Turkey's EU bid 'may take decade'

[Darranar]

Negotiations enabling Turkey to join the European Union would take at least a decade, according to two reports obtained by the BBC.

The EU documents reveal that the country has made significant progress on human rights.

They also show the cost of Turkey's EU's membership to be as much as that of the 10 mostly former communist countries that joined the EU this year.

A positive decision on membership talks is expected next week.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3709110.stm

[EnfantTerrible]

1. What passes for "significant progress" I wonder?

I guess the old opening-a-new-business saw applies to joining the EU as well... Location. Location. Location.

[aneerkoinos]

2. Huh?

The European Commission actually has very dedicated and professionall staff who do together with European Parliament a serious job on closely monitoring the progress of Turkey to meet the Copenhagen criteria. The new report is not out yet, but you can find the previous ones here: http://europa.eu.int/comm/enlargement/turkey/

Read and judge it for yourself.

[EnfantTerrible]

3. Again I ask

What passes for "significant progress"?

Up to 50% of Turkish women are victims of family violence:

http://www.amnestyusa.org/countries/turkey/document.do?id=0732A83F1C4824CF80256E9A0042112B

Torture continues:

"Important legal reform packages (known as the "harmonization laws") relating to human rights protection and aimed at meeting the criteria for accession to the European Union continued to be introduced by the Justice and Development Party (AKP) government. Implementation of the reforms was uneven and it was too early to gauge significant progress on human rights as a result of the legislation. Reports of torture and ill-treatment in police detention and disproportionate use of force against demonstrators continued to be matters of grave concern, although the use of some torture methods appeared to diminish. Those who attempted to exercise their right to demonstrate peacefully or express dissent on some issues continued to face criminal prosecution."

From the Amnesty International 2004 annual report on Turkey
http://www.amnestyusa.org/countries/turkey/document.do?id=348B6408954EBA3E80256E9E005A9970

(Brussels, September 22, 2004)—Inadequate supervision of police officers allows torture and ill-treatment to continue in Turkey despite the country’s introduction of comprehensive legal safeguards, Human Rights Watch said today in a briefing paper.

http://www.hrw.org/english/docs/2004/09/22/turkey9366.htm
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While they have made progress it's still a long way from good, IMO. "Significant" is a very relative term.

[aneerkoinos]

4. Rome in a day?

The progress on legislative level is significant by all measures. The Commission reports agree that the implementation is "uneven", to put it kindly. Attitudes and old habits die slowly. But they don't die without legislative, educative and other positive efforts. E.g. family violence is problem that exists everywhere and especially in macho cultures, not only Turkey, and it takes generations to get rid of it.

It would be interesting to see if there are studies what kind of progress there is on attitudes of ordinary Turks, especially the younger generations, and what, if any changes are made in content of school curriculum, which has central role in molding attitudes and awareness.

I would say that Turkey's main problem is chauvinist nationalism in form of Kemalism, widespread in power establisment and other srata of the society, but in that respect Turkey is not different from Spain and Greece shortly before they joined EC. It is of historical irony that in Turkey moderate islamic forces have proven most effective in challenging the suppressive secularism of Kemalism, and by that way also worst manifestations of chauvinist nationalism. Simply put, Islam, together with EU, is bringing Turkey from fascism to modernity.

And yes, everything is relative.

[EnfantTerrible]

5. Thank you for your thoughtful response

I admit to being suspicious of any overtures made to Turkey for the simple reason that the US so willingly got into bed with them, despite Turkey's horrific record of human rights violations, turning a blind eye to the atrocities in favor of the strategic location of the country. I suppose my animous is being directed at the wrong party, though not entirely. I do acknowledge the advances being made there, but I worry about Turkey being held to a lower standard and rewarded for reforms that would, if it were a western coutry, be deemed inadequate at best. I, however, am not a diplomat or politician and can safely and easily pursue idealism instead of compromise.

You have given me pause in regard to my ideas about Turkey and their embracement by the west. I sincerely hope that it doesn't take as long as a decade for them to make the changes required for admittance into the EU. I will maintain a cautious optomism now, as opposed to a resolute suspiscion, in regard to Turkey's journey from fascism to modernity.

Best,
Q

[aneerkoinos]

6. Latest developments

The Commission report will be even more critical about the implementation level that thought, so Turkey being at lower standard at least by Commission seems to be groundless fear.

The decision to start negotiations lies with Counsil, governements of memberstates. IMO they should show green light. Erdogan has achieved more in two years than previous governements in 20, and I saw yesterday BBC document where a Turkish intellectual said that situation had greatly changed, he and his colleaques were no more afraid of being persecuted for publicly expressing their thought, as was the case still few years ago. The atmosphere has changed for the better. Most importanty it's extremely important to keep up the positive momentum with also positive feedback, rejection of negotiations would be dangerous slap in the face against especially all those Turkish people who put their hope in EU, modernizers and ethnic and religious minorities.

How long will the actual negotiations take is anybodys guess, and it is not even given what their outcome is. I hope for rapid development, but realistic expectation is 10 years.