Gun Pipeline Closed in Jamestown Raid (Toronto)

[iverglas]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20060519.RAIDS19/TPStory/TPNational/Ontario/

Pre-dawn raids break up firearms 'pipeline'

TORONTO -- In the biggest anti-gang roundup the Greater Toronto Area has yet seen, co-ordinated early-morning raids yesterday by more than 600 police officers produced scores of arrests, shut down a U.S.-Canada firearms conduit and seized hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of drugs and cash.

... At least 20 guns were seized, including two MAC-10 machine pistols and an AK-47 assault rifle, along with more than 15 kilograms of cocaine, large amounts of marijuana and other street drugs and cash.

... Police also disrupted what Chief Blair termed "a pipeline" of firearms flowing into Canada from the U.S. South, supplying not only the Jamestown gang -- sometimes referred to as the Jamestown Crips -- but other groups outside Toronto.

He did not specify the point of origin of the weapons, but a police source said it was believed to be Florida.

http://www.640toronto.com/news/metro.cfm?cat=7428109912&rem=38381&red=80110923aPBIny&wids=410&gi=1&gm=metro.cfm

The Jamestown Crips weren't the only targets in the massive raid across Rexdale yesterday.

Toronto and provincial police say they also cut off a pipeline of weapons coming up to southern Ontario from the US.

Toronto Inspector Greg Getty says those guns were coming up from a supplier out of Houston, Texas, sold to a buyer in Ontario and then redistributed across southern Ontario.

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1147989016221&call_pageid=968332188492&col=968793972154

Yesterday's massive gang sweep in the city's northwest end is a "significant step" toward ensuring Toronto does not experience a repeat of last year's unprecedented rash of gun violence, police Chief Bill Blair says.

"The police and our partners in the community are working very hard to ensure we do not experience another summer of the gun," he said yesterday, using the ubiquitous phrase adopted by media outlets to describe the bloodshed that took dozens of lives.

... The operation, which Blair called the largest-ever sweep in the history of the Toronto police, involved 600 officers carrying out pre-dawn, GTA-wide and beyond raids.

It targeted members of the Jamestown Crew who, police say, are responsible for importing guns from the U.S., running a criminal organization and trafficking in firearms and narcotics.

The combined raid involved members of the OPP, the Peel, Durham and York Region police departments, the Brantford city police and the Montreal police, as well as U.S. authorities.

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national/story.html?id=635483f8-825e-469d-98c3-289052ae652d&k=5362

Toronto police say more than 1,000 criminal charges are expected after a series of raids targeting a notorious street gang.

Deputy police chief Tony Warr says 106 suspected members and affiliates of the Jamestown Crew - considered one of the city's most violent gangs - were arrested.

Warr says the charges include attempted murder, trafficking in firearms, trafficking in drugs, various weapons charges, and conspiracy.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Law/2006/05/19/1588235-sun.html

A police source said yesterday the plan was to let the six-month long Project XXX continue a little longer, but police decided to move yesterday to prevent a recurrence of last year's gun violence as warmer weather arrives.

... Blair said earlier in the day 20 firearms had been seized, including 14 handguns, two ARP-15 rifles, two Mac 10 machine pistols and an AK-47. But a source said the number of seized firearms had surpassed the 20 mark by the dinner hour.

Blair said American authorities are also assisting in shutting down the gun pipeline, which apparently begins in the southern U.S. and goes to Brantford.

And of course the Mounties got their men:

In one raid, a Mountie tactical team got stuck when their elevator stalled at 30 Humberline Dr. But the team climbed out of the elevator, scaled the elevator shaft and completed their raid, seizing at least two guns from their target address.

And the Conservative scum in Parliament think they're going to dismantle the firearms registry. Ha. It actually isn't directly related to these incidents, but the Canadian public, outside of the Conservatives' right-wing fundie-fascist constituency, really is not impressed by their gunnuttery, and isn't going to be persuaded by incidents like these that anything needs to be done to make firearms more accessible inside Canada. Really.

[Township75]

1. Good work by the police!

"And the Conservative scum in Parliament think they're going to dismantle the firearms registry. Ha. It actually isn't directly related to these incidents, but the Canadian public, outside of the Conservatives' right-wing fundie-fascist constituency, really is not impressed by their gunnuttery, and isn't going to be persuaded by incidents like these that anything needs to be done to make firearms more accessible inside Canada. Really."

Wouldn't it be better to use the funds directed towards the gun registry to fund more operations like what is outlined above? I may have missed a previous thread on the topic, but as far as I know, the gun registry hasn't been used to capture a criminal or prevent a crime.

The operations you linked to appear to have been much more productive in catching gun peddlers and likely stopping gun crimes from occuring than the gun registry. If the registry is going no where, why not put the funds into something that has offered results?

I realize you can have them both as well, but unless the gun registry produces some results (or already has), it is a sink hole for funds.

[iverglas]

3. the funds

After the initial start-up, it appears that the firearms registry has cost me $3 per year over the last 3 years. (Well, a little more, accounting for children and other people who don't pay taxes and me being in a high income/tax bracket.) I'm happy.


I may have missed a previous thread on the topic, but as far as I know, the gun registry hasn't been used to capture a criminal or prevent a crime.

I'll bet it also hasn't been used to vacuum my rug or find the value of pi.

Police consistently report that they access the registry thousands of times a day. Maybe they just find that more fun than looking at porn on the net.

Actually, I'd think they access it for some purpose.

Do forgive my sarcasm, but you may recall how distasteful I find straw-thingy arguments.

Perhaps you just misapprehend the purpose of the firearms registry. You may think that it is intended solely as a way of tracing firearms used in crimes. It isn't. Not by a very long chalk. And it is only one component of a firearms program, it should be recalled.

It is accessed by police to enforce firearms prohibition orders imposed by courts (i.e. in order to search for and confiscate any firearms a person subject to such an order might have).

It is accessed by police to determine whether any firearms are known to be at a location they plan to visit. (Yes, unregistered firearms can also be at such locations, so no, I don't think they use the registry to assure themselves that no firearms are present. It does, however, given them data to use in combination with whatever other intelligence they also have.)

And its mere existence serves as a deterrent to any lawful owner of a registered firearm -- a deterrent from storing it insecurely and from transferring it illegally.

The police do not offer much detail regarding what they are using the registry 5,000 times a day for, unfortunately, but that's to be expected when what they're engaged in is investigative and enforcement activities and they don't generally disclose the details of their techniques and of on-going investigations.

For a critique of the number-of-hits statements, see here:
http://www.cdnshootingsports.org/police_use_of_registry_exaggerated.html
"Canadian Shooting Sports Association, Canadian Institute for Legislative Action"
(gee, what a novel moniker)
Frankly, I don't care whether it's intentionally accessed 5,000 times a day or 5,000 times a week (what the estimate for queries in Ontario minus automaticly generated queries seems to be).


Some examples of actual, active use of the registry (that I have probably quoted before):

http://www.canada.justice.gc.ca/en/news/nr/2003/doc_30840.html

The success of the registration and licensing system is not just demonstrated by numbers and statistics. There are many real-life examples of the difference the firearms program is making by enhancing public safety and combating crime. The following are just a few examples showing the importance of the licensing and registration system in keeping guns out of the wrong hands.

