What's all this ABB Nonsense?

[Hep]

I don't see very many ABB people at DU anymore. People claim they are in one breath and then vehemently oppose a certaincandidate in the next. If you are ABB, you PROMOTE OUR PARTY, you focus on the B. It's more than obvious to me that many people here are NOT ABB at all. They are actually ABBOD. Actually, considering the fact that they spend more time dissing Dean than any other candidate INCLUDING Bush, I'd say thay're just ABD. Politics? Maybe. Pathetic? Definitely.

[Bucky]

1. coupla points

1- DU ain't the whole Democratic party.

2- A constant reiteration of ABB is not necessary for us to know that, when the Fall comes, we will be united in purpose, cause, and candidates

3- There is no point three.

[Hep]

3. A coupla responses!

1- DU ain't the whole Democratic party.

I'm only talking about DU. I'm not talking about in general.

2- A constant reiteration of ABB is not necessary for us to know that, when the Fall comes, we will be united in purpose, cause, and candidates

Not true. I will not unite with anyone who chose to insult me and trivialize what my campaign is all about. It sounds overly sensitive, but frankly, I have dignity. I will not unite with anyone whose purpose was to cause harm to my candidate. Check my sig.

3- There is no point three.

I disagree. I think there IS a point three and that you are purposefully keeping point three from me because you hate me.

;)

[Bucky]

32. Point three

[kclown]

64. Two rules for success in life:

1. Never tell everything you know.

[vi5]

2. I've seen just as many Dean supporters...

Say they weren't voting for certain candidates if they are the nominee.

Not saying I haven't heard it from others, but let's not make this out to be a one sided phenomenon.

[Hep]

5. It IS one sided

If you can't recognize that what you are seeing from Dean supporters is a REACTION, I can't convince you of anything.

[vi5]

14. O.K. then explain this to me....

If you are saying that the people who have been posting on here will ultimately vote ABB but the posts I've seen concerning this saying "I will never vote for Kerry!" are simply momentary reactions then I will accept that. Even though many of these people were saying this before Iowa. But I'll give benefit of the doubt.

If that's not what you are saying and instead are saying that only Dean supporters are entitled to say that they won't support the eventual nominee then I'm not sure how that's exactly fair.

[Hep]

19. Well, you have a point

People who said "I won't vote for Kerry" are entitled to that, but yes, do serve as an exception to my point. Thanks for pointing that out.

Those people existed on all sides from the start as well. Since they are common to all the campaigns, I just dismissed them. I should have mentioned that.

[FreeperSlayer]

4. I'd suggest you read this thread from yesterday

After Iowa, it turned into NBD day. Please, look at who the "stay-ay-homers" and the "ABB is a myth" folk support.



http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=155271

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=155271#155465

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=155271#155402

[Hep]

8. Like I said

You guys choose to look at the reaction as if it is the action. If you can't trace the cause of this, you don't understand what I'm talking about.

"Sick of attacks on Dean's character"

You have to EARN my vote. And you don't do that by mocking me or my candidate. I might just be shallow enough to refuse to vote for YOUR guy just because you (not YOU specifically) acted like an asshole for six months. No matter what, the status quo will win, which means I lose.

[FreeperSlayer]

10. Like I said

Dean wins Iowa, and none of this is posted; none of it! ABB would be alive and thriving.
I don't support any candidate but the final nominee.
We must have a say in at least ONE branch of government!

[Hep]

12. It's not true.

Dean wins Iowa and the baseless, childish attacks on Dean continue. ABB would continue to be dead in the water.

[Democrats unite]

17. We here on DU don't have to earn anything!

Politics is Politics. If people can't handle it they need to move on. I am sick and tired of NBD crowd! reign in your own supporters before talking of others. We know who can't handle the reactions here & it's palin to see where they get it from.

[Hep]

20. If people can't handle it, look out.

It's not plain to see where they get it from unless you are one of the mindless simps who falls for the media's clowning. Those folks might as well be republicans because they have no use in MY democratic party. They're ballast. Moderately helpful in election years and totally useless the rest of the time.

Now, what were you saying?

[Democrats unite]

24. "MY democratic party"?

And how your talking about ABB here? Please!


Now, what were you saying?

[Hep]

26. Yeah MY democratic party

Remember, I have the power. I really do. It's MY party, it's YOUR party. Well, apparently not YOURS, since you don't want to take the reigns.

