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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-08 06:30 PM
Original message
Mileage
http://water4gas.com/2books.htm?hop=woracal

"25% 77% 100% boost - 2007 Dodge 4.7 v8"
2008/07/08 01:35 - Tim D.

my 2007 Dodge 4.7 v8 Multi fuel got a 5 mile per gallon boost so far which is about 25%...Hope to see another 10% or more. Still tweaking the system.

Thanks

*********** A day later Jan.5,2008, Tim wrote again: ***********

Ozzie,

Well I was wrong on the Mileage. At 40MPH I got 26.5 MPG which is 77% higher than the manufactures listed 15 MPG Sticker. Still tweaking the system and hope to break the 30 MPG barrier soon.

*********** On Jan.20,2008, Tim wrote again: ***********

Boosted my mileage to just over 100% from the rated 15 mpg to 30+ MPG and still tweaking. In addition that was with a single unit HHO 32 oz.
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phantom power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-08 06:33 PM
Response to Original message
1. I can see we'll never be able to kill this zombie scam from beyond the grave.
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-08 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Heh.
http://www.hytechapps.com/aquygen
The Product: Aquygen™ Gas

Imagine cutting steel or running a car with ordinary water.

Aquygen™ is a novel gas made from ordinary water through our patented electrolysis process. It replaces oxyacetylene for most brazing, soldering, and cutting applications with superior efficiency, quality, cost-effectiveness, and safety without the need to replace existing equipment. An Aquygen™ flame in open air burns at only 259° F, but applied to a substrate it can produce temperatures of over 10,000° F depending on the target media. Aquygen's unique properties also make it ideal for use in vehicles, such as a hybrid hydrogen-powered car.

http://www.wave3.com/Global/story.asp?s=4939560

Big Names Interested in Water Powered Car

Updated: July 12, 2006 03:43 PM

By Eric Flack

(LOUISVILLE) -- Whether you're trying to catch a fish or maybe just swimming with them, life can be pretty laid back along Florida's gulf coast. That is until you step into the offices of Hydrogen Technology Applications in Clearwater.

People just can't stop talking about Denny Klein's water powered car. The first of its kind.

Project manager Stephen Lusko says, "It's been totally out of control. Thousands of calls and emails. I get 200 emails every hour. They want to partner with us, they want to sell our product, they want to invest in us."

It runs on what is called Aquygen, which is water, or H20, broken down into HHO gas. Klein's prototype, a modified Ford Escort, is a hybrid that uses regular gas infused with Aquygen when the driver throws the switch.

In trials, Aquygen improved gas mileage by as much as 50 percent. That's almost 200 extra miles per tank of gasoline. Klein says an adapter for your car could be on the market sooner than you think. "My guess is probably 2 years to go to the next level," Klein told us.

He says a totally Aquygen powered car in a little further down the road.

The Aquygen car isn't the only thing they are working on. In fact, out of this Florida garage they are doing things with water you won't believe.

They've got a prototype Aquygen only lawn mower and Aquygen machines are already being sold to power blowtorches.

Klein says Aquygen's lack of pollutants is on of its most important qualities and some big names are taking notice. Denny said, "NASA, Daimler Chrysler, General Dynamics, Lockheed Martin."

But thanks to those sky high gas prices, Klein's car has grabbed the spotlight and thrown them into it. "Timing is everything and I think our timing is better now than ever," Klein said.
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tinrobot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-08 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. On this planet, we obey the laws of thermodynamics.
It takes more energy to create the hydrogen than it will release when burned. Net loss of power.

On top of that, a mason jar full of water doesn't contain enough hydrogen to propel a car more than a few hundred feet. In order to generate enough hydrogen to "double your gas mileage" you'd have to have enough hydrogen to match the energy in a tank of gasoline. That would be anywhere from 30-60 gallons of water minimum, depending upon the size of the gas tank, efficiency of the conversion, and efficiency of combustion. Where in this kit is the 55 gallon drum to hold all the water?

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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-08 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Your lack of understanding of what is going on with this technology
doesn't make it "unreal".

Watch the video and learn something about what's actually going on here. Thermodynamic laws aren't being broken... and as far as that goes, there is no such thing as a closed system anywhere at anytime in this universe. Deal with it.

http://www.hytechapps.com/aquygen
Proven Commercial Applications

Aquygen™, also known as HHO gas, is already providing value in commercial use for: Fusing, Brazing, Soldering, and Cutting. Our H2O 1500 Aquygen™ Gas Generator produces the gas from water in a uniform, consistent flow. It can be used to fuse pieces of aluminum and other metals or to braze faster than traditional two-gas methods while requiring only one gas. Steel cutting is more fuel-efficient and 30% faster than traditional methods. Aquygen™ has numerous advantages over oxyacetylene, including improved safety and versatility in working with multiple materials. It even makes possible new artistic techniques.

Wondering when someone will finally put a hydrogen-powered car on the road? We've done it twice. As seen on Fox news and CNN, our patent-pending Hybrid Hydrogen Oxygen System (HHOS) generates Aquygen™ gas as you drive, typically enhancing the fuel-efficiency of a traditional gasoline or diesel engine 20-30%.
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phantom power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-08 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. I think you should buy it, and tell us how well it works.
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-08 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Iffin I had a weld shop I would rent or purchase one. Saving 90%
on the cost of acetylene would suit me to a t. Don't be mad because you didn't post the thread, rather enjoy the fact that there are some people out there willing to challenge traditional thinking who aren't satisfied with being tied up in age old dogma and wives tales. Come on be happy that someone has it going on in this area, it will be good for the environment, good for the planet, good for DU. ;)


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phantom power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-08 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. You can buy their automobile gadget for $300...
I think you'd be throwing your hard-earned money away to a scam, but if you're brave enough to burn 3 benjamins, you could try the experiment.
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-08 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. 49 dollars at this 5 star rated site in all categories....
and I just might do it asap.


And furthermore, I do know of a local shop that is installing systems like these. There are cars and trucks there daily and I think I may stop in next time I pass to see what the dude is up to.

http://runyourcarwith-hhogas.com/?id=A6115012

"Still the best Water Fuel Kit in 2008..."

By far the easiest-to-follow guide we came across - our own experience says you should set aside maybe half a day to buy the parts and get fully installed.

This is the only guide that assumes absolutely no knowledge of cars. Impressively, our support ticket was responded to in under an hour (although it could take a little longer at weekends), and there is an unconditional 8 week guarantee.

Best of all, the technology required is readily available and cheap - we were able to access all the parts needed for well under $50. Given that its proven to increase fuel efficiency by as much as 40%, you could well recoup your investment in under a week.

Installation works with any gas or diesel powered car, van, truck or SUV. Aimed squarely at car "novices", and still our top pick for 2008.

May 2008 Update : there is now a promotion running on the site, and it is temporarily available for $49 instead of $297 - as such, we recommend ordering sooner rather than later.

The Verdict: Fast and easy setup; works for complete car novices; proven fuel savings of upto 40% - our top pick
Click Here to Get Access to Run Your Car On Water
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MrMonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-08 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. "Experts Agree: Water is Viable Fuel Technology"
is the title of a video clip at the linked site. The "experts" in the clip don't mention the use of water as fuel.
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 05:21 AM
Response to Reply #14
18. MrMonk, there are some parking meters that need
attention. :)
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JohnWxy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #8
57. so you are going to buy it and tell us how it does - in the interest of science?
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #57
60. I plan on replicating both the circuitry and reactor section of
Stan Meyer's unique device.
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tinrobot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-08 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. Aquygen... right.
Edited on Thu Jul-17-08 07:35 PM by tinrobot
Aquygen™, also known as HHO gas, is already providing value in commercial use for: Fusing, Brazing, Soldering, and Cutting. Our H2O 1500 Aquygen™ Gas Generator produces the gas from water in a uniform, consistent flow.

There is no such thing as Aquygen. HH0 gas does not exist. There is H2 gas and O2 gas, but HHO is not a gas -- it is a liquid better known as H2O (i.e water)

Electrolysis splits 2 H20 molecules into four atoms of Hydrogen (2 x H2) and 2 of oxygen (O2) -- that's your "HHO gas." When you burn hydrogen(2x H2), it recombines with oxygen (O2 -- either in the atmosphere or supplied, such as in welding) to create water vapor (2x H2O). That science was explained in the 1800's, it's not a new development.

It also takes a lot of energy to crack water into hydrogen and oxygen, subsequently burning the hydrogen creates LESS energy than what was used to crack the water (laws of thermodynamics)

But please, go spend a few hundred dollars on some plastic mason jars and report back as to how well it works.
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-08 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. "Cracking water can be achieved with as little as one volt and
neglibible current". Take a lesson from the master.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfg1dC475OI&feature=related
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tinrobot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-08 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Wow... Aerosmith's "Dream On" really persuaded me.
That seems to be more of a music video than a scientific presentation. I did think the picture of the spaceship was cool though.

Look, if you want to learn from a master, read up on Faraday, he figured out electrolysis in 1832.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday%27s_law_of_electrolysis

The facts are that the amount of matter (i.e. hydrogen gas) released at any given time due to electrolysis is directly proportional to the amount of electric current running through the solution. In layman's terms, this means - more electricity, more gas. And yes, you can do electrolysis with one volt and negligible current, but you'll also be producing negligible hydrogen.

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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 05:15 AM
Response to Reply #12
17. Not a very inquisitive type, huh.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9XrLOudwRw&feature=related



raviwfc (5 months ago) Show Hide
Marked as spam
Its a 10A 12V DC converter from 240V AC mains. The freq gen would work even on a car battery so it doesnt matter where you get the DC input from. I've tried it with a car battery as input and it works fine.

R.
raviwfc (5 months ago) Show Hide
Marked as spam
Will do.

RF...no.....the frequency of your WFC depends on the build and the water contaminants...sound complicated but once you build it its easy to find the right point for max generation after youve conditioned the tubes..

R.
raviwfc (5 months ago) Show Hide
Marked as spam
As per Stans Canadian Patent... 2 parallel tubes are 3.75 times more efficient than plates and concentric tubes (ie more than 2 tubes) are 2.5 times more efficient than plates.

SS 316L seamless tubes are pretty expensive....you could try SS 304L seam less but the brown muck generation would not stop for a long time compared to 316L
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #9
31. There is no such thing as Aquygen. HH0 gas does not exist.
So you think you know it all cuz some prof somewhere told you so..... and another one down and another one down, another one bites the dust. Say you're sorry.

http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PG01&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=%2220060075683%22.PGNR.&OS=DN/20060075683&RS=DN/20060075683
>><0072> It should be indicated that the Brown gas does assumes the existence of "atomic hydrogen". However, calculations have established that such a feature is grossly insufficient to explain all the feature of the HHO gas, as it will be evidence in the following. The fundamental novelty of this invention is, therefore, the use of "polarized atomic hydrogen" as depicted in FIG. 1b.<<

United States Patent Application 20060075683
Kind Code A1
Klein; Dennis J. ; et al. April 13, 2006
Apparatus and method for the conversion of water into a new gaseous and combustible form and the combustible gas formed thereby

Abstract

An electrolyzer which decomposes distilled water into a new fuel composed of hydrogen, oxygen and their molecular and magnecular bonds, called HHO. The electrolyzer can be used to provide the new combustible gas as an additive to combustion engine fuels or in flame or other generating equipment such as torches and welders. The new combustible gas is comprised of clusters of hydrogen and oxygen atoms structured according to a general formula H.sub.mO.sub.n wherein m and n have null or positive integer values with the exception that m and n can not be 0 at the same time, and wherein said combustible gas has a varying energy content depending on its use.
Inventors: Klein; Dennis J.; (Belleair, FL) ; Santilli; Ruggero Maria; (Palm Harbor, FL)
Correspondence Name and Address:

DENNIS G. LAPOINTE;LAPOINTE LAW GROUP, PL
PO BOX 1294
TARPON SPRINGS
FL
34688-1294
US

Serial No.: 274736
Series Code: 11
Filed: November 15, 2005

U.S. Current Class: 48/197FM; 204/268
U.S. Class at Publication: 048/197.0FM; 204/268
Intern'l Class: C10L 3/00 20060101 C10L003/00
Claims


1.-8. (canceled)

9. A bond between a fossil fuel and a combustible gas, said combustible gas being composed of clusters of hydrogen and oxygen atoms with a toroidal polarization of their orbitals and consequential magnetic field along the symmetry axis of said toroidal polarizations, said bond originating from the induced magnetic polarization of at least some of the atomic orbitals of said fuel and the consequential attraction between opposing magnetic polarities wherein said combustible gas has a varying energy content depending on its use and said bonded fossil fuel and combustible gas has a varying energy content depending on its use.

10. The bond according to claim 9, wherein an energy efficiency of a combustion of the resulting fuel is greater than a sum of the separate efficiencies of the combustion of said fossil fuel and said cluster of hydrogen and oxygen gas.

11. The bond according to claim 9, wherein a combustion of said resulting fuel has an exhaust emission having less pollutants than a combustion of said fossil fuel alone.

12. A combustible gas composed of clusters of hydrogen and oxygen atoms structured according to a general formula H.sub.mO.sub.n wherein m and n have null or positive integer values with the exception that m and n can not be 0 at the same time.

13. The combustible gas according to claim 12, wherein said combustible gas includes atomic hydrogen.

14. The combustible gas according to claim 12, wherein said combustible gas includes atomic oxygen.

15. The combustible gas according to claim 12, wherein the combustible gas instantly melts solids.

16. The combustible gas according to claim 12, wherein the combustible gas is capable of combustion without the need of atmospheric oxygen.

17. The combustible gas according to claim 12, wherein the combustible gas is capable of bonding to combustible fuels via magnetic induction.

18. The combustible gas according to claim 12, wherein said clusters of hydrogen and oxygen atoms structured according to the general formula H.sub.mO.sub.n are magnecules.

19. The combustible gas according to claim 12, wherein when said combustible gas is used as an additive with a combustible fuel, a combustion of said fuel having said additive results in an exhaust emission having less pollutants than a combustion of said fuel alone.

20. The combustible gas according to claim 12, wherein said combustible gas has a varying energy content depending on its use.

21.-50. (canceled)
Description


RELATED APPLICATION

<0001> This patent application is a divisional application of U.S. patent application Ser. No. 10/760,336 filed on Jan. 20, 2004, which is a continuation-in-part application of the U.S. patent application Ser. No. 10/277,841 filed on Oct. 22, 2002, a continuation-in-part application of the U.S. patent application Ser. No. 10/065,111 filed on Sep. 18, 2002, and a continuation-in-part application of the U.S. patent application Ser. No. 09/826,183 filed on Apr. 4, 2001.

BACKGROUND OF THE INVENTION

<0002> 1. Field of the Invention

<0003> This invention is related to equipment or a system and method for the processing of water or distilled water into a gaseous and combustible form of HHO combustible gas produced from water for use in internal combustion engine systems, in other fossil fuel engine systems, in gaseous welding systems and other similar systems. The invention is also related to the form of HHO combustible gas produced from electrolyzers or gas generators connected to such systems.

<0004> The field of this patent application has been the subject of a rather vast number of patents. Among such prior art is U.S. Pat. No. 4,014,777 issued on Mar. 29, 1977 to Yull Brown under the title "Welding"; U.S. Pat. No. 4,081,656 issued on Mar. 28, 1978 to Yull Brown under the title "Arc assisted hydrogen/oxygen welding"; and other similar patents. In accordance with the above patents as well as with the subsequent rather large literature in the field, "Brown gas" is defined as a combustible gas composed of conventional hydrogen and conventional oxygen gases having the exact stochiometric ratio of 2/3 hydrogen and 1/3 oxygen. As we shall see, the combustible gas treated in this invention is dramatically different than the Brown gas.

<0005> The electrolytic equipment and methods for water separation have also been the subject of a vast number of patents, among which is U.S. Pat. No. 4,726,888 issued Feb. 23, 1988 to Michael McCambridge, entitled "Electrolysis Of Water;" U.S. Pat. No. 5,231,954 issued Aug. 3, 1995 to Gene B. Stowe entitled "Hydrogen/Oxygen Fuel Cell"; U.S. Pat. No. 5,401,371 issued Mar. 29, 1995 to Yujiro Oshima entitled "Hydrogen Generator;" and others.

<0006> The novelty of the present invention over preceding prior art is clear and distinct. The prior art deals with equipment and methods for the processing of water into conventional gaseous fuels, that is, fuels possessing the conventional molecular chemical composition or mixture of chemical compositions and is sometimes referred to as "Brown's Gas". By comparison, the present invention provides equipment or a system and related processes (methodology) to produce novel fuel composed of a chemical species beyond that of molecules, that is, HHO combustible gas, which fuel is produced from water using a particular form of electrolyzer.

DESCRIPTION OF THE INVENTION

<0007> This invention deals with the structure, properties and initial applications of a new clean burning combustible gas hereinafter called "HHO gas" produced from distilled water using a special electrolyzer described in detail in the Specifications.

<0008> It will be soon evident that, despite a number of similarities, the HHO gas is dramatically different than the Brown gas or other gases produced by pre-existing electrolyzers. In fact, the latter is a combination of conventional hydrogen and conventional oxygen gases, that is, gases possessing the conventional "molecular" structure, having the exact stochiometric ratio of 2/3 hydrogen and 1/3 oxygen. As we shall see, the HHO gas does not have such an exact stochiometric ratio but instead has basically a structure having a "magnecular" characteristic, including the presence of clusters in macroscopic percentages that cannot be explained via the usual valence bond. As a consequence, the constituents clusters of the Brown Gas and the HHO gas are dramatically different both in percentages as well as in chemical composition, as shown below.

<0009> The first remarkable feature of the special electrolyzers of this invention are their efficiencies. For example, with the use of only 4 Kwh, an electrolyzer rapidly converts water into 55 standard cubic feet (scf) of HHO gas at 35 pounds per square inch (psi). By using the average daily cost of electricity at the rate of $0.08/Kwh, the above efficiency implies the direct cost of the HHO gas of $0.007/scf. It then follows that the HHO gas is cost competitive with respect to existing fuels.

<0010> Under direct inspection, the HHO gas results to be odorless, colorless and lighter than air. A first basic feature in the production of the HHO gas is that there is no evaporation of water at all, and water is directly transmuted into the HHO gas. In any case, the electric energy available in the electrolyzer is basically insufficient for water evaporation.

<0011> This feature alone establishes that the special electrolyzers of this invention produce a "new form of water" which is gaseous and combustible. The main objective of this invention is the first identification on record of the produced unknown chemical composition of the HHO gas, its relationship with the special electrolyzers of this invention, and some initial applications.

<0012> The second important feature of the HHO gas is that it exhibits a "widely varying energy content" in British Thermal Units (BTU), ranging from a relatively cold flame in open air, to large releases of thermal energy depending on its use. This is a direct evidence of fundamental novelty in the chemical structure of the HHO gas.

<0013> In fact, all known fuels have a "fixed energy content" namely, a value of BTU/scf that remains the same for all uses. Also, the variable character of the energy content of the HHO gas is clear evidence that the gas has a magnecular characteristic in its structure, rather than a molecular structure, namely, that its chemical composition includes bonds beyond those of valence type.

<0014> The third important feature of the HHO gas is that it does not require any oxygen for its combustion since it contains in its interior all oxygen needed for that scope. By recalling that other fuels require atmospheric oxygen for their combustion, thus causing a serious environmental problem known as "oxygen depletion," the capability to have combustion without any oxygen depletion renders the HHO gas particularly important on environmental grounds.

<0015> The fourth important feature of the HHO gas is its anomalous adhesion to gases, liquids and solids, as verified experimentally below, thus rendering its use particularly effective as an additive for the enhancement of desired qualities.

<0016> The fifth important feature of the HHO gas is that it does not follow the fundamental PVT law of all conventional gases (namely, those with molecular structure), since the HHO gas begins to deviate from this law at around 150 psi, and it reacquires the water state at a sufficiently high pressures beginning with 250 psi. These aspects are further being investigated for possible development and commercial exploitation.

<0017> The sixth important feature of the HHO gas is that it bonds to gaseous fuels (such as natural gas, magnegas fuel, and other fuels) and liquid fuels (such as diesel, gasoline, liquid petroleum, and other fuels) by significantly improving their thermal content as well as the environmental quality of their exhaust.

<0018> The seventh and most important feature of the HHO gas is that it melts almost instantaneously tungsten, bricks, and other highly refractive substances. In particular, measurements have established the remarkable capability by the HHO gas of reaching almost instantaneously temperatures up to 9,000 degrees C., namely a temperature of the order of that in the Sun chromosphere under which all substances on Earth can be sublimated.