In June 2000, the firearms registry played a pivotal role in uncovering what is believed to be one of the largest and most sophisticated firearm smuggling rings in North America. Firearms program staff became suspicious and alerted police when faced with an unusual number of requests to transfer firearm parts. The investigation led to a Montreal-based importer, a Toronto area firearm dealer and a US resident. This partnership and co-operative approach involved Canadian Customs, Ontario's Provincial Weapons Enforcement Unit, Montreal police, and the firearms registry staff in Miramichi and Ontario, as well as the RCMP. It resulted in the seizure of nearly 23,000 firearms and prohibited components.

Last summer in B.C., an individual involved in divorce proceedings became upset in a courtroom and later threatened to kill those involved in the proceedings including his spouse, her lawyer and the judge. After checking the registry, police determined that the suspect had recently received a firearms licence and had three handguns registered to him. The investigation led to an arrest and seizure of the guns.

An individual in British Columbia with a valid Firearms Acquisition Certificate (the precursor to the new licence) attempted to purchase several firearms over a two-week period. The background check indicated numerous prior convictions and several recent incidents involving criminal and violent activities. His licence was suspended pending further investigation. The sales were refused. The individual later attempted two more times to purchase firearms until his licence was revoked and his firearms seized.

A Nova Scotia woman called the program's notification line with a concern that her estranged husband was applying for a licence. He planned to indicate that he did not have a spouse on his application form because she had refused to sign it. Concerned for herself and the safety of her children, she later filed a complaint with the local police agency to generate a reference on the new Firearms Interest to Police (FIP) database (a reference log which indicates that an individual has recently been involved in a violent incident, has a history of mental illness or other information relevant to a firearms licence application). If her husband tries to obtain a licence in the future, it will automatically prompt an investigation.

This same FIP database matched several cases of domestic abuse to valid licence holders in Quebec. Their licences were revoked.

In Atlantic Canada, an individual threatened to obtain a gun and use it in the workplace to express his anger. Police prepared a warrant and conducted firearms registry checks. These determined that the suspect had nine firearms (both restricted and non-restricted) registered to him. The firearms, along with a prohibited weapon, were seized.

A court hearing was held in Alberta for an individual who had been refused a licence. The licence was refused due to a psychiatrist's opinion that the applicant should not have firearms. In addition, there were a number of discrepancies in the individual's application form and a history of criminal convictions. The Firearms Officer's decision to refuse the licence was upheld by the judge.

As a result of a criminal harassment investigation in Western Canada, a search warrant was executed on a residential address after a check of the firearms registry revealed that a suspect had restricted firearms registered to him. Firearms were recovered inside the suspect's house, including 15 handguns, 3 machine guns, and a total of 9 rifles and shotguns.

Police obtained a gun that had been stolen from a residence in Newfoundland 15 years ago. They managed to locate the gun in Quebec during a transfer of ownership through the registry and returned it to the original owner.

Various uses, as you see.

I'd say that former Liberal Finance Minister John Manley (while I'm on first-name terms with him, I think he's basically a right-wing dork, but what the hell) got it right:

http://www.parl.gc.ca/37/2/parlbus/chambus/house/debates/045_2002-12-13/han045_1115-e.htm

Hon. John Manley (Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, we know Alliance (precursor of present Conservative Party) members do not care about $72 million or anything else. They are against gun control. They are against the fact that we have already had more than 7,000 firearms licences refused or revoked, 50 times higher than had been the case before. They do not care about the fact that the police access this online system 1,500 times a day. They are against gun control. It is as simple as that.

... Mr. Speaker, if this gun registry is so bad, then why do the police agencies access it 1,500 a day? Why has the number of lost or missing firearms declined by 68%? Why has the number of stolen firearms decreased by 35% over the same period? Why are fewer firearms being used in crime?

And like I was saying: a decline in the number of lost or "missing" and stolen firearms. And that's a good thing, 'cause we do know what such things are likely to be used for.


http://www.cfc-ccaf.gc.ca/media/Speeches/CPPA_Aug.26_2004_e.asp

Notes for Remarks by The Commissioner of Firearms
to Delegates at the Canadian Professional Police Association Annual General Meeting
August 26, 2004 Saint John, New Brunswick

... The Firearms Program - licensing, registration and more

... The Canada Firearms Centre, working with federal and provincial partners, administers and monitors the following functions:

Licensing of all firearm owners and businesses, to provide reasonable assurance that only those persons who do not pose a public safety risk can own or deal firearms or ammunition,

Continuous screening of firearm licence holders to address any possible public safety risks,

Delivery of the national Canadian Firearms Safety Courses, required for all new licence applicants,

Public education regarding safe storage, use and transport of firearms,

Registration of all firearms, to reinforce owner accountability and responsibility, and provide police with information to help prevent injuries and investigate firearm-related crimes,

Regular inspections of firearm businesses and shooting ranges, to ensure inventory controls and safety, and

Import and export controls, to help track and manage the cross-border movement of firearms.

...We don't have access to local police case information. Let us know when the system helps crack a case.

... Since the Firearms Act came into effect in1998, Chief Firearms Officers across the country have revoked or refused 12,000 licences on public safety grounds.

Like I was saying: one component of the whole program.

[iverglas]

9. buying firearms in Houston

http://www.hamiltonspectator.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=hamilton/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1148335815081&call_pageid=1020420665036&col=1014656511815

Earle Theodore Cooke, 55, was renting a house in Houston, Texas, with his American wife when he bought 32 firearms from local gun dealers between November 2002 and October 2003, and spirited them into Canada.

In the forms to obtain the guns, he gave two Texas addresses, including 6205 Saxon Dr., where his landlord, Sam Schagrin, operated a business called Sam's Dental Lab Incorporated.

In May 2004, a U.S. jury convicted Cooke on 12 counts of lying to the firearms dealers by providing false addresses when he purchased the guns in Texas.

Well, that was easy, eh?

Presumably he also lied about his status in the US, as I seem to recall there being some question about that, that has to be answered. I wouldn't be surprised to hear he lied about a few other things, too.

During his four-day trial in April 2004, the jury heard Cooke bought the 32 firearms during nine transactions from various Houston dealers, including the Father & Son Swap Shop. "He was like any regular customer," said owner Carlos Bado. "We sell you the gun ... if the FBI says it's OK."

Maybe the dealer was acting in good faith, maybe he wasn't. Assume he was. Something's still very wrong with this picture.

Nothing a little licensing of firearms owners wouldn't have gone quite a way to fixing.

And hey, many thanks to the good burgher of Houston who took this guy's rent and never saw him or his wife work a day during their tenancy; nothing suspicious there:

Describing the agent as a "no good SOB", he added he was "blackmailed" into testifying against his tenant. He didn't feel he should have to testify because he had never seen any guns and didn't know Cooke was involved in crime.

See no evil, and get all pissy when asked to testify to the truth. Good neighbour Sam, that's our Sam Schagrin. Oh, okay, I shoulda said he got all chagrined when asked to testify ...

[iverglas]

2. the Kuwaiti take on it

http://www.kuna.net.kw/home/Story.aspx?Language=en&DSNO=867418

Canadian forces launch anti-terrorism raids

OTAWWA, May 19 (KUNA) -- Canadian security forces began on Friday a series of raids to terminate activity of a notorious gang involved in trafficking and violence and terror.

