I want one...

[SHRED]

If the car is recharged with renewable electricity, CO2 emissions could be almost zero in the well-to-wheel perspective.
Top speed with a fully charged battery pack is about 130 km/h (81 mph). Acceleration from 0 to 60 mph takes less than 11 seconds. The car's range is up to 150 km (94 miles). This covers the daily transport needs of more than 90 percent of all motorists in Europe.

http://green.autoblog.com/2009/12/17/detroit-2010-preview-volvo-c30-ev-evolves-for-road-trials/

[TxRider]

1. Only worries

Are how much will it cost, and how long do the battery packs last and how much do they cost to replace.

[SHRED]

2. They need to be...

...made from hemp and other green-bio sources for the body and interior.

Have recyclable/reusable battery packs.
And be affordable.

And then I woke up from the dream.

:crazy:

----

[kestrel91316]

11. Hemp fiber upholstery.........hemp-based "plastics".........I could go for that.

[SHRED]

32. and hemp-based body panels

[endless october]

3. i would love one of these.

however, our power grid would not.

we need a national program to put people to work building power plants. you hate brownouts now; just wait until these things catch on.

[TxRider]

4. It could not be my only car

Not enough range.

I would need second vehicle to travel distances. Not optimal IMO.

I think the power grid issue could be dealt with fairly easily. We already have a thing with my electric company where they remotely play with your energy usage. A "smart" charger system internet connected to the power company, or on a timer could allow them to balance out charging at night when everyone got home and plugged them in at the same time.

I have wondered why not just add a small generator on biodiesel to an electric car. Shouldn't take more than a small engine the size of a lawn mower engine. Simple hybrid, no overly complex drive system, just a little internal combustion battery charger on renewable fuel, and running at a constant RPM could very efficient.

A car only needs about 10hp to go down the road, the only reason we use more is for acceleration or going uphill. As long as the little generator put out enough to get down a level road plus a little more the range should be unlimited on the highway.

I plan to test this myself at some point, on a 4cyl diesel truck I am building. attaching an electric motor and control system, and a small generator to see just how many miles I can squeeze out of a gallon of biofuel.

Then there is the issue of battery replacement, you can only recharge a battery so many times. Which is why people are experimenting with super capacitors, as they can be charged almost unlimited times.

[endless october]

5. interesting.

i'm a fan of biodiesel. once you test that truck, let me know how it turns out.

[muriel_volestrangler]

6. Estimates seem to vary, but your 10hp seems optimistic for highway speeds

eg this:

Cylinder deactivation works because only a small fraction of an engine's peak horsepower is needed to maintain cruising speed. Passenger cars require 25 or so horsepower to cruise at 60 mph while 35 horsepower is enough to drive a large SUV at that speed.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3012/is_5_184/ai_n6077801/

or this, which claims 'about 20'.

There's a calculator here, that you may find useful if you do build something. It suggests some typical values, and Wikipedia gives more. A fairly typical result for a modern small car seems to be about 10hp for 55mph, but more like 20hp for 70mph. It depends on the speed you want on the highway, then.

Remember that if the engine just generates power to keep the battery charged (which if you want to run it at a constant efficient speed it would need to, rather than directly driving some wheels), there will be loses in the generator/charging system, probably more than in a mechanical transmission.

[TxRider]

18. Could be 30

But you should still get better efficiency generating with a 30hp constant speed, than a 300hp variable speed gasoline engine.

You can gain 30% just going from gasoline to diesel generation.

My max cruise speed will be 60-65, with an engine max RPM of about 2000, aiming for 1900.

I've rebuilt this truck from the ground up, it's actually a 1953 truck, converted it to 4 wheel disk brake, rebuilt all moving and rubber parts from axles and differentials on up, and I'm working at welding up the frame mounts for the 4cyl turbo diesel now.

I have to get the diesel in and debugged and tuned, the truck back to daily driving capability, then I'll start looking seriously at adding electric to it depending on how things go.

[bergie321]

7. Isn't that

How the Chevy Volt works? Except with conventional gas instead of bio-diesel of course. Let us know how your truck project goes.

[Ready4Change]

12. Yep.

IMO, that's the way to go with EV's. Give it enough pure EV range for most daily commutes, and provide a fuel driven generator for longer range trips.

Ideally, in my mind, that generator pack should be somewhat modular. Engine, generator and fuel tank all together. That way, if one fuel get's passed up for another, you can replace your generator pack, rather than your entire vehicle. I don't think Chevy is planning for that. Pity, as I think that flexibility could be a strong selling point in the future. Heck, if you don't drive long distances you could save money buy not buying the generator pack in the first place and have more carrying space, and/or they could provide a range extending battery pack for that space. Lot's of potential there, IF they would plan for it.

