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GliderGuider (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-10-08 08:47 AM Original message |
Was Paul Watson shot by a Japanese sniper? (xpost from GD) |
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phantom power (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-10-08 09:11 AM Response to Original message |
1. Our disregard for the Geneva Conventions coming home to roost? |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-10-08 09:43 AM Response to Original message |
2. There are a few errors in that knowledgable analysis |
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GliderGuider (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-10-08 09:59 AM Response to Reply #2 |
3. I don't know what to think about you, kristopher |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-10-08 10:21 AM Response to Reply #3 |
4. A lot of people tell me that. |
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jpak (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-10-08 10:39 AM Response to Reply #4 |
5. French intelligence agents bombed and sank the Rainbow Warrior (Greenpeace) in Auckland harbor |
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bananas (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-10-08 10:59 AM Response to Reply #5 |
7. "Operation Satanic" - killed photographer Fernando Pereira |
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OKIsItJustMe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-10-08 05:08 PM Response to Reply #7 |
25. Lost in the editing process |
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losthills (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-10-08 11:02 AM Response to Reply #4 |
8. Low velocity rounds have been used with sniper rifles |
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TheWraith (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-11-08 11:48 AM Response to Reply #8 |
41. Even a subsonic sniper round will punch through body armor with ease. |
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losthills (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Mar-14-08 09:18 AM Response to Reply #41 |
82. Actually you are wrong about that. |
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Spoonman (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Mar-13-08 01:36 PM Response to Reply #8 |
67. SAY WHAT!? |
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losthills (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Mar-14-08 09:31 AM Response to Reply #67 |
83. I don't think you're following the conversation. |
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Spoonman (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Mar-14-08 10:57 AM Response to Reply #83 |
87. I don't think your following logic |
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losthills (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Mar-14-08 12:32 PM Response to Reply #87 |
90. You don't know what kind of weapon or what kind of round |
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Spoonman (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Mar-14-08 02:03 PM Response to Reply #90 |
93. Your just a guy who doesn't like scrutiny |
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benEzra (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-16-08 08:22 AM Response to Reply #8 |
98. That's not a rifle round he's holding in the photo, though. |
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OKIsItJustMe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-10-08 10:55 AM Response to Reply #3 |
6. An ironic quote |
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GliderGuider (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-10-08 11:11 AM Response to Reply #6 |
9. A real assassination attempt would also have all the benefits you mentioned. |
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OKIsItJustMe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-10-08 11:20 AM Response to Reply #9 |
12. With one key difference |
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GliderGuider (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-10-08 11:32 AM Response to Reply #12 |
13. Presumably from a real assassin's POV that would have been the primary benefit of the exercise. |
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OKIsItJustMe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-10-08 02:57 PM Response to Reply #13 |
20. My thoughts exactly |
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pscot (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-10-08 07:17 PM Response to Reply #20 |
30. We are in "Ends justify the means" territory |
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OKIsItJustMe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-10-08 08:44 PM Response to Reply #30 |
32. A third possibility has occurred to me |
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losthills (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-10-08 08:53 PM Response to Reply #30 |
34. If Watson is not "entirely sane," then who is? |
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bananas (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-10-08 11:12 AM Response to Reply #6 |
10. Occam's razor time: Which is more plausible? |
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OKIsItJustMe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-10-08 11:18 AM Response to Reply #10 |
11. I don't believe the French intended to kill anybody |
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bananas (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-10-08 11:45 AM Response to Reply #11 |
14. Doesn't matter |
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OKIsItJustMe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-10-08 02:53 PM Response to Reply #14 |
19. Actually, I'd never heard of him before... |
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bananas (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-10-08 03:04 PM Response to Reply #19 |
21. You never heard of Paul Watson before? |
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OKIsItJustMe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-10-08 03:52 PM Response to Reply #21 |
22. I freely admit my ignorance |
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wtmusic (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-11-08 10:16 AM Response to Reply #22 |
40. Watson was a founding member of Greenpeace |
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NickB79 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-10-08 01:54 PM Response to Original message |
15. There are so many things wrong with this, ballistically, I barely know where to begin |
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GliderGuider (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-10-08 02:30 PM Response to Reply #15 |
16. The more I think about it, the more I agree with you. |
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phantom power (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-10-08 02:33 PM Response to Reply #16 |
17. Speaking of that, has Watson corroborated any of this story? |
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bananas (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-10-08 02:40 PM Response to Reply #17 |
18. It's on the Sea Shepherd website |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-10-08 05:19 PM Response to Reply #16 |
28. Watson's possible line of reasoning |
