LSD questions

[willing dwarf]

Hi all, I'm hoping to get "crowd source" opinions on LSD. It's not for me, but for my god child who is just finished high school and sure that the world is his oyster. He has renounced all the usual feel good uppers, but want to open his mind through the power of acid. I am strongly against this on grounds that it's not a safe substance and the chance of doing your brain chemistry real harm are not worth it. Also I don't see the point of pursuing the butterfly of spiritual experience if the experience is utterly illusory and can't be shared with others in the current space/time continuum. I am also really worried that this kid, who is the oldest of his cousins, and has the charisma of a group leader is going to be pulling others, especially my two high schoolers, into his trips. -- which doesn't even get us to questions of messing with something illegal in this "lock 'em up and throw away the key" society.

My own past drug history is nil. I have stayed away from all drugs, even pot, sensing on a psychic level that there is a great deal of darkness and negativity around the whole drug scene. The result is that I can't speak with an authoritative voice on this issue. So I turn to my hippy and not so hippy friends at DU for insight.

Thanks.

[hippywife]

1. I only did acid a few times back in the day.

It wasn't very strong acid, either. There was no harm done. I would tell him to make sure that if he insists on doing this that he has someone reliable with him that isn't dropping who can look after him until he comes out of it.

But I also would try to dissuade him, too.

[KG]

2. tripped many times.

the 'brain chemistry' thing is BS. right up there with birth defects which was another line of BS about acid.

[willing dwarf]

9. Information seem so polarized

slanted either one way or the other with little in between. The range of responses here is interesting, though not necessarily helpful ultimately. Makes me see that he'll need to find his own way.

[Curmudgeoness]

13. In the end, you know he has to find his own way no matter what you do. nt

[slay]

57. Same here

most negative stuff about LSD is pure propaganda. best i ever had was some pure liquid at a grateful dead show. :hippie:

[Capn Sunshine]

65. Still waiting for a flashback

I feel like I should get my money's worth.

[RobinA]

73. Tell Me About It

They promised me a flashback, damn it. I've been waiting since 1978.

[TZ]

114. Remind me where you got your medical degree again?

Sorry but you don't know what you are talking about. I'm a professional biologist and its one of the things you learn. LSD can do SERIOUS PERMANENT brain damage to some. Not all but no way to predict it.
HERE learn some FACTS. Oooh science.
http://soberplace.com/effects-of-lsd-on-the-brain/

[unpossibles]

116. I'd love it if that article actually backed up its thesis with

links to the actual studies involved. You know, like science articles usually tend to do.

[SCantiGOP]

118. and

it notes that the author declined to say who he/she was. The site is propaganda, not science. When I went to college in the early 70s everybody did it, never knew anybody to have a problem afterward. My take is that it causes temporary chemical-induced schizophrenia. A 'bad trip' is when someone takes so much they come to either forget what they are experiencing was the result of a chemical they ingested, or they convince themselves they took so much they are never coming back. Now, that being said, if one is border line schizoid to start with, acid could push them over the line.

[Kali]

120. my experience was that crazy fucks on acid

acted like crazy fucks, the spiritual people saw god, and the rest of us just got fucked up and had a good time

[SCantiGOP]

121. Amen to that Kali

I never saw god, but I once saw a color that no one had ever seen before. Ever. It wasn't until I was coming down that I realized it was light purple, and I had not actually discovered it.

[unpossibles]

122. same with any drug, imo

I don't think drugs change who you are in that way, and I include alcohol. I've been fucked up to the point of literally being surprised that I had legs (a long story) but I have never turned violent, or anything else outside of my normal character.

[Kali]

119. that link goes to an article

on a sobriety website and is not very scientific at all (biased to the possible negative effects, no stats, no citations)

can't you do better?

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[willing dwarf]

14. Spare me your snark

I asked a sincere question out of concern for someone I care about deeply. I have no idea what your problem is, but your response was completely useless.

[UTUSN]

17. Useless is as Useless does. n/t

[Rabrrrrrr]

49. Not only completely useless, completely unintelligible.

:shrug:

I don't know what the points of any of those statements actually are.

