Kerry defends "No Child Left Behind"

[XanaDUer]

Democratic candidate defends vote for Bush education plan


"BARTLETT, New Hampshire (AP) -- Facing a skeptical crowd of teachers, Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry defended his vote for the federal "No Child Left Behind Act" while criticizing President Bush for underfunding the far-reaching education reform law..."

More:
http://www.cnn.com/2003/EDUCATION/08/07/kerry.education.ap/index.html



Kerry promises to hold Bush to this, and points out how the * team is walking away from its promises to American's children.

Go KERRY!

[chimpymustgo]

1. Looks as though Kerry impressed the teachers.

And he's right about the over-reliance on testing.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

2. He was booed.

Impressive.

Note: I agree that Dems get a bum rap on this issue. It was ChimpCo pulling the funding that is causing the problem, not the actual vote.

[killbotfactory]

3. The bill is pretty bad in it's own right.

It's not just the underfunding.

[DrFunkenstein]

4. 91-8 Vote/The Harkin Amendment

Note: I believe all 8 "nay" votes were Republicans.

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=107&session=1&vote=00192

WASHINGTON --- U.S. Senator Tom Harkin (D-IA) unveiled a major new plan to improve education in America over the next decade at a Capitol Hill news conference today. Harkin a senior member of the Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor and Pension and the Ranking Member on the Senate Appropriations Subcommittee that funds education programs was joined by Senators Ted Kennedy (D-MA), Paul Wellstone (D-MN), Patty Murray (D-WA) and Jon Corzine (D-NJ).

"Today I am calling on President Bush to meet the goal he set during his campaign -- to leave no child behind," said Harkin.

"In this new century, we need a new plan for American education -- a bold, daring plan to demand true accountability from our schools -- and to provide the resources they need to meet the highest standards," said Harkin. "I am ready to work with the President to help him make that happen."

Among the organizations supporting Harkin's plan to "Leave No Child Behind" are: National Education Association; National Association of Student Financial Aid Administrators; Children's Defense Fund; The Children's Foundation; American Council on Education; American Association of State Colleges and Universities; Association of Jesuit Colleges and Universities; National Association of Independent Colleges and Universities; and American Association of Community.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_01/0059_Harkin.Child.htm

[LWolf]

18. NCLB is not a "liberal" amendment.

It's true that it garnered a lot of democratic votes. It has a lot of points that sound good when you talk about them but don't hold up in practice. Yes, it sure would be nice if it was funded, but that isn't the worst of it.

It's the accountability portion. The high stakes testing.

If I start talking about the testing debacle, this post could get really long. It's how they decide to measure "true accountability."

First of all, pardon me, but I'm not 100% accountable for what progress a student makes. Know that I take my job seriously. It's a calling. I move he** and highwater to do everything within my power to help my kids find success. I am highly qualified and highly decorated. My standards are high. Ask any of the parents of any of the kids I've ever taught. But...if a kid does not show up on a regular basis...if a kid does not want to learn...if a kid has home problems that interfere with learning...if a kid has neurological problems...I am not responsible for all of the reasons why learning doesn't happen. But this legislation holds me accountable for all of them.

Second of all, know that the tests used to measure learning are deeply flawed. The measures themselves aren't measuring what the kid learned; they simply rank performance against all the other kids. Guess what...this kind of ranking means that THERE WILL ALWAYS BE KIDS "LEFT BEHIND." Because 100% of kids can't be "above average." Do the math. We know a certain percentage of kids will "fail" before anyone ever takes a test. It's like expecting all the runners in a race to cross the finish line at the same time, every time they race, so no one will be "behind." Or, in the case of NCLB, wanting all runners to cross the finish line ahead of 80 % of all the runners.

The legislation does not even stop at wanting all kids "above average." The legislation takes those percentile rankings measuring isolated, concrete skills, puts them into a weighted formula which ends up measuring nothing concrete, and calls that the individual school's "score." Now...no matter where the school's "score" falls, the school needs to improve, or it will be labeled "failing," and lose funding. And be vulnerable to takeover by government bureaucrats.

IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW GOOD THE TEST SCORES MIGHT ALREADY BE. EVERY SCHOOL HAS TO MAKE "ADEQUATE YEARLY PROGRESS." THAT'S THE "AYP" GOAL FOR IMPROVEMENT. If my test scores aren't better next year than they were this year, I'm in trouble. And they have to be better the year after that, and the year after that....maintaining high test scores aren't ok. No matter how high they go, they have to go higher, or my school will be labeled "failing." Who's accountable for the math written into the legislation?

State testing expenditures are going through the roof. Under threat of losing federal funding, states adopt texts and "programs" approved by the testocrats. Did I mention that standardized testing and textbook publishing are dominated by McGraw Hill, Houghton-Mifflin, and Harcourt General, all identified as "Bush stocks" by Wall Street Analysts in the wake of the 2000 election? (source...The nation feature story, January 28, 2002; I'll see if I can post it in the ed forum).

One of the first things that happens when a school doesn't meet the "AYP" goal is that the bureacrats come in and mandate big changes. Guess what the changes always include? Mandated scripted programs to replace any other type of teaching. Talk about one-size-fits-all. At this point, teachers are sanctioned for deviating in any way from the approved script. When the school doesn't meet it's goal twice, it can be disbanded, or "taken over."

Of course, as far as these test scores go, we've known for decades that these types of standardized tests do a better job of measuring parent's socio-economic and ed level than they do of measuring student academic performance in real life. And guess what? Testing poor kids and denying funding to the schools that serve them because they don't test where you want them to doesn't raise their performance any.

In the end, under this legislation, every school will be labeled failing, opening the gates to vouchers and privatization. Not exactly liberal causes.

I'm sure Kerry is a fine senator. I'm not attacking him or his candidacy. I am saying that he is wrong on NCLB, and that he isn't going to garner a lot of support from teachers if he doesn't see the light. We're the ones dealing with the NCLB fallout in the trenches. It isn't pretty. Plenty of kids are being left. It isn't helping anybody, and it is hurting many.

[Le Taz Hot]

23. Oh, LWolf

You, I and my husband could have a LONG discussion about this one. My husband, his partner and I -- all experienced educators -- started a business in February that addresses many of these issues and we're in the process of selling it to states. Our first client liked it so much they've renewed and EXPANDED the contract. We are expecting the results of our research and materials, along with their implementation should show an increase in test scores by about 40% the first year WITHOUT gimmickry. Sorry to sound like a commercial here but our goal was to honestly improve the education system and we truly believe in what we are doing.

[LWolf]

25. Hey, let's talk!

Why not start a thread over in Health/ed/social policy?

[SyracuseDemocrat]

46. All Nay votes were not Republican

Feingold and Hollings voted against NCLB, also.

[XanaDUer]

5. That bill had to get past Ted Kennedy

and nothing bad in an educational bill will get past TK. He approved everything in that act.

[LWolf]

6. I have to agree with you there.

I'm a teacher. I work in a large district; somewhere between 25 - 30K elementary students, last count. I've been working for this district for 20 years, and have connections all over the area.

Kerry could tell any auditorium full of our teachers that he wanted NCLB to be fully funded, and he would be met with stony silence. I've yet to meet a teacher that thought NCLB would help a single kid, or that applauded the legislation and just wished for more funding so that we could do more tests.

Saying "I don't want testing to be the be-all and end-all," while you're saying you support the legislation that puts testing in that position, isn't going to gain him any teachers' votes.

[Pavlovs DiOgie]

8. Bingo!

You hit the nail on the head!

From the posted article:

Kerry responded that states do not have to accept federal money. He defended his support of the bill's goals, saying it wasn't his fault that Bush has not provided enough money.

"We can't sit here and pretend there wasn't something to address," Kerry said of problems plaguing the education system. "Regrettably, this administration turned its back on the deal it made."