<0019> This invention also involves an electrolyzer for the separation of water, which includes, in one embodiment an electrolysis chamber; an aqueous electrolytic solution comprising water and electrolyte, the aqueous electrolyte solution partially filling the electrolysis chamber such that a gas reservoir region is formed above the aqueous electrolyte solution; two principal electrodes comprising an anode electrode and a cathode electrode, the two principal electrodes being at least partially immersed in the aqueous electrolyte solution; one or more supplemental electrodes at least partially immersed in the aqueous electrolyte solution and interposed between the two principal electrodes wherein the two principal electrodes and the one or more supplemental electrodes are held in a fixed spatial relationship; wherein said electrolyzer produces a combustible gas composed of hydrogen and oxygen atoms and their bonds into chemical species caused by electrons valence bonds and the bond due to attractive forces between opposing magnetic polarities originating in the toroidal polarization of the electron orbitals. Furthermore, the relatively simple design of the electrodes--as rectangular or square metallic shapes allows for the electrodes to be easily replaced. The combustible gas is collected in the gas reservoir region, which is adapted to deliver the gas to the fuel system of an internal combustion engine.

<0020> The invention can be used to improve the fuel efficiency of an internal combustion engine. The method comprises using any of the embodiments of the electrolyzers disclosed herein in conjunction with an internal combustion engine. An electrical potential is applied to the electrodes of the electrolyzer thereby caused the electrolyzer to generate the gas. The gas is then combined with the fuel in the fuel system of the internal combustion engine before the fuel is combusted in the internal combustion engine.

<0021> In still another embodiment of an electrolyzer, an electrolyzer includes an electrolysis chamber which holds an electrolyte solution. The electrolysis chamber mates with a cover at a flange. Preferably, there is a seal between the chamber and cover, which is made from a neoprene gasket, which is placed between the flange and cover. The electrolyte solution may be an aqueous electrolyte solution to produce a mixture of the novel gases; however, to produce the novel inventive gases, distilled water preferably is used.

<0022> The electrolyte partially fills the electrolysis chamber during operation to level such that gas reservoir region is formed above the electrolyte solution. The electrolyzer includes two principle electrodes--anode electrode and cathode electrode--which are at least partially immersed in the electrolyte solution. Anode electrode and cathode electrode slip into grooves in a rack. The rack is placed inside the chamber. One or more supplemental electrodes are also placed in the rack. Again, the supplemental electrodes are at least partially immersed in the aqueous electrolyte solution and interposed between the anode electrode and cathode electrode. Furthermore, anode electrode, cathode electrode, and supplemental electrodes are held in a fixed spatial relationship by rack. Preferably, anode electrode, cathode electrode, and supplemental electrodes are separated by a distance of about 0.25 inches. The one or more supplemental electrodes allow for enhanced and efficient generation of this gas mixture. Preferably, there are from 1 to 50 supplemental electrodes interposed between the two principal electrodes. More preferably, there are from 5 to 30 supplemental electrodes interposed between the two principal electrodes, and most preferably, there are about 15 supplemental electrodes interposed between the two principal electrodes. Preferably, the two principle electrodes are each individually a metallic wire mesh, a metallic plate, or a metallic plate having one or more holes. More preferably, the two principle electrodes are each individually a metallic plate. A suitable metal from which the two principal electrodes are formed, includes but is not limited to, nickel, nickel containing alloys, and stainless steel. The preferred metal for the two electrodes is nickel. The one or more supplemental electrodes are preferably a metallic wire mesh, a metallic plate, or a metallic plate having one or more holes. More preferably, the one or more supplemental electrodes are each individually a metallic plate. A suitable metal from which the two principal electrodes are formed, includes but is not limited to, nickel, nickel containing alloys, and stainless steel. The preferred metal for the two electrodes is nickel.

<0023> During operation of the electrolyzer, a voltage is applied between the anode electrode and cathode electrode which causes the novel gas to be produced and which collects in a gas reservoir region. The gaseous mixture exits the gas reservoir region from through an exit port and ultimately is fed into the fuel system of an internal combustion engine. An electrical contact to anode electrode is made through a contactor and electrical contact to cathode electrode is made by another contactor. The contactors are preferably made from metal and are slotted with channels such that the contactors fit over the anode electrode and cathode electrode. The contactors are attached to rods, which slip through holes in the cover. Preferable the holes are threaded and the rods are threaded rods so that rods screw into the holes. The contactors also hold the rack in place since the anode electrode and cathode electrode are held in place by channels and by grooves in the rack. Accordingly, when the cover is bolted to the chamber, the rack is held at the bottom of the chamber. The electrolyzer optionally includes a pressure relief valve and a level sensor. The pressure relief valve allows the gaseous mixture in the gas reservoir to be vented before a dangerous pressure buildup can be formed. The level sensor ensures that an alert is sounded and the flow of gas to the vehicle fuel system is stopped when the electrolyte solution gets too low. At such time when the electrolyte solution is low, addition electrolyte solution is added through a water fill port. The electrolyzer may also include a pressure gauge so that the pressure in the reservoir may be monitored. Finally, the electrolyzer optionally includes one or more fins which remove heat from the electrolyzer.

<0024> In a variation of an electrolyzer, a first group of the one or more supplemental electrodes is connected to the anode electrode with a first metallic conductor and a second group of the one or more supplemental electrodes is connected to the cathode electrode with a second metallic conductor. The anode electrode, cathode electrode, and supplemental electrodes are held to the rack by a holder rod, which slips through channels in the rack and the holes in the electrodes. The rack is preferably fabricated from a high dielectric plastic such as PVC, polyethylene or polypropylene. Furthermore, the rack holds the anode electrode, cathode electrode, and supplemental electrodes in a fixed spatial relationship. Preferably, the fixed spatial relationship of the two principal electrodes and the one or more supplemental electrodes is such that the electrodes (two principal and one or more supplemental) are essentially parallel and each electrode is separated from an adjacent electrode by a distance from about 0.15 to about 0.35 inches. More preferably, each electrode is separated from an adjacent electrode by a distance from about 0.2 to about 0.3 inches, and most preferably about 0.25 inches. The fixed spatial relationship is accomplished by a rack that holds the two principal electrodes and the one or more supplemental electrodes in the fixed spatial relationship. The electrodes sit in grooves in the rack which define the separations between each electrode. Furthermore, the electrodes are removable from the rack so that the electrodes or the rack may be changed if necessary. Finally, since the rack and anode electrode and cathode electrode are held in place as set forth above, the supplemental electrodes are also held in place because they are secured to the rack by the holder rod.

<0025> During operation, the novel combustible gas is formed by the electrolysis of the electrolyte solution in the electrolyzer. The electrolyzer is connected to a collection tank by a pressure line. The gases are collected and temporarily stored in the collection tank. The collection tank optionally includes a pressure relief valve to guard against any dangerous pressure build up. The collection tank is connected to a solenoid by a pressure line. The solenoid is in turn connected by a pressure line to an engine intake manifold. Optionally, a flash arrestor is incorporated in the pressure line to prevent a flame from propagating in a tube. Furthermore, a pressure line also includes an orifice to regulate the flow of the gaseous mixture into the intake manifold. The size of this orifice will depend on the size of the engine. For example, an orifice diameter of about 0.04 is suitable for a 1 liter engine, about 0.06 inches is suitable for a 2.5 liter engine, and about 0.075 inches is suitable for a V8 engine. The applied voltage to the electrolyzer is provided through the solenoid by an electrolyzer battery. When the pressure in the collection tank drops below about 25 psi, solenoid switches and a voltage of about 12 V is applied between the anode electrode and cathode electrode. A battery isolator allows for charging of a vehicle battery and electrolyzer battery by an alternator while keeping the electrolyzer battery and vehicle battery electrically isolated. Furthermore, the solenoid is powered by the vehicle battery when the main switch is activated. A gas mixer solenoid is also powered by the vehicle battery and opens when the gas mixture is provided to the intake manifold. The solenoid also receives a feedback from the level sensor which causes the solenoid to shut off the gas flow if the electrolyte solution level in the electrolyzer gets too low. Finally, when the method and apparatus of the present invention are used in a vehicle, the operation of the vehicle's oxygen sensor needs to be adjusted to take into account the additional oxygen that is added to the fuel system from the electrolyzer. Normally, if the oxygen sensor senses more oxygen, the vehicle's computer would determine that the engine is running lean and open up the fuel injectors to a richer fuel mixture. This is undesirable and would cause poor fuel economy.

<0026> In another embodiment of the present invention, a method for increasing the fuel efficiency of an internal combustion engine is provided. The method of this embodiment utilizes the electrolyzer described above in conjunction with an internal combustion engine. Specifically, the method comprises providing an electrolyzer equipment described above or as further described below in other novel embodiments; applying an electrical potential between the electrodes wherein the novel combustible gas described herein is generated and collected in the gas reservoir region and wherein the electrolyzer is adapted to deliver the combustible gas to the fuel system of an internal combustion engine; and combining the combustible gas produced with fuel in the fuel system of an internal combustion engine. The step of adjusting the operation of an oxygen sensor as set forth above is also provided.

<0027> In another embodiment, an electrolyzer or gas generator is incorporated into a welding/cutting torch system or another type of equipment/engine system. This system comprises an electrolyte reservoir, having a top and a bottom, containing electrolytic fluid therein. The fluid herein is preferably water. The electrolyte reservoir comprises a broken or permeable plate, which is sealably and circumferentially positioned around a top end of the electrolyte reservoir. Plate functions to release gas pressure within the electrolyte reservoir when exceeding a pre-determined safety level.

<0028> The self-producing hydrogen and oxygen gas generating system further comprises a pump, preferably an electromagnetic pump, which is connected at one distal end to the bottom of the electrolyte reservoir. Pump is connected at an opposite distal end to at least one hydrogen and oxygen electrolyzer/generator containing an electrical conductor therein. The electrical conductor is electrically connected on one distal end to an electrical ground. The opposite distal end of the electrical conductor is electrically connected to one distal end of a pressure controller. The opposite distal end of the electrical conductor is electrically connected to a power source. Pump functions to circulate electrolytic fluid from the electrolyte reservoir through at least one hydrogen and oxygen electrolyzer/generator through a radiator back into the electrolyte reservoir via a gas pipe. The radiator functions to cool the generated hydrogen and oxygen gas before returning to the electrolyte reservoir.

<0029> The pressure controller is connected to the electrolyte reservoir and monitors the pressure therein. When gas pressure within the electrolyte reservoir exceeds a pre-determined level, electrical current is terminated to the electrical conductor contained within the hydrogen and oxygen generator thereby ceasing production of hydrogen and oxygen gas. When gas pressure within the electrolyte reservoir drops below a pre-determined level, electrical current is connected to the electrical conductor contained within the hydrogen and oxygen generator thereby commencing production of hydrogen and oxygen gas. The pre-selected level is less than the pre-selected level required to cause a pressure release through plate.

<0030> This self-producing on-demand hydrogen and oxygen generating system further comprises a non-return valve connected at one end to an upper end of the electrolyte reservoir below plate. The non-return valve is further connected to a dryer/filter means or tank at an opposite distal end.

<0031> System further comprises another filter/dryer means or tank in fluid communication with one end of the electrolyte reservoir above plate and further connected at an opposite distal end to another non-retum valve via gas line, which is connected at an opposite end to another filter/dryer means or tank.

<0032> System further comprises a decompression valve in fluid communication at one end to the top end of the electrolyte reservoir and further being in fluid communication with the gas pipe, which in turn is connected to radiator.

<0033> The welding system further comprises a microprocessor controlled D.C. amperage regulator adapted to regulate the D.C. amperage from the power source to the hydrogen and oxygen generator. A first microprocessor controlled cut-off switch is adapted to terminate the power source to the welder in response to a malfunction of the pump.

<0034> A second microprocessor controlled cut-off switch is adapted to terminate the power source to the welder in response to an insufficient electrolyte solution condition within the electrolyte reservoir. A microprocessor controlled liquid crystal display is adapted to display operating statistics regarding the welding system, such statistics to include hours of operation, amperage, indicator lights and pressure gauge readings. The liquid crystal display receives input from a plurality of locations within the system.

<0035> A microprocessor controlled polarity change system is adapted to change the polarity of the electrical conductor located within the hydrogen and oxygen generator. A microprocessor controlled cool-down system is adapted to operate a generator fan and the pump wherein operation of the fan and the pump continue throughout a cool-down stage following manual shut-off of the welder.

<0036> The produced gas or HHO gas is routed from the dryer means to the final gas reservoir tank. Dryer means and are only exemplary. It is understood that a single unit may be designed to effectively accomplish the same objective. The gas is then supplied on-demand to the engine or in this case, the welding equipment, through gas line and hydrogen flash suppressor check valve (non-return valve) and control valve.

<0037> As mentioned above, a flame from said produced gas or species of hydrogen and oxygen, from said electrolyzer can instantly melt solids without the use of atmospheric oxygen. The produced gas can also be used as a fuel without the use of atmospheric oxygen, and can bond to other substances via magnetic induction.

<0038> A bond is created between a fossil fuel and a combustible gas composed by a combination of hydrogen and oxygen atoms with toroidal polarization of their orbitals. The bond originates from the induced magnetic polarization of at least some of the orbitals of said fuel and the consequential attraction between opposing magnetic polarities. The combustion exhaust of the resulting fuel is cleaner than that of said fossil fuels. Further, the resulting fuel has contained more thermal energy than that of said fossil fuels.

BRIEF DESCRIPTION OF THE DRAWINGS

<0039> FIG. 1a depicts a conventional hydrogen atom with its distribution of electron orbitals in all space directions, thus forming a sphere;

<0040> FIG. 1b depicts the same hydrogen atom wherein its electron is polarized to orbit within a toroid resulting in the creation of a magnetic field along the symmetry axis of said toroid;

<0041> FIG. 2a depicts a conventional hydrogen molecule with some of the rotations caused by temperature;

<0042> FIG. 2b depicts the same conventional molecule in which the orbitals are polarized into toroids, thus causing two magnetic field in opposite directions since the hydrogen molecule is diamagnetic;

<0043> FIG. 3a depict the conventional water molecules H--O--H in which the dimers H--O and O--H form an angle of 105 degrees, and in which the orbitals of the two H atoms are polarized in toroids perpendicular to the H--O--H plane;

<0044> FIG. 3b depicts the central species of this invention consisting of the water molecule in which one valence bond has been broken, resulting in the collapse of one hydrogen atom against the other;

<0045> FIG. 4a depicts a polarized conventional hydrogen molecule;

<0046> FIG. 4b depicts a main species of this invention, the bond between two hydrogen atoms caused by the attractive forces between opposing magnetic polarities originating in the toroidal polarizations of the orbitals;

<0047> FIG. 5 depicts a new chemical species identified for the first time in this invention consisting of two dimers H--O of the water molecule in their polarized form as occurring in the water molecule, with consequential magnetic bond, plus an isolated and polarized hydrogen atom also magnetically bonded to the preceding atoms;

<0048> FIG. 6 depicts mass spectrometric scans of the HHO gas of this invention;

<0049> FIG. 7 depicts infrared scans of the conventional hydrogen gas;

<0050> FIG. 8 depicts infrared scans of the conventional oxygen gas;

<0051> FIG. 9 depicts infrared scans of the HHO gas of this invention;

<0052> FIG. 10 depicts the mass spectrography of the commercially available diesel fuel;

<0053> FIG. 11 depicts the mass spectrography of the same diesel fuel of the preceding FIG. 10 with the HHO gas of this invention occluded in its interior via bubbling;

<0054> FIG. 12 depicts an analytic detection of the hydrogen content of the HHO gas of this invention;

<0055> FIG. 13 depicts an analytic detection of the oxygen content of the HHO gas of this invention;

<0056> FIG. 14 depicts an analytic detection of impurities contained in the HHO gas of this invention;

<0057> FIG. 15 depicts the anomalous blank of the detector since it shows residual substances following the removal of the gas;

<0058> FIG. 16 depicts a scan confirming the presence in HHO of the basic species with 2 amu representing H--H and H.times.H, and the presence of a clean species with 5 amu that can only be interpreted as H--H.times.H--H.times.H;

<0059> FIG. 17 depicts a scan which provides clear evidence of a species with mass 16 amu that in turn confirms the presence in HHO of isolated atomic oxygen, and which confirms the presence in HHO of the species H--O with 17 amu and the species with 18 amu consisting of H--O--H and H.times.H--O;

<0060> FIG. 18 depicts a scan which establishes the presence in HHO of the species with 33 amu representing O--OXH or O--O--H, and 34 amu representing O--H.times.O--H and similar configurations;

<0061> FIG. 19 is an exploded view of an electrolyzer;

<0062> FIG. 20 is top view of a variation of an electrolyzer in which one group of supplemental electrodes are connected to the anode electrode and a second group of supplemental electrodes are connected to the cathode electrode;

<0063> FIG. 21 is a perspective view of the electrode plate securing mechanism for the electrolyzer of FIG. 20;

<0064> FIG. 22 is a plumbing schematic showing the integration of an electrolyzer when applied to a vehicle;

<0065> FIG. 23 is an electrical schematic showing the integration of an electrolyzer when applied to a vehicle; and

<0066> FIG. 24 is a schematic representation of a mixed gas electrolyzer applied to a welder system.

DETAILED DESCRIPTION OF THE INVENTION

<0067> A summary of the scientific representation of the preceding main features of the HHO gas is outlined below without formulae for simplicity of understanding by a broader audience.

<0068> Where the HHO gas originates from distilled water using a special electrolytic process described hereinafter, it is generally believed that such a gas is composed of 2/3 (or 66.66% in volume) hydrogen H2 and 1/2 (or 33.33% in volume) oxygen O2.

<0069> A fundamental point of this invention is the evidence that such a conventional mixture of H2 and O2 gases absolutely cannot represent the above features of the HHO gas, thus establishing the novel existence in the produced inventive HHO gas.

<0070> The above occurrence is established beyond any possible doubt by comparing the performance of the HHO gas with that of a mixture of 66.66% of H2 and 33.33% of O2. There is simply no condition whatsoever under which, the latter gas can instantly cut tungsten or melt bricks as done by the HHO gas, therein supporting the novelty in the chemical structure of the produced HHO gas.

<0071> To begin the identification of the novelty in the HHO gas we note that the special features of the HHO gas, such as the capability of instantaneous melting tungsten and bricks, require that HHO contains not only "atomic hydrogen" (that is, individual H atoms without valence bond to other atoms as in FIG. 1a), but also "magnetically polarized atomic hydrogen", that is, hydrogen atoms whose electrons are polarized to rotate in a toroid, rather than in all space directions, as per FIG. 1b.

<0072> It should be indicated that the Brown gas does assumes the existence of "atomic hydrogen". However, calculations have established that such a feature is grossly insufficient to explain all the feature of the HHO gas, as it will be evidence in the following. The fundamental novelty of this invention is, therefore, the use of "polarized atomic hydrogen" as depicted in FIG. 1b.
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OKIsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #4
24. AKA "Brown's Gas"
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DCKit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 05:42 AM
Response to Reply #3
20. There are a couple of companies selling LNG injectors for vehicles.
They claim a 25%-30% increase for diesel engines and about half that for gas.

However, before I believe any of these claims, I want to see it for myself. Hate to spend $500+ just to find out I "didn't install it correctly" or "damaged the unit".

Regardless, if you're burning pure H2 in an engine, the result is going to be more than the usual H20 upon combustion - at over 450F. Given that steam is a damn powerful energy conveyor, it sounds to me like they may have something. You're not only getting the combustion energy of the H2, but and extra kick from the expansion of the steam.
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lfairban Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #20
26. ?
LGN is an abbreviation for liquefied natural gas. I am not sure how that relates to our discussion about on the fly H2 production.

I am also not sure where you are getting this "kick from the expansion of the steam". The steam expands because of the heat from combustion. Actually, it is pretty hot when it is created during the combustion so it is not going to expand much because not going to heat up much further, depending on whether you are talking about the steam created in the early stage of the combustion when the chamber is a little cooler or the steam created a few milliseconds later in the final stage. In any case, this is exactly what happens when a hydrocarbon mixture such as gasoline is burned. It doesn't make any difference if the hydrogen comes from H2 or a hydrocarbon such as Octane: C8H18.
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DCKit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #26
46. Are you a physycist, or running for the supreme court?
I simply stated an opinion, and you're just being a know-it-all.

Who cares at what stage the H2O adds it's power, if there's power to be gained?

Have you tried it? Or are you just on some power trip?
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lfairban Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 02:04 AM
Response to Reply #46
47. B.S. Chemistry, 1977
And one doesn't run for the Supreme Court, one is appointed.
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 07:26 AM
Response to Reply #46
50. This stuff isn't important and no one should be talking about it.
PowerPedia:Water as fuel
From PESWiki

The water fuel cell appears to be a perpetual motion device that function by breaking water into hydrogen and oxygen gases using less energy than that present in the bond itself. The water fuel cell was claimed to produce several times more energy than it consumed (for instance, by connecting it to an engine that would burn the hydrogen back into water), and a car prototype powered by a water fuel cell was assembled.