[Locrian]

89. whaaaaa?

>>

:shrug:

"I don't know what the points of any of those statements actually are."


I guess I'm trippin - cause I have no idea wtf he/she said there either....

[UTUSN]

96. Yet, thanks SO much!1 n/t

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[UTUSN]

27. Nothing like substantive replies, eh?!1 n/t

[S n o w b a l l]

35. You are way out of line here...

Weirdo? Why are you being such an asshole to someone with a sincere question? You're being very judgmental.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

4. I don't recommend it.

I tried it. Once. It scared the living crap out of me; I was totally disoriented and hallucinating in a very frightening way for almost two days. I never went near the stuff after that.

:scared:

There were a lot of bad trips back in those days. Not all were bad, but some were, and some were very, very bad.

[willing dwarf]

11. Thanks very much for your forthright response.

I hope he can be as open to his feelings and experience, and not be too caught up in some idea he has about what he's seeking.

[JonLP24]

91. It depends on the mood you are in before you take it

If you're in a depressed or angry mood it is best not to take it even if they are minor feelings of sadness or what not. Be sure you're happy and you have little to no problems bothering you when you take it.

[Curmudgeoness]

5. I cannot speak with authority about today's acid, and I hear it is purer

than what we used, therefore, less bad trips. But this I don't know. I used acid several times and enjoyed it, except for the "edge" you got from the stricnine in it at that time. I do not believe that it had any adverse effect on me, or even on people who had bad trips, in the long term. But I did see some people who just did not handle it well, and that was frightening.

You should discourage him from doing it. If he decides to do it, you should discourage him from sharing this with his cousins. And if he chooses to try it, just have him promise that he will have someone sober and straight with him at all times---someone trusted who has some experience, just in case he is one who has problems.

And if he does do this, understand that experimenting at his age is normal.

[willing dwarf]

15. Interesting observation

I agree with your observations in second paragraph. I'm thinking about asking him to hold off by a year or four years, till he gets a little more life experience.

[hobbit709]

16. there never was strichine in any of the samples tested by various labs

What the samples had in common was much larger than 250-300 microgram doses.

[Curmudgeoness]

21. Hmmm, well that was what I was told, way back when.

Kind of scary now that you tell me what it really was. Don't know why I think that is scarier than strychnine.

[hobbit709]

23. It was the common belief back then.

As far as large doses go, I probably on more than one occasion ingested a couple of milligrams worth.

[Minimus]

6. I recommend 'shrooms... they are natural!

[willing dwarf]

8. That's an interesting point

In college a lot of people seemed to feel like mushrooms were the real thing. I've never understood if the chemical compounds are the same what makes the difference between the cooked up stuff and the natural. But then, hearing what people say about some acid being not good suggests that the natural stuff is actually better. Thanks!

[EOTE]

102. I have never "tripped" on acid before, but I have on shrooms.

I tried acid a few times during college, each time with a group of friends. Each time was a bit of a let down. None of us experienced what I'd consider to be a true trip. I got some light tracers and a speedy sensation in my body, but nothing special. Mushrooms always appealed to me a lot more. I got more interesting visuals like breathing and pulsating trees and such. However, the only time when I experienced true hallucinations (as in seeing things which weren't actually there) was when I took what is known as a Shamanic dose of strong psylocibe cubensis (around 9 grams dried). I truly enjoyed myself on that trip, but haven't done a large amount of shrooms since.

I don't do it very often, but when looking to have a nice night with my SO, I'm typically looking for things I haven't tried. Recently, we picked up what we thought were Mollies (pure MDMA), but after taking them, we were quite sure what we were doing wasn't MDMA. The pills were gel caps filled with an extremely tiny amount of white powder (less than 10mg) and it was one of the most intense trips I've ever had. Extreme body high (more so than any MDMA I've ever had) and extremely hard to describe. We were watching TV and a man's face appeared on the screen and both of us started laughing insanely loud for several minutes. We just couldn't stop laughing, it was so bizarre. The visuals were minor, but interesting. The greatest thing about it was that after that intense, 8 hour experience, I went to sleep and woke up feeling pretty much fine. I did some research into what we took and I'm nearly positive it was 5-Meo-Dipt (Foxy Methoxy).