Administration officials and Republican lawmakers have insisted that the law is adequately funded.

Kerry acknowledged that the law needs to be changed. "I'm on your side," he said. "I don't want you to have to teach rote. I don't want testing to be the be-all and end-all."


NCLB is nothing but test test test. Heck, I have been TOLD by my admin to teach to the test because students MUST pass! Talk about your rote-teaching! There's hardly time to do fun, enriching activities anymore because of NCLB. Not to mention the fear of losing your job if students don't do better this year than last, regardless of how well they did previously. Funding NCLB wouldn't solve any problem. It needs to be 86'd and new laws that don't take away states' and school districts' rights need to be implemented.

I can't see major support from teachers for a candidate that supports NCLB. I sincerely wish that Kerry would look deeply into how NCLB is hurting kids, funded or not.

[LWolf]

12. I wished they all would.

Every dem candidate needs to speak out about this travesty. Part of the problem is that there are dems who support similar legislation at the state level. It's hard to back out of something that you've been promoting at home.

So far I've heard 3 candidates speak against it; Kucinich, Dean, and Braun. Dean is moderate on NCLB, like on other things. He doesn't oppose the testing, per se, but the usurping of local control. I heard Braun mention it recently; I don't remember what she said, but she dissed it. And Kucinich brought it up on his "hear it from the heartland" CSpan segment; a brief thing about de-funding schools when children don't pass tests and funding defense contracts whose products don't pass tests in production. So I asked him specifically about high stakes testing when I saw him in Santa Ana, and he debunked the whole test thing; He told me he opposes "testocrats." He wants to improve public education by fully funding it from pre-school through college, and fully supporting schools in their efforts. He does not want funding connected to test scores. He wants schools to leave creativity, thinking, curiosity, the arts, and...fun! in the curriculum. He wants to address poor performance by
addressing poverty.

[DrFunkenstein]

13. WTH? Do I Talk To Myself?

Almost every major educational group sponsored the Harkin Amendment. That is the type of reforms that Kerry wants to see done to the LNCB Act.

Jesus Christ, if this isn't the Iraq vote all over again. No matter how many times, no matter how many ways he says that his policies are drastically different than the current regime, you still get - "but he voted for the bill, he must support everything Bush does."

[George_Bonanza]

14. LOL, nicely said Doctor Funk

What's the Harkin Amendment? I'm lost here...

The Leave No Child Behind Act seems to be a liberal bill. Is this true?

[DrFunkenstein]

16. There's A Link In My First Post From Truthout.org

Even Wellstone, who slammed the final draft (but voted for it), fully backed the Harkin version.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

15. It's kind of ironic in a thread about education reform

It's kind of ironic in a thread about education reform to see the shallow understanding a lot of folks have about the legislative process, the U.S. Constitution, and how our government works.

[Pavlovs DiOgie]

19. Ed groups

I couldn't give a rats ass what 'educational groups' think...they are not in the classroom! The fact is that Kerry stands behind NCLB, a law which doesn't need any reform, it needs to be trashed.

From Kerry's website:

Keep the Promises of “No Child Left Behind:” John Kerry voted for the No Child Left Behind education reform law. The plan gave states flexibility in using federal funds to address local needs and promised extra aid to help students from low-income families reach high standards. However, unless schools receive the resources they were promised and respect they deserve, the new law will fail and inequality will persist. Where the Bush Administration sought to cut funding for school reform and issued restrictive guidelines, John Kerry will fund the new effort and ensure states have the flexibility to meet the goals of the law.

[DrFunkenstein]

29. Um, Actually The NEA Is In The Classroom

NEA has a long, proud history as the nation's leading organization committed to advancing the cause of public education. With its headquarters in Washington, D.C., NEA has 2.7 million members who work at every level of education, from pre-school to university graduate programs. NEA has affiliates in every state, as well as in more than 13,000 local communities across the United States.

http://www.nea.org/

Are you going to give them a rat's ass?