A model has been put forth by Moray King, Ph.D., that explains this excess energy as coming from Zero Point Energy.

The main concept underlying the technology is an irreversible reaction induced by voltage breakdown. Compliance with the parameters of an irreversible reaction dictates that the system in entropically driven rather than thermodynamically driven. The energy input into the system is the magnitude require to charge a capacitor, with pure water as dielectric material, to voltage breakdown threshold.

Its name notwithstanding, the water fuel cell is not a fuel cell. It is also not an electrolyzer because the system explicity violates the 1'st and 2'nd laws of electrolysis. The device utilizes the paramenter of "voltage breakdown" to force pure water into higher state of entropy, resulting in decomposition.



Construction

Stanley Meyer was granted patents in the United States and abroad starting in 1989; patents, in general, are not equivalent to peer review, and do not imply the findings have been confirmed and reproduced by independent parties. However, in Meyer's case, the Methods patent was only granted after a Sec. 101 review, in which he was required to demonstrate a working unit before a board of experts appointed by the USPTO, in person (which most would consider to be a substantially more authoritative review than passive papers being traded back and forth by peers who've never laid eyes on the thing before). The "water fuel cell" consists of stainless steel plates arranged as a capacitor, with pure water acting as the dielectric.

Meyer presented his fuel cell device to Professor Michael Laughton, Dean of Engineering at Queen Mary College, London, Admiral Sir Anthony Griffin, a former controller of the British Navy, and Dr. Keith Hindley, a UK research chemist. <1> (http://www.peswiki.com/index.php/PowerPedia:Water_as_fu... )


According to the witnesses, the most startling aspect of the Meyer cell was that it remained cold, even after hours of gas production as his system appeared to operate on mere milliamperes, rather than the amperes that conventional electrolysis would require. The witnesses also stated:

After hours of discussion between ourselves, we concluded that Stan Meyer did appear to have discovered an entirely new method for splitting water which showed few of the characteristics of classical electrolysis. Possible Theory On How The Water Fuel Cell Works (http://www.waterfuelcell.org/concept.html ) Confirmation that his devices actually do work come from his collection of granted US patents on various parts of the WFC system. Since they were granted under Section 101 by the US Patent Office, the hardware involved in the patents has been examined experimentally by US Patent Office experts and their seconded experts and all the claims have been established.


Stanley Meyer

* U.S. Patent 5,149,407 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?patentnumber=... ) (G.patent (http://www.google.com/patents?q=5,149,407 ); PDF (http://www.pat2pdf.org/pat2pdf/foo.pl?number=5,149,407 )): Process and apparatus for the production of fuel gas and the enhanced release of thermal energy from such gas
* U.S. Patent 4,936,961 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?patentnumber=... ) (G.patent (http://www.google.com/patents?q=4,936,961 ); PDF (http://www.pat2pdf.org/pat2pdf/foo.pl?number=4,936,961 )): Method for the production of a fuel gas
* U.S. Patent 4,826,581 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?patentnumber=... ) (G.patent (http://www.google.com/patents?q=4,826,581 ); PDF (http://www.pat2pdf.org/pat2pdf/foo.pl?number=4,826,581 )): Controlled process for the production of thermal energy from gases and apparatus useful therefore
* U.S. Patent 4,798,661 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?patentnumber=... ) (G.patent (http://www.google.com/patents?q=4,798,661 ); PDF (http://www.pat2pdf.org/pat2pdf/foo.pl?number=4,798,661 )): Gas generator voltage control circuit
* U.S. Patent 4,613,779 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?patentnumber=... ) (G.patent (http://www.google.com/patents?q=4,613,779 ); PDF (http://www.pat2pdf.org/pat2pdf/foo.pl?number=4,613,779 )): Electrical pulse generator
* U.S. Patent 4,613,304 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?patentnumber=... ) (G.patent (http://www.google.com/patents?q=4,613,304 ); PDF (http://www.pat2pdf.org/pat2pdf/foo.pl?number=4,613,304 )): Gas electrical hydrogen generator
* U.S. Patent 4,465,455 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?patentnumber=... ) (G.patent (http://www.google.com/patents?q=4,465,455 ); PDF (http://www.pat2pdf.org/pat2pdf/foo.pl?number=4,465,455 )): Start-up/shut-down for a hydrogen gas burner
* U.S. Patent 4,421,474 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?patentnumber=... ) (G.patent (http://www.google.com/patents?q=4,421,474 ); PDF (http://www.pat2pdf.org/pat2pdf/foo.pl?number=4,421,474 )): Hydrogen gas burner
* U.S. Patent 4,389,981 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?patentnumber=... ) (G.patent (http://www.google.com/patents?q=4,389,981 ); PDF (http://www.pat2pdf.org/pat2pdf/foo.pl?number=4,389,981 )): Hydrogen gas injector system for internal combustion engine
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DCKit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #50
54. Thanks!
My thoughts were not about the perpetual motion/zero point/free energy aspects of HHO injection, but whether HHO injection actually improves MPG under any conditions. As I stated, the companies that sell the LNG injectors claim an improvement of ~30% on diesel engines. However, when I contacted one company, they put on such a hard sell, I was immediately suspicious and didn't pursue it.

I just spent about two hours reading the latest car news and found one article that put ignition temp inside the cylinder at well over 2,500F. At that temperature, water molecules can't get far enough away from each other - I don't believe any steam tables would have info on how high the pressure would be. That expansion must be contributing mightily to engine power. Granted, every explosion is an expansion, but that is far beyond the working temperature of any steam powered device. I figure the more H2O you can get into that cylinder - to the limit of dampening combustion - the better. LNG combusts to form some H2O and HHO is nothing but.

I'm just curious that way.
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #54
63. I had a video for you... let me see.... see if you think this guy is
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Howzit Donating Member (918 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #50
113. "The water fuel cell appears to be a perpetual motion device that function by
breaking water into hydrogen and oxygen gases using less energy than that present in the bond itself."

The key words here are "appears" and "perpetual motion"....
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Nihil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 07:46 AM
Response to Reply #2
21. Two things to say on this as you are both right and wrong:
1) The "oxyacetylene replacement" aspect is correct as it is somehow trying
to trademark Brown's Gas (aka Oxyhydrogen) which is a known mixture that
*is* very useful for brazing, soldering and cutting applications.

(See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxyhydrogen for some info though I first
read about this stuff in books years ago.)

Although the concept and claims are valid, I'd be wary of buying a product
from a company that is probably fly-by-night as they are definitely on the
borderline of legality with respect to advertising (in the same way that
selling tap water as "Healthy Tonic WonderDrink" would be).


2) The "car fuel" aspect is incorrect as it is just another name pasted onto
the zombie water-powered-car scam.

You will note that the fuel *isn't* water, it is "regular gas infused with
Aquygen" ... i.e., the car is running on regular gas that has had a flammable
gas (mixture) bubbled through it. I suspect that there will be a minor
improvement in performance over "flat" petrol (from the change in volatility)
but wouldn't be at all surprised if you gained the same 'benefit' by bubbling
a fart through your petrol tank.

Hope this helps. :hi:
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #21
29. Farts depending on the food source usually only yield 3 to 4 miles
per gallon increase in fuel efficiency. The other thing boasts 30 to 50 percent. Quite a bit of difference there.
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cosmik debris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #1
23. Do you remember a sit-com called
That 70's Show? There was a character named Stephen Hyde who frequently commented about the car that ran on water. And everybody laughed at him.

The reason they laughed was because, even in the 70's this scam was old. It was revived by the OPEC oil embargo and got a lot of laughs for a few years.

When I first heard about it in the mid 60's, the story was that "big oil" had bought up the patent rights and was holding it off the market. But they said the same thing about radial tires too, :)
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #23
30. Easily led astray this one. Pity that. n't
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cosmik debris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #30
35. This scam is over fifty years old.
And people are still falling for it.

Those who don't learn from history.....make fools of themselves on internet message boards.

:rofl:
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. Read the patent, just because you don't understand what is going
on doesn't mean that it isn't.

United States Patent Application 20060075683
Kind Code A1
Klein; Dennis J. ; et al. April 13, 2006
Apparatus and method for the conversion of water into a new gaseous and combustible form and the combustible gas formed thereby

Abstract

An electrolyzer which decomposes distilled water into a new fuel composed of hydrogen, oxygen and their molecular and magnecular bonds, called HHO. The electrolyzer can be used to provide the new combustible gas as an additive to combustion engine fuels or in flame or other generating equipment such as torches and welders. The new combustible gas is comprised of clusters of hydrogen and oxygen atoms structured according to a general formula H.sub.mO.sub.n wherein m and n have null or positive integer values with the exception that m and n can not be 0 at the same time, and wherein said combustible gas has a varying energy content depending on its use.
Inventors: Klein; Dennis J.; (Belleair, FL) ; Santilli; Ruggero Maria; (Palm Harbor, FL)
Correspondence Name and Address:

DENNIS G. LAPOINTE;LAPOINTE LAW GROUP, PL
PO BOX 1294
TARPON SPRINGS
FL
34688-1294
US

Serial No.: 274736
Series Code: 11
Filed: November 15, 2005

U.S. Current Class: 48/197FM; 204/268
U.S. Class at Publication: 048/197.0FM; 204/268
Intern'l Class: C10L 3/00 20060101 C10L003/00
Claims


1.-8. (canceled)

9. A bond between a fossil fuel and a combustible gas, said combustible gas being composed of clusters of hydrogen and oxygen atoms with a toroidal polarization of their orbitals and consequential magnetic field along the symmetry axis of said toroidal polarizations, said bond originating from the induced magnetic polarization of at least some of the atomic orbitals of said fuel and the consequential attraction between opposing magnetic polarities wherein said combustible gas has a varying energy content depending on its use and said bonded fossil fuel and combustible gas has a varying energy content depending on its use.

10. The bond according to claim 9, wherein an energy efficiency of a combustion of the resulting fuel is greater than a sum of the separate efficiencies of the combustion of said fossil fuel and said cluster of hydrogen and oxygen gas.

11. The bond according to claim 9, wherein a combustion of said resulting fuel has an exhaust emission having less pollutants than a combustion of said fossil fuel alone.

12. A combustible gas composed of clusters of hydrogen and oxygen atoms structured according to a general formula H.sub.mO.sub.n wherein m and n have null or positive integer values with the exception that m and n can not be 0 at the same time.

13. The combustible gas according to claim 12, wherein said combustible gas includes atomic hydrogen.

14. The combustible gas according to claim 12, wherein said combustible gas includes atomic oxygen.

15. The combustible gas according to claim 12, wherein the combustible gas instantly melts solids.

16. The combustible gas according to claim 12, wherein the combustible gas is capable of combustion without the need of atmospheric oxygen.

17. The combustible gas according to claim 12, wherein the combustible gas is capable of bonding to combustible fuels via magnetic induction.

18. The combustible gas according to claim 12, wherein said clusters of hydrogen and oxygen atoms structured according to the general formula H.sub.mO.sub.n are magnecules.

19. The combustible gas according to claim 12, wherein when said combustible gas is used as an additive with a combustible fuel, a combustion of said fuel having said additive results in an exhaust emission having less pollutants than a combustion of said fuel alone.

20. The combustible gas according to claim 12, wherein said combustible gas has a varying energy content depending on its use.

21.-50. (canceled)
Description


RELATED APPLICATION

<0001> This patent application is a divisional application of U.S. patent application Ser. No. 10/760,336 filed on Jan. 20, 2004, which is a continuation-in-part application of the U.S. patent application Ser. No. 10/277,841 filed on Oct. 22, 2002, a continuation-in-part application of the U.S. patent application Ser. No. 10/065,111 filed on Sep. 18, 2002, and a continuation-in-part application of the U.S. patent application Ser. No. 09/826,183 filed on Apr. 4, 2001.

BACKGROUND OF THE INVENTION

<0002> 1. Field of the Invention

<0003> This invention is related to equipment or a system and method for the processing of water or distilled water into a gaseous and combustible form of HHO combustible gas produced from water for use in internal combustion engine systems, in other fossil fuel engine systems, in gaseous welding systems and other similar systems. The invention is also related to the form of HHO combustible gas produced from electrolyzers or gas generators connected to such systems.

<0004> The field of this patent application has been the subject of a rather vast number of patents. Among such prior art is U.S. Pat. No. 4,014,777 issued on Mar. 29, 1977 to Yull Brown under the title "Welding"; U.S. Pat. No. 4,081,656 issued on Mar. 28, 1978 to Yull Brown under the title "Arc assisted hydrogen/oxygen welding"; and other similar patents. In accordance with the above patents as well as with the subsequent rather large literature in the field, "Brown gas" is defined as a combustible gas composed of conventional hydrogen and conventional oxygen gases having the exact stochiometric ratio of 2/3 hydrogen and 1/3 oxygen. As we shall see, the combustible gas treated in this invention is dramatically different than the Brown gas.

<0005> The electrolytic equipment and methods for water separation have also been the subject of a vast number of patents, among which is U.S. Pat. No. 4,726,888 issued Feb. 23, 1988 to Michael McCambridge, entitled "Electrolysis Of Water;" U.S. Pat. No. 5,231,954 issued Aug. 3, 1995 to Gene B. Stowe entitled "Hydrogen/Oxygen Fuel Cell"; U.S. Pat. No. 5,401,371 issued Mar. 29, 1995 to Yujiro Oshima entitled "Hydrogen Generator;" and others.

<0006> The novelty of the present invention over preceding prior art is clear and distinct. The prior art deals with equipment and methods for the processing of water into conventional gaseous fuels, that is, fuels possessing the conventional molecular chemical composition or mixture of chemical compositions and is sometimes referred to as "Brown's Gas". By comparison, the present invention provides equipment or a system and related processes (methodology) to produce novel fuel composed of a chemical species beyond that of molecules, that is, HHO combustible gas, which fuel is produced from water using a particular form of electrolyzer.

DESCRIPTION OF THE INVENTION

<0007> This invention deals with the structure, properties and initial applications of a new clean burning combustible gas hereinafter called "HHO gas" produced from distilled water using a special electrolyzer described in detail in the Specifications.

<0008> It will be soon evident that, despite a number of similarities, the HHO gas is dramatically different than the Brown gas or other gases produced by pre-existing electrolyzers. In fact, the latter is a combination of conventional hydrogen and conventional oxygen gases, that is, gases possessing the conventional "molecular" structure, having the exact stochiometric ratio of 2/3 hydrogen and 1/3 oxygen. As we shall see, the HHO gas does not have such an exact stochiometric ratio but instead has basically a structure having a "magnecular" characteristic, including the presence of clusters in macroscopic percentages that cannot be explained via the usual valence bond. As a consequence, the constituents clusters of the Brown Gas and the HHO gas are dramatically different both in percentages as well as in chemical composition, as shown below.

<0009> The first remarkable feature of the special electrolyzers of this invention are their efficiencies. For example, with the use of only 4 Kwh, an electrolyzer rapidly converts water into 55 standard cubic feet (scf) of HHO gas at 35 pounds per square inch (psi). By using the average daily cost of electricity at the rate of $0.08/Kwh, the above efficiency implies the direct cost of the HHO gas of $0.007/scf. It then follows that the HHO gas is cost competitive with respect to existing fuels.

<0010> Under direct inspection, the HHO gas results to be odorless, colorless and lighter than air. A first basic feature in the production of the HHO gas is that there is no evaporation of water at all, and water is directly transmuted into the HHO gas. In any case, the electric energy available in the electrolyzer is basically insufficient for water evaporation.

<0011> This feature alone establishes that the special electrolyzers of this invention produce a "new form of water" which is gaseous and combustible. The main objective of this invention is the first identification on record of the produced unknown chemical composition of the HHO gas, its relationship with the special electrolyzers of this invention, and some initial applications.

<0012> The second important feature of the HHO gas is that it exhibits a "widely varying energy content" in British Thermal Units (BTU), ranging from a relatively cold flame in open air, to large releases of thermal energy depending on its use. This is a direct evidence of fundamental novelty in the chemical structure of the HHO gas.

<0013> In fact, all known fuels have a "fixed energy content" namely, a value of BTU/scf that remains the same for all uses. Also, the variable character of the energy content of the HHO gas is clear evidence that the gas has a magnecular characteristic in its structure, rather than a molecular structure, namely, that its chemical composition includes bonds beyond those of valence type.

<0014> The third important feature of the HHO gas is that it does not require any oxygen for its combustion since it contains in its interior all oxygen needed for that scope. By recalling that other fuels require atmospheric oxygen for their combustion, thus causing a serious environmental problem known as "oxygen depletion," the capability to have combustion without any oxygen depletion renders the HHO gas particularly important on environmental grounds.

<0015> The fourth important feature of the HHO gas is its anomalous adhesion to gases, liquids and solids, as verified experimentally below, thus rendering its use particularly effective as an additive for the enhancement of desired qualities.

<0016> The fifth important feature of the HHO gas is that it does not follow the fundamental PVT law of all conventional gases (namely, those with molecular structure), since the HHO gas begins to deviate from this law at around 150 psi, and it reacquires the water state at a sufficiently high pressures beginning with 250 psi. These aspects are further being investigated for possible development and commercial exploitation.

<0017> The sixth important feature of the HHO gas is that it bonds to gaseous fuels (such as natural gas, magnegas fuel, and other fuels) and liquid fuels (such as diesel, gasoline, liquid petroleum, and other fuels) by significantly improving their thermal content as well as the environmental quality of their exhaust.

<0018> The seventh and most important feature of the HHO gas is that it melts almost instantaneously tungsten, bricks, and other highly refractive substances. In particular, measurements have established the remarkable capability by the HHO gas of reaching almost instantaneously temperatures up to 9,000 degrees C., namely a temperature of the order of that in the Sun chromosphere under which all substances on Earth can be sublimated.

<0019> This invention also involves an electrolyzer for the separation of water, which includes, in one embodiment an electrolysis chamber; an aqueous electrolytic solution comprising water and electrolyte, the aqueous electrolyte solution partially filling the electrolysis chamber such that a gas reservoir region is formed above the aqueous electrolyte solution; two principal electrodes comprising an anode electrode and a cathode electrode, the two principal electrodes being at least partially immersed in the aqueous electrolyte solution; one or more supplemental electrodes at least partially immersed in the aqueous electrolyte solution and interposed between the two principal electrodes wherein the two principal electrodes and the one or more supplemental electrodes are held in a fixed spatial relationship; wherein said electrolyzer produces a combustible gas composed of hydrogen and oxygen atoms and their bonds into chemical species caused by electrons valence bonds and the bond due to attractive forces between opposing magnetic polarities originating in the toroidal polarization of the electron orbitals. Furthermore, the relatively simple design of the electrodes--as rectangular or square metallic shapes allows for the electrodes to be easily replaced. The combustible gas is collected in the gas reservoir region, which is adapted to deliver the gas to the fuel system of an internal combustion engine.

<0020> The invention can be used to improve the fuel efficiency of an internal combustion engine. The method comprises using any of the embodiments of the electrolyzers disclosed herein in conjunction with an internal combustion engine. An electrical potential is applied to the electrodes of the electrolyzer thereby caused the electrolyzer to generate the gas. The gas is then combined with the fuel in the fuel system of the internal combustion engine before the fuel is combusted in the internal combustion engine.

<0021> In still another embodiment of an electrolyzer, an electrolyzer includes an electrolysis chamber which holds an electrolyte solution. The electrolysis chamber mates with a cover at a flange. Preferably, there is a seal between the chamber and cover, which is made from a neoprene gasket, which is placed between the flange and cover. The electrolyte solution may be an aqueous electrolyte solution to produce a mixture of the novel gases; however, to produce the novel inventive gases, distilled water preferably is used.

