Ford Unveils Hybrid E85 (Escape, concept)

[skids]

Ford Motor Company recently unveiled the Ford Escape Hybrid E85 at the Washington Auto Show. The Escape Hybrid E85, a research vehicle that features both hybrid electric power and flexible-fuel capability, is the world's first hybrid vehicle capable of operating on blends of fuel containing as much as 85 percent ethanol.

Ford has two full hybrid electric vehicle models on the road today -- the Ford Escape Hybrid and the Mercury Mariner Hybrid -- and will increase production capacity to 250,000 hybrid vehicles a year by the end of the decade. The company will produce up to 250,000 ethanol-capable vehicles this year, including the Ford F-150 pickup truck, as well as the Ford Crown Victoria, Mercury Grand Marquis and Lincoln Town Car. The world's first hybrid SUV, the Ford Escape Hybrid, was introduced in 2004.

http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=42388

[chelsea0011]

1. Who will be left to build them?

[CountAllVotes]

2. China can do the job

China already makes a lot of things/parts for FORDs. I never like FORDs myself so I have no sympathy for them. :nopity:

Henry Ford was a real SOB I've been told by the few still living that remember him.

So, :nopity: and I'm sure this will be another Found On the Road Dead and/or Fix Or Repair Daily.

:kick:

[megatherium]

8. Backwards: Driver Returned On Foot.

From the American automobile company that thinks it's a good idea to compete against the American-assembled Camry and Accord with their Mexican-assembled Fusion.

[CountAllVotes]

9. eh! lol!

Thanks for the laugh! I needed it, believe ME!!! :loveya: for it and I love FORD jokes too! :D :D :D

:kick:

[Lefty48197]

16. Trust me. There are a whole lot of people in Detroit ready to build these

Hopefully, some people will see past their prejudices against Ford and American manufacturers in general, and give a long look at all the new hybrid vehicles Ford is coming out with.

[phantom power]

3. Time mag had an interview with Bill Ford this week.

I liked some of what he had to say, but the one thing that stuck out was this (not from the interview, but a companion article):

At Ford, the roadmap looks like this: assemble a squad of ace designers. Put the engineers, bean counters and marketeers in the backseat. Wait for the artists to produce gorgeous metal and interiors. Then pray the company can execute.

Thus proving that even now, they haven't learned a damned thing, and they're doomed just like GM.

[hatrack]

4. Did they mention E85 being about 25% less efficient than gasoline?

Didn't think so . . .

[rfkrfk]

6. define 'efficiency"

did you really mean energy content by volume?

energy content varies with different fuels

[hatrack]

7. Yes, content by volume

nt

[JohnWxy]

11. FFV if optimized to take advantage of ethanols higher octane gets mileage

as good as gasoline powered cars.. Ethanol has an octane rating of 105, while premium grade gasoline is 92 -93. Ethanol can be run at higher compression ratios than gasoline yielding higher performance resulting in just as good as mileage as running on gasoline at lower compression ratios.

But lets consider FFV vehicles without taking advantage of the higher octane of ethanol - they get 15% - 25% less mileage. So what does ethanol 85 sell for - about $2.06 per gallon compared to $2.35-$2.55 a gallon for mid and premium grade ($2.55) on average. So being that much cheaper even if it gets lower miles per gallon it balances out.

NOw, if American manufacturers wanted to optimize for ethanol's higher octane as does Saab (Saab 9-5 BioPower: Alternative Fuel with Performance Benefits) they can use variable valve timing andor turbo-charging or super-charging to effectively raise the compression ratio and the performance of the engine. All these can be computer controlled to lower compression ratio when operating on pure gas or ethanol 15 so you can use regular pump gas (92-93 octane).

What's interesting about Saab's 9-5 BioPower concept is that it offsets this disadvantage by providing more power. E85 has a 104 octane rating, compared to the usual 91 or 92 rating for premium gas. Without getting too technical, this higher octane allowed Saab engineers to add more boost to the 9-5's turbocharged 4-cylinder engine. The result is 310 hp instead of the usual 260.

Saab is currently selling a production 9-5 Bio -power that is turbocharged and gets 260 horsepower from E85 and delivers comparable mileage to gasoline powered cars. It's all a matter if you want to provide the extra horsepower E85 allows (if you turbo charging or use variable valve timing to take advantage of the higher octane of E85).

See??

[JohnWxy]

12. FFV vehicles if optiimized for higher octane of E85 get mileage just

as good as gasoline powered cars.. Ethanol has an octane rating of 105, while premium grade gasoline is 92 -93. Ethanol can be run at higher compression ratios than gasoline yielding higher performance resulting in just as good as mileage as running on gasoline at lower compression ratios.