"Where the Bush Administration sought to cut funding for school reform and issued restrictive guidelines, John Kerry will fund the new effort and ensure states have the flexibility to meet the goals of the law."

Kerry treats LNCB like he does the Kyoto Treaty and NAFTA. They are flawed, some severely, but he proposes major reforms instead of scrapping them altogether. Why? Because reforms pass Congress, revolutions rarely do.

[Pavlovs DiOgie]

30. Nope, and I don't give them my money either :)

And the local union here is absolutely ridiculous. I have yet to see them truly advocate for the teachers. We have had one raise in ten years, and it is expected we will not see another for 6-8 years. If they aren't fighting for the teachers, who do you suppose they are fighting for?

[Pavlovs DiOgie]

31. Take a look

at the teachers posting here about how awful NCLB is. Who do you think knows more about how this law is affecting our children, the people who see our children 5 days per week, or educrats?

[DrFunkenstein]

39. I'm A First Year Teacher Myself

Just completed a year of teaching 26 lovely fourth-graders. You don't have to tell me about the problems with NCLB. What I would like to know, however, is where Dean diverges from Kerry and, as a model, the Harkin amendment.

Like the Patriot Act, I can't see the difference between them. They both say the Patriot Act and NCLB are programs that need overhaul reform, not scrapping.

John Kerry's sister is a teacher for Boston Public Schools. I am sure he is not uninformed about the problems teachers face (note: she was recently laid off).

PS - I don't take anecdotal evidence as the end of any conversation.

[Pavlovs DiOgie]

44. Where Dean diverges from Kerry

is that he wants that law gone. If nothing else was changed by the federal gov't about education other than repealing NCLB, then education just got a HUGE boost.

[LWolf]

47. Please see responses 28 and 35.

n/t

[AfricanDonkey]

50. That is not the point of that act

If you read the bill and hear some testimony on the bill by the AEA and other groups then you would see that the bill is great legislativly because it frees up the ability for Washington to bypass states and give money directly to the schools.

It got rid of a lot of redtape for administrators, but if your school still has a bad principal then no washington mandate can fix that.

[Nicholas_J]

9. Yes Dean refused to accept it in Vermont

And then did a flip flop and signed onto it as Governor.

Why?

[bandy]

7. Education is so important to me

being a grandmother... but I have to find the humor in the fact that Florida schools failed by 88% or more of "no child left behind". Jeb is gloating over the FCat but according to his big bro - Fla schools are not up to standard. WHAT THE HELL ARE THEY DOING TO OUR EDUCATION SYSTEM? AND WHY? So my grandaughter will join the army? that will be the day that hell freezes over!

[Feanorcurufinwe]

10. We don't need to test more, we need to teach more.

We don't need to test more, we need to teach more. All students should be required to take at least 6 years of a foreign language. Curricula should include several segments on logic and critical analysis at different grade levels. Public school is way too easy in the US! Students need to learn to think if we are going to expect them to make informed choices as citizens. Of course that is the last thing the Bushies want.

[Egnever]

11. Well said!

I couldnt agree more!

[bandy]

17. I could not agree more but...

Jeb has taken a bad situation in Fla. and made it 10 times worse. We have kids that can't speak english but are expected to take the FCat, not to mention the mentally handycapped, the deprived, the deaf, the blind, all in one box. But what is interesting is that students that do well in reading, math, etc. and make the honor roll but like me (can't pass a typing test, but was a typesetter for 13 years), can't pass the FCat. It sucks, it demeans, it deminishes the self esteam. It is a crying shame and I can't stand to see this happening to our kids. I don't have it in me to hate but I sure loath what Jeb and W have done and are doing to our education system. Our colleges and universities are at risk and no one is defending them. What to do, what to do??????