<0022> The electrolyte partially fills the electrolysis chamber during operation to level such that gas reservoir region is formed above the electrolyte solution. The electrolyzer includes two principle electrodes--anode electrode and cathode electrode--which are at least partially immersed in the electrolyte solution. Anode electrode and cathode electrode slip into grooves in a rack. The rack is placed inside the chamber. One or more supplemental electrodes are also placed in the rack. Again, the supplemental electrodes are at least partially immersed in the aqueous electrolyte solution and interposed between the anode electrode and cathode electrode. Furthermore, anode electrode, cathode electrode, and supplemental electrodes are held in a fixed spatial relationship by rack. Preferably, anode electrode, cathode electrode, and supplemental electrodes are separated by a distance of about 0.25 inches. The one or more supplemental electrodes allow for enhanced and efficient generation of this gas mixture. Preferably, there are from 1 to 50 supplemental electrodes interposed between the two principal electrodes. More preferably, there are from 5 to 30 supplemental electrodes interposed between the two principal electrodes, and most preferably, there are about 15 supplemental electrodes interposed between the two principal electrodes. Preferably, the two principle electrodes are each individually a metallic wire mesh, a metallic plate, or a metallic plate having one or more holes. More preferably, the two principle electrodes are each individually a metallic plate. A suitable metal from which the two principal electrodes are formed, includes but is not limited to, nickel, nickel containing alloys, and stainless steel. The preferred metal for the two electrodes is nickel. The one or more supplemental electrodes are preferably a metallic wire mesh, a metallic plate, or a metallic plate having one or more holes. More preferably, the one or more supplemental electrodes are each individually a metallic plate. A suitable metal from which the two principal electrodes are formed, includes but is not limited to, nickel, nickel containing alloys, and stainless steel. The preferred metal for the two electrodes is nickel.

<0023> During operation of the electrolyzer, a voltage is applied between the anode electrode and cathode electrode which causes the novel gas to be produced and which collects in a gas reservoir region. The gaseous mixture exits the gas reservoir region from through an exit port and ultimately is fed into the fuel system of an internal combustion engine. An electrical contact to anode electrode is made through a contactor and electrical contact to cathode electrode is made by another contactor. The contactors are preferably made from metal and are slotted with channels such that the contactors fit over the anode electrode and cathode electrode. The contactors are attached to rods, which slip through holes in the cover. Preferable the holes are threaded and the rods are threaded rods so that rods screw into the holes. The contactors also hold the rack in place since the anode electrode and cathode electrode are held in place by channels and by grooves in the rack. Accordingly, when the cover is bolted to the chamber, the rack is held at the bottom of the chamber. The electrolyzer optionally includes a pressure relief valve and a level sensor. The pressure relief valve allows the gaseous mixture in the gas reservoir to be vented before a dangerous pressure buildup can be formed. The level sensor ensures that an alert is sounded and the flow of gas to the vehicle fuel system is stopped when the electrolyte solution gets too low. At such time when the electrolyte solution is low, addition electrolyte solution is added through a water fill port. The electrolyzer may also include a pressure gauge so that the pressure in the reservoir may be monitored. Finally, the electrolyzer optionally includes one or more fins which remove heat from the electrolyzer.

<0024> In a variation of an electrolyzer, a first group of the one or more supplemental electrodes is connected to the anode electrode with a first metallic conductor and a second group of the one or more supplemental electrodes is connected to the cathode electrode with a second metallic conductor. The anode electrode, cathode electrode, and supplemental electrodes are held to the rack by a holder rod, which slips through channels in the rack and the holes in the electrodes. The rack is preferably fabricated from a high dielectric plastic such as PVC, polyethylene or polypropylene. Furthermore, the rack holds the anode electrode, cathode electrode, and supplemental electrodes in a fixed spatial relationship. Preferably, the fixed spatial relationship of the two principal electrodes and the one or more supplemental electrodes is such that the electrodes (two principal and one or more supplemental) are essentially parallel and each electrode is separated from an adjacent electrode by a distance from about 0.15 to about 0.35 inches. More preferably, each electrode is separated from an adjacent electrode by a distance from about 0.2 to about 0.3 inches, and most preferably about 0.25 inches. The fixed spatial relationship is accomplished by a rack that holds the two principal electrodes and the one or more supplemental electrodes in the fixed spatial relationship. The electrodes sit in grooves in the rack which define the separations between each electrode. Furthermore, the electrodes are removable from the rack so that the electrodes or the rack may be changed if necessary. Finally, since the rack and anode electrode and cathode electrode are held in place as set forth above, the supplemental electrodes are also held in place because they are secured to the rack by the holder rod.

<0025> During operation, the novel combustible gas is formed by the electrolysis of the electrolyte solution in the electrolyzer. The electrolyzer is connected to a collection tank by a pressure line. The gases are collected and temporarily stored in the collection tank. The collection tank optionally includes a pressure relief valve to guard against any dangerous pressure build up. The collection tank is connected to a solenoid by a pressure line. The solenoid is in turn connected by a pressure line to an engine intake manifold. Optionally, a flash arrestor is incorporated in the pressure line to prevent a flame from propagating in a tube. Furthermore, a pressure line also includes an orifice to regulate the flow of the gaseous mixture into the intake manifold. The size of this orifice will depend on the size of the engine. For example, an orifice diameter of about 0.04 is suitable for a 1 liter engine, about 0.06 inches is suitable for a 2.5 liter engine, and about 0.075 inches is suitable for a V8 engine. The applied voltage to the electrolyzer is provided through the solenoid by an electrolyzer battery. When the pressure in the collection tank drops below about 25 psi, solenoid switches and a voltage of about 12 V is applied between the anode electrode and cathode electrode. A battery isolator allows for charging of a vehicle battery and electrolyzer battery by an alternator while keeping the electrolyzer battery and vehicle battery electrically isolated. Furthermore, the solenoid is powered by the vehicle battery when the main switch is activated. A gas mixer solenoid is also powered by the vehicle battery and opens when the gas mixture is provided to the intake manifold. The solenoid also receives a feedback from the level sensor which causes the solenoid to shut off the gas flow if the electrolyte solution level in the electrolyzer gets too low. Finally, when the method and apparatus of the present invention are used in a vehicle, the operation of the vehicle's oxygen sensor needs to be adjusted to take into account the additional oxygen that is added to the fuel system from the electrolyzer. Normally, if the oxygen sensor senses more oxygen, the vehicle's computer would determine that the engine is running lean and open up the fuel injectors to a richer fuel mixture. This is undesirable and would cause poor fuel economy.

<0026> In another embodiment of the present invention, a method for increasing the fuel efficiency of an internal combustion engine is provided. The method of this embodiment utilizes the electrolyzer described above in conjunction with an internal combustion engine. Specifically, the method comprises providing an electrolyzer equipment described above or as further described below in other novel embodiments; applying an electrical potential between the electrodes wherein the novel combustible gas described herein is generated and collected in the gas reservoir region and wherein the electrolyzer is adapted to deliver the combustible gas to the fuel system of an internal combustion engine; and combining the combustible gas produced with fuel in the fuel system of an internal combustion engine. The step of adjusting the operation of an oxygen sensor as set forth above is also provided.

<0027> In another embodiment, an electrolyzer or gas generator is incorporated into a welding/cutting torch system or another type of equipment/engine system. This system comprises an electrolyte reservoir, having a top and a bottom, containing electrolytic fluid therein. The fluid herein is preferably water. The electrolyte reservoir comprises a broken or permeable plate, which is sealably and circumferentially positioned around a top end of the electrolyte reservoir. Plate functions to release gas pressure within the electrolyte reservoir when exceeding a pre-determined safety level.

<0028> The self-producing hydrogen and oxygen gas generating system further comprises a pump, preferably an electromagnetic pump, which is connected at one distal end to the bottom of the electrolyte reservoir. Pump is connected at an opposite distal end to at least one hydrogen and oxygen electrolyzer/generator containing an electrical conductor therein. The electrical conductor is electrically connected on one distal end to an electrical ground. The opposite distal end of the electrical conductor is electrically connected to one distal end of a pressure controller. The opposite distal end of the electrical conductor is electrically connected to a power source. Pump functions to circulate electrolytic fluid from the electrolyte reservoir through at least one hydrogen and oxygen electrolyzer/generator through a radiator back into the electrolyte reservoir via a gas pipe. The radiator functions to cool the generated hydrogen and oxygen gas before returning to the electrolyte reservoir.

<0029> The pressure controller is connected to the electrolyte reservoir and monitors the pressure therein. When gas pressure within the electrolyte reservoir exceeds a pre-determined level, electrical current is terminated to the electrical conductor contained within the hydrogen and oxygen generator thereby ceasing production of hydrogen and oxygen gas. When gas pressure within the electrolyte reservoir drops below a pre-determined level, electrical current is connected to the electrical conductor contained within the hydrogen and oxygen generator thereby commencing production of hydrogen and oxygen gas. The pre-selected level is less than the pre-selected level required to cause a pressure release through plate.

<0030> This self-producing on-demand hydrogen and oxygen generating system further comprises a non-return valve connected at one end to an upper end of the electrolyte reservoir below plate. The non-return valve is further connected to a dryer/filter means or tank at an opposite distal end.

<0031> System further comprises another filter/dryer means or tank in fluid communication with one end of the electrolyte reservoir above plate and further connected at an opposite distal end to another non-retum valve via gas line, which is connected at an opposite end to another filter/dryer means or tank.

<0032> System further comprises a decompression valve in fluid communication at one end to the top end of the electrolyte reservoir and further being in fluid communication with the gas pipe, which in turn is connected to radiator.

<0033> The welding system further comprises a microprocessor controlled D.C. amperage regulator adapted to regulate the D.C. amperage from the power source to the hydrogen and oxygen generator. A first microprocessor controlled cut-off switch is adapted to terminate the power source to the welder in response to a malfunction of the pump.

<0034> A second microprocessor controlled cut-off switch is adapted to terminate the power source to the welder in response to an insufficient electrolyte solution condition within the electrolyte reservoir. A microprocessor controlled liquid crystal display is adapted to display operating statistics regarding the welding system, such statistics to include hours of operation, amperage, indicator lights and pressure gauge readings. The liquid crystal display receives input from a plurality of locations within the system.

<0035> A microprocessor controlled polarity change system is adapted to change the polarity of the electrical conductor located within the hydrogen and oxygen generator. A microprocessor controlled cool-down system is adapted to operate a generator fan and the pump wherein operation of the fan and the pump continue throughout a cool-down stage following manual shut-off of the welder.

<0036> The produced gas or HHO gas is routed from the dryer means to the final gas reservoir tank. Dryer means and are only exemplary. It is understood that a single unit may be designed to effectively accomplish the same objective. The gas is then supplied on-demand to the engine or in this case, the welding equipment, through gas line and hydrogen flash suppressor check valve (non-return valve) and control valve.

<0037> As mentioned above, a flame from said produced gas or species of hydrogen and oxygen, from said electrolyzer can instantly melt solids without the use of atmospheric oxygen. The produced gas can also be used as a fuel without the use of atmospheric oxygen, and can bond to other substances via magnetic induction.

<0038> A bond is created between a fossil fuel and a combustible gas composed by a combination of hydrogen and oxygen atoms with toroidal polarization of their orbitals. The bond originates from the induced magnetic polarization of at least some of the orbitals of said fuel and the consequential attraction between opposing magnetic polarities. The combustion exhaust of the resulting fuel is cleaner than that of said fossil fuels. Further, the resulting fuel has contained more thermal energy than that of said fossil fuels.

BRIEF DESCRIPTION OF THE DRAWINGS

<0039> FIG. 1a depicts a conventional hydrogen atom with its distribution of electron orbitals in all space directions, thus forming a sphere;

<0040> FIG. 1b depicts the same hydrogen atom wherein its electron is polarized to orbit within a toroid resulting in the creation of a magnetic field along the symmetry axis of said toroid;

<0041> FIG. 2a depicts a conventional hydrogen molecule with some of the rotations caused by temperature;

<0042> FIG. 2b depicts the same conventional molecule in which the orbitals are polarized into toroids, thus causing two magnetic field in opposite directions since the hydrogen molecule is diamagnetic;

<0043> FIG. 3a depict the conventional water molecules H--O--H in which the dimers H--O and O--H form an angle of 105 degrees, and in which the orbitals of the two H atoms are polarized in toroids perpendicular to the H--O--H plane;

<0044> FIG. 3b depicts the central species of this invention consisting of the water molecule in which one valence bond has been broken, resulting in the collapse of one hydrogen atom against the other;

<0045> FIG. 4a depicts a polarized conventional hydrogen molecule;

<0046> FIG. 4b depicts a main species of this invention, the bond between two hydrogen atoms caused by the attractive forces between opposing magnetic polarities originating in the toroidal polarizations of the orbitals;

<0047> FIG. 5 depicts a new chemical species identified for the first time in this invention consisting of two dimers H--O of the water molecule in their polarized form as occurring in the water molecule, with consequential magnetic bond, plus an isolated and polarized hydrogen atom also magnetically bonded to the preceding atoms;

<0048> FIG. 6 depicts mass spectrometric scans of the HHO gas of this invention;

<0049> FIG. 7 depicts infrared scans of the conventional hydrogen gas;

<0050> FIG. 8 depicts infrared scans of the conventional oxygen gas;

<0051> FIG. 9 depicts infrared scans of the HHO gas of this invention;

<0052> FIG. 10 depicts the mass spectrography of the commercially available diesel fuel;

<0053> FIG. 11 depicts the mass spectrography of the same diesel fuel of the preceding FIG. 10 with the HHO gas of this invention occluded in its interior via bubbling;

<0054> FIG. 12 depicts an analytic detection of the hydrogen content of the HHO gas of this invention;

<0055> FIG. 13 depicts an analytic detection of the oxygen content of the HHO gas of this invention;

<0056> FIG. 14 depicts an analytic detection of impurities contained in the HHO gas of this invention;

<0057> FIG. 15 depicts the anomalous blank of the detector since it shows residual substances following the removal of the gas;

<0058> FIG. 16 depicts a scan confirming the presence in HHO of the basic species with 2 amu representing H--H and H.times.H, and the presence of a clean species with 5 amu that can only be interpreted as H--H.times.H--H.times.H;

<0059> FIG. 17 depicts a scan which provides clear evidence of a species with mass 16 amu that in turn confirms the presence in HHO of isolated atomic oxygen, and which confirms the presence in HHO of the species H--O with 17 amu and the species with 18 amu consisting of H--O--H and H.times.H--O;

<0060> FIG. 18 depicts a scan which establishes the presence in HHO of the species with 33 amu representing O--OXH or O--O--H, and 34 amu representing O--H.times.O--H and similar configurations;

<0061> FIG. 19 is an exploded view of an electrolyzer;

<0062> FIG. 20 is top view of a variation of an electrolyzer in which one group of supplemental electrodes are connected to the anode electrode and a second group of supplemental electrodes are connected to the cathode electrode;

<0063> FIG. 21 is a perspective view of the electrode plate securing mechanism for the electrolyzer of FIG. 20;

<0064> FIG. 22 is a plumbing schematic showing the integration of an electrolyzer when applied to a vehicle;

<0065> FIG. 23 is an electrical schematic showing the integration of an electrolyzer when applied to a vehicle; and

<0066> FIG. 24 is a schematic representation of a mixed gas electrolyzer applied to a welder system.

DETAILED DESCRIPTION OF THE INVENTION

<0067> A summary of the scientific representation of the preceding main features of the HHO gas is outlined below without formulae for simplicity of understanding by a broader audience.

<0068> Where the HHO gas originates from distilled water using a special electrolytic process described hereinafter, it is generally believed that such a gas is composed of 2/3 (or 66.66% in volume) hydrogen H2 and 1/2 (or 33.33% in volume) oxygen O2.

<0069> A fundamental point of this invention is the evidence that such a conventional mixture of H2 and O2 gases absolutely cannot represent the above features of the HHO gas, thus establishing the novel existence in the produced inventive HHO gas.

<0070> The above occurrence is established beyond any possible doubt by comparing the performance of the HHO gas with that of a mixture of 66.66% of H2 and 33.33% of O2. There is simply no condition whatsoever under which, the latter gas can instantly cut tungsten or melt bricks as done by the HHO gas, therein supporting the novelty in the chemical structure of the produced HHO gas.

<0071> To begin the identification of the novelty in the HHO gas we note that the special features of the HHO gas, such as the capability of instantaneous melting tungsten and bricks, require that HHO contains not only "atomic hydrogen" (that is, individual H atoms without valence bond to other atoms as in FIG. 1a), but also "magnetically polarized atomic hydrogen", that is, hydrogen atoms whose electrons are polarized to rotate in a toroid, rather than in all space directions, as per FIG. 1b.

<0072> It should be indicated that the Brown gas does assumes the existence of "atomic hydrogen". However, calculations have established that such a feature is grossly insufficient to explain all the feature of the HHO gas, as it will be evidence in the following. The fundamental novelty of this invention is, therefore, the use of "polarized atomic hydrogen" as depicted in FIG. 1b.
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cosmik debris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. It doesn't have to work to get a patent.
And patent applications don't have to be truthful.

Face it, you fell for a scam, a 50 year old scam.
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philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. Are you saying that they scamed the patent office?
I don't think they tend to give out patents for things they know or think are scams.
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cosmik debris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. You obviously don't know shit about patents.
But there are a lot of things you don't know shit about.

The patent office does not evaluate the veracity of claims or the effectiveness of the device proposed for patent.
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #42
61. Ooooh... your avatar.... so stern and well ya know....
Note from Dineh Torres, NEN Publications Director and writer:

From: NEN, Vol. 4, No. 11, March 1997, p. 1. New Energy News (NEN) copyright 1997 by Fusion Information Center, Inc.
COPYING NOT ALLOWED without written permission.
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

We received the following letter from Stanley Meyer in complaint of an article published in the December 1996 issue of New Energy News. This NEN "article" was a four sentence summary of a newspaper article published in the London Sunday Times (which was sent to us by Mark Goldes, he did not write any of it). There were no comments made by NEN about the content of the Times article. However, I do apologize fully for the title of the article. The master copy of that issue is being changed and subsequent copies will be printed with the title "Legal Problems for WFC ."

As far as the other points that Meyer mentions in his letter, the summary in NEN made no implications concerning the veracity or market- ability of his Water Fuel Cell technology, since it was merely a summary of a news item. In fact, the Times' mention of "expert witnesses" was printed in quotation marks because we do know how expert some witnesses can be, from our own Cold Fusion experiences. We had no indication of any appeal being made by Meyer, any court order that had been made, any patentability questions, or about any independent test evaluations, because we have not received information about any of this from Meyer's WFC company until now. A complete copy of the WFC Public Notice (12 pages) will be made available to anyone requesting it and sending a Self-Addressed Stamped Envelope ($.55 postage) to the NEN office. In the Public Notice, WFC explains the entire issue.

We are truly sorry that Mr. Meyer has taken such offence at our summary, and we note here that the information that WFC has just sent to NEN indicates that WFC has issued a formal complaint against the London Sunday Times concerning the article. NEN and the Institute for New Energy do not wish to denigrate any serious inventor or scientist who is working on New Energy solutions, and we will continue to do all we can to support their efforts. To that end we need the input of these researchers so we can more exactly represent their endeavors. Our best wishes to Mr. Meyer and his company in their legal problems and in their continued research and development of the Water Fuel Cell.



RE: Article titled "Fuel For Fraud or Vice Versa"

Courtesy of Mark Goldes
Contents for December 1996 issue
Subject: WFC Notice To Retract

Dear Sir,

We are enclosing: WFC technical Supplemental Report (issue No. 11A, pages 1 thru 12), titled WFC setting Industry Standard denoting WFC "Mode of Operability" to cause "Particle oscillation as an energy generator" by way of pulsating electrical stress to instantly convert water droplets into thermal explosive energy (gtnt) and subscribed therein many independent governmental and university laboratories test-reports confirming WFC technology of Inventions; WFC Public Notice To Inform (pages 1 thru 12), Supreme Court of Ohio Disciplinary Counsel filing of events denoting therein WFC charges of judicial default by presiding Judge, Corzine, in preventing WFC Evidence of Records to be submitted to the Fayette County Court by switching off the court audio sound recording equipment; The German Association of Vacuum Field Energy correspondence letter to WFC by Dr. H.A. Nieper ... stating "I refer to the tested overunity effect of your (WFC) technology" ... "We will present there (Expo 2000 World exhibition, Hannover, Germany) the modalities of the conversion of Vacuum Field Energy on which your (WFC) procedure is based on"; and a copy of New Energy News article titled "Fuel For Fraud or Vice Versa," page 17, as per WFC Evidence of Records; and that,

WFC Major Complaints Against Mark Goldes Article

1) that the article was unbalance as it did not mention the fact that WFC is appealing against the decision of the presiding Judge on the grounds of judicial default; and that,
2) that the article wrongly implies that the court order WFC to stop developing the Water Fuel Injection System; and that,
3) that the article wrongly implies that the WFC technology of inventions has no technological merit of truth; and that,
4) that the article wrongly implies that the Sunday Times Journalist, Tony Edwards, has the technical expertise in the field of physics and chemistry background to properly evaluate WFC tech-base; and that,
5) that the article wrongly implies that no independent test evaluation reports confirming the "Mode of Operability" of WFC technology exist in the scientific community, worldwide; and that,
6) that the article wrongly implies that the U.S. Patent Office has not the ability to rule on the technical merits of issued U.S. Patents, as so granted to inventor, Stanley A. Meyer, under 35 USC 101 ... as so duly noted in context as so subscribed in attached WFC documents titled WFC Public Notice To Inform as in reference to WFC Technical Supplemental Report; and that,
7) that the article wrongly implies that the Plaintiff's three experts had the necessary scientific background to properly evaluate the various stages of the tech-development of the WFC technology; and that,
8) that the article wrongly implies that WFC process of particle oscillation as an energy generator by way of pulsating electrical stress to cause instant conversion of water droplets into thermal explosive energy (gtnt) is nothing more than conventional electrolysis; and that,

WFC Notice To Retract and WFC Cease & Desist Order Hereby Given

Due to the New Energy News article above distorted and unbalance bias statements, WFC hereby demand that The New Energy News Editor, Hal Fox, print an article in the next issue of the New Energy News with regard to the confirmation of WFC tech-base by the many independent Governmental and University testing laboratories, worldwide, as herein so duly noted... demon- strating the "Mode of Operability of using water as a new fuel source, as so subscribed in above attached WFC Technical Supplemental Report ... as so further elucidated by the enclosed attached German Association of Vacuum Field Energy letter to WFC by Dr. H.A. Neiper confirming the tested overunity effect of WFC technology, as herein to be included therein WFC charges of judicial default as so outlined above against the presiding judge; as herein WFC Notice To Comply is herein given; and that,



One of Mr. Meyer's WFC systems as shown in his New Release, aviable from WFC, Inc.