See, you still don't get it. It IS my party. It is the party of whoever decides to make a difference. The best part is that even if Dean loses, at least where I live, the party is better off, which means that better people will be elected as comissioners, judges, state congressmen, etc. And from there, better US congressmen and better candidates for higher offices.

This is what it's about. MY PARTY. You don't want to claim it, fine. But you can't claim that you don't have to chance.

[boxster]

47. I love the fact that you're chastising ABD people by being NBD.

If it isn't your way, why bother, right? And, if your candidate doesn't get the nomination, screw the rest of us.

How does that logic work?

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[boxster]

52. "21. I won't vote ABB anyway."

Perhaps you should read your own subject lines.

Edit: Oh, and thanks for yet another "I'm smarter than you" comment. I appreciate it.

[Hep]

56. Uh, OK, so NDB = not ABB?

I think you have some jupiter sized holes in your logic there, B. NDB means only Dean. Not ABB means maybe anyone but one guy. See the difference? In case you don't, the difference is something like SIX PEOPLE.

Thanks.

I can read my subject lines just fine, thanks. Not only can I read them, I know what they mean.

[Hep]

63. Hey I just realized you're from Omaha.

I have a soft spot in my heart for Omaha. Just so you know.

I'll bet you thought I was going to disparage you for being in Omaha!

[vi5]

18. Wait a second...so your vote has to be earned but theirs doesn't?

Explain this to me. You're saying you are a Dean supporter so your vote has to be earned by the other candidates or you won't vote ABB.

But that Kerry, or Clark, or Edwards supporters or undecideds should not expect Dean to earn their vote?

Oh, that's rich.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bowens43]

6. Promote our party??

When did party become more important then ideology? I am not ABB. Never will be. If the nominee is someone I believe to be bad for the party or the country , I will NOT support him. ABB is bad for the party. It lowers our standards and makes the win more important then the result. ABB gives the candidates a pass to be more conservative, more bush like. If they want my vote, they have to earn it.

Third party is always an option.

[Hep]

11. Party became more important than ideaology at the precise moment

that our party hit the ropes. We're down for the count. We're in serious trouble. From the local level all the way up to the top, D's are threatened. R rule is all but a given if we don't set aside petty differences and promote our party.

And the greatest evidence of this: The black vote. In my county, which is heavily liberal with a strong black base, the number of black independents has gone from less than 100 to 5000 in the past few decades. I see the exact same thing among my white friends. Our party is DOOMED if we don't hold it together. Dean's the only one who's talking about doing that.

I agree with you that ABB opens the door for mediocrity.

[library_max]

65. "Third party is always an option."

An option for what? Throwing away your vote? You might as well write in your own name as vote third party.

Politics has always been about choice between the items on the menu. If you want Dean to be the nominee, push for Dean. But if the nominee turns out to be someone else, then Dean won't be on the menu, and it'll be Bush or the other guy. If you're a Dean supporter, how can you possibly be for Dean and not against Bush?

The win IS the result, or else the loss is the result. There ain't no other result.

Wait and see. If Dean gets the nomination, I'll be honored and delighted to vote for him and support him any way I can. But if he doesn't, I'll bet you anything that he throws his support to the Democratic nominee.

[CWebster]

7. Why should Dean supporters be cheering on candidates

and their supporters whose intent seems to be, along with the Right, destroying Dean, while propping up candidates who barely put up any resistance at all to the worst, the very worst administration that ever grabbed power in my lifetime? Why should we reward them?

Yet, you demand that we line right up after that abuse, while you give yourself the luxury of ABD.

[polpilot]

36. Go to the DLC website and read. I certainly won't be a party to this group

Today's DLC's commentary lets me know that I'm am diametrically opposed to these guys.

Dean '04...Time for the 3rd party!!

[library_max]

67. Gee, if any of that were true, you'd have a devastating point.

As matters stand, most of the other major candidates' supporters are ABB and perfectly willing to vote for Dean in the general election if he is the nominee. Poll after poll and thread after thread have confirmed this, before and after Iowa. "Barely put up any resistance at all" can only mean didn't take a gun and shoot the man, since the Republicans control the White House, both houses of Congress, and the judiciary. And ABD is pretty much a figment of your imagination. Who, except NBD supporters, is talking about ABD?

[boxster]

9. Look at DU polls, as they discount your assertion.

Or start a new one. There are plenty of ABB people at DU. Even many of us who think Dean hurt his candidacy immensely with his rant will still vote for him if he's the eventual nominee.

