When you think about it, Larry King really scored a coup last night . . .

[ProfessorPlum]

he had both the next President and Vice President of the United States on the air in one show.

His producers should be really pleased with themselves. :)

[CMT]

1. pretty optimistic?

but I like the idea. My top ticket would be Dean/Richardson but I could enthusiastically support Dean/Graham as well.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

2. I'm not quite ready to say it yet, but....

Dean is closing in on locking this thing up. The only thing that can stop him is if Kerry, the only other contender, imho, stops "pacing himself" and puts the full force of his campaign and budget into overdrive. Only one candidate's numbers are rising. All others are either in stasis or plummeting. With 5+ months to go to the caucus/primary season, the writing is nearly on the wall.

[AngryYoungMan]

3. Wait until the attack machine starts.

Then we'll see what's what. Dukakis was looking good too, until "Boston Harbor," Bernard Shaw, and Willie Horton.

We haven't yet seen how Dean reacts when a skeleton is pulled from his closet. That's where Clinton excelled—and where Gore gave them "no controlling legal authority."

[ProfessorPlum]

4. true, true

but I think Dean has already proven he is a much different kind of campaigner than Dukakis. Dukakis couldn't even learn from his own advice to "fight back quickly" when you are attacked.

[AngryYoungMan]

5. Right...

Remember, though, that he said that only in retrospect, when asked what he'd learned from his defeat.

I'm just nitpicking. Of course you're correct.

But the opposition is at its scariest when doing that stuff. If Dean burned a draft card or kissed an African American woman or stole a library book, they'll blast it across the red states continuously.

[ProfessorPlum]

7. see, I don't think Dean will be too "cordial" to fight fire with fire

The biggest problem Dems have now (in my opinion, with respect to Republicans) is that they don't like to point out what goddamned hypocrites the Republicans are. I guess they feel it lowers them to "their level".

But I think Dean would be only too happy to get into a pissing match with them and show everyone their outrageous hypocrisy.

question: Are you sure that Dukakis didn't make his comment about fighting back quickly before his debate where they asked him (hypothetically) about his wife being raped?

[AngryYoungMan]

10. Reasonably sure...

But I could be wrong. Remember that he did "damage control" on his Bernie Shaw flub during the half-hour ad each candidate did election night.

I remember those half-hour ads well, since Bush's was just so insulting. They had him ladling gazpacho from a stewpot, and that old bag Barbara talked about her "literacy program" (as if she's ever cared about anything virtuous in her life).

The thing is, you're right and I'm wrong. Not because of Dukakis' campaign details, but because I'm forgetting how tepid our support for Dukakis was even at its strongest. He just didn't have sex appeal (not in the Mel Gibson sense but in the political sense that Dean has it).

[ProfessorPlum]

15. gazpacho

that says so much. You are undoubtedly right about the timing of it. At least we have his experience to help us along this time.

[gristy]

6. Is it possible that the bushco attack machine

will have nothing but slippery mud from which to fire from? IF they find anything, they may simply end up making themselves look silly.

[AngryYoungMan]

8. Quite possible

But, as I've pointed out elsewhere in this thread, we HAVEN'T SEEN how Dean reacts to this stuff. We've only seen him react to softballs from Larry King and the like.

Remember that Bush "won" debates with Gore. I still don't understand quite how he did it, but that's what "happened."

Desperate, machine-gun-style attacks from the Right, combined with the inaction of a complacent (or complicit) press, is a formidable obstacle. And they've gotten better at it. Clinton's gift was that he could smile and kick them in the balls, and people just saw the smile.

[ProfessorPlum]

12. Bob Somerby has outlined Bush's "wins" in the debates

Especially the first one. Bush's performance was so bad, even the really bad presstitutes said after they saw it that Gore won. Then someone a couple of days later started talking about how Gore "sighed too much" and we were off to the races.

Search www.dailyhowler.com for "debate" and read some of the magical "conversions" pundits had from right after the debate to a few days or weeks later when they suddenly "remembered" how Bush actually won the debate. Pretty amazing stuff.

I like that - that's what "happened". That's exactly how I would put it too.

If Dean can't survive the attacks which will inevitably come against him, I'm not sure who in our field will. He certainly responds quickly (as in the case of the DLC) to attacks, though.

[AngryYoungMan]

13. Agreed, agreed, agreed.

You and I seem to circle around the same posts. It's fun to discuss this stuff with you---you seem very smart.

[ProfessorPlum]

14. Thanks AYM

just addicted to reading about this stuff. I'm fascinated by "the killers in high places who say their prayers out loud", to paraphrase Leonard Cohen.

I'm just glad someone remembers and sees this stuff in some of the same ways I do.

Take care,
PP

[CMT]

9. well actually we have seen how Dean reacts when he is being

dismissed. Remember how the media virtually wrote him off after the Meet the Press appearance? They were savage but Dean never wavered and just moved on and reveed up his supporters even more. In fact, I consider the MTP apperance as the turning point of his campaign now.
Why? His supporters in the wake of the bad reviews became even more committed because of the attacks by the DLC and pundits.

[AngryYoungMan]

11. Yeah, you're right about all of that.

The DLC relationship is the main reason I'm so ecstatic about Dean. I HATE those bastards; I never dreamed that a candidate would become a front runner by outflanking them. It's wonderful.

[caledesi]

17. Good point CMT. I emailed Tim Russert with a scathing message.

[caledesi]

16. Well * had enough skeletons to fill a closet and look what happened?

Also Dean has been prepared for this race for 2 years. He knows what these thugs are going to do and I would think is very well-armed.
Bring 'em on.