It is hereby to be noted that above said WFC documents were in the public domain prior to the publishing date of said New Energy News article. Concealing information to promote public deception is punishable both by fine and imprisonment, or both, as so specified under U.S. Federal Security Laws To Inform. FedEx tracking No. 2092559394.

Respectfully Submitted For Compliance,
Stanley A. Meyer, Inventor
Water Fuel Cell, 3792 Broadway
Grove City, Ohio 43123

Return to the INE Main Page
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cosmik debris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #61
71. It's been 12 years since that article was published
And yet no major manufacturer has stepped forward to take advantage of this great profit opportunity????? I'll bet you have a handy conspiracy theory to explain that.

And remember his patents are 25 years old. Why do you suppose that it hasn't become the hottest item in the auto parts store? I'll bet you have a handy conspiracy theory to explain that too.

And did you notice that no independent third party testing has ever been done? I'll bet you have a handy conspiracy theory to explain that too.

I just have to wonder if you ever read ANYTHING that you don't believe.

I'm sure that if I met you in a crowd I would recognize you right away. You are the one with "SUCKER" tattooed on your forehead.

:rofl:
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #71
81. ...
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cosmik debris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #81
84. LOL! gotcha
After 25 years of trying to market this POS only a few real suckers are buying.

Don't you feel silly now?
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #84
86. What I truly feel, in all honesty,
is pity for you. Stan's last words to his brother in 1998 were "they poisoned me". Two Belgian investors had come to see what Stan had to offer them. His legacy and scientific discovery will live on and change the world despite all your silliness and name calling. It is getting a bit old. Did you finish school? Curious.
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cosmik debris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #86
95. The free market has rejected this idea FOR 25 YEARS
Edited on Sat Jul-19-08 07:10 PM by cosmik debris
And you can't rebut that argument with another youtube video.

25 years of rejection by the free market.

25 years of rejection by the major manufacturers.

25 years of rejection by the scientific community.

25 years of rejection by the driving public.

25 years of failure to live up to the promises.

And the only people who bought it are the people who can't tell the difference between science and a sales pitch.

So it's not just me that thinks you are goofy. There is a huge majority of the potential consumers who won't give this "invention" a second thought. And it's been that way for 25 YEARS!

Of course you are welcome to spend as much as you want to on bogus science, but a wise person would spend a little time listening to the other side of the story. Especially when the other side is so overwhelmingly persuasive.
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #95
97. Yes, that is changing now, I hope you will open your mind and
Edited on Sat Jul-19-08 07:43 PM by 4MoronicYears
get on board with what is coming down the pipe... of course, depending on your willingness to accept that new discoveries can still be made, your mileage may vary.
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cosmik debris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #97
100. You still think this is a "new discovery"?
Even though the patents are 25 years old?

Even thought the "inventor" has been pushing it for years?

The only new part is the sales pitch.

The rest of ti is as old as the hills.
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #41
64. Phil, this guy gives a pretty good explanation of what the
mysteriously diceased Stan Meyer was able to accomplish in his 20 year project. Please check it out and see what you think about this NEW approach to fracturing water.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-WO-sorNkA&NR=1
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lfairban Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-08 10:33 PM
Response to Original message
11. New slant on old science.
21th century Alchemistry: Turn water into gasoline.
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lfairban Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-08 11:00 PM
Response to Original message
13. Food for thought.
Just to give tin and Phantom a better target, I started thinking about this type of system in one of my introspective brainstorming periods.

You could store the H2 and O2 gas for a performance boost when the car really needs it like highway on ramps and stoplight launches. That way you could design the car with a smaller engine and still get acceptable performance. Just trigger the port into the manifold or carburetor or something, kind of like you do with nitrous. The problem then is that you would need to carry around a tank of water which means added weight.

Also, getting all that current out of the alternator is going to cost as much as it saves, ergo the thermodynamic absurdity of the whole exercise.

My premise is based on an assumption about regenerative breaking that I suspect is true, but I am not sure of: The reason that regenerative breaking only recovers a few percent of the energy is because the batteries cannot take in the current fast enough. All batteries especially Lead Acid batteries have this problem, they charge better slower.

Now for the water: You don't need to carry a tank of water with you because there is water coming out of the tailpipe all the time. Just use a heat sink system to condense some of it and pump it into a storage tank.

Now that you have a continuous supply of water, use the electricity from the regenerative breaking, which would otherwise be wasted as heat to split it into H2 and O2. Pump the gas into a cylinder where it will wait to boost the power of the engine when necessary.

Could it work?
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tinrobot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-08 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. That might work....
But the amount of water coming out the tailpipe is still not that much, and collecting then pumping the water to a storage tank would take power.

The regenerative braking problem could be solved more easily using capacitors that hold the charge until the batteries can accept it.

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lfairban Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. I'm not sure you can bank on Ultracapacitors.
I was about to by stock in Maxwell, but my financial adviser said the company was not rated that high. It is not a pure play. The problem is the cost. I wanted to get a 36V 400 F UC for my electro assist bike, until I found out the cost. It would be cheaper to just buy more batteries. The price might drop, I just saw something on ebay for $55, 1500 F @ 2.7V. I could hook up ten in series for 150 F @ 27V for $550. That might be acceptable on an experimental basis.

The UCs may get beat out by the nanophospate Li-on batteries that can charge and discharge much faster. I think it is because of increased surface area of the electrode.
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 05:22 AM
Response to Reply #13
19. You should watch this.... as well as several others.
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lfairban Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #19
25. . . . and your point?
Edited on Fri Jul-18-08 01:50 PM by lfairban
This is simple electrolysis which I am sure many people will tell you has been done for over 100 years. This is nothing new!

There was no sound with the video and no accompanying data, other that what I assume is a voltage reading from the meter. OK, now how much current was it requiring and what was the overall consumption of electrical energy per mole of water converted to H2 and O2?

Do you have any technical understanding of what we are trying to tell you?

Do you even know what a mole is? (No, I am not talking about a small mouse like rodent.)

The video gives no evidence that this process is going to be of any use in improving gas mileage.

I did this with the transformer current from my electric train set WHEN I WAS ELEVEN YEARS OLD!

Did I mention that this is nothing new?
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. Hang on. Is this something new?...
:evilgrin:

Sid
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. I did it when I was 8 with a chemistry set. I also chromed a coin
with a flashlight battery. I also won the 8th grade science fair and my project went to the science museum in the city. Do you have any idea how a voice can shatter glass??? Do you know what resonant frequencies are and what they do to to matter??

Electrolysis is not new, but efficient hydrogen production using energy that resonates water molecules is new and has been around for 20 years or so.

http://www.waterfuelcell.org/concept.html
The strong voltage force was used to strip electrons to weaken the electrostatic force that holds the water molecule together.

This is only possible because electron flow was inhibited.

Restricting electron flow and using pulses gave Stanley the following advantages over electrolysis:

* The gap between the electrodes could be kept to a minimum (around 1mm). This was achieved because arcing could not occur with restricted electron flow.
* keeps voltage high across the electrodes and prevents it from dropping to nothing.


Imagine the force of having this high voltage field with electron flow restricted. The water molecule would be pretty stressed out!

Maybe another way to visualize what I am saying Is imagine a magnetic force, as the magnet gets closer and closer it increases in strength. If the water molecule was effected by a magnetic force it would be ripped apart but the water molecule is not. (so it is useless using a magnetic force)

The Water molecule only reacts to a voltage/electrostatic force. That is why Stanley Meyer needed to restrict electron flow, if you bring a high voltage field closer and closer together, it will get to a point when it will arc (we don't want this). when it arcs electron flow has occurred and all that attracting force is lost. Relating this to the example above, it would be if the magnetic force was turned off.

A Point to Ponder: How can there be an arc, if there are no electrons to leak?

We still may need a little electron flow. That is why we need to experiment.

Stanley Meyer's Discovery

This is my understanding at present and is subject to change, although some WFC experimenters have also agreed with me on some of the things I am presenting.

Stanley Meyer found a way to use Voltage (electrostatic force) so that hydrogen and oxygen could be released on demand, serve our energy needs, and be sustained with very minimal power requirements

http://www.waterfuelcell.org/concept.html
My simplified explanation of the material explains this process.
Stanley Meyer Identified two stages of gas production these are

* Electrical Polarization process (Minimal Gas Yield)
* Resonant gas production (High Gas Yield)









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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 11:11 AM
Response to Original message
22. Education via Youtube. Always a winner. LOL nt
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #22
32. Try the USPTO instead of the Youtube thingy... "you" might get
a "real" education.

http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PG01&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=%2220060075683%22.PGNR.&OS=DN/20060075683&RS=DN/20060075683
<0009> The first remarkable feature of the special electrolyzers of this invention are their efficiencies. For example, with the use of only 4 Kwh, an electrolyzer rapidly converts water into 55 standard cubic feet (scf) of HHO gas at 35 pounds per square inch (psi). By using the average daily cost of electricity at the rate of $0.08/Kwh, the above efficiency implies the direct cost of the HHO gas of $0.007/scf. It then follows that the HHO gas is cost competitive with respect to existing fuels.

<0010> Under direct inspection, the HHO gas results to be odorless, colorless and lighter than air. A first basic feature in the production of the HHO gas is that there is no evaporation of water at all, and water is directly transmuted into the HHO gas. In any case, the electric energy available in the electrolyzer is basically insufficient for water evaporation.

<0011> This feature alone establishes that the special electrolyzers of this invention produce a "new form of water" which is gaseous and combustible. The main objective of this invention is the first identification on record of the produced unknown chemical composition of the HHO gas, its relationship with the special electrolyzers of this invention, and some initial applications.

<0012> The second important feature of the HHO gas is that it exhibits a "widely varying energy content" in British Thermal Units (BTU), ranging from a relatively cold flame in open air, to large releases of thermal energy depending on its use. This is a direct evidence of fundamental novelty in the chemical structure of the HHO gas.

<0013> In fact, all known fuels have a "fixed energy content" namely, a value of BTU/scf that remains the same for all uses. Also, the variable character of the energy content of the HHO gas is clear evidence that the gas has a magnecular characteristic in its structure, rather than a molecular structure, namely, that its chemical composition includes bonds beyond those of valence type.

<0014> The third important feature of the HHO gas is that it does not require any oxygen for its combustion since it contains in its interior all oxygen needed for that scope. By recalling that other fuels require atmospheric oxygen for their combustion, thus causing a serious environmental problem known as "oxygen depletion," the capability to have combustion without any oxygen depletion renders the HHO gas particularly important on environmental grounds.

<0015> The fourth important feature of the HHO gas is its anomalous adhesion to gases, liquids and solids, as verified experimentally below, thus rendering its use particularly effective as an additive for the enhancement of desired qualities.
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #32
44. whatever, if you want to believe that water will give you go juice. knock yourself out.
I, on the other hand, will continue to believe in the laws of thermodynamics.

Have fun.
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #44
65. The laws of thermodynamics do not state that there can be
Edited on Sat Jul-19-08 02:15 PM by 4MoronicYears
no interaction between quantum electrodynamics and science experiments. I didn't see where they made that claim anywhere.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-WO-sorNkA&NR=1
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #65
117. fine, then open up a dealership and make a million. Until then the laws of nature still apply.
You will be blocked because of your apparent insanity.

have a nice day.
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bhikkhu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 07:53 PM
Response to Original message
33. Here is the really stupid part:
"...And it's not new. Based on old "forgotten" US Patents we have developed devices that use a little electricity out of your car/truck battery, to separate water into a gas called "HHO" (2 parts Hydrogen + 1 Oxygen). HHO, also called Brown's Gas, Water-Fuel or Hydroxy, burns beautifully and provides TONS of energy - while the end product is just WATER!"

http://water4gas.com/2books.htm?hop=woracal

Anyone who took high school chemistry could see the problem with that description, if all the previous on the website were not enough. Separating a molecule into its aggregate parts and then recombining them into the original molecule does not produce energy. And you could say "well, they just messed up the description", but looking up "Brown's gas" they did get it right ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxyhydrogen ) .What they miss is the initial energy inputs to create the gas from water, which will always be greater than the energy netted from the next step transforming the gas back into water. The laws of thermodynamics apply.
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. Here's an even more stupid part, people who cannot read what
Edited on Fri Jul-18-08 08:11 PM by 4MoronicYears
is contained in a patent claim/explanation. Try reading more and spouting less. You'll get much better traction and probably better mileage.


http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PG01&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=%2220060075683%22.PGNR.&OS=DN/20060075683&RS=DN/20060075683

United States Patent Application 20060075683
Kind Code A1
Klein; Dennis J. ; et al. April 13, 2006
Apparatus and method for the conversion of water into a new gaseous and combustible form and the combustible gas formed thereby

Abstract

An electrolyzer which decomposes distilled water into a new fuel composed of hydrogen, oxygen and their molecular and magnecular bonds, called HHO. The electrolyzer can be used to provide the new combustible gas as an additive to combustion engine fuels or in flame or other generating equipment such as torches and welders. The new combustible gas is comprised of clusters of hydrogen and oxygen atoms structured according to a general formula H.sub.mO.sub.n wherein m and n have null or positive integer values with the exception that m and n can not be 0 at the same time, and wherein said combustible gas has a varying energy content depending on its use.
Inventors: Klein; Dennis J.; (Belleair, FL) ; Santilli; Ruggero Maria; (Palm Harbor, FL)
Correspondence Name and Address:

DENNIS G. LAPOINTE;LAPOINTE LAW GROUP, PL
PO BOX 1294
TARPON SPRINGS
FL
34688-1294
US

Serial No.: 274736
Series Code: 11
Filed: November 15, 2005

U.S. Current Class: 48/197FM; 204/268
U.S. Class at Publication: 048/197.0FM; 204/268
Intern'l Class: C10L 3/00 20060101 C10L003/00
Claims


1.-8. (canceled)

9. A bond between a fossil fuel and a combustible gas, said combustible gas being composed of clusters of hydrogen and oxygen atoms with a toroidal polarization of their orbitals and consequential magnetic field along the symmetry axis of said toroidal polarizations, said bond originating from the induced magnetic polarization of at least some of the atomic orbitals of said fuel and the consequential attraction between opposing magnetic polarities wherein said combustible gas has a varying energy content depending on its use and said bonded fossil fuel and combustible gas has a varying energy content depending on its use.

10. The bond according to claim 9, wherein an energy efficiency of a combustion of the resulting fuel is greater than a sum of the separate efficiencies of the combustion of said fossil fuel and said cluster of hydrogen and oxygen gas.

11. The bond according to claim 9, wherein a combustion of said resulting fuel has an exhaust emission having less pollutants than a combustion of said fossil fuel alone.

12. A combustible gas composed of clusters of hydrogen and oxygen atoms structured according to a general formula H.sub.mO.sub.n wherein m and n have null or positive integer values with the exception that m and n can not be 0 at the same time.

13. The combustible gas according to claim 12, wherein said combustible gas includes atomic hydrogen.

14. The combustible gas according to claim 12, wherein said combustible gas includes atomic oxygen.

15. The combustible gas according to claim 12, wherein the combustible gas instantly melts solids.

16. The combustible gas according to claim 12, wherein the combustible gas is capable of combustion without the need of atmospheric oxygen.

17. The combustible gas according to claim 12, wherein the combustible gas is capable of bonding to combustible fuels via magnetic induction.

18. The combustible gas according to claim 12, wherein said clusters of hydrogen and oxygen atoms structured according to the general formula H.sub.mO.sub.n are magnecules.

19. The combustible gas according to claim 12, wherein when said combustible gas is used as an additive with a combustible fuel, a combustion of said fuel having said additive results in an exhaust emission having less pollutants than a combustion of said fuel alone.

20. The combustible gas according to claim 12, wherein said combustible gas has a varying energy content depending on its use.

21.-50. (canceled)
Description


RELATED APPLICATION

<0001> This patent application is a divisional application of U.S. patent application Ser. No. 10/760,336 filed on Jan. 20, 2004, which is a continuation-in-part application of the U.S. patent application Ser. No. 10/277,841 filed on Oct. 22, 2002, a continuation-in-part application of the U.S. patent application Ser. No. 10/065,111 filed on Sep. 18, 2002, and a continuation-in-part application of the U.S. patent application Ser. No. 09/826,183 filed on Apr. 4, 2001.

BACKGROUND OF THE INVENTION

<0002> 1. Field of the Invention

<0003> This invention is related to equipment or a system and method for the processing of water or distilled water into a gaseous and combustible form of HHO combustible gas produced from water for use in internal combustion engine systems, in other fossil fuel engine systems, in gaseous welding systems and other similar systems. The invention is also related to the form of HHO combustible gas produced from electrolyzers or gas generators connected to such systems.

<0004> The field of this patent application has been the subject of a rather vast number of patents. Among such prior art is U.S. Pat. No. 4,014,777 issued on Mar. 29, 1977 to Yull Brown under the title "Welding"; U.S. Pat. No. 4,081,656 issued on Mar. 28, 1978 to Yull Brown under the title "Arc assisted hydrogen/oxygen welding"; and other similar patents. In accordance with the above patents as well as with the subsequent rather large literature in the field, "Brown gas" is defined as a combustible gas composed of conventional hydrogen and conventional oxygen gases having the exact stochiometric ratio of 2/3 hydrogen and 1/3 oxygen. As we shall see, the combustible gas treated in this invention is dramatically different than the Brown gas.

<0005> The electrolytic equipment and methods for water separation have also been the subject of a vast number of patents, among which is U.S. Pat. No. 4,726,888 issued Feb. 23, 1988 to Michael McCambridge, entitled "Electrolysis Of Water;" U.S. Pat. No. 5,231,954 issued Aug. 3, 1995 to Gene B. Stowe entitled "Hydrogen/Oxygen Fuel Cell"; U.S. Pat. No. 5,401,371 issued Mar. 29, 1995 to Yujiro Oshima entitled "Hydrogen Generator;" and others.

<0006> The novelty of the present invention over preceding prior art is clear and distinct. The prior art deals with equipment and methods for the processing of water into conventional gaseous fuels, that is, fuels possessing the conventional molecular chemical composition or mixture of chemical compositions and is sometimes referred to as "Brown's Gas". By comparison, the present invention provides equipment or a system and related processes (methodology) to produce novel fuel composed of a chemical species beyond that of molecules, that is, HHO combustible gas, which fuel is produced from water using a particular form of electrolyzer.

DESCRIPTION OF THE INVENTION

<0007> This invention deals with the structure, properties and initial applications of a new clean burning combustible gas hereinafter called "HHO gas" produced from distilled water using a special electrolyzer described in detail in the Specifications.

<0008> It will be soon evident that, despite a number of similarities, the HHO gas is dramatically different than the Brown gas or other gases produced by pre-existing electrolyzers. In fact, the latter is a combination of conventional hydrogen and conventional oxygen gases, that is, gases possessing the conventional "molecular" structure, having the exact stochiometric ratio of 2/3 hydrogen and 1/3 oxygen. As we shall see, the HHO gas does not have such an exact stochiometric ratio but instead has basically a structure having a "magnecular" characteristic, including the presence of clusters in macroscopic percentages that cannot be explained via the usual valence bond. As a consequence, the constituents clusters of the Brown Gas and the HHO gas are dramatically different both in percentages as well as in chemical composition, as shown below.