Over 600 officers from the Toronto Police Service took part in the raids, which resulted in arresting 78 people. The troops rounded up Jamestown Crew, a criminal organization that preyed on neighborhoods, using violence to intimidate law-abiding citizens. "The gang leaders were surgically removed," said Toronto Police Chief Bill Blair. The chief credited officers carrying out the raids with "military precision", taking reputed gang members into custody without a single shot being fired.

Heh.

[iverglas]

4. pix

Well, one pic.

http://www.torontopolice.on.ca/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=2261&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0

A partial weapons cache that held a community hostage was on full display in the wake of a massive investigation that struck a blow to a violent Toronto street gang.

“What you see before you today is a sampling of the firepower available to this criminal organization,” Insp. Greg Getty said, of the more than three-dozen handguns, shotguns, machine pistols on full display during a media conference at Toronto police headquarters.

Investigators updated reporters on the six-month long project that was aimed at dismantling the notorious Rexdale street gang.

In all, police seized numerous prohibited weapons including Tasers, cross-bows, knives, bulletproof vests and hundreds of rounds of ammunition. Also seized were 24 kilos of cocaine and marijuana as well as drug paraphernalia such as scales and packaging materials.

Almost $400,000 in cash, four vehicles and on motorcycle were seized as proceeds of crime.

Getty said the focus was getting the gang members off the streets as well as shutting down a pipeline of weapons coming into the city.

... Provincial Weapons Unit Insp. Steve Clegg said a collaborative effort with the Alcohol, Weapons and Tobacco Agency in the U.S. discovered a distribution network operating out of Texas. More than 100 weapons were being smuggled into the country illegally. Investigators have seized 24 of them.

Oh, I know; "more than 3 dozen", "more than 100" -- laughable, to someone not living in Toronto. A huge haul, to anyone who is. And the single biggest factor in the terror that these people inflicted on Toronto communities in recent times.

I'm waiting for the torrent of clever remarks about how Canada should be more vigilant about the smuggling of firearms into the country ... or how firearms sales in the US have nothing to do with firearms violence in Canada ... or whatever ...

[iverglas]

5. still looking for the details you crave

http://torontosun.com/News/2006/05/19/1588447.html

Police said a number of the weapons were smuggled by a Texas-based ring, of which two of the principals in jail.

U.S. authorities say they were led to the ring a couple of years ago after tracing a GTA crime handgun back to its source in Houston.

There should be stories in the Saturday papers, for those interested, e.g.:

www.thestar.ca
www.globeandmail.ca
or
www.cbc.ca
www.ctv.ca


http://www.torontosun.com/News/TorontoAndGTA/2006/05/19/1587876-sun.html

Blair refused to say if the arrests would clear any unsolved homicides, but sources said police know the suspects bragged about murdering people. The task is now to determine if the suspects were telling the truth.

Ha. Stupid them to pick that time to tell the truth, if so.

[iverglas]

6. and a few more

http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20060520/jamestown_crew_060520/20060520?hub=TorontoHome

A Canadian man in a United States penitentiary was one of the main sources of guns for the Toronto street gang whose members and associates were rounded up during the city's largest ever gang sweep, according to a report.

The Toronto Star reports Jamestown Crew gang members were driving to a Six Nations Reserve near Brantford, about 100 kilometres southwest of Toronto, and buying guns from Earle Cooke.

Cooke is currently serving time in an Oklahoma prison for weapons offences.

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1148077815671&call_pageid=968350130169

However, he didn't elaborate about the inner workings of the gun pipeline or how the guns were smuggled into the country. He did say guns used by gang members here originated in Houston, Texas. Getty added that 180 firearms "were sourced from Texas and other locations being utilized by this distribution network into Canada."

Toronto police first stumbled across Cooke's gun-running business in 2003, when several guns he had supplied to criminals were recovered and traced back to purchases he had made while living in Texas. Police here contacted their counterparts with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

What U.S. investigators found was that although the man lived on the Six Nations reserve in Ohsweken, he claimed to have resided in Texas. Cooke bought firearms from gun shops in Houston and listed Houston addresses as his home. It's a crime in the U.S. to falsify firearms paperwork.

The ATF moved in on Oct 21, 2003, as Cooke returned to Texas from Ontario. He was convicted and sent to prison for a year in November 2005. But court documents show that he didn't begin serving his sentence until February of this year. The massive police investigation into the Jamestown Crew was well underway by that point, culminating in the arrests this week.

Gee. If he'd had to have a licence to buy all those firearms ... well, he couldn't have bought any of them. Not from a law-abiding gunne shoppe, anyhow. And who knows ... if there had been any records of the firearms he was buying, the straw nature of his purchases just might have been rather obvious.

Now: sent to prison for a year? I'm curious: opinions about the appropriateness of that sentence, for gun-running?


http://www.680news.com/news/local/article.jsp?content=20060520_095627_5344

Toronto Police officials also say that investigators uncovered plots for several murders that they were able to prevent. Many of the accused were well known to police and have lengthy records.

[iverglas]

7. always room for a bit more

I know how you're all following this story with intense interest.

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1148161810941&call_pageid=976163513378&col=969048863474

Willis and four others were behind bars when police swooped down and arrested about 100 members and associates of the northwest Toronto-based street gang in a series of pre-dawn raids Thursday. Bail hearings are scheduled to begin Tuesday.

... As well, Grant and Willis, along with 13 others, are being accused of running the day-to-day operations of the gang, directing its members to carry out crimes. That's a more serious charge called "instructing commission of a criminal offence for criminal organization" and carries a maximum penalty of life imprisonment.

... In the summer of 2002, Willis was charged with killing Amar Young, 19, who was shot in the head and torso after the Junior Caribana Carnival Parade. ... But the first-degree murder charge was withdrawn in February 2003, after two key witnesses, both half-brothers of the victim, refused to testify, one of them recanting his initial story.

... "It's easy to say 'step forward and help out,' but when the fear factor is that great when a brother won't testify against the alleged murderer of your own brother, it just shows the ability to instill fear that these guys had."

Ya just gotta ENFORCE THE EXISTING LAWS, right? Wave that magic wand, make them bad guys go away first so the witnesses will testify, and THEN them bad guys off the street ... I guess ...

[iverglas]

8. and just for good measure

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1148077815253&call_pageid=968256290204&col=968350116795

Police Chief Bill Blair yesterday reported that 106 suspects, including prominent Crew leaders, were in custody, after Thursday's meticulously executed, high-visibility raids. They face charges that include attempted murder, conspiracy, and trafficking in firearms and drugs.

... Moreover, as Blair rightly notes, the police can do only so much. "The social, economic and cultural conditions that give rise to violence in our society have not been fully addressed," he said. The good news is that we are making a start.

Mayor David Miller has recognized that public safety requires a "working partnership" that also includes city council, Queen's Park, local civic leaders and business.

St. Jamestown and other vulnerable neighbourhoods now get special funding to attract businesses and jobs, provide mentoring and job training, upgrade community centres, repair playgrounds, and improve programs for youth at risk.

You remember Mayor Miller ... the one who wanted a flat ban on handguns? And how there's always someone nattering hereabouts about how it's those underlying problems, those root causes of violence, that need to be addressed?

Maybe we could listen to what the people of Jamestown are saying about whether they like the guns in their neighbourhood while they go about trying to attract businesses and use the playgrounds ...