[TxRider]

15. Modular is good.

[kristopher]

17. Nissan is preparing to market all electric w/ 100 mile range. nt

[TxRider]

23. My family live 250+ miles away

The rest 350+

Electric only cars will be fine for some folks.

I would need a second car or have to go rent a car to go see the family. Which isn't such a bad idea really.

[tinrobot]

35. Might be nice to include free rentals with the price of an EV

Your situation is similar to many. An EV is great for most days, but there's those rare days when you have to drive distance.

This article has an interesting solution, just roll the price of a rental car into the financing of an EV. That way, you can use the EV for daily driving and have an easily accessible gas car for distances without having to garage it or maintain it.

http://www.allcarselectric.com/blog/1040338_ev-owners-to-receive-gasoline-vehicle-rental-coupons-for-long-trips-interesting-solution-to-range-anxiety

[kristopher]

8. There is a market for them

I agree it isn't a car that can meet all the needs of your average driver, but the same can be said of sedans, coupes or pick up trucks.

Your comments on series hybrids* suggests a significant lack of information on part. It is the preferred configuration emerging among all the automakers. Series hybrid vehicles are electric drive only and the engine runs (at a constant speed to increase its efficiency) to power a generator only when you exceed the range of the battery's charge.

You knowledge of current battery technology seems to be equally lacking. You should do some research before you make conclusions.


*google series hybrid and parallel hybrid

[Nederland]

10. Why do you do this?

Instead of writing what you did, you could just have easily written this:

I agree it isn't a car that can meet all the needs of your average driver, but the same can be said of sedans, coupes or pick up trucks.

Series hybrid vehicles are electric drive only and the engine runs (at a constant speed to increase its efficiency) to power a generator only when you exceed the range of the battery's charge. It is the preferred configuration emerging among all the automakers. Try googling series hybrid and parallel hybrid and you'll see.

See? A nice polite response that says exactly the same thing without the insults. I know that I'm not one to talk because I include unnecessary insults from time to time too, but you seem to do it every post. Why?

[kristopher]

16. What was impolite?

"You (sic) knowledge of current battery technology seems to be equally lacking. You should do some research before you make conclusions."

Since when is plainly stating facts an impolite act?

TX has shown in several areas that he/she is more than willing to make false and misleading statements regarding the move to a noncarbon economy. Under the circumstances, simply pointing out that his/her conclusions are premature seems very charitable.

[TxRider]

24. Aside the fact

That you are not usually stating facts, but only your opinion.

I plainly stated a fact, you can only charge a battery so many times. Unless you have proof of battery that can be recharged infinite times...

You however stated a pure opinion, that my knowledge was lacking.

But then, your easily too dim to realize that.

[TxRider]

21. Who knows, I have a better question though.

I would love to see the proof for the conclusion that a series hybrid is "the preferred configuration emerging among all the automakers."

Show me these statements from "all" the auto manufacturers, I haven't seen them.

[TxRider]

19. Sure there is, lots of people have two vehicles

I currently have 5.

"Your comments on series hybrids* suggests a significant lack of information on part. It is the preferred configuration emerging among all the automakers. Series hybrid vehicles are electric drive only and the engine runs (at a constant speed to increase its efficiency) to power a generator only when you exceed the range of the battery's charge."

Your comments as usual show you to simply be assuming things about people that are totally off base and jumping to conclusions there Kreskin.

"You knowledge of current battery technology seems to be equally lacking. You should do some research before you make conclusions."

Conclusion? That batteries have limited charge cycles? ROFL....

Ok Kreskin, show me a battery with unlimited recharge cycles.

You could quit being such an ignorant kneejerking arse as well, but finding a battery with infinite charge cycles might be easier.

[kristopher]

20. It doesn't take Kreskin, just the ability to read.

Since you had no knowledge of the fact that the series hybrids exist and are already emerging as the preferred near term drive platform for electric drive, it is self evident that you are not knowledgeable on the topic generally.

And since state of the art batteries for EV application are delivering on the order of 10,000+ recharge cycles, your claim in that regard just reinforced the point of your lack of knowledge.

[TxRider]

22. Really

I didn't say I have no knowledge of series hybrids.

Hell locomotives have used this technology for 60+ years. I just said I wondered why we haven't seen em.

So now you show me where I can go down and buy myself a series hybrid off the dealer lot this afternoon will ya?

Next you can show me statements from -all- car manufacturers stating this is their preferred configuration for hybrid cars.

I said battery recharge cycles are not unlimited. 10,000+ is not unlimited Kreskin.