[LWolf]

20. What to do?

1. Throw the bums out.

2. Educate yourselves about the true consequences, and agenda, behind the legislation. Then ask some teachers what they need to better serve students, and ask them what the students need to be more successful.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

21. Your not asking me to defend Jeb are you? lol

Your not asking me to defend Jeb are you? lol I'm not sure how your posting about the evil Jeb in Florida is related to my post where I said I think our schools need to be more rigorous and require a foreign language etc. Is Jeb requiring schools to include logic in their curricula or are they making a foreign language requirement as I suggested ?

[Pavlovs DiOgie]

22. Happening in Vegas too!

I about fell out of my chair this week when my d.c. told me what was handed to him by our regional superintendent: that once I give my kids a unit test, I cannot move on to the next subject until all of the students who didn't pass get a chance to be retaught and retested, because hey, no child can be left behind. That means that 90% of my students are stuck with "enriching" (read: bullshit) lessons until I have time to pull 10% aside and reteach them the entire unit. Note that the way I teach, the only way to fail my tests is to not come to school enough and/or not do any work whatsoever during the unit lessons. Translation: those kids who I stop to reteach will usually fail again, because they will still not come to school, study, or pay attention in class. These are the kids who come to school hungry, beaten or ignored by parents, and/or are given no parental encouragement to do well in school. These kids are sadly the ones who often fall between the cracks, but not due to lack of teacher support. Education is like a 3 legged stool, one leg being the teacher, one the student, one the parents. Without parental support (which teachers have little control over) or student motivation (teachers have a degree of control, but parents have much more control in this area), the child will fail.

[DrFunkenstein]

42. This Problem Is Exasperated By Large Classrooms

Where it is next to impossible to set aside 22-23 kids while you teach one-on-one with 5 kids (five-on-one?) to catch them up. And sometimes there is just no catching them up. Which means that the schools are going to need more resource teachers for inclusive (if possible) work in the classroom, and that costs money as well.

Like you said, this would be less of a problem if there was structure at home, but sadly that is all-too-often not the case. Even some of my brightest students had no concept of social structure, time management, or sometimes even just plain attention span. This puts an even greater burden on teachers.

[revcarol]

24. The "testocracy" (Kucinich) line is fatally flawed...

the idea that you can test and test and test and not teach to the test, have your whole curriculum geared toward the test,and really end up with well-educated students who will function in a non-test society where originality, creativity,functioning on a rational basis, critical thinking are not emphasized...totally flawed.

I worked in the Texas system where they had the TAAS(before Bush and before the "Leave Every Child Behind" Act.I was removed from the classroom to become a curriculum specialist in improving skills "measured " by the TAAS in the field of high school Social Studies.I concentrated on improving SS vocabulary skills, map reading and data interpretation skills, drawing conclusions from facts presented, being able to tell what pertinent facts WERE OMITTED from a given reading passage, testing basic SS concepts, and moving students from a reading level of 6th grade level to a reading level of 8th grade(for a graduation test to be taken in the 11th grade.)

THAT WASN'T GOOD ENOUGH. I had to go back and design 61 lessons to make them easier to read, no drawing of conclusions from data,no critical thinking....

And all the while, the school district was spending 6(SIX!!)weeks on nothing but test-taking skills, and how to guess the right answers by eliminating choices especially in math...Even Honors English had to spend DAYS learning how to write a three paragraph answer to a given question.SHEESH!!
Most of these students came from very poor economic circumstances; English was not the first language for about 40% of the students; they needed more exposure to ENRICHING LESSONS AND ACTIVITIES, not even more limitations on what they could learn.

Standards can be high without this slavery to testing.Just adding money to enrich the designers of tests does not solve the basic problem: that teachers and students need to be MORE creative in teaching and learning.

Motivation of the students is completely stifled by this "teach to the test" strategy.

More and more administrators are encouraging low-performing students to drop out and "get your GED" so that test scores will be higher.And, of course, no one tracks how many get their GED...

Kerry is totally WRONG and I do not hesitate to say it!!