[benEzra]

10. I'd be interested to know where THOSE came from...

TORONTO -- In the biggest anti-gang roundup the Greater Toronto Area has yet seen, co-ordinated early-morning raids yesterday by more than 600 police officers produced scores of arrests, shut down a U.S.-Canada firearms conduit and seized hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of drugs and cash.

... At least 20 guns were seized, including two MAC-10 machine pistols and an AK-47 assault rifle, along with more than 15 kilograms of cocaine, large amounts of marijuana and other street drugs and cash.

Since machine pistols aren't any more legal here than they are in Canada, I wonder if this is just a goof by the reporter, or if someone in the U.S. has a clandestine manufacturing facility going.

I'm assuming that the "AK-47" is mostly like a civilian lookalike, but if it's a real AK then it may have originated outside the U.S. also.

[iverglas]

11. hmm

Since machine pistols aren't any more legal here than they are in Canada, I wonder if this is just a goof by the reporter, or if someone in the U.S. has a clandestine manufacturing facility going.

I'm assuming that the "AK-47" is mostly like a civilian lookalike, but if it's a real AK then it may have originated outside the U.S. also.

I'm not sure ... does "not legal" mean "not available"? I wouldn't have thought so.

Are there no machine pistols and AK-47s in the US? If there are, were none of them ever legally owned?

[ManiacJoe]

13. That seems a little silly since

Ben is correct in his observation of the text.

Of course, "not legal" does not mean "not available"; but you knew that already.

Machine pistols and real AK-47s do exist in the USA just as they do in Canada, both legally and illegally. Unless my understanding of the Canadian gun laws is no longer accurate, legal ownership in both countries is subject to similar (but not the same) legal hoops.

From what I understand, smuggling guns is easer than smuggling drugs since (clean) guns have no tell-tale smell for search dogs to pick up on. And we all know how well the War On Drugs has ever gone.

[benEzra]

14. If they were legally owned since 1934, the BATFE keeps close tabs on them

as our NFA Title 2 registration and tracking requirements are VERY strict, you have to pass what amounts to a Secret-level government security clearance (sans only the polygraph) and obtain a BATFE Form 4 to purchase one--and only specially licensed Class III dealers are allowed to sell them. All post-'86 automatic weapons are restricted to military/police/security forces and their suppliers only, with no exceptions.

In the U.S., a civilian transferable AK-47 sells for about $15,000 USD, once you obtain the necessary clearances to purchase one, and they are quite rare.

If one had a machine shop, machinist skills, blueprints, and time, one could manufacture machine pistols/submachineguns and AK-47 receivers/fire control parts from scratch, were one criminally inclined. You can probably buy the appropriate machine tools for $15,000...

It has been my observation, at least as pertains to the U.S., that most descriptions of "machine pistols" and "AK-47's" in news stories end up referring to non-automatic civilian lookalikes (or even completely different guns), if you dig deeply enough. The same appears to be true of Canada.

Found this interesting article via a google search:

http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/NFA/Senate.pre/s-xv.995

In 1985, RCMP HQ became alarmed at the number of "machine guns"
being reported as used in crimes, in the initial crime reports.
A special study was done, in which all police forces reporting
"machine guns" were asked to go to the completed cases to
determine how many of the "machine guns" turned out not to be
real "machine guns."

All of the "machine guns" turned out not to be "machine guns"
except those reported by Montreal police. A check on that found
that the Montreal police had re-reported the initial report
figures. Once they had been required to check the later reports,
all of those "machine guns" also evaporated.

[iverglas]

15. ah yes, a google search

You'd really never seen that charming site before? I would think that even moi has cited it.

And that's fascinating, but the Toronto police seem to have been rather emphatic in their descriptions of the firearms in question.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060518/toronto_raids_060518/20060518?hub=CTVNewsAt11

During a noontime press conference, Police Chief Bill Blair itemized a deadly cache of weapons seized by officers.

"There are shotguns and pistols, 14 handguns, 2 AR-15 rifles, 2 Mak-10 automatic machine pistols and an AK-47 assault rifle," Blair said.

Here's one of the latest:
http://torontosun.com/News/TorontoAndGTA/2006/05/24/1595122-sun.html

The six-month project also netted 40 firearms (including three machine-pistols, a trimmed down AK-47 and numerous handguns), a crossbow, stun guns, knives, four body armour vests and hundreds of rounds of ammunition.

Twenty of the 21 firearms found in Thursday's raids were loaded and ready for use.

Maybe you know what a "trimmed down AK-47" is; I don't.


I guess we'll just have to wait and see where they all came from, if the information is released or comes out at trial.



And on the pit bull front (see what happens when you ask google news for toronto automatic guns?):

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1147816220138&call_pageid=968350130169&col=969483202845

Ban on breed is unconstitutional: Ruby
May 17, 2006. 01:00 AM
PETER SMALL
COURTS BUREAU

Pit bulls are like "the automatic guns of the dog world," and Ontarians have no constitutional right to own such dangerous animals, a government lawyer says.

Michael Doi was responding yesterday to a Charter challenge to the province's new pit bull ban by Toronto dog owner Catherine Cochrane and supporters.

Her lawyer, Clayton Ruby, says it's unconstitutional that she can be jailed for running afoul of a law that is too broad and vague. Society should punish bad owners who foster bad dogs, not keepers of one ill-defined breed, he has argued.

But, yesterday, Doi likened this view to a classic argument against gun control — that guns don't kill people; people do. "There is no constitutional right to an automatic weapon, and the same applies to pit bulls," he said.

Clay Ruby, our very own civil-libertarian lawyer. (He and the organization of progressive/left lawyers I belonged to parted company some decades ago.)

[benEzra]

16. My point was that a "MAC-10" is not necessarily a machine pistol

since non-automatic civilian MAC-10 lookalikes were indeed manufactured and marketed under the name "MAC-10," even though they are ordinary civilian pistols internally. The the officer in question may not realize there's a difference. Likewise, an "AK-47" may or may not be an actual AK-47. I dunno what percentage of Canadian peace officers are gun enthusiasts, but in the U.S., polls of officers have shown that about 68% think that the "AK's" sold in civilian gun stores are automatic weapons (the Allentown, PA poll from a few years ago). So your police spokesperson may not know how to tell the difference.


For example, this gun is NOT an AK-47, though many non-gunnies (and some gunnies) might mistake it for one:



The red type is irrelevant to this topic, as I annotated it to explain the difference between a ban-era civilian AK lookalike (1994-2004, this one's a 2002) and a preban/post-ban civvie AK lookalike (pre-'94 or post-'04).

Just because it looks like a duck doesn't mean it walks or quacks like one, to turn a cliche on its head...

[iverglas]

17. like I said, we'll just have to wait and see

All else is pure speculation.

The the officer in question may not realize there's a difference. Likewise, an "AK-47" may or may not be an actual AK-47.

The "officer in question" was the Toronto Chief of Police, as I recall. On the other hand, maybe he just doesn't see it making much difference what the bleeding thing was. I'm sure the public doesn't really care. The issue really wasn't whether it was legal to own it -- as it presumably is in all the little chats that go on about this subject all over the internet -- it was illegally possessed, no matter *what* it was.