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losthills (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-12-08 02:23 AM Response to Reply #28 |
56. Hi, this is Morty, from Columbia Entertainment. |
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NickB79 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-11-08 01:31 PM Response to Reply #15 |
42. Another thing: the author has no idea what a dum-dum bullet actually is |
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OKIsItJustMe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-10-08 04:36 PM Response to Original message |
23. Shots in southern seas |
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bananas (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-10-08 05:06 PM Response to Reply #23 |
24. Animal Planet Statement Regarding Sea Shepherd Society Activities in the Antarctic |
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phantom power (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-10-08 05:10 PM Response to Reply #24 |
27. Aha. If I may don my tinfoil hat for a moment... |
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bananas (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-10-08 05:09 PM Response to Reply #23 |
26. That's an editorial |
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OKIsItJustMe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-10-08 05:42 PM Response to Reply #26 |
29. An interesting New Yorker article from last November |
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losthills (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-10-08 08:00 PM Response to Original message |
31. Let's get real for a moment. |
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OKIsItJustMe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-10-08 08:48 PM Response to Reply #31 |
33. Now there's a coincidence... |
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losthills (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-10-08 09:04 PM Response to Reply #33 |
35. Yeah, I just saw your post. |
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OKIsItJustMe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-10-08 09:25 PM Response to Reply #35 |
36. I don't know as the doctor proves much of anything |
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losthills (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-10-08 10:26 PM Response to Reply #36 |
37. The evidence that he was shot during a confrontation |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-10-08 10:59 PM Response to Reply #37 |
38. The Japanese insist that the round be turned over to Australian police for forensic exam |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-10-08 11:53 PM Response to Reply #38 |
39. Deleted sub-thread |
Spoonman (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Mar-13-08 11:40 AM Response to Reply #35 |
62. There are guns on the Steve Irwin |
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GliderGuider (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Mar-13-08 11:51 AM Response to Reply #62 |
63. Well, that sounds pretty convincing |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Mar-13-08 12:09 PM Response to Reply #62 |
65. Thank you |
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losthills (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Mar-14-08 09:54 AM Response to Reply #62 |
84. Your self proclaimed "expertise" |
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Spoonman (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Mar-14-08 10:46 AM Response to Reply #84 |
86. Sounds to me like |
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losthills (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Mar-14-08 12:49 PM Response to Reply #86 |
91. More smoke. |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Mar-14-08 02:24 PM Response to Reply #91 |
94. Deleted message |
benEzra (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-11-08 04:27 PM Response to Original message |
43. Photos and observations... |
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wtmusic (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-11-08 04:51 PM Response to Reply #43 |
44. Thank you, good info. |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-11-08 06:15 PM Response to Reply #43 |
45. Improbable components of your scenario |
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losthills (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-11-08 08:03 PM Response to Reply #45 |
46. Then I guess it's impossible for them to ever hit a whale |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-11-08 08:55 PM Response to Reply #46 |
47. Straw man. You're discarding the target size. |
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losthills (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-11-08 09:53 PM Response to Reply #47 |
49. The death of Lord Admiral Horatio Nelson |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-11-08 10:03 PM Response to Reply #49 |
50. Find one example of the type of emotionalism that is characteristic of hate in my posts. |
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losthills (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-12-08 12:24 AM Response to Reply #50 |
51. More of the same B.S. as I predicted.... |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-12-08 12:46 AM Response to Reply #51 |
52. Good luck with that extreme case of cognitive dissonance. |
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losthills (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-12-08 01:21 AM Response to Reply #52 |
53. More slander. |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-12-08 01:42 AM Response to Reply #53 |
54. It isn't slander when it's true. |
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losthills (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-12-08 02:17 AM Response to Reply #54 |
55. You have called Paul Watson a criminal. |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-12-08 03:46 AM Response to Reply #55 |
57. Yes, I have called Watson a criminal. |
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losthills (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-12-08 09:47 AM Response to Reply #57 |
58. Paul Watson is not a criminal. |
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GliderGuider (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-12-08 10:17 AM Response to Reply #58 |
59. That I agree with. |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-12-08 04:55 PM Response to Reply #59 |
60. The argument is valid |
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benEzra (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-16-08 08:13 AM Response to Reply #45 |
97. The Japanese Coast Guard have pistols... |
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Ready4Change (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-11-08 09:08 PM Response to Original message |
48. "..is tantamount to you committing Kamikaze,..." |
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ConcernedCanuk (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Mar-13-08 02:15 AM Response to Original message |
61. As a target shooter, I think sniper shot is out of the question. |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Mar-13-08 12:08 PM Response to Reply #61 |
64. It would be like using a 22 to shoot dove while riding a bicycle without holding the handlebars |
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losthills (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Mar-13-08 02:49 PM Response to Reply #64 |