In fact, if you review posts this week, my guess is that you'll find many more Dean supporters that fit your assertion than those of other candidates. Many of them openly state that he's the only candidate they will support in November.

[Hep]

13. There are plenty who SAY or THINK they are ABB

but have demonstrated their ABD leanings from the start.

And the Dean supporters posting Kerry threads left and right is a RESPONSE. It's a COMMENTARY. And IMO, it's warranted.

[boxster]

34. ABD in the primaries is one thing; ABD in the GE is quite another.

Too many Dean supporters seem to have difficulty understanding why they are completely separate and distinct issues. I have little doubt that most people who are ABD in the primaries will be ABB in the general election.

The problem is: can you say the same about the NBD people? Will they vote for the nominee if it is not Dean? Many say that they absolutely will not.

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[boxster]

37. Bull

That's crap and you (should) know it.

If you're ABD in the primaries, it's because you believe he is the weakest of the major candidates, which right now, that's exactly what I believe. I believe that Clark, Edwards, and Kerry all have a better shot at beating Bush, and I believe that they are overall better candidates.

If Dean wins the nomination anyway, he's still light-years better than Bush, so he gets my vote regardless of why I don't like him in the primaries.

How is that hypocritical? The two decisions have nothing to do with each other.

On the contrary, I think Dean supporters who claim that they're trying to save the party that also state that they will support no one but Dean in November are the ultimate in hypocritical. Yes, we'll save the party by giving Bush 4 more years.

Would you disagree?

[Hep]

38. It's not crap at all.

I'm discouraged at the notion that you can spend months upon months spitting on a candidate and then turn around and support him. It's foolish.

The two decisions have everything to do with each other. Because you (not you specifically) chose to dis a candidate INSTEAD of supporting your own or dissing Bush. You actively fought AGAINST a person instead of FOR another. To turn around and give him your support is inane. Unless of course you preface it by apologizing for being a jerk.

Again, none of this is aimed at YOU, but rather "you" as in anyone. And it goes for people who support Dean but dis other candidates all the time.

We won't save the party by giving any given D the presidency. We might save some social programs, we might save a few lives, but our party will still be on the endangered species list.

And I've recently converted to ABB, thanks to one of the posters here.

[boxster]

39. I have never once "spit" on Howard Dean.

As a matter of fact, until this rant of his, he was very likely my #2. Assuming that anyone who criticizes Dean must have spent the past few months actively campaigning against him is where you are making an inaccurate assessment. Not just of me, but of many people who don't think he's the best guy for the job. It is certainly possible for people to think he's not the best candidate without actively campaigning against him.

I have spent months watching his supporters spout arrogance and condescencion with the understanding that a candidate does not equate to his supporters and trying desperately to keep them apart in my judgment. Many told everyone this race was over, so we should just shut up about it and jump on the Howard bandwagon.

Forgive us for not wanting to do that just yet.

I am also, however, realistic and understand that a one-day, 7% drop in the NH polls and his inexplicable performance in Iowa, losing by 20%, means his candidacy is possibly over. Like it or not, he is suddenly a national punch line and is NOT a viable candidate unless a miracle occurs and he turns this around.

I am not fighting actively against Howard Dean. I am fighting FOR someone who actually has a legitimate chance of beating Bush, because that, right or wrong, is my first priority. My personal preference is Wesley Clark, who I have supported vigorously and will continue to do so, but I would be perfectly happy seeing Kerry or Edwards fight Bush next November.

I will vote for Dean without question should he win, but I do not think he is the best candidate to face Bush. Just because I do not think he's the best candidate to represent us does not mean that I don't support him.

[Hep]

40. I was very clear in not singling YOU out. I made it a point.

And you ignored it. Why?

Dean remains viable. To think that one caucus can end a candidacy would require a level of ignorance of the process tantamount to sheer lunacy.

[boxster]

41. Maybe because you didn't bother to do so until your next-to-last post?

For the record, that was after you called me a hypocrite and an asshole.

Dean's down to 17% in NH. If he ends up 3rd or 4th, he's in serious trouble.

Do you disagree?

No, lunacy is ignoring the fact that Dean's campaign is in serious trouble and acting like nothing has to change.

Dean needs a miracle turnaround, because momentum is a huge factor here. He has exactly zero at the moment.

[Hep]

42. You mean the post you replied to?

Does that mean you didn't even bother to read it?

[boxster]

43. Nope, it didn't mean much to me since it came after a post in which

you called me a hypocrite and an asshole.

