psychiatry
American Academy of Pediatrics
American Association of Family and Consumer Sciences
American Association for World Health
American Association of Neurological Surgeons
American Association of Retired Persons
American Counseling Association
American Ethical Union
American Federation of Teachers
American Firearms Association
American Jewish Committee
American Jewish Congress
American Medical Association
American Medical Student Association
American Medical Women's Association
American Nurses Association
American Psychological Association
American Public Health Association
American Trauma Society
Americans for Democratic Action
Anti-Defamation League
Association of American Medical Colleges
B'nai B'rith
Black Mental Health Alliance
Central Conference of American Rabbis
Children's Defense Fund
Church of the Brethren
Coalition to Stop Gun Violence
Coalition for Peace Action
College Democrats of America
Congress of National Black Churches, Inc.
Congress of Neurological Surgeons
Consumer Federation of America
Council of Chief State School Officers
Council of the Great City Schools
Environmental Action Foundation
Episcopal Church-Washington Office
Friends Committee on National Legislation
General Federation of Women's Clubs
Gray Panthers
Hadassah
Interfaith Neighbors
Int'l Association of Educators for World Peace
Int'l Ladies' Garment Workers' Union
Jewish Labor Committee
League of Women Voters of the United States*
Lutheran Office for Governmental Affairs, Evangelical Lutheran Church in America
Manhattan Project II
Mennonite Central Committee-Washington Office
National Assembly of National Voluntary Health & Social Welfare Organizations
National Association for the Advancement of Colored People
National Association of Chain Drug Stores
National Association of Children's Hospitals and Related Institutions
National Association of Counties*
National Association of Pediatric Nurse Associates & Practitioners
National Association of School Safety and Law Enforcement Officers
National Association of Elementary School Principals.....

and everybody else on the NRA's enemies list.

[fromthehip]

5. as you so aptly put...

"So fucking what?"

[MrBenchley]

6. So its easy to see what extremists the RKBA crowd

represent...

[BullDozer]

7. That's right

Wow, attacks on Democrats

Having the D after your name and being one too does not provided some magic invisible shield against criticism. If you screw up expect to be called on it D or not. Just witness the blood baths up in GD about the presidential hopefuls.

People are expected to take part in the process and if we all just sit back and say yes sir, yes ma'am, no ma'am, no sir, to what ever a politician with a D after their name does then why even bother?

My own senators have gotten many phone calls, emails, and notecards from me where I am critical of what they are trying to do or have done. They even get some where I say good job. Mary who often fields the calls only fainted the first few times I made calls like that.

[MrBenchley]

8. Save us the pious lecture, dozer....

"Just witness the blood baths up in GD about the presidential hopefuls."
Gee, I don't see many people in GD posting crap from Newsmax and CNS or far right wing propaganda from a bogus special interest group....and expecting it to be taken seriously.

[BullDozer]

9. Point?

Gee, I don't see many people in GD posting....

And that doesn't have a damn thing to do with your whining that someone with a D after their name gets some criticism.

[MrBenchley]

10. Obvious

Now go pout about it to someone who cares....

[BullDozer]

11. Bu bye now

Now go pout about it to someone who cares....

Feel free to peddle your spin-cycle right on out of here at anytime B.

[MrBenchley]

12. I'm not going anywhere, dozer

I plan to stay right here and defend the great Democratic party against lies from racist asswipes like the NRA.

[demsrule4life]

13. Thanks for posting these list's

Makes life easier on who not to donate money to come CFC time.

[MrBenchley]

14. Sure thing, "dems"

Shows your true colors.

[demsrule4life]

15. I'am

My right not to spend my money.

[BullDozer]

17. Keeper of the faith? Hahahahahahahahaha!

I plan to stay right here and defend the great Democratic party against...............the NRA.

Then by god you'd better make sure no one accepts any money from them ever again, since they've done so in the past.

[MrBenchley]

18. Hahahahahahahahahaha...

Yeah,, who can forget all the "support" the NRA gave to Al Gore....