<0009> The first remarkable feature of the special electrolyzers of this invention are their efficiencies. For example, with the use of only 4 Kwh, an electrolyzer rapidly converts water into 55 standard cubic feet (scf) of HHO gas at 35 pounds per square inch (psi). By using the average daily cost of electricity at the rate of $0.08/Kwh, the above efficiency implies the direct cost of the HHO gas of $0.007/scf. It then follows that the HHO gas is cost competitive with respect to existing fuels.

<0010> Under direct inspection, the HHO gas results to be odorless, colorless and lighter than air. A first basic feature in the production of the HHO gas is that there is no evaporation of water at all, and water is directly transmuted into the HHO gas. In any case, the electric energy available in the electrolyzer is basically insufficient for water evaporation.

<0011> This feature alone establishes that the special electrolyzers of this invention produce a "new form of water" which is gaseous and combustible. The main objective of this invention is the first identification on record of the produced unknown chemical composition of the HHO gas, its relationship with the special electrolyzers of this invention, and some initial applications.

<0012> The second important feature of the HHO gas is that it exhibits a "widely varying energy content" in British Thermal Units (BTU), ranging from a relatively cold flame in open air, to large releases of thermal energy depending on its use. This is a direct evidence of fundamental novelty in the chemical structure of the HHO gas.

<0013> In fact, all known fuels have a "fixed energy content" namely, a value of BTU/scf that remains the same for all uses. Also, the variable character of the energy content of the HHO gas is clear evidence that the gas has a magnecular characteristic in its structure, rather than a molecular structure, namely, that its chemical composition includes bonds beyond those of valence type.

<0014> The third important feature of the HHO gas is that it does not require any oxygen for its combustion since it contains in its interior all oxygen needed for that scope. By recalling that other fuels require atmospheric oxygen for their combustion, thus causing a serious environmental problem known as "oxygen depletion," the capability to have combustion without any oxygen depletion renders the HHO gas particularly important on environmental grounds.

<0015> The fourth important feature of the HHO gas is its anomalous adhesion to gases, liquids and solids, as verified experimentally below, thus rendering its use particularly effective as an additive for the enhancement of desired qualities.

<0016> The fifth important feature of the HHO gas is that it does not follow the fundamental PVT law of all conventional gases (namely, those with molecular structure), since the HHO gas begins to deviate from this law at around 150 psi, and it reacquires the water state at a sufficiently high pressures beginning with 250 psi. These aspects are further being investigated for possible development and commercial exploitation.

<0017> The sixth important feature of the HHO gas is that it bonds to gaseous fuels (such as natural gas, magnegas fuel, and other fuels) and liquid fuels (such as diesel, gasoline, liquid petroleum, and other fuels) by significantly improving their thermal content as well as the environmental quality of their exhaust.

<0018> The seventh and most important feature of the HHO gas is that it melts almost instantaneously tungsten, bricks, and other highly refractive substances. In particular, measurements have established the remarkable capability by the HHO gas of reaching almost instantaneously temperatures up to 9,000 degrees C., namely a temperature of the order of that in the Sun chromosphere under which all substances on Earth can be sublimated.

<0019> This invention also involves an electrolyzer for the separation of water, which includes, in one embodiment an electrolysis chamber; an aqueous electrolytic solution comprising water and electrolyte, the aqueous electrolyte solution partially filling the electrolysis chamber such that a gas reservoir region is formed above the aqueous electrolyte solution; two principal electrodes comprising an anode electrode and a cathode electrode, the two principal electrodes being at least partially immersed in the aqueous electrolyte solution; one or more supplemental electrodes at least partially immersed in the aqueous electrolyte solution and interposed between the two principal electrodes wherein the two principal electrodes and the one or more supplemental electrodes are held in a fixed spatial relationship; wherein said electrolyzer produces a combustible gas composed of hydrogen and oxygen atoms and their bonds into chemical species caused by electrons valence bonds and the bond due to attractive forces between opposing magnetic polarities originating in the toroidal polarization of the electron orbitals. Furthermore, the relatively simple design of the electrodes--as rectangular or square metallic shapes allows for the electrodes to be easily replaced. The combustible gas is collected in the gas reservoir region, which is adapted to deliver the gas to the fuel system of an internal combustion engine.

<0020> The invention can be used to improve the fuel efficiency of an internal combustion engine. The method comprises using any of the embodiments of the electrolyzers disclosed herein in conjunction with an internal combustion engine. An electrical potential is applied to the electrodes of the electrolyzer thereby caused the electrolyzer to generate the gas. The gas is then combined with the fuel in the fuel system of the internal combustion engine before the fuel is combusted in the internal combustion engine.

<0021> In still another embodiment of an electrolyzer, an electrolyzer includes an electrolysis chamber which holds an electrolyte solution. The electrolysis chamber mates with a cover at a flange. Preferably, there is a seal between the chamber and cover, which is made from a neoprene gasket, which is placed between the flange and cover. The electrolyte solution may be an aqueous electrolyte solution to produce a mixture of the novel gases; however, to produce the novel inventive gases, distilled water preferably is used.

<0022> The electrolyte partially fills the electrolysis chamber during operation to level such that gas reservoir region is formed above the electrolyte solution. The electrolyzer includes two principle electrodes--anode electrode and cathode electrode--which are at least partially immersed in the electrolyte solution. Anode electrode and cathode electrode slip into grooves in a rack. The rack is placed inside the chamber. One or more supplemental electrodes are also placed in the rack. Again, the supplemental electrodes are at least partially immersed in the aqueous electrolyte solution and interposed between the anode electrode and cathode electrode. Furthermore, anode electrode, cathode electrode, and supplemental electrodes are held in a fixed spatial relationship by rack. Preferably, anode electrode, cathode electrode, and supplemental electrodes are separated by a distance of about 0.25 inches. The one or more supplemental electrodes allow for enhanced and efficient generation of this gas mixture. Preferably, there are from 1 to 50 supplemental electrodes interposed between the two principal electrodes. More preferably, there are from 5 to 30 supplemental electrodes interposed between the two principal electrodes, and most preferably, there are about 15 supplemental electrodes interposed between the two principal electrodes. Preferably, the two principle electrodes are each individually a metallic wire mesh, a metallic plate, or a metallic plate having one or more holes. More preferably, the two principle electrodes are each individually a metallic plate. A suitable metal from which the two principal electrodes are formed, includes but is not limited to, nickel, nickel containing alloys, and stainless steel. The preferred metal for the two electrodes is nickel. The one or more supplemental electrodes are preferably a metallic wire mesh, a metallic plate, or a metallic plate having one or more holes. More preferably, the one or more supplemental electrodes are each individually a metallic plate. A suitable metal from which the two principal electrodes are formed, includes but is not limited to, nickel, nickel containing alloys, and stainless steel. The preferred metal for the two electrodes is nickel.

<0023> During operation of the electrolyzer, a voltage is applied between the anode electrode and cathode electrode which causes the novel gas to be produced and which collects in a gas reservoir region. The gaseous mixture exits the gas reservoir region from through an exit port and ultimately is fed into the fuel system of an internal combustion engine. An electrical contact to anode electrode is made through a contactor and electrical contact to cathode electrode is made by another contactor. The contactors are preferably made from metal and are slotted with channels such that the contactors fit over the anode electrode and cathode electrode. The contactors are attached to rods, which slip through holes in the cover. Preferable the holes are threaded and the rods are threaded rods so that rods screw into the holes. The contactors also hold the rack in place since the anode electrode and cathode electrode are held in place by channels and by grooves in the rack. Accordingly, when the cover is bolted to the chamber, the rack is held at the bottom of the chamber. The electrolyzer optionally includes a pressure relief valve and a level sensor. The pressure relief valve allows the gaseous mixture in the gas reservoir to be vented before a dangerous pressure buildup can be formed. The level sensor ensures that an alert is sounded and the flow of gas to the vehicle fuel system is stopped when the electrolyte solution gets too low. At such time when the electrolyte solution is low, addition electrolyte solution is added through a water fill port. The electrolyzer may also include a pressure gauge so that the pressure in the reservoir may be monitored. Finally, the electrolyzer optionally includes one or more fins which remove heat from the electrolyzer.

<0024> In a variation of an electrolyzer, a first group of the one or more supplemental electrodes is connected to the anode electrode with a first metallic conductor and a second group of the one or more supplemental electrodes is connected to the cathode electrode with a second metallic conductor. The anode electrode, cathode electrode, and supplemental electrodes are held to the rack by a holder rod, which slips through channels in the rack and the holes in the electrodes. The rack is preferably fabricated from a high dielectric plastic such as PVC, polyethylene or polypropylene. Furthermore, the rack holds the anode electrode, cathode electrode, and supplemental electrodes in a fixed spatial relationship. Preferably, the fixed spatial relationship of the two principal electrodes and the one or more supplemental electrodes is such that the electrodes (two principal and one or more supplemental) are essentially parallel and each electrode is separated from an adjacent electrode by a distance from about 0.15 to about 0.35 inches. More preferably, each electrode is separated from an adjacent electrode by a distance from about 0.2 to about 0.3 inches, and most preferably about 0.25 inches. The fixed spatial relationship is accomplished by a rack that holds the two principal electrodes and the one or more supplemental electrodes in the fixed spatial relationship. The electrodes sit in grooves in the rack which define the separations between each electrode. Furthermore, the electrodes are removable from the rack so that the electrodes or the rack may be changed if necessary. Finally, since the rack and anode electrode and cathode electrode are held in place as set forth above, the supplemental electrodes are also held in place because they are secured to the rack by the holder rod.

<0025> During operation, the novel combustible gas is formed by the electrolysis of the electrolyte solution in the electrolyzer. The electrolyzer is connected to a collection tank by a pressure line. The gases are collected and temporarily stored in the collection tank. The collection tank optionally includes a pressure relief valve to guard against any dangerous pressure build up. The collection tank is connected to a solenoid by a pressure line. The solenoid is in turn connected by a pressure line to an engine intake manifold. Optionally, a flash arrestor is incorporated in the pressure line to prevent a flame from propagating in a tube. Furthermore, a pressure line also includes an orifice to regulate the flow of the gaseous mixture into the intake manifold. The size of this orifice will depend on the size of the engine. For example, an orifice diameter of about 0.04 is suitable for a 1 liter engine, about 0.06 inches is suitable for a 2.5 liter engine, and about 0.075 inches is suitable for a V8 engine. The applied voltage to the electrolyzer is provided through the solenoid by an electrolyzer battery. When the pressure in the collection tank drops below about 25 psi, solenoid switches and a voltage of about 12 V is applied between the anode electrode and cathode electrode. A battery isolator allows for charging of a vehicle battery and electrolyzer battery by an alternator while keeping the electrolyzer battery and vehicle battery electrically isolated. Furthermore, the solenoid is powered by the vehicle battery when the main switch is activated. A gas mixer solenoid is also powered by the vehicle battery and opens when the gas mixture is provided to the intake manifold. The solenoid also receives a feedback from the level sensor which causes the solenoid to shut off the gas flow if the electrolyte solution level in the electrolyzer gets too low. Finally, when the method and apparatus of the present invention are used in a vehicle, the operation of the vehicle's oxygen sensor needs to be adjusted to take into account the additional oxygen that is added to the fuel system from the electrolyzer. Normally, if the oxygen sensor senses more oxygen, the vehicle's computer would determine that the engine is running lean and open up the fuel injectors to a richer fuel mixture. This is undesirable and would cause poor fuel economy.

<0026> In another embodiment of the present invention, a method for increasing the fuel efficiency of an internal combustion engine is provided. The method of this embodiment utilizes the electrolyzer described above in conjunction with an internal combustion engine. Specifically, the method comprises providing an electrolyzer equipment described above or as further described below in other novel embodiments; applying an electrical potential between the electrodes wherein the novel combustible gas described herein is generated and collected in the gas reservoir region and wherein the electrolyzer is adapted to deliver the combustible gas to the fuel system of an internal combustion engine; and combining the combustible gas produced with fuel in the fuel system of an internal combustion engine. The step of adjusting the operation of an oxygen sensor as set forth above is also provided.

<0027> In another embodiment, an electrolyzer or gas generator is incorporated into a welding/cutting torch system or another type of equipment/engine system. This system comprises an electrolyte reservoir, having a top and a bottom, containing electrolytic fluid therein. The fluid herein is preferably water. The electrolyte reservoir comprises a broken or permeable plate, which is sealably and circumferentially positioned around a top end of the electrolyte reservoir. Plate functions to release gas pressure within the electrolyte reservoir when exceeding a pre-determined safety level.

<0028> The self-producing hydrogen and oxygen gas generating system further comprises a pump, preferably an electromagnetic pump, which is connected at one distal end to the bottom of the electrolyte reservoir. Pump is connected at an opposite distal end to at least one hydrogen and oxygen electrolyzer/generator containing an electrical conductor therein. The electrical conductor is electrically connected on one distal end to an electrical ground. The opposite distal end of the electrical conductor is electrically connected to one distal end of a pressure controller. The opposite distal end of the electrical conductor is electrically connected to a power source. Pump functions to circulate electrolytic fluid from the electrolyte reservoir through at least one hydrogen and oxygen electrolyzer/generator through a radiator back into the electrolyte reservoir via a gas pipe. The radiator functions to cool the generated hydrogen and oxygen gas before returning to the electrolyte reservoir.

<0029> The pressure controller is connected to the electrolyte reservoir and monitors the pressure therein. When gas pressure within the electrolyte reservoir exceeds a pre-determined level, electrical current is terminated to the electrical conductor contained within the hydrogen and oxygen generator thereby ceasing production of hydrogen and oxygen gas. When gas pressure within the electrolyte reservoir drops below a pre-determined level, electrical current is connected to the electrical conductor contained within the hydrogen and oxygen generator thereby commencing production of hydrogen and oxygen gas. The pre-selected level is less than the pre-selected level required to cause a pressure release through plate.

<0030> This self-producing on-demand hydrogen and oxygen generating system further comprises a non-return valve connected at one end to an upper end of the electrolyte reservoir below plate. The non-return valve is further connected to a dryer/filter means or tank at an opposite distal end.

<0031> System further comprises another filter/dryer means or tank in fluid communication with one end of the electrolyte reservoir above plate and further connected at an opposite distal end to another non-retum valve via gas line, which is connected at an opposite end to another filter/dryer means or tank.

<0032> System further comprises a decompression valve in fluid communication at one end to the top end of the electrolyte reservoir and further being in fluid communication with the gas pipe, which in turn is connected to radiator.

<0033> The welding system further comprises a microprocessor controlled D.C. amperage regulator adapted to regulate the D.C. amperage from the power source to the hydrogen and oxygen generator. A first microprocessor controlled cut-off switch is adapted to terminate the power source to the welder in response to a malfunction of the pump.

<0034> A second microprocessor controlled cut-off switch is adapted to terminate the power source to the welder in response to an insufficient electrolyte solution condition within the electrolyte reservoir. A microprocessor controlled liquid crystal display is adapted to display operating statistics regarding the welding system, such statistics to include hours of operation, amperage, indicator lights and pressure gauge readings. The liquid crystal display receives input from a plurality of locations within the system.

<0035> A microprocessor controlled polarity change system is adapted to change the polarity of the electrical conductor located within the hydrogen and oxygen generator. A microprocessor controlled cool-down system is adapted to operate a generator fan and the pump wherein operation of the fan and the pump continue throughout a cool-down stage following manual shut-off of the welder.

<0036> The produced gas or HHO gas is routed from the dryer means to the final gas reservoir tank. Dryer means and are only exemplary. It is understood that a single unit may be designed to effectively accomplish the same objective. The gas is then supplied on-demand to the engine or in this case, the welding equipment, through gas line and hydrogen flash suppressor check valve (non-return valve) and control valve.

<0037> As mentioned above, a flame from said produced gas or species of hydrogen and oxygen, from said electrolyzer can instantly melt solids without the use of atmospheric oxygen. The produced gas can also be used as a fuel without the use of atmospheric oxygen, and can bond to other substances via magnetic induction.

<0038> A bond is created between a fossil fuel and a combustible gas composed by a combination of hydrogen and oxygen atoms with toroidal polarization of their orbitals. The bond originates from the induced magnetic polarization of at least some of the orbitals of said fuel and the consequential attraction between opposing magnetic polarities. The combustion exhaust of the resulting fuel is cleaner than that of said fossil fuels. Further, the resulting fuel has contained more thermal energy than that of said fossil fuels.

BRIEF DESCRIPTION OF THE DRAWINGS

<0039> FIG. 1a depicts a conventional hydrogen atom with its distribution of electron orbitals in all space directions, thus forming a sphere;

<0040> FIG. 1b depicts the same hydrogen atom wherein its electron is polarized to orbit within a toroid resulting in the creation of a magnetic field along the symmetry axis of said toroid;

<0041> FIG. 2a depicts a conventional hydrogen molecule with some of the rotations caused by temperature;

<0042> FIG. 2b depicts the same conventional molecule in which the orbitals are polarized into toroids, thus causing two magnetic field in opposite directions since the hydrogen molecule is diamagnetic;

<0043> FIG. 3a depict the conventional water molecules H--O--H in which the dimers H--O and O--H form an angle of 105 degrees, and in which the orbitals of the two H atoms are polarized in toroids perpendicular to the H--O--H plane;

<0044> FIG. 3b depicts the central species of this invention consisting of the water molecule in which one valence bond has been broken, resulting in the collapse of one hydrogen atom against the other;

<0045> FIG. 4a depicts a polarized conventional hydrogen molecule;

<0046> FIG. 4b depicts a main species of this invention, the bond between two hydrogen atoms caused by the attractive forces between opposing magnetic polarities originating in the toroidal polarizations of the orbitals;

<0047> FIG. 5 depicts a new chemical species identified for the first time in this invention consisting of two dimers H--O of the water molecule in their polarized form as occurring in the water molecule, with consequential magnetic bond, plus an isolated and polarized hydrogen atom also magnetically bonded to the preceding atoms;

<0048> FIG. 6 depicts mass spectrometric scans of the HHO gas of this invention;

<0049> FIG. 7 depicts infrared scans of the conventional hydrogen gas;

<0050> FIG. 8 depicts infrared scans of the conventional oxygen gas;

<0051> FIG. 9 depicts infrared scans of the HHO gas of this invention;

<0052> FIG. 10 depicts the mass spectrography of the commercially available diesel fuel;

<0053> FIG. 11 depicts the mass spectrography of the same diesel fuel of the preceding FIG. 10 with the HHO gas of this invention occluded in its interior via bubbling;

<0054> FIG. 12 depicts an analytic detection of the hydrogen content of the HHO gas of this invention;

<0055> FIG. 13 depicts an analytic detection of the oxygen content of the HHO gas of this invention;

<0056> FIG. 14 depicts an analytic detection of impurities contained in the HHO gas of this invention;

<0057> FIG. 15 depicts the anomalous blank of the detector since it shows residual substances following the removal of the gas;

<0058> FIG. 16 depicts a scan confirming the presence in HHO of the basic species with 2 amu representing H--H and H.times.H, and the presence of a clean species with 5 amu that can only be interpreted as H--H.times.H--H.times.H;

<0059> FIG. 17 depicts a scan which provides clear evidence of a species with mass 16 amu that in turn confirms the presence in HHO of isolated atomic oxygen, and which confirms the presence in HHO of the species H--O with 17 amu and the species with 18 amu consisting of H--O--H and H.times.H--O;

<0060> FIG. 18 depicts a scan which establishes the presence in HHO of the species with 33 amu representing O--OXH or O--O--H, and 34 amu representing O--H.times.O--H and similar configurations;

<0061> FIG. 19 is an exploded view of an electrolyzer;

<0062> FIG. 20 is top view of a variation of an electrolyzer in which one group of supplemental electrodes are connected to the anode electrode and a second group of supplemental electrodes are connected to the cathode electrode;

<0063> FIG. 21 is a perspective view of the electrode plate securing mechanism for the electrolyzer of FIG. 20;

<0064> FIG. 22 is a plumbing schematic showing the integration of an electrolyzer when applied to a vehicle;

<0065> FIG. 23 is an electrical schematic showing the integration of an electrolyzer when applied to a vehicle; and

<0066> FIG. 24 is a schematic representation of a mixed gas electrolyzer applied to a welder system.

DETAILED DESCRIPTION OF THE INVENTION

<0067> A summary of the scientific representation of the preceding main features of the HHO gas is outlined below without formulae for simplicity of understanding by a broader audience.

<0068> Where the HHO gas originates from distilled water using a special electrolytic process described hereinafter, it is generally believed that such a gas is composed of 2/3 (or 66.66% in volume) hydrogen H2 and 1/2 (or 33.33% in volume) oxygen O2.

<0069> A fundamental point of this invention is the evidence that such a conventional mixture of H2 and O2 gases absolutely cannot represent the above features of the HHO gas, thus establishing the novel existence in the produced inventive HHO gas.