Should it have?

[Hep]

49. But but but

you said you didn't do those things against Dean, so how could it have applied to you?

What kind of logic are you employing?

[boxster]

55. Perhaps you should learn how to not use the word "you" if it is not what

you intend. There are alternatives.

"You" means "the person to whom I are speaking".

If you didn't mean me personally (and I was somewhat sure when you said it that you did not), you should have said something like, "People who are ABD...are assholes", and not said that I, personally, was an asshole.

There is a difference, though I would be shocked if you are capable of acknowledging that. Because that would mean admitting that I made a statement of some veracity.

I must admit, however, that I'm impressed at the extraordinary level of your stubbornness and eagerness to name-call and condescend.

Even when proven wrong, you defend completely false statements to the death and then you attack to cover the falsity of your statements. No wonder you're supporting Dean.

I hope you and your candidate enjoy the rest of the campaign.

Goodbye.

[Hep]

58. Prehaps you should read my posts twice.

What could be more clear than "not you specifically"? Seriously, what's confusing about that?

WOW.

[boxster]

46. By the way, your initial premise is flawed. See post #45.

[Hep]

50. It's not flawed at all.

The only flaw in my argument would have to be that it's too hard to figure out.

[boxster]

53. You argued that we're all ABD.

The poll proves otherwise.

But, then, everyone but you is lying, so what do we know?

[Name removed]

57. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[boxster]

60. Ah, semantics and another attack.

Have a nice life in your own little world.

[Hep]

61. Since when is the difference between "all" and, "many" mere semantics?

The term semantics connotes ambiguity. There's nothing ambiguous about the difference between ALL and MANY.

Or maybe you meant the more accurate definition of semantics, the study of meanings, in which yes, I'm engaging in pointing out the differences in the meanings of words.

[Cassandra]

15. I'm still ABB

I'm a Dean supporter, but will vote for the Democratic candidate. I think Kerry, Clark and Edwards (and Kucinich)have much to recommend them and any of them would make a much better president than * will ever hope to be. I am glad that I don't have to add Lieberman or Sharpton to that list, although they would still be an improvement over *.

[Hep]

22. I admire your objectivity.

And I admire your position. I might end up in the same position. But until Dean drops out, I'm not even considering voting for anyone else.

[Cassandra]

33. It's a learned response

When Mark Green lost to Bloomberg, I was utterly crushed and depressed for days. Since then I have noticed that Bloomberg had to be tough with city unions (because the repukes never sent all the money we were promised),(without being antagonistic) in a way that Green would have found impossible. Bloomberg has been a big improvement over Guiliani as a day-to-day mayor. I do object to him giving his support to the repuke party as currently constituted, and his conversion of the expensively renovated Tweed courthouse into a Board of Ed space instead of The Museum of the City of New York, makes me want to spit, but much of the way he has been running the city has been something I can live with.
As for the current primary; I'll take anyone who shows me they are willing and able to fight hard against repuke lies. Someone who will show the country all the ways in which Bush is ruining the country and will never back down. Until the others show their willingness to do this, I support Dean, but I will not take my marbles and go home if Dean is not the party's nominee. This is much too important!

[FreeperSlayer]

16. We'd better all be on the same page this fall!

Four more years of BushCo? By God, the blood won't be on my hands!

[Hep]

23. Not yours

but it will be on the hands of a lot of people here.

[CWebster]

25. Say if you were part of the ABD movement

and you successfully destroyed Dean and had your own preference nominated and they were whipped 'til bleeding in the race and Bush wins again.

Will the blood be on your hands?

We will never know, should that day come, if the Democrats willing destroyed their best chances with their same old formula. Dean represents the change that our system of entrenched interests can not tolerate and he gets it from all quarters.

[Northwind]

28. Same page = Howard Dean

Anything else means 4 more years of Bush.

If you want everyone on the same page, you better start supporting Dean. He's the only chance you've got.

NBD '04

[Hep]

30. Perhaps not 4 more years of Bush

Certainly the beginning of the end of the D party.

[Forosuul]

44. If the Dems nominate one of the "status quo" candidates

It will deserve its fate. We need real change, not lip service. We need Dean, and only Dean.

[Hep]

51. True on the one hand

But even if Dean loses, and regardless of whether or not the D candidate wins, we have to fight to keep our party intact.

[Northwind]

66. Wrong

If Dean "loses", then we should fight to destroy the Democratic Party.