69. That is a ridicilous comparison. |
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pscot (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Mar-13-08 01:12 PM Response to Reply #61 |
66. I had some pistol training |
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losthills (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Mar-13-08 02:37 PM Response to Reply #66 |
68. Actually, these two boats were within rock throwing distance. |
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Spoonman (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Mar-13-08 03:08 PM Response to Reply #68 |
70. Are you stating an EXPERT opinion, |
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losthills (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Mar-13-08 03:44 PM Response to Reply #70 |
71. You obviously know a lot about shooting |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Mar-13-08 06:58 PM Response to Reply #71 |
72. it ain't shinola |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Mar-13-08 07:58 PM Response to Reply #72 |
73. Deleted message |
kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Mar-13-08 08:08 PM Response to Reply #73 |
74. it ain't shinola |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Mar-13-08 09:44 PM Response to Reply #73 |
75. Amazing. |
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losthills (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Mar-13-08 10:10 PM Response to Reply #75 |
76. This one will stop a .308 Sherlock. |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Mar-13-08 10:24 PM Response to Reply #76 |
77. ? |
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losthills (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Mar-13-08 10:24 PM Response to Reply #76 |
78. Here's a bullet proof vest demonstration. |
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losthills (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Mar-13-08 10:35 PM Response to Reply #78 |
79. Check out Wicki if you want to educate yourself |
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Spoonman (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Mar-14-08 11:45 AM Response to Reply #79 |
89. Educate yourself with the statements given by Sea Shepard |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Mar-14-08 03:25 AM Response to Reply #78 |
80. I didn't see any plates in Watson's vest. Maybethey were there and I missed it. |
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bananas (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Mar-14-08 07:50 AM Response to Reply #80 |
81. "Myth Busters" had to debunk this twice |
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Spoonman (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Mar-14-08 10:19 AM Response to Reply #81 |
85. Well duh! |
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bananas (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Mar-15-08 05:49 PM Response to Reply #85 |
95. You said "it would have sent him two feet back", and that's incorrect |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Mar-15-08 06:36 PM Response to Reply #95 |
96. I wouldn't take mythbusters as gospel |
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bananas (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 05:30 AM Response to Reply #96 |
99. So do the experiment yourself, or do the math yourself, this is high-school physics |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 09:03 AM Response to Reply #99 |
100. My first experience shooting a large caliber gun |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-18-08 03:32 AM Response to Reply #100 |
105. Deleted message |
kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-18-08 09:31 AM Response to Reply #105 |
107. You need to back off a little on the personal attacks. |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 09:53 AM Response to Reply #99 |
101. References re being shot w/ vest |
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bananas (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 11:48 AM Response to Reply #101 |
102. Check your math. nt |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 12:10 PM Response to Reply #102 |
103. the math is correct |
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bananas (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-17-08 09:45 PM Response to Reply #103 |
104. No, the math is off by three orders of magnitude. nt |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-18-08 04:20 AM Response to Reply #104 |
106. You're right. Still buy the "thump" claim? |
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benEzra (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-18-08 08:51 PM Response to Reply #106 |
109. From the photos, this looks like a 9mm or .40 handgun round. At 50 yards, |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-19-08 03:39 AM Response to Reply #109 |
110. My friend, you are talking in circles. |
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benEzra (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-19-08 10:16 AM Response to Reply #110 |
112. Observations... |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-19-08 11:17 AM Response to Reply #112 |
114. Thank you for the tutoral, but... |
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benEzra (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-19-08 02:03 PM Response to Reply #114 |
115. I think we partially agree, at least that the weapon was a handgun. |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-19-08 02:27 PM Response to Reply #115 |
116. Coincidentally, the Japanese are very vocal in calling for the Australian police to investigate |
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losthills (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Mar-20-08 12:05 AM Response to Reply #114 |
118. You're shooting a dead horse.... |
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bananas (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-19-08 04:50 PM Response to Reply #106 |
117. You've made two claims |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Mar-20-08 06:47 AM Response to Reply #117 |
119. I don't understand |
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losthills (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Mar-20-08 09:52 AM Response to Reply #119 |
120. Nobody hit themself in the chest with a hammer. |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Mar-20-08 11:25 AM Response to Reply #120 |
121. As always, I'm thrilled by your input and astounded by your objectivity. |
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benEzra (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-18-08 08:45 PM Response to Reply #101 |
108. 20 grams at 1500 ft/sec dramatically overstates the impact. |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-19-08 03:55 AM Response to Reply #108 |
111. Yes it does. That's why I labeled it a Wild Ass Guess. |
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benEzra (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-19-08 10:25 AM Response to Reply #111 |
113. Here is my speculation... |
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Spoonman (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Mar-14-08 11:30 AM Response to Reply #71 |
88. Evidence? |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Mar-14-08 01:11 PM Response to Reply #88 |
92. Deleted sub-thread |
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