I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing to experiment with hallucinogens at a young age. When I experimented in college, it took a lot of the mystique out of the experience for me and I didn't have strong desires to do them again. Of course, everyone is different. I'd speak to your Godson and inform him of the dangers and then let him be.

[Curmudgeoness]

10. Natural doesn't mean good or safe. I could kill you with mushrooms

if they are the wrong mushrooms, but they will be totally natural. So is hemlock. The word natural can mislead.

[XemaSab]

31. Shrooms freaked me out

I think it's up to the individual.

[slay]

60. I preferred LSD to shrooms

but yes, to each his/her own.

[Capn Sunshine]

66. and Peyote

both make you physically ill first. So there's some good old fashioned Calvinistic pain prior to the pleasure. Certainly, LSD or psychedelics in general are not for everyone. For one thing, you need your wits about you, you need to be comfortable in your own skin au naturel. This means if you have any mental weaknesses, debilitations, tendencies ( ie paranoia or anxiety) stay away, psychoactives activate your psyche.

[RobinA]

74. My Experience as Well

I did it a couple times and found it interesting but too strong. I like pot or hash better myself, because I like to be able to lose my wits a bit without worrying I'm going to fall off a cliff. I definitely wouldn't recommend it for anybody who can't keep their head on their shoulders. Or, as my ex-shrink (RIP) would say, doesn't have a strong superego.

[snooper2]

110. I second this opinion...shrooms are the way to go...

Fuck acid, at least you can somewhat function on shrooms and it's mostly visual...

None of that shit that acid does to you. Like when we were standing in the driveway dropping rocks down this hole that appeared out of nowhere. Only to find a large pile of stones the next morning in the middle of the roadway :rofl:

[madrchsod]

7. no idea what it`s like today

i prefer psilocybin

[hobbit709]

12. If he's going to

tell him to be with someone he trusts who's done it before. Try to avoid any intense scenes until he knows what he can handle.
When I first did acid it was still legal, got to do some of the real Sandoz LSD-25( I knew some rather eclectic people) who helped me understand what was going on. Later on I could handle just about any situation even if some of them required some decompression time afterward. I don't know how many times I tripped but it was at least a couple of hundred and probably more than double that.

[willing dwarf]

19. How did your experience effect your regular life?

Did all of that tripping get in the way? Do you feel like you benefited from the experience?

[hobbit709]

22. it got me through 37 weeks of USAF tech school in 8 weeks

with a 97 average. I could see the electrons running around on the circuit diagrams. My attitudes about authority and the daily corporate grind were pretty much ingrained before I started so who knows. It taught me to know and accept who and what I am.

[willing dwarf]

26. So it sounds like it worked out, and you're none the worse for wear

Thanks for your insight.

[era veteran]

43. Never missed a shot.

Shot tank main gun in Graffenwohr Germany on Sandoz

at night. Most fun thing ever. Would not recommend to weak minded people though.

[RobinA]

75. Helped Me

understand mental illness, which is now my career. Without getting too Doors to Perception, it made me understand how subjective perception is. One little tweak to brain chemistry and the world around you, while looking the same, takes on a whole different meaning. Or lack of meaning. We take "sanity" for granted, but we're only a few molecules away from a completely different way of interpreting our world.

[AmericaIsGreat]

18. I did it about four times at the end of my high school career

Strictly to try it and get the curiosity out of the way. I have never done it since.

Each time we had a group of about 7-8 people at my house who were all partaking. We had all the activities planned out before-hand and these little "tripping parties" were a hoot. Not I nor anyone else ever lost control or had a bad trip because we always had a great atmosphere and everyone was on it. We were all yuppy, preppy suburban DC kids but we had a hankerin' for some of those traditionally "hippy" drugs and, as I said, it was fun. I have no reason to believe the use affected me long-term.