"In any other time or place you'd be looking for a lynching mob." The crowd responded with "let's do it" and "I've got a rope."
-- The Grand Rapids Press, October 17, 2000 quoting NRA president Charlton Heston and describing audience reaction.

But go ahead and keep pretending the NRA isn't an adjunct of the GOP....it undermines your credibility much better than anything I could ever say.

[BullDozer]

23. Face the facts

Yeah,, who can forget all the "support" the NRA gave to Al Gore....

I never said that the NRA provided any support to Al Gore.


In any other time or place you'd be looking for a lynching mob." The crowd responded with "let's do it" and "I've got a rope."
-- The Grand Rapids Press, October 17, 2000 quoting NRA president Charlton Heston and describing audience reaction

Why don't you look and see what the official Secret Service investigation into what you think was a threat against the then Vice President has to say about that non-event.

But go ahead and keep pretending the NRA isn't an adjunct of the GOP....

And you go right ahead living in the fantasy world where the NRA never has supported any Democrats.
I guess these amounts must have been paid out in monopoly money then?

Top Democratic House Recipients Of NRA PAC Contributions
1/1/89 Through 12/31/98

Alan Mollohan (D-WV/1) 43,100
Nick Joe Rahall (D-WV/3) 42,350
Earl F. Hilliard (D-AL/7) 40,150
Pat Danner (D-MO/6) 36,650
Tim Holden (D-PA/6) 34,650
Ike Skelton (D-MO/4) 34,200
Bart Stupak (D-MI/1) 31,700

Top Democratic Beneficiaries Of NRA Independent Expenditures Among Current House Members
1/1/97 Through 12/31/98

Ted Strickland (D-OH/6) 28,393
David Phelps (D-IL/19) 27,723

NRA Independent Expenditures For Democratic Federal Candidates
1/1/89 Through 12/31/98

1989-90 $61,898
1991-92 327,980
1993-94 151,229
1995-96 44,572
1997-98 58,166

NRA PAC Contributions To Democrat Federal Candidates And National Party Committees
1/1/89 through 12/31/98

1989-90 $263,708
1991-92 604,392
1993-94 377,920
1995-96 262,600
1995-96 262,600


http://www.commoncause.org/publications/june99/061599.htm
You will see that Republicans got a hell of a lot more money from the NRA than Democrats did, but to try and deny that the NRA has provided support to Democrats is a bold lie to attempt to make. It seems clear that if you support their cause you can get money, if you don't then you won't get any money. Makes sense to me.


March 26, 1999
Democrat Representatives Receiving More
Than $30,000 in Financial Support
From the NRA

Gene Green (D-TX/29) $161,590
Harold Volkmer (D-MO/9) $126,505
Patsy Ann Danner (D-MO/6) $50,656
Pete Geren (D-TX/12) $43,117
Frederick Boucher (D-VA/9) $41,600
Charles Wilson (D-TX/2) $38,447
Bart Stupak (D-MI/1) $36,894
Alan Mollohan (D-WV/1) $33,200
Bill Brewster (D-OK/3) $32,625

http://www.commoncause.org/publications/nrareps.htm

[MrBenchley]

24. Keep on playing let's pretend, dozer....

There might even be someone dumb enough to believe the NRA isn't a bunch of right wing loonies...but I don't know who that would be.

"to try and deny that the NRA has provided support to Democrats is a bold lie"
Not nearly as bold a LIE as trying to pretend that they're pro-Democrat....or non-racist..

[BullDozer]

26. All of thoser hard facts hurt don't they?

There might even be someone dumb enough to believe the NRA isn't a bunch of right wing loonies

That doesn't square with the fact that the NRA has a history of providing money to Democrats.


Not nearly as bold a LIE as trying to pretend that they're pro-Democrat

Gee I guess the money that they've spent on Democrats doesn't prove anything then? It sure would to a sensible person.