And it was quite undoubtedly illegally purchased in the US, if that's where it came from -- again, no matter what it was.

[benEzra]

22. Agreed. Keep us posted? (n/t)

[iverglas]

23. I check often

But it's gonna be a long haul now. This looks like it's going to be another of the "super-trials" that eventually did in the Hell's Angels in Quebec. The logistics are horrific, and they can go for years. The big thing is that they're after them under the organized crime law, which makes it a crime to direct or further the criminal activities of a criminal organization, that sort of thing, and so the trials involve dozens of people.

The story has finally hit the radar outside Canada (well, it did show up at Reuters and in that Kuwaiti news service).

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0526/p07s02-woam.html

Canada cracks down on rising violence

... But while police and the public applaud the hard-line approach, social pundits and criminology professors are skeptical that the approach is getting at the roots of the problem: poverty, illiteracy, dysfunctional families, and racism in a diverse ethnic population. They cite US cities such as Boston, where a similar initiative led to an 80 percent drop in homicide rates by 1999 - a success dubbed the "Boston miracle." But fatal shootings have more than doubled since.

In Canada, guns and gangs are a relatively new phenomenon, particularly in Toronto, known as "Toronto the Good" for its traditionally safe streets and low homicide rates. There were 52 deadly handgun shootings in the city in 2005, compared with 12 in 1995. Police and social workers alike attribute the acts largely to young black males - many of whom are the children of West Indian immigrants - who feel marginalized and drop out of school early to join the "gangsta" culture where they make quick money through drugs, guns, or prostitution.

The Ontario provincial government has earmarked $51 million Canadian ($46 million US) to spend on crime deterrence and new social programs related to education, employment, and skills training - C$5 million of that has already been spent on forming a 24-hour police street squad who ferret out drug dealers, illegal guns, and people breaking parole or on warrants for crimes in Toronto's most violent neighborhoods.

All true, and all very well, but a community living in terror (which is what the situation has been in Jamestown) is not a community where skills training is going to solve all the problems.

None of which means that the boot-licker Harper needs any praise for trying to be Texas north:

In addition, Prime Minister Stephen Harper's new Conservative government recently introduced tough new legislation designed to curb handgun deaths, reduce the trafficking in illegal weapons, and shut down growing inner-city gangs. Coupled with other new legislation for "lesser" offenses like trying to steal a weapon, the initiatives will cost Canadian taxpayers an additional C$220 to C$240 million annually for extra prison facilities alone.

http://www.cbc.ca/toronto/story/tor-jamestown060524.html

Toronto police were out in force in Jamestown on Tuesday evening, flipping burgers, meeting residents and giving more details about last week's raid that resulted in scores of arrests of suspected gang members.

...But people who attended the informal barbeque on Tuesday said more than police action is needed to battle the growing gang problem. "When are we going to see a bigger community centre here in Jamestown community," said Prince Gbekley, who lives in the troubled neighbourhood in the city's northwest quadrant. "You see on the street, they have no where to go. All that they have to do is to join the gangs. We ask – and we been asking for and asking – for a bigger community centre.

Another article I saw mentioned how scarce places in programs tend to get taken by people from outside the neighbourhood who have access to computers to register faster. Hmm. If true, pretty dumb.

However, Reverend Don Meredith, who works with the GTA Faith Alliance in tackling gun crime in Toronto, told people in the audience that they had to take some responsibility for what was happening in the neighbourhood.

"The community has to take that into their own hands and say, 'If we see crime, we're going to report it,'" Meredith said.

Whether some other group moves in to fill the void this summer also remains to be seen. Would be nice to see the void treated as a window of opportunity for better things to happen.

Well, the Scientologists are on the case ...

http://www.scientology-tor.ca/community/drugs/index.html

In 1987, the "Say No to Drugs, Say Yes to Life" campaign was started by Scientologists concerned about the rising use of harmful drugs on the streets and in the schools of Toronto. Along with other community groups, they organized large concerts in Jamestown, Rexdale and other areas which attracted thousands of people and were used as a vehicle to get out the drug-awareness message. At the same time, they also instituted the Say No to Drugs, Say Yes to Life pledge which asked individuals, young and old, to pledge to live a drug-free life.

Oops, guess that didn't work.

[iverglas]

24. Here's a fun one

Pop quiz: what is it? I, of course, have no clue:





You're supposed to be able to view a larger image, but it seems the page is too old. There's also a link to a photo supplied by http://kalashnikov.guns.ru, presumably of an AK-47.

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national/story.html?id=5a6cf763-1370-47fd-ac78-6aaf73395eee&k=32245

Most moms catch their kids with cigarettes, dirty magazines, or trying to sneak out of the house.

Not this mom.

A Toronto woman is being praised by police Thursday for turning in her son, after finding a fully loaded AK-47 machine-gun sitting atop his bedroom pillow, along with an additional magazine full of bullets.

... The 17-year-old, who is bipolar, cannot be identified. He made a brief court appearance today on 13 charges, including several firearms charges and possession of cocaine.

Here's an even funner one, also from 1996 -- sorry, yes, the source is shit, but the tale is worth it.

http://www.canadafirst.net/back_issues/cih-jan.html

His name was Chang Thong Vo, but he was better known on the streets of Chinatown as Tommy or "No Wang Vo" because four years ago he accidentally shot off part of his penis with the .45-calibre handgun he kept stuffed down the front of his baggy blue jeans. Mr. Vo, who had spent most of his short life as a hired gun, freelancing his services to the highest bidder, was himself shot to death at a popular late-night seafood restaurant a few blocks from his home in Toronto's east-end Chinatown. (Toronto has several Chinatowns.)

... Vo was shot with an AK-47, which was left beside the body after the shooting." According to one Asian crime specialist, the AK-47 -- the weapon of choice of the Viet Cong and other guerrilla groups around the world because it is easy to clean and rarely jams -- is popular among Vietnamese gang members in Toronto, who can obtain them easily on native reserves in Ontario and Quebec. A loaded AK-47 left next to a victim's body is a popular "calling card" of Vietnamese gangs of which Mr. Vo was a minor but very violent member, police said.

Okay, I'll doubt the veracity of that entire last paragraph if you will.

And of course, no one stuffs a gun down his pants!!


On a more serious note, an article about the mechanics of the gun-running business:

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1148161810936&call_pageid=976163513378&col=969048863474

... Sometimes it's just a few handguns thrown into a dope deal that end up being smuggled through the Mohawk reserves on either side of the border in eastern Ontario — and often end up on the streets of Toronto and Montreal. Other times, police say, barrels of weapons are carried in speeding boats across the unguarded waters of the St. Lawrence River by well-armed smugglers who aren't afraid to shoot at law enforcement officers in pursuit.

The use of reserves for smuggling is well-documented and last week the problem — and the scope of it — was revealed by Toronto police, who pointed to the Six Nations reserve near Brantford as the source of the weapons seized from gang members belonging to Etobicoke's Jamestown Crew. The guns that originated in Texas had been smuggled across the border to the reserve. Police estimate the gun pipeline brought 180 weapons into Ontario.

Catching smugglers in the act is a nightmare for authorities because there is so much water to cover and too many unguarded roads straddle the border. On top of the geographic problems, there is the jurisdictional jigsaw puzzle of U.S. and Canadian police from local and federal levels, as well as tribal authorities. ...