I'm actually in a somewhat similar situation as you; my little brother wants to try LSD. He is a bright, incoming senior at a good school. He is fully confident about his ability to handle the drug and not end up tripping every week. Although I'm not as confident in him, I must admit he has never done anything to suggest otherwise. Still, I continue to strongly recommend to him to just forget about it.

However, like your god child he will probably do it and so, after my pleas to abstain, I always give him some "if you're going to do it" advice and that is: be with other people who are doing it, preferably stay in a house, do not drive anywhere, figure out what you're going to do on it beforehand, do NOT take more than one hit even if you're "not feeling it", and call me if you start freaking out.

It sounds like your god child is as set on it as my brother and, as such, I would follow my lead: firmly recommend for him to forget about it but give him some "if you're going to do it" advice. I mentioned some of mine and more can be found on the internet.

It seems to me if you cannot stop someone from doing something, the most responsible thing to do is to give them advice to do it as carefully as possible.

[willing dwarf]

20. Thanks, this makes a lot of sense.

One question though,how did you decide you had enough? Is acid adictive? I've never known anyone who seemed to get hooked on it. Am I right?

[stevedeshazer]

24. It helped me tremendously.

Not at 18, but around 23 or so.

I'm 55 now, haven't taken it since but I'm glad I did.

Since you've never experienced it, I appreciate that you asked others who have rather than blanket condemnation.

It's not for everyone but if your godchild is mature, just make sure he's in a safe place when he does it and he should be fine.

[willing dwarf]

28. One question

How did it help you? I think sometimes he worries he's not experiencing life fully enough (I worry he's got a low-grade depression) but he feels like it might lift him up. Is that how it was for you?

[stevedeshazer]

50. Yes. It was a euphoric experience.

It changed the way I think of the world. It made me see that I was part of one very large and amazing universe. Before, I tended to see things in a solitary sort of way, like the only thing that mattered was me.

It's really quite hard to describe.

[willing dwarf]

51. That's very interesting

I have had a few times when I've experienced that sort of deep ecstatic connectedness-- something that seemed to come from beyond my own expectations and experience and made me feel deeply connected to everything and everyone else, but it's never been with the help of a substance.

I am glad to hear that it's had a lasting positive impact for you, just as my moments of spiritual ecstasy have affected me. Perhaps it's not as much how we get to that place as how we respond to it that matters. This gives me a good sense of how I might talk with my nephew not as much about trying acid as about both what he is seeking, and how he may respond to the understanding he might gain.

Personally I feel like recognizing that one has the longing to feel more connected to all of being is the first step toward becoming so connected, and that that is a step in the journey of a lifetime.

[RobinA]

77. I Didn't Experience Euphoria

but I was born low grade depressed and didn't find that it did anything bad to my mood. Really didn't affect my mood at all. I think if he feels he isn't experiencing life fully he would probably get more out of going out and finding new things to experience. LSD may be one of them, but in and of itself I don't think it's the key to anything, it's just another experience to add to ones life.

[Schema Thing]

29. I did it my first and only time a couple years ago, at 44

I think it was beneficial. It certainly was fun, and way cheaper than a trip to disneyland or to see the Dalai Lama.


I actually think I *should* do it a few more times. In todays fast paced world though, it's hard to take a day off for yourself to get high, even if it's the responsible thing to do ;).

[XemaSab]

30. I think acid and tattoos should not be done

by anyone under, say, 24 years old.

That being said, I thought acid was a very interesting experience. I don't know if I would have the same affinity for saturated colors that I have today had I not done acid.

[Kali]

32. affinity for saturated colors

:o :rofl:

[XemaSab]

34. I painted my room Sherwin Williams' Blue Chip

I think the dude who got thrown off of Design Star last week got thrown off for painting a bathroom that color.

One could also make the argument that I was turned Mexican. I am strongly considering a lime green trim for my room. :o

[Kali]

36. lime green WITH the blue?