Face it Benchley the NRA is progun and they don't care if its a D or an r after a name they want the support for their position.

[MrBenchley]

28. Not even close to true

but it's hilarious to see you keep pretending...

"Face it Benchley the NRA is progun"
AND racist. AND as far right wing as any bunch of loonies that can be found.

"the NRA has a history of providing money to Democrats. "
Hey, Enron gave the GOP millions and the Democrats thousands too...want to pretend Ken Lay supports Democrats too?

[BullDozer]

31. Anything to say from you but more blah blah blah?

AND as far right wing as any bunch of loonies that can be found.

That doesn't square with the fact that the NRA has a history of providing money to Democrats.

You must be the only person in the world to think that giving millions of dollars to Democrats doesn't in any way shape or form equate to support.

AND racist

Peddle your racism screeching bicycle right on out of here.

In all of the time I've read your posts wailing about that I have yet to see you provide a single instance of proof to show that the NRA as an organization is a racist institution.

[MrBenchley]

33. Sure, dozer...

"I have yet to see you provide a single instance of proof to show that the NRA as an organization is a racist institution. "
Two words, dozer: Ted Nugent.

[BullDozer]

34. Bahhahahahahahha!

I have yet to see you provide a single instance of proof to show that the NRA as an organization is a racist institution

Two words, dozer: Ted Nugent

If that's all you have then by what seems to pass as logic within some circles that means that the United States Senate and the United States House of Representatives are both racist institutions?

In other words how many Senators and Congressman have been labeled as racists over the years?

Fuck Benchley I've had nearly a gallon of beer tonight (that's 3.79 Liters for our metric friends) and I can see right through your sham.

Prove that the NRA as an organization is a racist institution.

[MrBenchley]

35. Jeff Cooper

"I was astounded to read these courageous remarks by Charlton Heston. I am thankful to hear a man with such high esteem say essentially the same things for which I have been reviled by the liberal media. His words should be reproduced and put into the hands of every American."

http://www.duke.org/writings/heston.html

DO let us know the next time you find David Duke cheering for a Congressperson.....

[BullDozer]

39. Still waiting

I have yet to see you provide a single instance of proof to show that the NRA as an organization is a racist institution.

David Duke writes an article declaring the greatness of pizza.
That in no way taints pizza for everyone else.

You just don't get it.



Prove that the NRA as an organization is a racist institution.

[MrBenchley]

42. Who are ytou kiddinng, dozer?

"David Duke writes an article declaring the greatness of pizza."
Yeah? Let's see it....

[BullDozer]

44. Follow along now......

Yeah? Let's see it

Gee bench let me introduce you the concept of a methapor being used to make a point.

I have yet to see you provide a single instance of proof to show that the NRA as an organization is a racist institution.

[MrBenchley]

49. Been there, done that, dozer

Putting the NAACP, the American Jewish Committee, the American Jewish Congress, the Anti-Defamation League, B'nai B'rith, the Congress of National Black Churches, Inc., the National Council of Jewish Women, the National Council of Negro Women, the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, the National Political Congress of Black Women, and the National Urban League, Inc., on an enemies list.

By the way, what did they do when one of their board members spouted racist gibberish in public this spring? Remind us, dozer. Did they censure him?

[juancarlos]

36. Assuming.

If I read responses to people on my ignore list correctly, somebody from New Jersey has postulated that the NRA is a racist institution. Going by his apparent logic that a racist member or members makes an entire organization racist, would not Senator Byrd's status as a past honcho in the KKK mean that our entire party is racist? Wait, the past behaviour our current behaviour of a person is not indicative of a group? I can't believe it! Obviously we are not racist, as a party. Therefore, any statements that the NRA, as an organization, is racist are similarly invalid. Heck, they are the ones fighting laws that would prevent low-income people from affording defensive weapons. If that is racist, then so is affirmative action.

[MrBenchley]

43. Too frigging funny...

The RKBA crowd dredges up right wing horseshit about Robert Byrd.