[displacedtexan]

27. Some of us really mean it.

Yeah, I have decided on a primary candidate, but I'm a Democrat first, and a candidate supporter second. I always vote for the candidate with the big D next to the name on the ballot. And I have voted in every single election since 1972.

I could change my avatar to Kerry, but that wouldn't describe exactly how I feel about the situation.

This is democraticunderground, not maybe-if-i-feel-like-it-underground.
To be a Democrat means that you join the party, support the candidates, and try to make life better for everyone... especially in your local community.

If you call yourself a Democrat, why do you even consider either voting for another party's candidate or not voting at all? (I don't mean you personally.)

[CWebster]

29. And what does

that big D next to the name mean when it just means there wasn't a slot available to put a big R?

What should Democrats do when the party has been so diminished in identity that it only challenges Bush 5% of the time?

When is it enough to demand greater accountability? Dean responded to the anger of the Democrats who appealed to him. Obviously something happened in Iowa, and we can all speculate why, where the voters went to Kerry. Does that mean that everything the voters complained to Dean about no longer are an issue? If that is the case what is the point of ever expecting better?

[Hep]

31. Valid thought to be sure

It'll be less painful to vote for one of the others when all I do is vote straight ticket. I don't actually have to lower myself to putting hte mark next to someone I don't want to vote for.

But it's important to note, and I'm not saying that you don't get this, that joining the party HAS to be more than registering. We need ACTIVE members.

If everyone who voted Nader in 2000 became a precinct chair, the D party would look very different in 2004, moreso in 2008. But people will always expend energy bitching, very few are willing to expend energy changing things.

Sorry to ramble.

[boxster]

45. There are plenty of ABB people on DU.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=163691

Supporters of Clark, Edwards, and Kerry will overwhelmingly vote for Dean in November. In fact, I suspect that many of the No votes are either unhappy Dean supporters or lurkers attempting to skew the poll.

Can't say the same for Dean supporters supporting anyone else, though. Several in this very thread have stated otherwise. How can Dean promote the party if his supporters won't vote for any Democrat but him?

[Hep]

54. gawd

Yeah a DU poll is really scientific. But funny how you assume the best of the K, C, and E supporters and the worst of D supporters. Lets me know your perspective in all of this.

Dean will support whoever gets the nomination. It is ultimately up to the individual. And I don't begrudge anyone their choice.

[boxster]

59. God, you really are completely incapable of ever admitting you are wrong

aren't you?

I had some doubts, but you've proven otherwise.

Your first post: "I don't see very many ABB people at DU anymore."

The poll is "people at DU". The entire premise of your post is about people at DU, yet you then discount a poll at DU which proves that you don't have a clue what you are talking about, or more likely, that you are being intentionally obtuse and misleading.

Geez. If you can't acknowledge that you're wrong in something as insignificant as this, don't waste my time.

[Hep]

62. I'll admit I'm wrong when I'm wrong. Worry not.

I don't see many ABB at DU anymore. I see people claiming to be ABB, but frankly, I have my doubts. Why you have such a problem with this is way beyond me.

Yes, I made a statement about DU based on months and months of posts. I mean, THOUSANDS of posts, and you refutr it with a poll. Not any kind of scientific poll. Just a DU poll. And you wonder why I think that's bunk.

You're wasting your own time. I'm not asking you to reply.

[library_max]

68. You'll know when Hep is wrong.

You'll hear seven trumpets, the seas will turn to blood, etc. etc.
:evilgrin:

[Hep]

70. The sun will be as sackcloth and the moon shall be as blood

Amen to that!

[union_maid]

69. If you're ABB, you're ABB

That doesn't mean you're equally crazy about all the candidates. Dean was once my first choice, but not for long. Now he's probably my fourth choice. Maybe fifth. If he's the candidate, I plan to fall in love with him the day he gets the nomination, however.

[peaceandjustice]

71. ABB IS Nonsense

I won't vote for Bush, but I may not vote for a Democrat over a no-chance Green or Independent candidate just because I want to see Bush out of office, if the Democrats can't offer someone who is significantly better. If I have to I'll completely throw my vote away and write in a candidate.

I can't imagine ever voting for Joe Lieberman. A Joe Lieberman presidency is four years of Bush-Lite policies followed by a choice between a moderate-conservative incumbent and a moderate-conservative to hard-line conservative Republican. A Lieberman nomination postpones the opportunity to take America in the right direction by four years and a Lieberman Presidency by eight.