I tend to go either boring white or obnoxiously blue with wall color myself. Not sure it it is drug related. Maybe.O8)

[XemaSab]

37. I think it would go well with the art.

Witness my FB page for details on THAT.

[Kali]

39. yeah, I guess

I saw your work before, haven't been to FB in a while - too fast/busy for me (speaking of psychedelic experiences:rofl: )

[willing dwarf]

52. LOL

so true about tattoos!

[Sebastian Doyle]

33. Probably the most important things when doing any sort of psychedelics

Be able to trust your "source". You don't want to get the proverbial "brown acid" or rat poison or whatever. Or the wrong kind of shrooms, if you go that route.

Only trip with people you know & trust, especially if it's your first time. Psychedelics tend to amplify whatever's on your mind at the time, so it's a good idea to go into it with a good frame of mind, and be with people who will keep you that way.

I'm hardly an expert on the subject. Did acid twice, shrooms once, and neither since Poppy Bush was in the White House. If I had to do either again, it would probably be the shrooms.

[annabanana]

123. Maybe the second most important thing is

Make sure you are properly "packed" for the trip. Make your surroundings as familiar & pleasant as possible. Be with people you trust and care for, who trust and care for you.. It can be a wonderful thing if you prepare properly.

[Kali]

38. what other drugs has he tried?

I wouldn't recommend acid as a first "experience."

But I have always thought everybody ought to try it. I also think everyone should travel internationally too so maybe I am being too generous in my opinion of what people can handle.

[willing dwarf]

53. The general high school stuff

Pot, hash, beer, wine-- I don't think he's done anything else, but he hasn't said he has or hasn't.

[Kali]

56. when I was in high school acid was in the "general high school stuff"

my kids didn't seem to have it around - booze, pot, x and meth seem to be the drugs while they were in school - maybe some mushrooms around too

[slay]

62. Ha me too!

LSD was more common than weed back when I was in high school. They don't call it HIGH school for nothin! :evilgrin:

[SwampG8r]

40. from 1974 til 1976 i did it daily

good stuff too
didnt make me too wierd

[willing dwarf]

54. So why did you stop?

Seems like everyone on here talks about it in their past but not present. perhaps the struggle to earn a living is too demanding to add in recreational drug use?

I am surprised that almost all of the people responding have experience and are generally in favor of some version of acid. Perhaps the subject heading only drew people with experience?

[RobinA]

78. I Think People Stop

because LSD and productive adult life aren't really compatible. It's one of those things that should be done before one gets down to the business of fulltime adulthood. I'm sure there are people out there who earn a living a trip on weekends, but generally I don't think it would work to well, for me anyway. It's not like having a drink or a joint Saturday night to have fun or relax. A trip is sort of a committment to be lost in space for a certain amount of time.

[SwampG8r]

98. yes very true

and its exhausting
its a young persons drug

[SwampG8r]

97. i would have to say several factors

one availability dropped in this area and price increased
also became double employed for first time so less leisure time
and then
my brother gave me a blotter and i ate it before he told me it was a 4 way
that was a very difficult night and afterwards i was skittish

[bluedigger]

41. Been a long time...

I tripped a few times back in college. Having a good tour guide is highly recommended - somebody who has some experience will help on the first trip. Everybody's experience is going to be different. Personally, I was disappointed at not finding the meaning of life, or seeing colors melt. I had a serious speed high and could drink like a fish. Minor hallucinations/reality disconnects, but other than the hand reaching through the closed window, the St. Bernard dog saving me from falling into the Stillwater River, and the confrontation with the angry frat rats, it was all good. Don't worry about it. It's a rite of passage which almost everyone survives. Life is risk. Tell him to be careful.

[marzipanni]

42. Some LSD discussions from the past...

(cartoon thanks to unpossibles)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=8606948
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=8075811

[xchrom]

44. there is a romance to it that probably isn't deserved but

i've done it quite a bit and it didn't seem to hurt me.
and i did have fun.

that being said -- not everything is for everybody.