[slackmaster]

48. Sen. Byrd's past membership in the KKK is a matter of public record

Not horseshit at all.

[MrBenchley]

52. Peddle right wing slander, slack

it's what we've come to expect from the RKBA crowd.

What was the name of this place again?

[slackmaster]

55. It's not slander, it's fact

He even used the N word as recently as March 2001 on Fox News Sunday:

"There are white {N word deleted). I've seen a lot of white {N word deleted) in my time. I'm going to use that word. We just need to work together to make our country a better country, and I'd just as soon quit talking about it so much."

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/michelle/malkin030801.asp

[MrBenchley]

58. MICHELE MALKIN?

What's next in your arsenal, slack? Rush Limbaugh? Ann Coulter?

Thanks for showing your true colors, slack.

[slackmaster]

61. Would you like me to find the same Byrd quote somewhere else?

Senator Byrd made the statement on a cable program broadcast all over the world. Michelle Malkin was just quoting him.

Here's another source:

http://chblue.com/Article.asp?ID=858

"NAACP President Kweisi Mfume was not particularly impressed by
Byrd's apology. He telephoned The Associated Press to say the fact
that Byrd felt ``comfortable enough on nationwide TV to refer to
any group in that manner suggests that any progress he has made on
race is relative.''

Or if that source is too conservative for you, how about the Washington Post?

http://washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A22314-2001Mar4.html

[MrBenchley]

64. At THIS point?

No, I'm not interested in hearing you wallow in right wing slander, slack.

[slackmaster]

65. There is no slander here, just facts

Senator Byrd does not deny making the statement with the N word. He even apologized for it.

If he thinks I am slandering him then he can bloody well sue me.

[MrBenchley]

66. Surrrrrrrrrrrrrre....

[slackmaster]

69. Are you denying that Byrd made those inappropriate remarks?

Or are you claiming that once someone has made a racist remark he or she will always be a racist for life?

Which untenable position are you supporting now, MrBenchley?

[MrBenchley]

72. Keep digging, slack

[slackmaster]

75. WTF are you talking about?

Digging what?

Senator Byrd made some racially insensitive remarks in March 2001 and subsequently apologized for them.

I do not believe Senator Byrd is a racist.

[MrBenchley]

77. We can tell....

[slackmaster]

79. Who is "we", MrBenchley?

For a person who claims that nobody cares what I think, you do an awful lot of responding on behalf of everyone when I challenge your reasoning.

[MrBenchley]

82. Tell it to Michelle Malkin

[slackmaster]

85. How about Kweisi Mfume?

If Mr. Mfume happens to agree with Michelle Malkin does that make him wrong?

[MrBenchley]

88. Be sure and tell them at the NAACP you're from the NRA

they'll put you right thrrough to Mr. Mfume...(snicker)

[slackmaster]

37. Fallacy of Composition

You're saying that because one member of the NRA's board of directors is a racist in your opinion, that the NRA as a whole is a racist organization.

That doesn't pass the logic test MrBenchley. Even if you were to bring up specifics and prove that Ted Nugent is a racist your claim about the NRA would still be fallacious. If you want to show that the NRA is a racist organization you'll need to come up with specific racist actions the NRA has done or at least official statements of policy that reflect racism.

[MrBenchley]

41. RKBA "logic"

"If you want to show that the NRA is a racist organization you'll need to come up with specific racist actions the NRA has done "
Let's see....how about putting the NAACP, the American Jewish Committee, the American Jewish Congress, the Anti-Defamation League, B'nai B'rith, the Congress of National Black Churches, Inc., the National Council of Jewish Women, the National Council of Negro Women, the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, the National Political Congress of Black Women, and the National Urban League, Inc., on an enemies list....

Or how about their president giving a speech to a far right wing extremist organization that DAVID DUKE hailed for its agreement with HIS message?

"Even if you were to bring up specifics and prove that Ted Nugent is a racist"
Yeah, slack, there's a lot of doubt about THAT.