<0070> The above occurrence is established beyond any possible doubt by comparing the performance of the HHO gas with that of a mixture of 66.66% of H2 and 33.33% of O2. There is simply no condition whatsoever under which, the latter gas can instantly cut tungsten or melt bricks as done by the HHO gas, therein supporting the novelty in the chemical structure of the produced HHO gas.

<0071> To begin the identification of the novelty in the HHO gas we note that the special features of the HHO gas, such as the capability of instantaneous melting tungsten and bricks, require that HHO contains not only "atomic hydrogen" (that is, individual H atoms without valence bond to other atoms as in FIG. 1a), but also "magnetically polarized atomic hydrogen", that is, hydrogen atoms whose electrons are polarized to rotate in a toroid, rather than in all space directions, as per FIG. 1b.

<0072> It should be indicated that the Brown gas does assumes the existence of "atomic hydrogen". However, calculations have established that such a feature is grossly insufficient to explain all the feature of the HHO gas, as it will be evidence in the following. The fundamental novelty of this invention is, therefore, the use of "polarized atomic hydrogen" as depicted in FIG. 1b.

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cosmik debris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. Do you really believe that everything that gets a patent works?
I realize how hard it can be to admit that you have fallen for a scam, but c'mon man, this is one of the oldest tricks in the book. The only thing that changes is the vocabulary and the patter.
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #37
51. Tell the military that the hummer that will run with this system is
nothing more than a scam. Again I say, you don't understand what you are reading.


This small excerpt refers to Stan Meyer's water fuel cell. Just read the part in blue, save yourself some time.


PowerPedia:Water as fuel
From PESWiki

The water fuel cell appears to be a perpetual motion device that function by breaking water into hydrogen and oxygen gases using less energy than that present in the bond itself. The water fuel cell was claimed to produce several times more energy than it consumed (for instance, by connecting it to an engine that would burn the hydrogen back into water), and a car prototype powered by a water fuel cell was assembled.

A model has been put forth by Moray King, Ph.D., that explains this excess energy as coming from Zero Point Energy.

The main concept underlying the technology is an irreversible reaction induced by voltage breakdown. Compliance with the parameters of an irreversible reaction dictates that the system in entropically driven rather than thermodynamically driven. The energy input into the system is the magnitude require to charge a capacitor, with pure water as dielectric material, to voltage breakdown threshold.

Its name notwithstanding, the water fuel cell is not a fuel cell. It is also not an electrolyzer because the system explicity violates the 1'st and 2'nd laws of electrolysis. The device utilizes the paramenter of "voltage breakdown" to force pure water into higher state of entropy, resulting in decomposition.



Construction

Stanley Meyer was granted patents in the United States and abroad starting in 1989; patents, in general, are not equivalent to peer review, and do not imply the findings have been confirmed and reproduced by independent parties. However, in Meyer's case, the Methods patent was only granted after a Sec. 101 review, in which he was required to demonstrate a working unit before a board of experts appointed by the USPTO, in person (which most would consider to be a substantially more authoritative review than passive papers being traded back and forth by peers who've never laid eyes on the thing before). The "water fuel cell" consists of stainless steel plates arranged as a capacitor, with pure water acting as the dielectric.

Meyer presented his fuel cell device to Professor Michael Laughton, Dean of Engineering at Queen Mary College, London, Admiral Sir Anthony Griffin, a former controller of the British Navy, and Dr. Keith Hindley, a UK research chemist. <1> (http://www.peswiki.com/index.php/PowerPedia:Water_as_fu... )


According to the witnesses, the most startling aspect of the Meyer cell was that it remained cold, even after hours of gas production as his system appeared to operate on mere milliamperes, rather than the amperes that conventional electrolysis would require. The witnesses also stated:

After hours of discussion between ourselves, we concluded that Stan Meyer did appear to have discovered an entirely new method for splitting water which showed few of the characteristics of classical electrolysis. Possible Theory On How The Water Fuel Cell Works (http://www.waterfuelcell.org/concept.html ) Confirmation that his devices actually do work come from his collection of granted US patents on various parts of the WFC system. Since they were granted under Section 101 by the US Patent Office, the hardware involved in the patents has been examined experimentally by US Patent Office experts and their seconded experts and all the claims have been established.



Stanley Meyer

* U.S. Patent 5,149,407 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?patentnumber=... ) (G.patent (http://www.google.com/patents?q=5,149,407 ); PDF (http://www.pat2pdf.org/pat2pdf/foo.pl?number=5,149,407 )): Process and apparatus for the production of fuel gas and the enhanced release of thermal energy from such gas
* U.S. Patent 4,936,961 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?patentnumber=... ) (G.patent (http://www.google.com/patents?q=4,936,961 ); PDF (http://www.pat2pdf.org/pat2pdf/foo.pl?number=4,936,961 )): Method for the production of a fuel gas
* U.S. Patent 4,826,581 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?patentnumber=... ) (G.patent (http://www.google.com/patents?q=4,826,581 ); PDF (http://www.pat2pdf.org/pat2pdf/foo.pl?number=4,826,581 )): Controlled process for the production of thermal energy from gases and apparatus useful therefore
* U.S. Patent 4,798,661 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?patentnumber=... ) (G.patent (http://www.google.com/patents?q=4,798,661 ); PDF (http://www.pat2pdf.org/pat2pdf/foo.pl?number=4,798,661 )): Gas generator voltage control circuit
* U.S. Patent 4,613,779 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?patentnumber=... ) (G.patent (http://www.google.com/patents?q=4,613,779 ); PDF (http://www.pat2pdf.org/pat2pdf/foo.pl?number=4,613,779 )): Electrical pulse generator
* U.S. Patent 4,613,304 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?patentnumber=... ) (G.patent (http://www.google.com/patents?q=4,613,304 ); PDF (http://www.pat2pdf.org/pat2pdf/foo.pl?number=4,613,304 )): Gas electrical hydrogen generator
* U.S. Patent 4,465,455 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?patentnumber=... ) (G.patent (http://www.google.com/patents?q=4,465,455 ); PDF (http://www.pat2pdf.org/pat2pdf/foo.pl?number=4,465,455 )): Start-up/shut-down for a hydrogen gas burner
* U.S. Patent 4,421,474 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?patentnumber=... ) (G.patent (http://www.google.com/patents?q=4,421,474 ); PDF (http://www.pat2pdf.org/pat2pdf/foo.pl?number=4,421,474 )): Hydrogen gas burner
* U.S. Patent 4,389,981 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?patentnumber=... ) (G.patent (http://www.google.com/patents?q=4,389,981 ); PDF (http://www.pat2pdf.org/pat2pdf/foo.pl?number=4,389,981 )): Hydrogen gas injector system for internal combustion engine
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cosmik debris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #51
52. This scam hasn't changed in 50 years.
Edited on Sat Jul-19-08 09:12 AM by cosmik debris
You can stop posting the patent information. Having a patent doesn't mean that it works, it only means that it is legally protected. The Patent Office does not test the devices that it issues patents on. It does not question or verify the validity of the claims made by the applicant.

But just for fun, I did look at some of the patent information.

Did you notice the age of some of these patents?

Some go back almost twenty five years.

In other words, twenty five years later no one was willing to develop and market this device because it is BOGUS. If it worked half as well as you claim, you should have expected several manufacturers to jump at the chance to take advantage of the enormous profit offered by such a device. But NO! It still holds the same status of an obscure scam that lands just enough suckers to pay the advertising and legal bills.
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #52
66. I bet you wish you had your name on some of them there
patents.... here, this man explains what Stan Meyer accomplished in 20 years of hard work and experimentation. I mean dude, he really explains it in a way that you might understand. He isn't talking about conventional electrolysis... this is a horse of a totally different color.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-WO-sorNkA&NR=1
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cosmik debris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #66
72. If he's so smart, why isn't he rich?
If this was really a great invention it would be flying off the shelves. It would have been on the market years ago. Oh, I forgot it was on the market years ago and only a few suckers bought it.

:rofl:
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #72
79. He's dead, or he's been killed, however you choose to see
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bhikkhu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #34
43. At the risk of further spouting....
There are some things in that patent application that I am amazed ever made it past review. (a unique HHO molecule with anomalous "magnecular" properties?). But I won't go on about it...you make the simple point that the laws of thermodynamics are not violated because the HHO gas is acting as a catalyst to increase the efficiency of the conventional fuel, rather than as a fuel itself.

If so, its an easy enough thing to test and either verify or debunk. One problem may be that people read the stuff on this and it seems so poorly worked out and so questionably written up that it is much easier to just chuckle a bit and move on.
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Dead_Parrot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. Patents aren't particularly subject to feasability studies
See British Rail's nuclear powered flying saucer from 1973 by way of an example.

Or indeed US Patent 3552388...

...Which I'll leave you to puzzle over. :)
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #45
67. Hmmmm.... I've been watching Larry King get the UFO experts
to speak out... interesting stuff that. The automatic diaper changer is pretty cool, don't know about nuclear powered flying saucers.
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CRF450 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 09:21 PM
Response to Original message
39. I have one of those Dodge 4.7 v8's....
An 04 Dodge Dakota 4x4. Averages either 16 or 17mpg for me, the best I ever got with it was 18mpg, that was with about 70% HWY miles too. It can easily get over 20mpg on the highway/interstate going no more than 75mph.
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st8grad93 Donating Member (36 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-08 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
40. I got a 20% increase in mileage ...
Just by driving 60 on the highway ...
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monomach Donating Member (619 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 06:02 AM
Response to Original message
48. The missing ingredient to make this work is MAGIC
It's a 50-year-old scam. Every ten years or so someone renames it and raises a little money. Rhodes Gas. Brown's Gas. HHO gas. Klein's gas (aquygen). How gullible do you have to believe this shit?

YES, THE FIRST AND SECOND LAWS OF THERMODYNAMICS DO APPLY TO AN "HHO" ENGINE!

This stuff is only good for brazing jewelry and polishing glass. Real-world welding applications almost always result in a shitty, brittle weld.















Yeah, yeah, I know. "Read the patent application." :banghead:
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 07:24 AM
Response to Reply #48
49. Who the hell gas welds anymore??? Weld shops do an unreal
amount of cutting.

Your reading comprehension per the patent expliferations is minimal.

Now, on to Stan Meyers and what he theoretically has accomplished. Keep reading, you just might understand what a high level education can cost a person.



PowerPedia:Water as fuel
From PESWiki

The water fuel cell appears to be a perpetual motion device that function by breaking water into hydrogen and oxygen gases using less energy than that present in the bond itself. The water fuel cell was claimed to produce several times more energy than it consumed (for instance, by connecting it to an engine that would burn the hydrogen back into water), and a car prototype powered by a water fuel cell was assembled.

A model has been put forth by Moray King, Ph.D., that explains this excess energy as coming from Zero Point Energy.

The main concept underlying the technology is an irreversible reaction induced by voltage breakdown. Compliance with the parameters of an irreversible reaction dictates that the system in entropically driven rather than thermodynamically driven. The energy input into the system is the magnitude require to charge a capacitor, with pure water as dielectric material, to voltage breakdown threshold.

Its name notwithstanding, the water fuel cell is not a fuel cell. It is also not an electrolyzer because the system explicity violates the 1'st and 2'nd laws of electrolysis. The device utilizes the paramenter of "voltage breakdown" to force pure water into higher state of entropy, resulting in decomposition.



Construction

Stanley Meyer was granted patents in the United States and abroad starting in 1989; patents, in general, are not equivalent to peer review, and do not imply the findings have been confirmed and reproduced by independent parties. However, in Meyer's case, the Methods patent was only granted after a Sec. 101 review, in which he was required to demonstrate a working unit before a board of experts appointed by the USPTO, in person (which most would consider to be a substantially more authoritative review than passive papers being traded back and forth by peers who've never laid eyes on the thing before). The "water fuel cell" consists of stainless steel plates arranged as a capacitor, with pure water acting as the dielectric.

Meyer presented his fuel cell device to Professor Michael Laughton, Dean of Engineering at Queen Mary College, London, Admiral Sir Anthony Griffin, a former controller of the British Navy, and Dr. Keith Hindley, a UK research chemist. <1> (http://www.peswiki.com/index.php/PowerPedia:Water_as_fuel#endnote_wireless)


According to the witnesses, the most startling aspect of the Meyer cell was that it remained cold, even after hours of gas production as his system appeared to operate on mere milliamperes, rather than the amperes that conventional electrolysis would require. The witnesses also stated:

After hours of discussion between ourselves, we concluded that Stan Meyer did appear to have discovered an entirely new method for splitting water which showed few of the characteristics of classical electrolysis. Possible Theory On How The Water Fuel Cell Works (http://www.waterfuelcell.org/concept.html) Confirmation that his devices actually do work come from his collection of granted US patents on various parts of the WFC system. Since they were granted under Section 101 by the US Patent Office, the hardware involved in the patents has been examined experimentally by US Patent Office experts and their seconded experts and all the claims have been established.


Stanley Meyer

* U.S. Patent 5,149,407 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?patentnumber=5,149,407) (G.patent (http://www.google.com/patents?q=5,149,407); PDF (http://www.pat2pdf.org/pat2pdf/foo.pl?number=5,149,407)): Process and apparatus for the production of fuel gas and the enhanced release of thermal energy from such gas
* U.S. Patent 4,936,961 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?patentnumber=4,936,961) (G.patent (http://www.google.com/patents?q=4,936,961); PDF (http://www.pat2pdf.org/pat2pdf/foo.pl?number=4,936,961)): Method for the production of a fuel gas
* U.S. Patent 4,826,581 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?patentnumber=4,826,581) (G.patent (http://www.google.com/patents?q=4,826,581); PDF (http://www.pat2pdf.org/pat2pdf/foo.pl?number=4,826,581)): Controlled process for the production of thermal energy from gases and apparatus useful therefore
* U.S. Patent 4,798,661 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?patentnumber=4,798,661) (G.patent (http://www.google.com/patents?q=4,798,661); PDF (http://www.pat2pdf.org/pat2pdf/foo.pl?number=4,798,661)): Gas generator voltage control circuit
* U.S. Patent 4,613,779 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?patentnumber=4,613,779) (G.patent (http://www.google.com/patents?q=4,613,779); PDF (http://www.pat2pdf.org/pat2pdf/foo.pl?number=4,613,779)): Electrical pulse generator
* U.S. Patent 4,613,304 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?patentnumber=4,613,304) (G.patent (http://www.google.com/patents?q=4,613,304); PDF (http://www.pat2pdf.org/pat2pdf/foo.pl?number=4,613,304)): Gas electrical hydrogen generator
* U.S. Patent 4,465,455 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?patentnumber=4,465,455) (G.patent (http://www.google.com/patents?q=4,465,455); PDF (http://www.pat2pdf.org/pat2pdf/foo.pl?number=4,465,455)): Start-up/shut-down for a hydrogen gas burner
* U.S. Patent 4,421,474 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?patentnumber=4,421,474) (G.patent (http://www.google.com/patents?q=4,421,474); PDF (http://www.pat2pdf.org/pat2pdf/foo.pl?number=4,421,474)): Hydrogen gas burner
* U.S. Patent 4,389,981 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?patentnumber=4,389,981) (G.patent (http://www.google.com/patents?q=4,389,981); PDF (http://www.pat2pdf.org/pat2pdf/foo.pl?number=4,389,981)): Hydrogen gas injector system for internal combustion engine
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bhikkhu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #49
53. The patent office apparently does minimal review
Inventions don't have to work to be granted patents, they don't even have to be feasible.

One mileage scam that has popped up repeatedly is that by placing a magnet along a fuel line you can magnetize the fuel and enhance its atomization and its burn efficiency. A good article is: http://www.tinet.org/~sje/mag_fuel.htm, and it lists 9 patents for varieties of this idea. The problem is that it the EPA has tested these and hundreds of other such things, and for the most part they do nothing whatsoever. You can still buy them and the patents are still there, but the manufacturers are at risk of lawsuit if they make any real claims. What you tend to get instead is pseudo-physics and mumbo-jumbo talk, and no end of ridiculously obscure anecdotal "evidence", such as the OP provides.

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cosmik debris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #53
55. Welcome to the Patently Absurd Inventions Archive
http://totallyabsurd.com/archive.htm

Here is a funny site that illustrates your point.

The "Hot Head" is one of my favorites.
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MrMonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #55
58. It doesn't matter that an invention seems silly.
By law, every inventor is entitled to a patent, except under certain, defined circumstances. Apparent silliness isn't one of them.
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Howzit Donating Member (918 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #58
78. What Can Be Patented? From US Patent and Trade Office
http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/doc/general/index.html#whatpat

The patent law specifies the general field of subject matter that can be patented and the conditions under which a patent may be obtained.

In the language of the statute, any person who “invents or discovers any new and useful process, machine, manufacture, or composition of matter, or any new and useful improvement thereof, may obtain a patent,” subject to the conditions and requirements of the law. The word “process” is defined by law as a process, act or method, and primarily includes industrial or technical processes. The term “machine” used in the statute needs no explanation. The term “manufacture” refers to articles that are made, and includes all manufactured articles. The term “composition of matter” relates to chemical compositions and may include mixtures of ingredients as well as new chemical compounds. These classes of subject matter taken together include practically everything that is made by man and the processes for making the products.

The Atomic Energy Act of 1954 excludes the patenting of inventions useful solely in the utilization of special nuclear material or atomic energy in an atomic weapon 42 U.S.C. 2181 (a).

The patent law specifies that the subject matter must be “useful.” The term “useful” in this connection refers to the condition that the subject matter has a useful purpose and also includes operativeness, that is, a machine which will not operate to perform the intended purpose would not be called useful, and therefore would not be granted a patent.

Interpretations of the statute by the courts have defined the limits of the field of subject matter that can be patented, thus it has been held that the laws of nature, physical phenomena, and abstract ideas are not patentable subject matter.

A patent cannot be obtained upon a mere idea or suggestion. The patent is granted upon the new machine, manufacture, etc., as has been said, and not upon the idea or suggestion of the new machine. A complete description of the actual machine or other subject matter for which a patent is sought is required
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #55
69. Yet more absurd... but I'm sure you will get it.
http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:Water_Fuel_Cell#Overview_Video

Overview Video: Water as Fuel (via ZPE) (3 min) - While academia has been spurning the topic, hundreds, if not thousands of hobbyists and independent investigators worldwide are working on various electrolysis-like projects which put out more energy than was required to run the electrolysis unit. (PES Network Video; Aug. 31, 2007)




In June of 2006, retired U.K. Research Engineer Dave Lawton released a report, compiled by PGFED Editor Patrick Kelly (http://www.panaceauniversity.org), detailing Lawton's success in constructing a working Meyer WFC, which has produced gas at 3x the Faradic equivalent rate for the power consumed. Lawton, who spent much of his career at Britain's Rutherford Labs (equiv. U.S. Lawrence Livermore) designing and constructing instrumentation for high energy particle physics research, is far from the average 'tinkerer'. Videos of his two WFC units, one with an alternator based circuit, and one employing solid state timing logic, were posted on YouTube, and have received over 50,000 hits. The cells operated at 12-13v/3-4a - averaging approximatley 57 watts of input power - producing gas aggressively in distilled water with no electrolyte. On February 23rd, 2007 (the 18th anniversary of Cold Fusion), the H2earth Institute initiated an International Research Fellowship Program to facilitate realtime collaboration between waterfuel researchers around the world, working to decypher the keys to building a functional WFC, based on these Lawton WFC replications.
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cosmik debris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #69
74. I'm still waiting for your marvelous conspiracy theories.
Tell us why none of the major (or minor) auto manufacturers has bought into this? We have seen them go to extremes to get another 2 or 3 mpg from their cars. Yet they ignore this great invention. Oh, I know why --It doesn't work!
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #74
80. ...
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cosmik debris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #80
85. What? No crackpot conspiracy theories?
So does that mean that you finally grasp that the reason the market has rejected this is because it is bogus?

You've got to have some explanation don't you?
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #53
70. Zero point interaction... none to hard to understand if you have
an open mind.


http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:Water_Fuel_Cell#Overview_Video
* Overview Video: Water as Fuel (via ZPE) (3 min) - While academia has been spurning the topic, hundreds, if not thousands of hobbyists and independent investigators worldwide are working on various electrolysis-like projects which put out more energy than was required to run the electrolysis unit. (PES Network Video; Aug. 31, 2007)
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bhikkhu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #70
75. Perpetual Motion, then.
If you have a machine whose energy outputs are greater than the energy inputs, you have perpetual motion

And there are many large standing offers of prize money there for the taking, all you have to do is demonstrate what you claim.
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #75
82. Perpetual motion?? Only until all the zero point energy in the
Edited on Sat Jul-19-08 05:02 PM by 4MoronicYears
universe is used up. We'll have to wait a tad.