Of course, as noted earlier, the police have not stated any reason to believe that anyone else resident on the Six Nations reserve was involved in this particular situation. Not that there are not criminals among the First Nations here just as in any other community. But it isn't just the First Nations people who take advantage of the border-straddling reserves, by any means.

Ah yes; I read on:

And it's not exclusively a native smuggling problem, says Derek Champagne, the district attorney for Franklin County, N.Y. "Natives, and more importantly non-natives, know this is the area if you want a handgun; if you want drugs, this is the place to get it from Canada to the U.S.," said Champagne.

And as of the date of that article, this week, the bikers were still regarded as the primary firearms traffickers.

No word on terrorists using the routes to get into the US though ...

[ManiacJoe]

28. With a bigger picture

and a view of the other side, we might be able to ID the gun model. It is certainly some variant of the AK-47 family.

[benEzra]

31. Looks like it could be a 1980's vintage Norinco civilian AK lookalike

with some sort of aftermarket folding stock and possibly a bipod (for looks, considering he probably couldn't exactly take it to the shooting range), but the photo is way too blurry to tell. The barrel is way too long to be a currently imported civvie AK lookalike; compare the amount of barrel in front of the gas block (diagonal part at the front of the upper tube) to the photo of my AK lookalike I posted above, and you'll see the difference. The only U.S. AK lookalike I've ever seen with a barrel that long was a Norinco.

If it was a U.S. civilian AK lookalike smuggled into Canada, it's not a machinegun; civvie AK lookalikes work just like any other civilian self-loader and have no automatic capability.

It is possible it's a Norinco AK-47 (a real one, full-auto), but very few of those were ever lawfully imported (the U.S. NFA Title 2 machinegun registry was closed in 1986), and those that were were very, very closely tracked. Most AK-47's of Warsaw Pact derivation had shorter barrels, so if it's a real one I'd still guess it's of Chinese or Southeast Asian origin.

If that was ever a U.S. civilian firearm, it should be a simple matter to run the serial number (even if it's ground off, it still can be read) to find out how it got there.

It's curious to me that they mention Vietnamese gangs in this context. AK-47's (real ones) are extremely cheap and plentiful in southeast Asia. Do these gangs do smuggling, or just distribution of drugs/etc. smuggled in from the States? Are Asian opioids much of an issue in Canada?

... The 17-year-old, who is bipolar, cannot be identified. He made a brief court appearance today on 13 charges, including several firearms charges and possession of cocaine.

Looks like the U.S. needs to ban cocaine to prevent its distribution in Canada. :D

His name was Chang Thong Vo, but he was better known on the streets of Chinatown as Tommy or "No Wang Vo" because four years ago he accidentally shot off part of his penis with the .45-calibre handgun he kept stuffed down the front of his baggy blue jeans. Mr. Vo, who had spent most of his short life as a hired gun, freelancing his services to the highest bidder, was himself shot to death at a popular late-night seafood restaurant a few blocks from his home in Toronto's east-end Chinatown. (Toronto has several Chinatowns.)

...

And of course, no one stuffs a gun down his pants!!

No one who wants to keep their, er, "Wang." This is precisely the reason why stuffing a gun in one's pants is a rather dubious idea...

[iverglas]

12. and another update for the insatiably curious

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1148422238063&call_pageid=968332188492

Accused in gang raids appear in court
23 out on bail in anti-gang sweep
Locked up since last week's arrests
May 24, 2006. 07:53 AM

Included on yesterday's court docket of people arrested as part of last week's anti-gang sweep targeting the Jamestown Crew is an entire family, girlfriends and their boyfriends, the employed and jobless, and at least three pregnant women.

... Project XXX is the fourth major guns and gangs crackdown by Toronto police since May 2004. The first such initiative, Project Impact, which targeted the Malvern Crew, has resulted in six convictions on the anti-gang charge of "participation in a criminal organization." A core group of accused remain before the courts.

(The case of?) Seventeen co-accused as part of Project Pathfinder, which took aim at the Galloway Boys, continues in court, while those accused in last fall's Project Flicker await preliminary hearings. Flicker targeted the Ardwick Blood Crew, the nemesis of the Jamestown Crew.

Last night, Toronto police hosted a barbecue for residents of the Jamestown Cres. area in the wake of last week's raids. They were joined by community faith leaders, local politicians and neighbourhood volunteers. ... The barbecue was followed by an open forum inside the community centre.

I know ... there just isn't enough law enforcement and there just isn't enough tackling of those root causes of crime up here.

[cmere]

18. Cooke

Earle Cooke is now serving a one-year sentence, which commenced in February 06 for a crime that was discovered in 2003. What was he doing since November 2005, when he was convicted? The details of this case are still questionable.

According to the United States Sentencing Commission http://www.ussc.gov/JUDPACK/2003/tx03.pdf the average 2003 sentence lengths for a Primary Offence Category in the state of Texas are as follows:

Fraud: 22 months
Firearms: 68.2 months
Embezzlement: 16.1 months
Tax: 19 months

Add those together with numerous counts of each offence and you get…1 year in Oklahoma? Perhaps there is some plea-bargaining in the picture? If so, who did he name and why? How long have the police surveillanced the alleged Brantford suspects? There were also no arrests made on the Six-Nations Reserve where apparently these firearms were being brought in.

Inspector Scott Easto stated to the press that the violent criminal activity in Brantford is different from the type of gang-related crime in Toronto.

“It’s not like they’re here controlling and terrorizing a neighbourhood like they do in Toronto,” Easto said. “When they’re here, it’s for a social occasion or they’re staying low and dealing drugs.

“We hear about it when something happens. A drug deal goes bad and there’s violence.” http://www.brantfordexpositor.ca/webapp/sitepages/content.asp?contentID=46008&catname=Local+News

Have these 9 Brantford people ever been involved in any of this violence?

“Altogether, more than 100 people face 1,000 charges ranging from attempted murder, firearms offences and drug trafficking to the anti-gang charge of participating in a criminal organization. Those released yesterday tended to be people connected to rather than belonging to the Rexdale street gang, also known as the Jamestown or Doomstown Crips.
They included several members of a group of Brantford residents who police allege were serving as middlemen in a gun-trafficking pipeline that distributed firearms to Jamestown Crew members. A Canadian accused of smuggling the firearms into Canada from Houston, Texas, is already serving time in the United States.” http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1148422238063&call_pageid=968332188492

In relation to the Jamestown Crew, he also stated that there is a young offender who has an address in Toronto and Brantford and moved to Brantford to escape his rival Blood gang:
Other than Cooke, no other Six Nations residents have been implicated in the illegal operation. However, nine arrests were made in nearby Brantford, where gang members have been living, said Brantford Police Insp. Scott Easto. Brantford police were involved in the raid.
"Some (newly arrived gang members) have moved here from Toronto, and have addresses here and addresses in both places (Brantford and Toronto)," Easto said.
Among those believed to have been arrested was a young offender who moved from Jamestown to Brantford, police allege, to sell cocaine and escape a deadly vendetta with the rival Ardwick Blood Crew.
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1148077815671&call_pageid=968332188492&col=968793972154

So in 2003 when Earle Cooke was signing his many names for his many illegal purchases of guns, the young offender would have been four years younger, as well as all of the other people involved. What were all of these people (“newly arrived gang members”) doing four years ago?