[Maine-ah]

45. my last trip was in the 90's

always had a great time....and we were just out of high school.

If he does it, he should do it with a group, and with people he really likes. Along with someone who can stay sober and keep an eye on shit.

[The Midway Rebel]

46. Too young.

He is too young to waste good LSD on. Pack that shit up in a letter and mail it to me.

Seriously thouugh, set and settin mean a lot.

[slay]

59. +1 (but not to the "too young" part)

Set and setting do indeed mean a lot. Back when I used to do it a lot I mostly did it at night, with a couple friends, in a calm setting with some good music. The only time I liked doing it around a lot of people was at Grateful Dead shows and that was quite intense. Good times. :hippie:

[old mark]

47. I have done acid many times in the past, as well as other supposed

"psychedelics", and have little use for any of them at all. I gained no real "insight" or any such thing, mainly used them for entertainment purposes...I believe the "spiritual" aspects of these drugs is nonsense.

FWIW, I don't believe I had any damage from these drugs, nor from the many years of pot and canabis use...I suffered more problems from alcohol than from anything else. After decades of using these drugs, I returned to college, got deans list and scored in the highest .1 of 1% of all test takers in the USA on creatve writing exams...

I have not used ANY drugs including alcohol and tobacco for over 20 years, rarely even drink sodas now, but don't regret any of it - I just don't attach much importance to it, either...it was just one more case of the hype greatly exceeding the reality.

ADDED: I have seen many, many more people damaged by alcohol use than by any amount of these drugs...I'd rather see a young relative do them than drink excessively, but really, it is HIS business and his choice-don't add to his anxiety.

mark

[Iggo]

48. Acid.

It makes you insane for a little while. Mostly it's fun. Sometimes it's not. You can never tell who can handle it and who can't until the ride's already underway. And you cannot get off the ride.

Without knowing exactly what the plan is (and "the plan", often as not, goes out the window very early in the game) it's hard to give you odds, but I'd guess he'll probably survive and he has a better than even chance of staying out of jail. But that's true of any day you let yer kid leave the house, so I guess that's not very helpful...lol.

FWIW, I'd tell him what I tell my own siblings' spawn: "I don't recommend it." Because I don't.

[RobinA]

79. Emphasis

should be placed on "you can't get off the ride." Although I do think that mostly you can tell who is going to handle it and who's going to freak. Everybody I knew who went off while on acid (not many) you could have predicted that it would happen. Which is not to say everybody who keeps their head has a great time of it. You can have a bad time and not lose your mind, you just have to have the wits to ride it out.

[Lance_Boyle]

107. You *can* get off the ride

but you have to be prepared before you start the ride.

Rohypnol (yes, "rufies") will let you sleep through it.

[Iggo]

113. Interesting. I did not know that.

We didn't have that back in the day.

[willing dwarf]

55. Thanks all for your insight

It's so good to get some perspective from others on this stuff. I really appreciate everyone's comments. I'll keep reading with interest if there's more.

[slay]

58. Erowid.org has excellent information and user experiences with which to do some research

as with all drug use, it should be highly researched by the potential user to weigh any possible dangers, the best way to do it, see what others have experienced and learned, etc. Erowid has FAQ's, Facts, Purity discussions and more.

Direct link to their LSD page: http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd.shtml

On a personal note, I have taken LSD well over 100 times and have suffered no physical or mental damage that I am aware of. I did have some "bad trips" that were just not fun, but even so if I had the choice, I would not change a thing. But to each his/her own - just make a well informed and thought out decision. It's not for everyone.

[Inchworm]

61. I'd suggest he wait until after a year or so of college

Education itself can "open his mind." A few good arguments in various classes could add to his journey :)

:hi:

[TheManInTheMac]

63. Research lucid dreaming and tell him about it instead.

I've never done anything harder than pot, but a lot of my college buddies would drop acid. I'm sure at the time they thought their minds were being expanded, but from watching them when I was sober, I would say their minds were contracted.