Public Domain Waterfuel Technology
http://www.h2earth.org
http://www.h2earth.org

On June 27th, 2007, U.S. Patents 4,936,961 and 5,149,407 by the late Ohio inventor Stanley A. Meyer expired, and his technology for the Water Fuel Cell fell permanently into the public domain in the United States. As what many consider the most sophisticated approach to "Hydrogen-on-Demand" technology (running a vehicle or genset on water alone), the Water Fuel Cell ("WFC") may be the most practical free energy device to introduce on a widespread basis. While it is alone among waterfuel devices in being accompanied by a reasonable theoretical foundation as to why it works, it is also among the simplest and least expensive waterfuel systems to construct. For these and other reasons, on January 1st, 2007, a new nonprofit research & education foundation, the H2earth Institute (http://h2earth.org) was organized to explore waterfuel technology generally, and to re-launch the Meyer WFC in particular, once it became free of intellectual property rights issues, upon expiration of the patents.

Notably, the 5,149,407 "Design" patent, which issed more than two years after the 4,936,961 "Methods" patent, was deliberately truncated by Meyer so that it would expire coterminously with the primary one. Disclaiming the remaining term of a patent is an almost unheard of step for an inventor to take, and indicates the later patent to contain some critical improvements that Meyer wanted the world to have when his basic technology became public domain. Meyer, who died in 1998, was working on more involved and exotic implementations of the technology, involving water injecting spark plugs, which is embodied in other Meyer patents which remain in force until 2011. This project is not concerned with that architecture, but only with the body of Meyer's work which is now in the public domain.

In June of 2006, retired U.K. Research Engineer Dave Lawton released a report, compiled by PGFED Editor Patrick Kelly (http://www.panaceauniversity.org), detailing Lawton's success in constructing a working Meyer WFC, which has produced gas at 3x the Faradic equivalent rate for the power consumed. Lawton, who spent much of his career at Britain's Rutherford Labs (equiv. U.S. Lawrence Livermore) designing and constructing instrumentation for high energy particle physics research, is far from the average 'tinkerer'. Videos of his two WFC units, one with an alternator based circuit, and one employing solid state timing logic, were posted on YouTube, and have received over 50,000 hits. The cells operated at 12-13v/3-4a - averaging approximatley 57 watts of input power - producing gas aggressively in distilled water with no electrolyte. On February 23rd, 2007 (the 18th anniversary of Cold Fusion), the H2earth Institute initiated an International Research Fellowship Program to facilitate realtime collaboration between waterfuel researchers around the world, working to decypher the keys to building a functional WFC, based on these Lawton WFC replications.
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bhikkhu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #82
88. So, again, perpetual motion. Good luck with that.
Zero point energy is a fairly easily understood and conventional notion in physics. It has nothing to do with anything you have been talking about, and contrary to a great deal of science fiction (Stargate, Half life 2, etc) it does not by any means lead to "free energy".
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #88
90. This is a thread about mileage and novel methods for cracking
or disocciating water molecules. If you want to talk about something as silly as free energy go do it somewhere else.
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sl8 Donating Member (256 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #90
94. If you object to the term "free energy" ...
... why do you keep citing peswiki.com? You've cut and pasted the same article from that site several times and link to the site in your sig.

From <http://peswiki.com/index.php/PowerPedia:free_energy> :

"For our purposes, "free energy" is defined as energy that is obtained from a source that is available free of charge and is non-depleting. The devices that harness this energy, are not free; so the quest is to find those methods that are most efficient, cost effective, reliable, feasible, and safe.

The purpose of this website is to feature those technologies the fit this pursuit."



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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #94
98. I believe that you will one day, you will be able to draw
Edited on Sat Jul-19-08 07:46 PM by 4MoronicYears
energy from the quantum foam of space itself. It will cost the universe some energy, but tapping it will essentially produce energy that costs very little. It will appear free of course to the untrained eye. I prefer to refer to it as inexpensive energy.

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sl8 Donating Member (256 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #98
101. OK, but why characterize the previous poster as being too silly?
One of the web sites that you keep referring to seems to take "free energy" very seriously. Do you think that they're just being silly, is it a matter of semantics, or is it something else?

What do you think about the site's owner's Biblical interpretations? Should that influence our opinion of the site's credibility?
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bhikkhu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #90
110. See "Here is the really stupid part" upthread
The OP links to a site that details how the process in question has a larger energy output than the inputs. By definition that describes a "free energy" process as well as the ideal power source for a perpetual motion device.
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MrMonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #49
56. The award of a patent does not validate the claimed technology.
Edited on Sat Jul-19-08 12:55 PM by MrMonk
"Section 101" (35 USC 101) does not require experimental testing of claimed devices or methods. In U.S. Patent Office practice under Section 101, the statements made by the applicant are assumed to be true, unless the Examiner determines that a person having ordinary skill in the relevant arts would not believe them without further evidence. Then it is up to the applicant to provide evidence or arguments to demonstrate that the claimed invention (i.e., the subject matter for which the inventor wants patent protection) actually exists. The Patent Office does not convene a panel of experts to observe the claimed invention.

The award of a patent is not a validation that an invention works as claimed, only an Examiner thinks that a person having ordinary skill in the relevant arts would believe that it worked (or just let the issue go so that he could make his quota (thanks, PTO resource management)). Meyer's reports on his device show that it seems to violate well-established laws of chemistry and physics. There is no credible evidence in the public record (that anyone here could find) that shows that it actually works as described. So, I do not believe that it works.


Added:

According to one of the cited experts, Michael Laughton, Meyers did not demonstrate his water-powered car, claiming it was unavailable on the the day of the scheduled test.

http://peswiki.com/index.php/PowerPedia:Water_as_fuel

(see the linked article "End of the road for car that ran on Water". Experts testified in court that there was nothing new in Meyers' device.)

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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #56
59. Rebuttal, do take the time to see what it actually says.
Note from Dineh Torres, NEN Publications Director and writer:

From: NEN, Vol. 4, No. 11, March 1997, p. 1. New Energy News (NEN) copyright 1997 by Fusion Information Center, Inc.
COPYING NOT ALLOWED without written permission.
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

We received the following letter from Stanley Meyer in complaint of an article published in the December 1996 issue of New Energy News. This NEN "article" was a four sentence summary of a newspaper article published in the London Sunday Times (which was sent to us by Mark Goldes, he did not write any of it). There were no comments made by NEN about the content of the Times article. However, I do apologize fully for the title of the article. The master copy of that issue is being changed and subsequent copies will be printed with the title "Legal Problems for WFC ."

As far as the other points that Meyer mentions in his letter, the summary in NEN made no implications concerning the veracity or market- ability of his Water Fuel Cell technology, since it was merely a summary of a news item. In fact, the Times' mention of "expert witnesses" was printed in quotation marks because we do know how expert some witnesses can be, from our own Cold Fusion experiences. We had no indication of any appeal being made by Meyer, any court order that had been made, any patentability questions, or about any independent test evaluations, because we have not received information about any of this from Meyer's WFC company until now. A complete copy of the WFC Public Notice (12 pages) will be made available to anyone requesting it and sending a Self-Addressed Stamped Envelope ($.55 postage) to the NEN office. In the Public Notice, WFC explains the entire issue.

We are truly sorry that Mr. Meyer has taken such offence at our summary, and we note here that the information that WFC has just sent to NEN indicates that WFC has issued a formal complaint against the London Sunday Times concerning the article. NEN and the Institute for New Energy do not wish to denigrate any serious inventor or scientist who is working on New Energy solutions, and we will continue to do all we can to support their efforts. To that end we need the input of these researchers so we can more exactly represent their endeavors. Our best wishes to Mr. Meyer and his company in their legal problems and in their continued research and development of the Water Fuel Cell.



RE: Article titled "Fuel For Fraud or Vice Versa"

Courtesy of Mark Goldes
Contents for December 1996 issue
Subject: WFC Notice To Retract

Dear Sir,

We are enclosing: WFC technical Supplemental Report (issue No. 11A, pages 1 thru 12), titled WFC setting Industry Standard denoting WFC "Mode of Operability" to cause "Particle oscillation as an energy generator" by way of pulsating electrical stress to instantly convert water droplets into thermal explosive energy (gtnt) and subscribed therein many independent governmental and university laboratories test-reports confirming WFC technology of Inventions; WFC Public Notice To Inform (pages 1 thru 12), Supreme Court of Ohio Disciplinary Counsel filing of events denoting therein WFC charges of judicial default by presiding Judge, Corzine, in preventing WFC Evidence of Records to be submitted to the Fayette County Court by switching off the court audio sound recording equipment; The German Association of Vacuum Field Energy correspondence letter to WFC by Dr. H.A. Nieper ... stating "I refer to the tested overunity effect of your (WFC) technology" ... "We will present there (Expo 2000 World exhibition, Hannover, Germany) the modalities of the conversion of Vacuum Field Energy on which your (WFC) procedure is based on"; and a copy of New Energy News article titled "Fuel For Fraud or Vice Versa," page 17, as per WFC Evidence of Records; and that,

WFC Major Complaints Against Mark Goldes Article

1) that the article was unbalance as it did not mention the fact that WFC is appealing against the decision of the presiding Judge on the grounds of judicial default; and that,
2) that the article wrongly implies that the court order WFC to stop developing the Water Fuel Injection System; and that,
3) that the article wrongly implies that the WFC technology of inventions has no technological merit of truth; and that,
4) that the article wrongly implies that the Sunday Times Journalist, Tony Edwards, has the technical expertise in the field of physics and chemistry background to properly evaluate WFC tech-base; and that,
5) that the article wrongly implies that no independent test evaluation reports confirming the "Mode of Operability" of WFC technology exist in the scientific community, worldwide; and that,
6) that the article wrongly implies that the U.S. Patent Office has not the ability to rule on the technical merits of issued U.S. Patents, as so granted to inventor, Stanley A. Meyer, under 35 USC 101 ... as so duly noted in context as so subscribed in attached WFC documents titled WFC Public Notice To Inform as in reference to WFC Technical Supplemental Report; and that,
7) that the article wrongly implies that the Plaintiff's three experts had the necessary scientific background to properly evaluate the various stages of the tech-development of the WFC technology; and that,
8) that the article wrongly implies that WFC process of particle oscillation as an energy generator by way of pulsating electrical stress to cause instant conversion of water droplets into thermal explosive energy (gtnt) is nothing more than conventional electrolysis; and that,

WFC Notice To Retract and WFC Cease & Desist Order Hereby Given

Due to the New Energy News article above distorted and unbalance bias statements, WFC hereby demand that The New Energy News Editor, Hal Fox, print an article in the next issue of the New Energy News with regard to the confirmation of WFC tech-base by the many independent Governmental and University testing laboratories, worldwide, as herein so duly noted... demon- strating the "Mode of Operability of using water as a new fuel source, as so subscribed in above attached WFC Technical Supplemental Report ... as so further elucidated by the enclosed attached German Association of Vacuum Field Energy letter to WFC by Dr. H.A. Neiper confirming the tested overunity effect of WFC technology, as herein to be included therein WFC charges of judicial default as so outlined above against the presiding judge; as herein WFC Notice To Comply is herein given; and that,



One of Mr. Meyer's WFC systems as shown in his New Release, aviable from WFC, Inc.

It is hereby to be noted that above said WFC documents were in the public domain prior to the publishing date of said New Energy News article. Concealing information to promote public deception is punishable both by fine and imprisonment, or both, as so specified under U.S. Federal Security Laws To Inform. FedEx tracking No. 2092559394.

Respectfully Submitted For Compliance,
Stanley A. Meyer, Inventor
Water Fuel Cell, 3792 Broadway
Grove City, Ohio 43123

Return to the INE Main Page
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MrMonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #59
105. You clicked on the wrong link.
Edited on Sat Jul-19-08 08:47 PM by MrMonk
The article that I referred to is from the Times(UK), reporting on a US court decision. What you've presented is a "rebuttal" to a brief summary of the article. When you read the Times article, you might also notice (though probably not), that Meyers is objecting to statements that are not there.
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Dead_Parrot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #59
107. This is the guy who was nailed for fraud, right?
Edited on Sat Jul-19-08 09:16 PM by Dead_Parrot
I'm still not convinced, for some reason.

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.energy.hydrogen/msg/8ee0acb80e943e21?hl=endc310437cd1cee1e7&">Here is the article Monk is referring to.

One of the experts due to examine the car was Michael Laughton, professor
of electrical engineering at Queen Mary and Westfield University, London,
but he was not allowed to see it. "Although Meyer had known about our
visit weeks in advance, when we arrived he made some lame excuse about why
the car wasn't working, so it was impossible to evaluate it," said
Laughton.

...
To the layman it was an impressive performance and
hundreds of small investors signed up, but it did not impress three expert
witnesses in court.
They decided that there was nothing revolutionary about the cell at all and
that it was simply using conventional electrolysis.
Meyer was found guilty of "gross and egregious fraud" and ordered to repay
the investors their $25,000 (£15,000).
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cosmik debris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #107
108. Zing!
:rofl:
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sl8 Donating Member (256 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #49
73. Interesting site, PESWiki.
And Sterling D. Allan seems to be a pretty interesting guy.

<http://www.greaterthings.com/Word-Number/People/SDA_President_04/index.html> :
Sterling D. Allan for U.S. President 2004 Foretold in Alphabetics Bible Code

I wonder if his articles about energy are more or less credible than his Biblical code-breaking?

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monomach Donating Member (619 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 04:04 AM
Response to Reply #49
114. What? Stan Meyer the FRAUDULENT CRIMINAL?
Just want to make sure we're talking about the same guy here...
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tinrobot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
62. Perhaps you need to go install this device and report back.
It seems like your only defense is to barrage anyone who doubts your claims with reams and reams of meaningless words.

Words mean nothing. You need to take action.

Go install the device in your car, document the process, do some mileage tests, and report back.

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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #62
68. Better yet, we've got a guy down the road installing these systems
for paying customers. I'm gonna interview several of them and see just what's what. I'll report back asap. He's not exactly down the road, but I pass by the place now and again, once or twice a week, I'll stop next time and see what he is up to.
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tinrobot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #68
76. Have him install one in your car.
No more word of mouth. Put up or shut up.
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #76
87. .... pitiful display of ignorance sprinkled with aggression. You've
made my ignore list. Congratulations.
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tinrobot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #87
93. Yay!
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Howzit Donating Member (918 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 04:44 PM
Response to Original message
77. Doesn't his device boost MPG in the same way that driving down
a hill would? MPG on the way down would be high, but if you average MPG going up and down it would be pretty average.

You get the same boost in energy from the HHO that it took to crack the water, less inefficinecies. If you measure MPG for a short time it would be higher, but what no one is saying is that this energy came out of your car battery. If you measure MPG while the battery is recharged to full capacity it would be lower than without the miracle device.

What we have here is faith in a sampling error. Let me see you sustain your boosted MPG over a whole tank! It will dwindle as soon as you get to the bottom of the hill or the battery is flat...
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bhikkhu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #77
83. the energy comes from the alternator, which is engine driven
...so the energy used to crack the water is produced by burning gasoline at 20% efficiency or so. The theory seems to be that this is some special magic "magnecular" HHO which acts as a catalyst to improve the combustion process. It would be very simple to bench test.

That it has been around for so many years and is still supported by nothing but anecdote is a pretty good indicator of its real value.
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #83
89. ...
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #77
91. Very simple indeed. n/t
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Howzit Donating Member (918 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #91
92. Everything is simple when broken down to basics
Do you need donations to fund a test of this device? I am willing to donate $10 if you promise to try it out to our satisfaction.
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #92
96. Here, I think you can digest this.... as far as trying one out, sure
I will and I don't need donations. Building what is referenced on this page?? You can bet on it.

http://www.waterfuelcell.org/concept.html
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cosmik debris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #96
99. That's a pretty interesting web site
It only took about 2 minutes to find two glaring errors. And that doesn't include using the antiquated Bohr model of the atom.

Would you care to guess what those two errors are? Since you think so little of my education, you should be able to spot them more easily than I did.
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Howzit Donating Member (918 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #99
102. I am still struggling with energy balance, but this thing seems to be analogous to
the instantaneous torque multiplication one gets with an impact wrench - the peak torque at the nut is much higher than the average torque at the handle because it is applied in pulses and the mass of the wrench damps high frequency response. This allows very tight nuts to be cracked loose by multiplying torque, not power or energy: The average torque x average rotational speed = average power. Nothing for free.

I can see the H2O cracking voltage coming down when power is applied in pulses at some resonant frequency (maybe), but the total charge of the total number of electrons moved should remain the same. If you want to move a lot of electrons you need a proportionate charge; - both should be proportionate to the mass of HHO produced.

1M volt x .1 Amp for 1 hour is the same energy as .1 Volt x 2M Amps for 30 minutes. Preventing 1M volt from leaking and finding a conductor thick enough for 2 M Amps will be tricky for experiments at home, but this is a joke anyway.

The bottom line is that the basic principle behind "the invention" should not take pages to explain - all this fluff is just to convince people that they are too stupid to understand. I am not a nuclear scientist, yet I understand the principle of critical mass and how The Fat Man and The Little Boy worked.

As I said, all concept are simple when broken down. Why is this so complicated? On the other hand, if it can be demonstrated to work continuously - no "running downhill" on stored energy in the battery for a short test - then it doesn't matter if we understand it or not. I don't understand how homeopathy works, but it has worked for me and I have seen it work on pets - no placebo effect with non-humans.

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cosmik debris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #102
103. I didn't make it that far
I broke up laughing when I saw this drawing



Both of the glaring errors are illustrated in this one drawing.
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Howzit Donating Member (918 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #103
104. I would think the oxygen would insist on "being fed" electrons from the external source and
that the negative electrode would be the one to supply those electrons. The picture shows electrons being stripped from both oxygen and hydrogen - not very likely.

The electron "restrictor" must be a mythical device like a "flux capacitor" - the number of electrons leaving the system must equal the number entering or the external electrical power source cannot function.
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cosmik debris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #104
109. The two glaring errors that cracked me up were
1. Electrons have a negative charge. A surplus of electrons make the pole's charge negative. But the diagram shows the surplus of electrons at the positive pole. Not only is that impossible, but it is preposterous.

2. Electrons flow from the point of surplus to the point of deficit. That is, they flow from the negative pole to the positive pole. The diagram shows the electrons flowing from the positive to the negative, i.e. from the deficit to the surplus. It just can't happen.

In light of these glaring errors, it is safe to assume that the person who drew this diagram didn't know squat about electricity.

There may be other errors, but that seems inconsequential since the author is obviously completely ignorant of basic electronics.

And it also seems that a poster up-thread has shown that this guy was convicted of fraud for trying to sell stock in a car that ran on water, so I suspect that this discussion is over.
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Howzit Donating Member (918 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #109
112. I was trying to figure out if they meant negatively charged oxygen ions would be attracted to the
positive electrode and positively charged hydrogen ions would be drawn to the negative electrode. You are correct that to be negatively charged, the electrode would have to have a surplus of electrons. Instead, the drawing shows electrons stripped off both oxygen and hydrogen atoms moving towards the positive electrode. Something isn't right, but could one correction fix it completely, or is it complete BS...

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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 07:00 AM
Response to Reply #112
115. Oh, it's complete bullshit, didn't you get the memo from the
rest of the naysayers?
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cosmik debris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 07:28 AM
Response to Reply #112
116. The author lacks the fundamental understanding of electricity
Edited on Sun Jul-20-08 07:35 AM by cosmik debris
The basic concepts learned in elementary electronics courses are that electrons are negatively charged thus creating a negative pole and that electrons flow from the negative (surplus) to the positive (deficit). The author seems to believe the opposite.

When you are wrong on the fundamental principles, you are wrong on your conclusions.

And don't forget that he is a criminal who got caught in a fraud scam trying to sell a car that runs on water! :rofl:
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tinrobot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #104
111. Actually, the "restrictor" could easily be a resitor.
But you're right, the number of electrons leaving the system must be equal to the number entering. So, if you "restrict" the current going in using a resistor, then you get less current on the other side.

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Howzit Donating Member (918 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-08 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #96
106. Oops - post # 102 was in response to this one... N/T
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Howzit Donating Member (918 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-08 07:23 PM
Response to Original message
118. Empirical results matter more than understanding theory
Edited on Sun Jul-20-08 07:25 PM by Howzit
Assuming the improvement in economy proves to be real, perhaps the mechanism is not the added energy content of the hydrogen, but the more complete combustion of the gasoline that results from the addition of millions of tiny "spark plugs" - the injected hydrogen molecules...

Think of it as a catalytic converter inside the combustion chamber where it can contribute to efficiency.
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