[BullDozer]

45. Get a grip

Let's see....how about putting the NAACP, the American Jewish Committee, the American Jewish Congress, the Anti-Defamation League, B'nai B'rith, the Congress of National Black Churches, Inc., the National Council of Jewish Women, the National Council of Negro Women, the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, the National Political Congress of Black Women, and the National Urban League, Inc., on a list of groups that have lent monetary, grassroots or other support to anti-gun organizations

How in the FUCK is that racist?

[slackmaster]

46. Another Fallacy of Composition

The fact that you can cherry-pick a few civil rights advocacy groups out of a lengthy list does not prove the purpose of the list is anti-civil rights.

Or how about their president giving a speech to a far right wing extremist organization that DAVID DUKE hailed for its agreement with HIS message?

A Fallacy of Division. We might just as well conclude that since David Duke likes beer that everyone who drinks beer is a racist.

Do you have any evidence that the NRA is a racist organization other than the circular reasoning you have presented?

[MrBenchley]

50. Who are you tryinng to kid, slack?

"We might just as well conclude that since David Duke likes beer that everyone who drinks beer is a racist."
Gee, DO let us know when Duke hails some brand of beer as beinng white people's beer.

[slackmaster]

53. And you let US know

When the NRA starts restricting its membership to white people, or when it starts espousing racist policies.

[MrBenchley]

54. Been there, done that

It's a racist bunch of loonies.

[slackmaster]

56. Please explain how they prevent non-whites from joining

Here's a link to the NRA's membership application.

https://membership.nrahq.org/forms/signup.asp

I don't see any questions about race, ethnicity, gender, etc. The only truly personal question is date of birth.

[MrBenchley]

59. Peddle it elsewhere, slack

They're racist idiots...

[slackmaster]

62. Unfounded statement

n/t

[MrBenchley]

67. The NRA is racist

I think David Duke's endorsement carries more weight than your wailing.

[slackmaster]

70. Ipse Dixit

n/t

[MrBenchley]

74. As far as this nonsense is concerned, yeah

If you want to go ahead pretending that Byrd is a racist and Nugent and his gang of morons isn't, do it without me, slack.

[slackmaster]

80. I've never said that Senator Byrd is a racist

Please stop misrepresenting my position. It's inappropriate, uncivil, and disrespectful.

[MrBenchley]

84. Yeah, surrrrrrrrrrre.....

Tell it to Michelle Malkin.

[slackmaster]

86. Cite or retract

Or go to your grave a liar.

[MrBenchley]

89. Hahahahahahahaha!!

Yeah, surrrrrrrre...I think instead I'll go to my grave somebody who doesn't try to pimp for racists like the asswipes at the NRA.

[slackmaster]

91. You are completely missing my point

I'm not defending the NRA. I'm attacking your unfounded and illogical statements.

[MrBenchley]

29. From MWO......

""Last week I received a call from the NRA. The woman on the phone breathlessly foretold of Hillary Clinton's impending takeover of the White House. Concerned, I asked if Hillary had gathered troops for an armed insurrection. She replied, no, she is planning on running for president. That's not quite the same as a takeover, I said. Becoming president requires convincing the majority of voters to select you intentionally. That's a bit different than a "takeover." That's a bit more like, say, the democratic process. I know they were promoting anti-Hillary hysteria for fund raising purposes. But I am sick of these people, and these tactics. And I worry about all those folks who reached for their guns and checkbooks when they received this same call.

On a positive side, I had the pleasure of introducing Paul Krugman to an enthusiastic audience of over 600 in Portland, OR last Saturday evening.

Keep up the good work."

http://www.mediawhoresonline.com/

[slackmaster]

38. Hyperbole and hysteria work both ways

Yesterday I got a letter from Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi soliciting money to fight the VRWC. To a neutral observer its tone is every bit as over the top as the comments attributed to an NRA person soliciting money to fight the VLWC.