[struggle4progress]

64. Been there. Done that. Lots. But it was a time where none of us believed anything

anybody told us

(1) Illegal. Possession can get you a permanent record. If you're unlucky, you end up with a DA who wants to use you to get some other people, and that can be a very unpleasant situation
(2) No quality control. Frankly, you have no real idea what you're actually taking, and there's no guarantee that it's not poison
(3) Black market. You're dealing with organized crime. Who knows how many idiots were shot to bring you your dope?
(4) Judgment. Some of us were damn lucky. We were young and thought we were immortal and showed surprisingly little common sense under the influence of psychedelics. I can remember very well several situations where nothing went wrong, but I might well have been dead if something had gone wrong. This is an individual matter, but there really have been some people who (tripping) thought they could fly from upper story windows -- or who did other stupid things, like deciding to trim off their excess body fat with knives
(5) Psychiatry. If you have unresolved psychological conflicts, messing with your brain chemistry can certainly bring them all out: existential anxiety attacks, for example, don't seem to be a terribly uncommon event on acid

Bottom line. Really opening your mind requires continuing disciplined work. There's no such thing instant enlightenment: it's another myth of our consumer culture

[slay]

67. But you don't want to let fear control you either

If someone is well informed about all aspects of a drug, it is clearly his or her choice whether or not to try it IMO.

I have never known of anybody who tripped on LSD and thought they could fly. That's a huge myth. Sure maybe 1 guy in a million - maybe.

The black market is not our fault - I'd love to be able to take legal LSD. Am I going to let the fact that it's illegal stop me? No.

I learned quite a bit from my LSD trips. Sorry you did not.

[struggle4progress]

70. I felt that way when I was 16. But now I think -- well, I try not to buy products

that can leave a trail of environmental ruin, so why would I buy a product that can leave a trail of human ruin? One kid I'd known since elementary school became a dealer in high school and ran with a pretty unsavory crowd: he was trading stolen handguns and pulling A.R.s by his senior year; he landed in prison relatively quickly, got out again, and managed to die before he was 21. It's true lots of us freaks considered ourselves nice people, but there was an Al Capone side of our extended circle

As kids, plenty of my friends and I sometimes showed really poor judgment about stuff, and drugs usually didn't help much. Some of my friends and I went out motorboating on a dark artificial lake at midnight, tripping our brains out: I was seeing all kinds of stuff that wasn't there. Fortunately, we didn't tear the bottom of the boat out on some snags or something like that. Sure, most people don't think they can fly out of windows, but failures of judgment aren't that uncommon, and (again) drugs usually don't help much

[slay]

81. No offense, but it sounds to me like yall were just stupid

who the fuck goes out in a boat, on a lake, while tripping. as many people have said in this thread - set and setting is very important. the people i hung with were smart, real smart - magnet school AP classes 90-99th percentile in intelligence for our ages. the guys in our school who messed with guns were the drunks, on alcohol, which was quite legal, even if not for their age. i don't think your version of "freak" is a good one, and i can see why you didn't like it. but no offense - most of us were a lot smarter - and more peaceful - about our drug use. i'm not promoting it, but i am definitely not condemning it.

also, i don't know which terrorist group you think you got your acid from, but i got mine from Grateful Dead hippies who i was more than glad to give my money to.

as Kali pointed out - many of your arguments sound like they are being made by someone brainwashed by D.A.R.E.

sorry your experiences were not positive, not all mine were either, and i don't recommend acid to anyone. but i don't tell them not to do it either. do good solid research, weigh the pros and cons, and make up your own mind is the best way to approach any drug use.

look around - environmental ruin is EVERYWHERE and LSD probably contributed to 0.0000000000000001% of it.

sorry but your arguments just don't stand up under scrutiny. :shrug:

*on edit - much of my LSD use was for spiritual reasons, not to just get "fucked up" if that helps explain my situation a bit better.