And finally, if the police knew about these goings ons or even suspected a potential threat to society through weapons trafficking, then why did it take them nearly 4 years to do something about it? What were the police doing all this time? How many needless tax dollars were spent in the waiting? How many families could have been spared the violent humiliation from the exercised militaryesque search and seizures?

Defence lawyer Philip Klumak said many people caught in the raids had only a tenuous relation to those charged with more serious offences.
"Some people are in the wrong place at the wrong time," Klumak said outside court. "About half will have charges withdrawn where there is no case or the case is not worth running."
http://torontosun.com/News/TorontoAndGTA/2006/05/24/1595122-sun.html

[iverglas]

19. I'm completely failing to make sense of any of that

Let's take an example.

So in 2003 when Earle Cooke was signing his many names for his many illegal purchases of guns, the young offender would have been four years younger, as well as all of the other people involved. What were all of these people (“newly arrived gang members”) doing four years ago?

What on earth is your point?

The raids conducted this month were not directly solely at gun-running activities, or even largely at gun-running activities. They were directed at the gang-related violence (and the drug trafficking it supported, and related activities, like prostitution) going on in a particular community in Toronto.

The young offender in question was presumably believed to be involved in those activities. I see no allegation that he was involved in gun-running.

The firearms in issue that were trafficked into Canada from the US were used to commit violent acts and to facilitate the organized criminal activity that the Jamestown Crew was engaged in. Not all of their activities involved trafficked firearms, and not all of them were involved in trafficking firearms.

Re: Earle Cooke --

Add those together with numerous counts of each offence and you get…1 year in Oklahoma?

Add what together? Was Cooke charged with embezzlement? If so, I've missed it.

Are Toronto police responsible for whatever sentence someone gets in Oklahoma? Are you perhaps suggesting that Cooke didn't do it? If so, why?

Perhaps there is some plea-bargaining in the picture?

Perhaps there was indeed. Since both Cdn and US law enforcement agencies are concerned about firearms trafficking from the US into Canada, I wouldn't be at all surprised. Would you?

If so, who did he name and why? How long have the police surveillanced the alleged Brantford suspects? There were also no arrests made on the Six-Nations Reserve where apparently these firearms were being brought in.

Who are you asking? Why would anyone here know the answers to these questions? Why would anyone expect that at this stage of the investigation and prosecutions the police would have disclosed the answers to any of those questions to the public?

Perhaps my initial post should have helped you:

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Law/2006/05/19/1588235-sun.html

A police source said yesterday the plan was to let the six-month long Project XXX continue a little longer, but police decided to move yesterday to prevent a recurrence of last year's gun violence as warmer weather arrives.

I have no idea whether the police discovered the connection between the Brantford gun-runners and the Jamestown crew during that surveillance, or earlier via the arrest of Earle Cooke, or whatever. I don't know why I'd expect to know that at this point.

There were also no arrests made on the Six-Nations Reserve where apparently these firearms were being brought in.

Do you live in the vicinity? Are you familiar with the demographics and socioeconomic factors? Brantford is the urban area near the Six Nations Reserve. Many members of the First Nation in question live in Brantford, and not on the Reserve. Reading between the lines and avoiding the media's avoidance of the issue, one might think that the Brantford people involved in the gun-running through the reserve belong to the Six Nations. However, it appears to be the reverse -- Jamestown Crew members were living in Brantford, and as far as I know the Jamestown Crew are largely Afro-Caribbean, not Aboriginal.

If no one residing on the Reserve was involved in the gun-running, why would you expect to see arrests of people residing on the Reserve? You noticed how the police said:

Other than Cooke, no other Six Nations residents have been implicated in the illegal operation.

? :shrug:

And finally, if the police knew about these goings ons or even suspected a potential threat to society through weapons trafficking, then why did it take them nearly 4 years to do something about it? What were the police doing all this time? How many needless tax dollars were spent in the waiting?

Obviously, they were sitting on their fat asses at Tim Horton's sucking back double-doubles and chomping on sugary treats.

But gosh, maybe they were gathering evidence and building a case that would stand up in court. Did you catch the bits about how several members of the Jamestown Crew had got away with murder already because no one would testify against them? That sort of thing makes getting convictions a little more difficult sometimes.

In fact there are quite a few unsolved murders in last year's crop in Toronto. In most cases, the problem is the refusal of witnesses to come forward. Funny how that works -- the very thing that makes it so important to put these people away, their violence and terrorizing of others, is the very thing that makes it so hard to do.

How many families could have been spared the violent humiliation from the exercised militaryesque search and seizures?

Awwww.

First we screech about them doing nothing, and then we whine about what they did. Good one.

Did you have some better proposal for how to go about apprehending a bunch of extremely violent and well-organized criminals? Did you happen to notice how the whole thing went off without the police firing a single shot?

Did you have a point, or just a bunch of really pointless questions?

[iverglas]

20. the Cooke chronology

As set out in earlier posts (quoted from various sources identified in those earlier posts).

Toronto police first stumbled across Cooke's gun-running business in 2003, when several guns he had supplied to criminals were recovered and traced back to purchases he had made while living in Texas. Police here contacted their counterparts with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

Earle Theodore Cooke, 55, was renting a house in Houston, Texas, with his American wife when he bought 32 firearms from local gun dealers between November 2002 and October 2003, and spirited them into Canada.

The ATF moved in on Oct 21, 2003, as Cooke returned to Texas from Ontario.

During his four-day trial in April 2004, the jury heard Cooke bought the 32 firearms during nine transactions from various Houston dealers, including the Father & Son Swap Shop.

In May 2004, a U.S. jury convicted Cooke on 12 counts of lying to the firearms dealers by providing false addresses when he purchased the guns in Texas.

He was convicted and sent to prison for a year in November 2005. But court documents show that he didn't begin serving his sentence until February of this year.

For whatever reason, he was either not charged with or not convicted of the gun running.

Two possible reasons spring to mind:

1. there was no evidence on which to convict him -- without cooperative witnesses, it would be pretty difficult to establish that he actually smuggled and supplied the firearms;

2. he was offered a plea to a lesser charge in exchange for information. I gather this sort of thing really is quite common in the US.

Why was he not convicted and sentenced until several months after the guilty verdict? One could hypothesize. Perhaps he was supplying information to police as part of his deal, and needed to be on the outside to do it. Perhaps one could ask someone who might actually know.

I truly do wish I knew what your point(s) might be.

[iverglas]

21. interesting, though ...

... who else is asking about the Six Nations connection ...

http://www.freedominion.ca/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=60117&
"Post subject: T.O. guns from Six Nations link?"

And from some informed source at google's Italian forums:
http://groups.google.it/group/alt.native/browse_thread/thread/afa10326b13dd78d/b390b700671a873f?hl=it#b390b700671a873f

Gang members from Toronto regularly drive to the Six Nations Reserve to obtain illegal guns provided to them by members of the Six Nations Reserve. Their previous contact, Earle Cooke, is now in a prison in the US. That hasn't stopped the Six Nations from continuing their trafficking in illegal fire-arms. The Six Nations Reserve has become a veritable grocery store for illegal guns, drugs, cigarettes and alchohol.

Eloquent, but rather lacking in actual fact.