[MrBenchley]

40. Surrrrrrrre, slack....

What was the name of this place again?

[slackmaster]

47. What difference does that make?

I'm calling a spade a spade.

[MrBenchley]

51. Sure you are, slack....

Now go peddle right wing horsecrap to someone dumb enough to fall for it.

[slackmaster]

57. Civility and respect, MrBenchley

Practice them, live by them, and you will be rewarded.

[MrBenchley]

60. By who?

The sort of "enthusiast" who slanders Byrd publicly and tries to spin away the racist actions of the NRA?

No thanks.

[slackmaster]

63. Nobody has slandered Senator Byrd here

...and tries to spin away the racist actions of the NRA?

I'd like to have an opportunity to examine and discuss with you the alleged racist actions of the NRA, but so far nobody has provided any evidence that they exist.

[MrBenchley]

68. Surrrrrrrrrre....

Tell it to Michele Malkin.

[slackmaster]

71. Or the Washington Post?

n/t

[MrBenchley]

73. Surrrrrrrrrre....

Where was it the Washington Post was bringing up Byrd to show that Ted Nugent wasn't racist?

[slackmaster]

76. You're missing the point

Ted Nugent has made some racially insensitive remarks. So has Senator Byrd.

The NRA's board of directors did not censure Ted Nugent for his remarks.

The United States Senate did not censure Senator Byrd for his remarks.

Senator Byrd's remarks do not justify calling the entire US Senate or the federal government racist.

Ted Nugent's remarks do not justify calling the NRA's board of directors or the entire NRA racist.

See the parallel?

[MrBenchley]

78. Surrrrrrrre I am, Slacck....

You keep on peddling that rubbish, and I'll keep pointing out that the NRA is racist.

[slackmaster]

81. You have yet to present a shred of real evidence that NRA is racist

You have a fallacy of composition and circular reasoning, but nothing that reflects on the true overall position of the organization.

[MrBenchley]

83. Sure I have

and you've been trying desperately to drag in Senator Byrd to spin it away.

[slackmaster]

87. No you haven't

Not today, not ever.

[MrBenchley]

90. Sure I have

Now go cry about it to Michelle Malkin.

[slackmaster]

92. Have not.

[juancarlos]

93. You cannot argue with certain people.

Certain people refuse to argue rationally. When I come across people who either refuse to use valid arguements, or who lack the capacity for rationed arguement I simply hit use the DU feature that allows me to ignore them. You ought to try it.

[Wcross]

25. Gee Benchley

Who has been posting links for the Klan? You have a lot of nerve in complaining about others posting habits!

[MrBenchley]

30. Gee, cross

What is it that the Klan is pimping for (hint: It's the same thing the NRA's phony organization is pimping for here)?

[solinvictus]

16. California

The state's ban affects mostly inexpensive guns (imports) meaning that only those with disposable income can purchase them.

[juancarlos]

19. That is not true.

It bans almost every gun that exists. Only a few have a magazine disconnect feature, and very few have a magazine disconnect and a loaded chamber indicator. The most vaunted handgun of all time, the 1911A1 has neither, yet it is one of the safest guns available. The favorite Beretta, Glock, Springfield, Ruger, Sig, Smith & Wesson, and Kimber guns of the police agencies don't have these features.

[demsrule4life]

20. Most Smith & Wesson pistols

have the magazine safety.

[juancarlos]

21. but not the chamber indicator

I'm going to check for sure, though.

[demsrule4life]

22. You are right

And I only own Colt Government models. :)

[solinvictus]

27. CA ban

You're right, California's ban is worse than I thought. No wonder it's suffering a hemmorhage of tax payers.

[Hoot]

32. Thats why I left kalifornia

High taxs, ridicules gun bans, etc..
The college tuition was real nice in the middle of the 90's, about $3 per credit but now it's $18 a credit! All that tax money isn't going to help fund education!

[FlashHarry]

94. Locking

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