Again your totally full of crap, on each and every point, and just being an arse.

[kristopher]

25. "You didn't say..."

No, you didn't. You demonstrated it. You are arguing a strawman.

Your remark on batteries was, "Then there is the issue of battery replacement, you can only recharge a battery so many times."

That directly implies that the number of cycles a battery can deliver is unsatisfactory and is a constraint on deploying the vehicles. It isn't. Your most recent post moving to "unlimited" vs 10,000 cycles (more than 27 years with daily charging) is another strawman.

In other words, "Again your (sic) totally full of crap, on each and every point, and just being an arse."

[TxRider]

26. It's just a fact

I specifically said I wondered why there were no biodiesel powered series hybrids.

"I have wondered why not just add a small generator on biodiesel to an electric car"

It implies no more than it says. Is there a series hybrid on the market? Does a volt run on biodiesel? Is there another series hybrid announced for production that does?

I stated "Then there is the issue of battery replacement, you can only recharge a battery so many times". It's a plain simple fact. Especially for batteries easily and cheaply available to a home EV builder like me.

Now seriously, I know it might burst your weak brain to ponder this, but why would I imply battery tech wasn't good enough for deployment of a series hybrid, right after saying I was going to deploy my own home built one... Use logic much?

It implies nothing more than it says. Well except to clairvoyant Kreskins who peer through their polished turds and see something else.



You on the other hand, have interested me greatly in this "It is the preferred configuration emerging among all the automakers."

Back up your BS there Kreskin, show me all those series hybrid cars announced for production. Enlighten me with your all knowing wisdom Kreskin.

Maybe I won't have to make my own to get a biodiesel series hybrid after all, show me who's going to make one for me Kreskin.

[kristopher]

28. It's just a fact

It's just a fact that you clearly didn't know of the existence of series hybrids, and that you don't know what you are talking about regarding the batteries.

Your words:

I have wondered why not just add a small generator on biodiesel to an electric car. Shouldn't take more than a small engine the size of a lawn mower engine. Simple hybrid, no overly complex drive system, just a little internal combustion battery charger on renewable fuel, and running at a constant RPM could very efficient.

A car only needs about 10hp to go down the road, the only reason we use more is for acceleration or going uphill. As long as the little generator put out enough to get down a level road plus a little more the range should be unlimited on the highway.

I plan to test this myself at some point, on a 4cyl diesel truck I am building. attaching an electric motor and control system, and a small generator to see just how many miles I can squeeze out of a gallon of biofuel.

Then there is the issue of battery replacement, you can only recharge a battery so many times. Which is why people are experimenting with super capacitors, as they can be charged almost unlimited times.

Trying to shift the emphasis to biodiesel is another attempt to prevaricate.

[TxRider]

29. ROFL

My original post emphasized bio-diesel Kreskin, can you read?. In fact it was -exclusively- about bio diesel hybrid, never mentioning any other fuel.

Has -any- manufacturer announced contemplations of making a biodiesel series hybrid? I wonder why not and have for years. Seems like a perfect marriage to me.

How can someone NOT know about a series hybrid with the volt being splashed around the media for the last year so heavily. With even the brain dead media talking about the differences.

Especially a person who has invested about $10,000 and a year of work in doing a rebuild and diesel conversion for biodiesel, with plans to work toward an electric hybrid himself?


I have to make a battery selection for that do I not? Batteries have cycle limits do they not? Is that not an "issue" for someone wanting to build their own EV in their garage?

Just how stupid can you possibly be? You continue to raise your stupidity to new levels with every post.


And again... Back up your statement about series hybrids that "It is the preferred configuration emerging among all the automakers". Seriously... Maybe I haven't seen that and as someone building my own I am very interested. Or is it just more inane BS spewing...


You know, you would do a lot better to ASK what someone thinks or knows, instead of insisting you KNOW what someone thinks. Just a clue for a clueless dolt.

[Nederland]

30. Response

I cannot claim to know for sure that the series bybrid concept is the preferred configuration emerging among all automakers, but I would not at all be surprised if it were. The reason has to do with weight and battery improvements. As you yourself have noted, an engine (either gasoline or diesel) can be made very effificent and produce very little pollution if it is designed specifically to run at a fixed rpm attached to a generator. What that means is that, in the long run, that is exactly the configuration solutions will evolve toward.

The natural question ask then is "Why don't existing hybrids work this way?" The reason has to do with the types of batteries that existed when hybrids were first introduced. When designing a hybrid, you start with a choice: is your primary source of energy going to come from an electric motor or from an ICE? When the first hybrids came out, Lithium-ion batteries were no quite ready yet, and so manufactures were stuck with NiMH, which do not have nearly the same power density. A car where most of the energy to move the wheels came from an electic motor would require a battery pack that was far too large and far too heavy.