But lets consider FFV vehicles without taking advantage of the higher octane of ethanol - they get 15% - 25% less mileage. So what does ethanol 85 sell for - about $2.06 per gallon compared to $2.35-$2.55 a gallon for mid and premium grade ($2.55) on average. So being that much cheaper even if it gets lower miles per gallon it balances out.

NOw, if American manufacturers wanted to optimize for ethanol's higher octane as does Saab (Saab 9-5 BioPower: Alternative Fuel with Performance Benefits) they can use variable valve timing andor turbo-charging or super-charging to effectively raise the compression ratio and the performance of the engine. All these can be computer controlled to lower compression ratio when operating on pure gas or ethanol 15 so you can use regular pump gas (92-93 octane).

What's interesting about Saab's 9-5 BioPower concept is that it offsets this disadvantage by providing more power. E85 has a 104 octane rating, compared to the usual 91 or 92 rating for premium gas. Without getting too technical, this higher octane allowed Saab engineers to add more boost to the 9-5's turbocharged 4-cylinder engine. The result is 310 hp instead of the usual 260.

Saab is currently selling a production 9-5 Bio -power that is turbocharged and gets 260 horsepower from E85 and delivers comparable mileage to gasoline powered cars. It's all a matter if you want to provide the extra horsepower E85 allows (if you turbo charging or use variable valve timing to take advantage of the higher octane of E85).

See??

[JohnWxy]

14. E85 currently sells for about $2.10 vs about $2.35 for Mid and $2.55 for

Premium gas, so I guess it just about balances out. Also, if american FFV were optimized for the higher octane E85 you would get the samae or better mileage with the FFV on E85

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=115x39933#40234


Axxis petroleum repoerts E85 selling for $2.10 a gallon. Ethanol price per gallon

[umass1993]

5. I don't think we need a concept car...

I think we need a concept civilization.

[hatrack]

10. I was going to say: "Look, a shiny prototype on an auto show pedestal!"

Combine that with the whopping 400-odd total stations nationwide where one can actually buy E85 and we're well on our way to energy independence!

:eyes:

If the gasoline retailing sector has succeeded in installing this many E85 pumps, how long do you think they're going to take to install even an approximate number of hydrogen fueling stations? Please note that this sector will be dealing with a fuel which will require massive compression and/or refrigeration, along with completely different safety standards both for retail fueling and restocking from wholesalers.

Oh, and then there's the capital investment required for such an effort.

[JohnWxy]

15. Inquiry requested into corporations restricting access to biofuels

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=115x40253

Ethanol currently supplies about 2% of the fuel supply for cars and trucks - I don't know how much the very expensive hybrid vehicles are saving in gas but considering how many have been sold and how much they actually reduce gasoline consumption (10- 15% in 'real life'?) What would you say their contribution to energy independence is, about 1/100,000 as much?


IF energy independence, of any degree is worth anything, ethanol is worth pursuing. Think in terms of oil supply disruption. If we would commit to it, we could boost ethanol production considerably in a few years. If we get it up to 5% of the gasoline supply that would provide some protection from oil supply disruptions at least up to a 5% or a bit more. That's important.

In a little longer time-frame ethanol could supply 20% of fuel demand. And that's money NOT going out of the country but staying here.

keep in mind too, that any car can burn E15 that alone reduces gasoline consumption, for that car, by 15%. And the FFV vehicles which can burn E85 DON'T COST A DIME MORE TO BUY - unlike the very expensive hybrid vehicles. Hybrid technology should still be pursued too, but ethanol is a valuable technology not being exploited- that's not doing any of us any good.

[Lefty48197]

17. Wise words:

"IF energy independence, of any degree is worth anything, ethanol is worth pursuing. Think in terms of oil supply disruption. If we would commit to it, we could boost ethanol production considerably in a few years. If we get it up to 5% of the gasoline supply that would provide some protection from oil supply disruptions at least up to a 5% or a bit more. That's important.

In a little longer time-frame ethanol could supply 20% of fuel demand. And that's money NOT going out of the country but staying here."

I'm not sure why some are arguing against such a wonderful alternative to gasoline.

[JohnWxy]

13. Saab is selling a turbo charged FFV that gets just as good mileage as

gasoline powered car. It's just a matter of optimizing for the higher octane in E85

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=115x40236


keep in mind an ethanol powered car running on E85 is cutting gasoline consumption by 85%.

ANY car that uses gasoline can use E15 (15% ethanol) and would be cutting gasoline consumption
by 15%.

Of course, if you combine ethanol WITH Hybrid technology you get , what about 10 - 15% reduction in gas consumption for the hybrid (using real world numbers) plus, 15% reduction if you use E15 yielding a 28% reduction in gsaasoline consumption!

Now if you put a FFV engine in the Hybrid you would get 15% reduction for hybrid technology and 85% rreduction from the E85 usage , yielding an 87.25% reduction in gasoline consumption.