Al Sharpton...well, he won't get the nomination. But if he did, hell, I might have to reconsider Bush. Sharpton is an anti-Semite. Period.

As for the rest, I wish the name-calling would stop because there are things I like and dislike about all of them. Any one could get my vote in November, if they don't "tack to the middle" i.e. embrace the failed policies of the last 24 years.

[GreenPartyVoter]

72. I'm ABB

I'll vote for whatever Dem gets the nod, not because he is a dem but because he is not Bu$h and, under our current election system, most likely to beat Bu$h.

The only way I will be thrilled to vote for a dem for Prez is if Kucinich takes the nod. Otherwise this is just another strategic vote... pick the guy I dislike least. :eyes:

[boobooday]

73. A song for the ABB people!

No matter who you support, this song is for you!

www.wgoeshome.com

ANYBODY BUT BUSH!


Boobooday

[LosAngelesDemocrat]

74. ABD is a threat to the long term viability of the democratic party

What ever happened to the big tent party? The party of inclusiveness? The party of multilateral ism both foreign and domestic? There has been a fraction in the democratic party that is being taken advantaged upon and misrepresented in the media that needs to stop. Though I consider myself a moderate democrat, somewhat along the lines of the DLC, I see the greatest threats to the democratic party being both in the ability to attract independents AND the far left. Of course the R's have a easier time because their strategies for party cohesion are different (blackmail/ostracizing/pork)where ours are much more difficult (compromise/consensus/coalition forming). But that's what's makes being a real democrat so special. In order to win this election and pursue democratic ideals there needs to be equal focus on both independent/swing voters and far left liberals/green party ppl who support Dean. The threat emerging on the left coast is that disenfranchized democrats are going green. It was close in Oregon 2000 and there are emerging threats in Washington and California (SF mayoral election). The strategies on the swing states are already well documented and pretty everyone knows about the importance. It's one thing to advocate for your own candidate, but why create sore losers? Especially when you expect them to become your supporters when the primary is over? Aren't you sabotaging yourself?

[LosAngelesDemocrat]

75. dean v kerry... symbolmatic of far left v. democratic establishment?

The opportunity missed I am referring to is the consolidation of the left of the traditional democratic establishment and the newcomers to the party that Dean is so effective in bringing in. Dean supporters tend to be young, green, and very liberal as the new generation's version of hippies.With this election being so close, the consolidation of the democratic primary to a candidate to run against Bush is so much harder with a dirty campaign fought amongst democrats. If Kerry wins the democratic ticket (which it appears so) instead of concentrating moderate swing voters, he would have to heal some wounds on the far left. "You can win the battle but lose the war," is what I see happening. The battle being the democratic primary or the 2004 election, but the war being the viability of the democratic party and liberalism.

Democrat Meetup Volunteer

[polpilot]

76. Go to the DLC website and see if 'somewhat along the lines of the DLC'

is now an accurate statement of your position. Dean needs to go third part as he's not WANTED or RESPECTED by the pro-war, pro-corp DLC as their comments make abundantly clear. I suggest The Decent Party as the new demo alternative and let From package and sell the establishment candidates that THEY have selected.

Dean '04...The Decent Party

[Courtney_P]

77. I don't like any of our candidates to be honest.

Except for maybe Lieberman and Edwards, but they are fading fast. Dean is a nutjob, Kerry will be a rerun of Dukakis, Clark has too many skeletons in his closet that will come out in a general election and the others aren't even worth mentioning. I will rally around the winner of the primary season, but I don't like our chances this fall. GW seems to be made of teflon and did you see his California approval rating? 52% in CALIFORNIA I am so depressed.

[LosAngelesDemocrat]

79. Dean and DLC lover too!!

That's the funny thing about my support for Dean... while I support all the candidates for different reasons, the unique thing that I've been advocating to all of the other candidate's supporters is this idea of a "big-tent" party... They may not like him for who he is, but you have to like him for what he s doing for the democratic party. There's a reason why he had all the endorsements from Gore and other ppl in the democratic party. Though I don't want to go in depth in a public forum, I will say that Dean's base is a reinvigorated traditional part of the democratic party that in the past 20 years that has felt marginalized. And the tragedy with all this ABD and ABK stuff is that we are forgetting ABB... not to mention that an opportunity to reunite different wings of the democratic party... far more important to me is the long term viability of progressivism.

Democrat Meetup Volunteer LA

[surfermaw]

78. Support the rising cream of the crop , or loose in 2004