Lithium-ion batteries change that equation and enables the most efficient arrangement--a series hybrid--to be possible.

[TxRider]

31. One would certainly think

Lithium ion batteries are only now getting to a place they can really commercially be used for an EV, and that is definitely the future as they are now coming into their own. I'm hoping they will end up available in a larger industry standardized cell size/format appropriate for use in an EV with newer anode/cathode technologies sooner rather than later.

But I am not convinced there isn't savings to be made with a NIMH battery using a series hybrid approach as long as the generation provides sufficient power to keep them charged. You could power a car completely with a bio-diesel engine and a generator/electric motor, as locomotives and ships do, any battery storage at all would add efficiency if used in the right part of the power spectrum by allowing for a smaller more efficient generator.

The more battery storage added the more you can decrease the size of the generator to a point somewhere a bit above normal cruise demand.

At any rate, there is no bio-diesel truck using series hybrid drive on the horizon, so I will be trying to make my own, scavenging any new or old tech that comes along and is available to me in the process.

[kristopher]

33. .

you clearly didn't know of the existence of series hybrids, and that you don't know what you are talking about regarding the batteries.

Your words:

I have wondered why not just add a small generator on biodiesel to an electric car. Shouldn't take more than a small engine the size of a lawn mower engine. Simple hybrid, no overly complex drive system, just a little internal combustion battery charger on renewable fuel, and running at a constant RPM could very efficient.

A car only needs about 10hp to go down the road, the only reason we use more is for acceleration or going uphill. As long as the little generator put out enough to get down a level road plus a little more the range should be unlimited on the highway.

I plan to test this myself at some point, on a 4cyl diesel truck I am building. attaching an electric motor and control system, and a small generator to see just how many miles I can squeeze out of a gallon of biofuel.

Then there is the issue of battery replacement, you can only recharge a battery so many times. Which is why people are experimenting with super capacitors, as they can be charged almost unlimited times.

Trying to shift the emphasis to biodiesel is another attempt to prevaricate.

[TxRider]

34. ROFL

Says the village idiot who makes BS claims about series hybrids that "It is the preferred configuration emerging among all the automakers."

And claims batteries have unlimited recharge cycles.

Talk about a dim bulb.

[Nederland]

9. People have talked about generator trailers

Or may even roof mounted generators. In either case, they would be small generators like you are talking about that you would only attach when going on a long trip. Keeping it separate from the main vehicle means you wouldn't be lugging around all that extra weight for the 90% of the time you don't need it.

[Ready4Change]

13. I first saw that idea used for the T-Zero.

Wiki linky
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_Propulsion_tzero

To me it's brilliant. The car itself was very similar to what is now the Tesla Roadster in many ways. Think of that, then add the option of a small trailer with a Honda generator on it, to hook up and power the car for long road trips. Beautiful idea.

[TxRider]

14. Good idea Hadn't thought of that.

[Fumesucker]

37. Lotus has a 1.2 liter 3 cylinder engine specifically for a range extender..

http://www.allcarselectric.com/blog/1035058_lotus-to-unveil-1-2-liter-range-extender-for-series-hybrids-at-frankfurt-motor-show

[TxRider]

39. Hopefully they will get some interest

And find a few car manufacturers to buy in and it will actually see production.

Personally I would rather see a diesel version as diesel is quite a bit more efficient and open to more alternative fuels.

[Greyskye]

36. Most charging would take place at night, when the grid is underutilized.

That unused energy is simply wasted right now.

IMHO, lack of infrastructure maintenance is a more likely root cause of future brownouts then a glut of electric cars will be.

[TxRider]

38. I was just hearing

In my mind the sound of millions of electric cars being all plugged in at about 5:30-6:30pm when everyone gets home from work and everyone plugs the car in before going in the house right at peak demand time which is from about 3pm to 7pm.

The real low power demand time is after about 10pm to about 6am.

Lots of ideas how to deal with it, with different pros and cons.

The government(DOE) seems to be pushing smart grid, with variable pricing, where the electricity prices go up significantly with demand during the day, encouraging people to use less in peak times when the price is highest in an attempt to match demand to the supply, rather than the current practice of matching supply to demand and controlling home appliances remotely.

My power company is already pushing hard for it's customers to hook up to their system with a digital meter and remotely controlled thermostats over the network so the power company can remotely adjust my AC thermostat. It's just the start.

[jgraz]

27. Dammit! And I just bought a C30!

NOW they come out with the clean one!! :grr:

(Of course, if it's like their bio-diesel models, it'll only be available in Europe)