[rcglenn]

26. NCLB is the WORST PIECE OF EDUCATIONAL LEGISLATION IN HISTORY!

I come from a family of educators, so I know the TERRIBLE effects that it puts on the youth of our society. This crazy legislation puts so many federal mandates on the school system, that students are only being taught to master a test, rather than real world problems. A school must pass 21 of 21 different categories in testing scores. (such overall improvement of scores, briding the gap btwn minorities and whites, etc.)If a school passes 20 of the 21 categories they are labeled failing and will lose federal funding. I totally agree that the goal of NCLB is awesome and wonderful! However, this is NOT the way to bring success in the classroom. It upsets me tremendously to see politicians act like they are God's gift to education, when they are clueless.
This piece of legislation should be burned. Any true liberal who believes in the public educational system should being yelling from the rooftops about this crap. The true purpose of NCLB is to fail as many schools as possible to allow for private schools and vouchers to take their place. PLEASE LET US ALL TAKE THIS INSANE LEGISLATION OUT!!!!

[rcglenn]

27. this is why i WILL NOT vote for Kerry

I can not vote for a man/women who supports such terrible legislation, just to make him/herself look good. Kerry's vote helped to bring down the public educational system. Let's take it back from him! Only Howard Dean is speaking out about the terrible effects NCLB are bringing on the public school system. Dean is not only irrate about the lack of funding the program is getting, he is upset with the terrible legislation it is! Let's fix this problem, vote for the man who cares.....HOWARD DEAN!!!

[DrFunkenstein]

32. Where Are You Getting This From?

As far as I can see, Dean is proposing the same types of reforms that Kerry is for this "unfunded mandate." I see no evidence of a desire to scrap the program. In fact, Dean touts the strength of Vermont's current testing system.

This is where I'm getting my info from:

http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/PageServer?pagename=policy_statement_education

http://www.nysut.org/newyorkteacher/2002-2003/030423dean.html

Where are you getting yours from?

[killbotfactory]

33. Dean's program helps schools that need help

It doesn't defund them.

It also doesn't use standardized tests.

[Pavlovs DiOgie]

34. Yup

He likes his states' testing program. I bet he likes that his state got to chose their program (did so before NCLB was enacted, I believe), which is a right of the state. Here's where he touts his unhappiness of this stupid law:

"He said many NCLB provisions, such as school prayer and providing high school students' names for military recruiting, deal with policies that should be decided at the local level. He said if he were still Vermont governor, his state would refuse the NCLB money to remain autonomous."

http://www.nysut.org/newyorkteacher/2002-2003/030423dean.html

Since he would, if still governor, refuse to follow NCLB at the risk of losing federal funding, that tells me he 1)believes in states' rights when it comes to education (read: federal gov't should keep their hands out of state decisions in education) and 2)he doesn't see any value of this law, since he wouldn't use it. While not clearly saying he would repeal NCLB, there is an indicator that he might.

Just so you know, I like what Edwards has said on education best of all the candidates. I like what Kerry and Lieberman have said least. I'd like to see Dean give a straightforward answer to the question of if he'd repeal NCLB, but I haven't seen anyone ask him. If I ever get to meet him, you bet I will ask!

[killbotfactory]

36. Dean on NCLB

I think we ought to get rid of No Child Left Behind in its entirety. If Dodd-Miller were to pass, I think that's terrific. Let the federal government fund it. I do not support unfunded mandates, which is the principal problem with No Child Left Behind, other than its name.

http://www.gwu.edu/~action/2004/dc040903/cdf040903trd.html

[Pavlovs DiOgie]

37. Wow

I wish he'd make that plainer on his website and during debates/forums. Getting rid of NCLB in its entirety is an excellent start to fixing the problems in education.

[DrFunkenstein]

43. He Wants To Scrap It Because It Is Unfunded?

"What we need is the kind of approach that we took in Vermont. We don't have those kinds of unfunded mandates. We have accountability testing. We have a testing system that's so hard that not one school in the state meets the standards."