Maybe you know about the spot of bother going on this month in relation to a Six Nations land claim, in Caledonia, hard by Brantford, and the reaction of the good burghers to the assertion of the First Nation's claim. (It involves land surrendered to the Crown back in 1841 for which the First Nation claims that it was not adequately compensated, as I understand it, and the ploughing ahead with building a suburban development on it while the claim settlement process is still underway.) Not to mention the overt racism of not a few Canadians when it comes to First Nations' land claims and ancestral rights.

[cmere]

25. Brantford and Six Nations

In an earlier post, you asked for opinions on Cooke's one-year sentence for gunrunning, but was he even convicted for the gunrunning? From the information presented in the media articles of earlier posts, it does seem that the fact that he signed his name to various addresses in Texas in order to purchase the guns would suggest an alleged fraud charge. But you are correct in saying that he was charged on 12 counts of lying to the firearms dealers by providing false addresses when he purchased the guns in Texas. These were the charges listed, but I still wonder if they were the only charges or allegations. If the police knew that he was also selling these guns in Canada and the US (US was mentioned in an article I read as well), then to me, this suggests a trafficking charge, and would indeed depend on evidence to support it. It was also mentioned that Cooke and his wife were said to not have a job or be paying taxes.

My points? Well, I am trying to dig deeper than the media is presenting. I cannot assume anything at this moment, however am curious as to the Cooke link, and was surprised by his one-year Oklahoma sentence.

The Brantford people have been listed as the gun-runners, however, since he was caught in 2003, there is a possibility that the 'newly arrived gang members' of Brantford, as Insp. Scott Easto put it were not involved with Cooke three years ago. Yes, the business may have continued through the Six Nations reserve, but what did it have to do with Cooke? As mentioned in the Toronto Star, Jamestown Crew gang members were driving to a Six Nations reserve near Brantford, about 100 kilometres southwest of Toronto, and buying guns from Earle Cooke. If the investigation was for less than 6 months and Cooke was already convicted, then how would they be buying guns from HIM from the reserve?

This article states that there weren’t many guns or drugs seized from the Brantford people:
http://www.brantfordexpositor.ca/webapp/sitepages/content.asp?contentid=49767&catname=Local+News&classif=News+%2D+Local

A Publication Ban will likely prevent us from getting all of the details, but there is a lot to this story worth thinking about.

30 of the arrested people have been released on bail so far. As well, Toronto police state that a rap video was a starting point for the investigation.
http://www.torontosun.com/News/TorontoAndGTA/2006/05/26/1598707-sun.html

[iverglas]

26. I believe ...

In an earlier post, you asked for opinions on Cooke's one-year sentence for gunrunning, but was he even convicted for the gunrunning?

... that you may have confused me with yourself. I hadn't paid much attention to Cooke's sentence at all, and as far as I recall my only comments on it were in response to your own questions.

... but was he even convicted for the gunrunning?

No, as far as I know. The media reports say he was convicted of lying on his firearms forms. Again, one could hypothesize. One might wonder whether the Canadian authorities didn't want it known that his involvement in gun-running had come to light -- particularly if, as I baselessly speculated earlier, he was being used to gather intelligence between the date of the guilty verdict and the date of the sentence. I really have no idea, do I?

If the investigation was for less than 6 months and Cooke was already convicted, then how would they be buying guns from HIM from the reserve?

Again as I recall, there was no indication that they were continuing to buy firearms from anyone at Six Nations after Cooke was caught.

As well, Toronto police state that a rap video was a starting point for the investigation.

Actually, I think it's fairly clear from that article that the video was used for the purpose of identifying individuals. Even the article (which is the Sun speaking, not the police) says that it was used "as a starting point for the recent roundup of 106 suspected gang members and their associates", not that it was the starting point "for the investigation".

I'm about to look for an article in today's Star print edition to post separately; perhaps that will help some.

[iverglas]

27. "Silver Bullet Against Gangs?"

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1148681733596&call_pageid=968332188492

This is an article worth reading (my emphases).

The next stage for these high-profile gang projects — there have been four in Toronto since 2004 — is the judicial process, turning them into test cases for the federal government's anti-gang legislation to help determine whether it's the right tool for combating street gangs.

... "When it was utilized in Malvern, violent crime dropped off the face of the earth," Getty said yesterday referring to the Scarborough community that had been plagued by gang violence until Project Impact and Project Pathfinder took out the warring Malvern Crew and Galloway Boys in 2004. When peace is restored, a community is more prepared to work with police to prevent a resurgence of gang activity, he added.

Traditional policing approaches — targeting an individual for an individual crime — won't get at the problem, Getty said. "If one person is charged with one count of trafficking marijuana on face value, it may or may not be perceived as a serious offence." But the perspective of the court may change when you can "put it into the totality that the person may be trafficking small amounts of marijuana to generate funds for the purchase of firearms to maintain criminal control over that area."

The Crown must establish that the gang members are more than a loose confederation of violent criminals but part of an established organization with structure, hierarchy and leadership. It must also prove members are working in concert for the material benefit of the gang.

That's the thing, as I was saying yesterday: it's damned hard to target those "root causes" of crime when a community is living in terror. Get the guns and people who use them out, and use the window of opportunity to develop tools for the community to use to address its problems and prevent the people affected by them -- especially the kids, of course -- from seeing violent crime as an attractive career.

The explanation of the nature of the law being used and the kind of evidence that must be provided, in order to avoid 100 people getting sentences of probation for minor crimes when what they were really doing was operating an organization based on violent control of an entire urban community, may help to explain the lengthy surveillance. It may also explain why little specific information is being released about the investigation just yet, since it is obviously still going on (e.g. by obtaining evidence from people now facing charges to use against others charged).

[57_TomCat]

29. Guns allow the imposition of force.

This force when used for illegal means is bad. The gangs are bad and they are intent on using force to impose their will on the community. Guns help with the imposition of force. Illegal gangs tend to use illegal weapons and guns. That is their nature. Simply removing the guns does not change the nature of the gangs. In fact it motivates them to more violence since they know their victims are even less armed than they. Remember the gangs use illegal arms.

England has always had a very limited amounts of gun violence. There are many reasons for this and I could defend a gun control argument if necessary. Only one problem. Home office has reported the small amount of gun violence has increased dramaticly after the broad laws prohibiting handguns and other weapons in 1998. Seems those pesky criminals and gang members have not followed the law. Amazing eh what!

A quote from this article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/3761626.stm

"Shadow Home Secretary David Davis said the government had let gun crime get out of hand.

"No amount of government spin will hide the fact that violent crime is out of control," he said. "We now have record levels of gun crime, rocketing sex offences, a further 14% increase in violent crime and overall crime is nearly 750,000 higher than 1998."

...

She said: "We urgently need more trained armed police officers throughout England and Wales to tackle the growing menace of gun crime, otherwise lives will increasingly be put at risk.""


Wait, wait, wait!!! I thought all that gun crime was to dry up since the good people were prohibited from having them!

[57_TomCat]

30. And I might add...

that the article above seems to imply that the best way to stop gun violence is with more guns. They seem to think more armed police are necessary in this endeavor. More guns, less crime... where have I heard this before?

Of course we can't have the public armed. My god what craziness that would be eh? All those people with guns would just cause the gun crime rate to go up right. Oh wait...it went up when we took the guns away. Let me get back to you on that! :)