So, Dean wants to leave behind NCLB because it is unfunded, just like he wouldn't support Dodd-Miller if it were unfunded? It doesn't seem like he has much problem with strenuous testing. It seems more like he supports a mandate based on the funding. This doesn't make sense, so I am willing to see more before passing any judgement.

[killbotfactory]

48. Not just because it's underfunded...

But because it will label good schools as failing, and then defund them.

[DrFunkenstein]

40. Kerry On NCLB And States' Rights

"Where the Bush Administration sought to cut funding for school reform and issued restrictive guidelines, John Kerry will fund the new effort and ensure states have the flexibility to meet the goals of the law."

Which part do you like the least?

"I'd like to see Dean give a straightforward answer to the question of if he'd repeal NCLB, but I haven't seen anyone ask him."

If Dean truly supported repealing NCLB, do you really think he would keep it a secret?

[Pavlovs DiOgie]

45. somewhere in this thread

was posted the quote and a link where he said he'd get rid of it. While I'd still like to see it on his webpage and a part of his stump speech, I have a feeling that as the campaign continues, we will see all the candidates hone in on their stances and make definitive statements. It's my hope that Dean will say he is for repealing NCLB. Kerry has already said he won't.

[LWolf]

35. Many states had this type of testing/accountability system in place

before it went federal with NCLB.

NCLB clones programs begun in CA under Pete Wilson, in Texas under GWB, and in Florida under Jeb, to name a few of the more prominent.

The teachers you hear speak most clearly against NCLB have been dealing with its forerunner at the state level for a decade. That's why we oppose it. The NEA is just now beginning to open it's blind eyes and raise its behemoth head off of the pillow, now that every single state, and every single teacher and kid in the nation are facing it.

Here's a July 14th position on NCLB from the NEA; note the part about testing:

http://www.nea.org/esea/eseaamend.html

DrFunkenstein, Kerry is not the only candidate who voted for this mess or who currently supports it in some form.

As a teacher, I'll forgive the vote for any candidate who will speak out against high-stakes testing. My dream would be to have a candidate propose repealing the whole mess. This is a good point in the campaigns to pin them down about it. I got to do that with the candidate of my choice, DK. He does not support high-stakes testing. I have also heard Braun speak out against it. Edwards supports high-stakes testing, at least from what I've found so far. I'd like to hear from all of the candidates on this issue.

[LWolf]

28. Let's take NCLB out of Kerry's thread

and put it in health/ed/social services.

It is a huge issue, and people need to be more aware of the actual consequences happening in your local classrooms right now.

With a better understanding of the legislation, we can better judge where every candidate stands.

You can start with the article in this thread; it's long but informative:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=117&topic_id=319

[dsc]

38. One of the biggest problems hasn't been addressed here yet

The NCLB law put new requirements on both teachers and aides in regard to qualification. In some districts the new teacher standards will have the bizarre effect of replacing a single, permanent, 'unqualified' year round teacher with a merry go round of 'unqualified' teachers. In at least some of these cases the unqualified teacher is merely waiting to fulfill a technical requirement. Many big city and rural can't find enough teachers to go around. It also will require teachers to be certified in every class they teach. In many rural districts that will be a tough standard to meet. It may well totally eliminate foreign language from many rural schools.

The aide provision is even worse. It requires 2 years of college for a job which pays around 8 to 10 an hour. That is wholly unneeded for most aides and will cause many of them to leave the field entirely. Any teacher of SBH, MH. or kindergarden can tell you the disaster that would be.

Neither of these provisions were ever fully funded. No provisions were made to subsidize the education of these aides.
Add the significant testing problems to the mix and it was a very bad bill.

[DrFunkenstein]

41. I Heard About This On NPR

But I haven't seen any candidates directly address it, beyond giving flexibility to the states to best fulfill the goals of optimum achievement.

[AfricanDonkey]

49. I think the NCLB act has some flaws but the logic is correct

Why not ask for standards?

[Pavlovs DiOgie]

51. It looks ok on paper

But in practice it's a complete failure. Look at the posts made by teachers on this thread, and you will see what I mean.