[struggle4progress]

85. A lot of my friends were in AP classes. I never finished high school, but that didn't keep me

from earning a PhD later. Intelligence wasn't at issue for us

My remark was drugs impair judgment -- and I think it's an entirely defensible assertion. None of us would have gone boating on a lake in the dark if we'd been straight when we got the idea, but we weren't straight: we were "look! the cabin walls are melting and bending back and forth!" tripping our brains out

That's not surprising if you think about the cognitive disorientations the drugs can produce. I once "rescued" a friend who lived in a mirror-symmetric omega-shaped building; his room was on an upper floor on the left side of the hall on the left side of the building; on acid, he was wandering on an upper floor, looking for his room on the right side of the hall on the right side of the building. See? He actually mirror-reversed left and right in his mind. I got him back to his room. He has a PhD now too. His intelligence wasn't the issue: the issue was cognitive impairment

My close friends were a peaceful gentle group. But we were also inquisitive and fairly gutsy, because our general experience was that we could get out of bad situations easily with flying-by-the-seat-of-our-pants intelligence. So we knew something about where our drugs were coming from. It wasn't all pristine. Maybe you're right: maybe everything you ever bought underground had an entirely peaceful history -- but based on my experience, I really rather doubt it

By the way, I did not claim that black market drugs caused environmental ruin; what I said was there is quite possibly a trail of human ruin behind an illegal drug purchase

When I used, from mid-adolescence to early adulthood, I sneered at the anti-drug propaganda too. I think cannabis should be legal. I don't think drugs did me lasting harm: maybe I was just lucky. I do think they wasted a lot of my time

[slay]

86. I hear ya

everyone's experience is different I suppose. The closest we ever came to doing something stupid was when me and my buddy stephen went to a park tripping at night and the lake looked convex and we theorized that for some fucking reason there would be a pocket of air at the bottom. LOL. but that's as far as it went - we never felt the urge to test that crazy theory.

some may say our tendency to take LSD and jump on freight trains was dangerous. heh. it definitely had to potential to be so, but we were professionals (lol) and apart from the time we jumped on a train with 6 engines that picked up speed way too fast forcing us to jump off and faceplant into the gravel along the side of the tracks, it was all good. :evilgrin:

some drugs impair judgment more than others - and i'll admit LSD does have that potential. which is why to the uninitiated or first time experimenter, setting and the company you're with make all the difference. when in doubt, bring along a sober trip-sitter. there are risks indeed, but for me at least, the rewards outweighed the risks.

i didn't mean to imply that yall were stupid stupid but that tripping on the lake certainly was.

i only bought at Grateful Dead shows or from their followers. went to over 20 shows between 1990 and 1995, got a vile of pure liquid at one from a long time friend that lasted 6 wonderful months for me and my friends back home. we also had a local NC State chemist who made ours when The Dead were not around. so i actually do feel quite confident that my money went to decent people in that regard.

i don't feel my time wasted, but i do wish i had been a bit more informed about LSD. then again there was no Erowid.org back then, and no real LSD info on the internet - not like there is today at any rate.

sorry if any of my posts have come across as too confrontational. i'm just a very big believer in informed personal choice and try to promote that in most aspects of my life, including drug use. i'm glad you posted the stuff you did - gives other perspectives for potential experimenters to think about.

peace bro.

[Kali]

68. your 5 points read like the cop that came to my 7th grade class

trying to give whatever they called the "just say no to drugs" propaganda back in the day

piqued interest more than dissuaded most of us

[struggle4progress]

71. I came of age in the Nixon era. Psychedelia was everywhere. The

propaganda then was clueless, of course: shorts like "LSD: Insight or Insanity" (for example) convinced plenty of us that we just had to try the stuff

But communicating with adolescents is always a challenge, isn't it? My friends and I didn't believe or trust many adults: we had them all pegged as effin clueless lyin establishment assholes. Well, a bunch of them were effin clueless, quite a few were lyin assholes, and the majority were hopelessly establishment -- but, one thing about growing up is you learn that jackasses and jerks can still have something worthwhile to say

I'd defend all my comments as being accurate and deserving serious consideration by anyone using drugs. Did I try the stuff? Hell, yeah, I tried it! Smoked pot like a chimney, opium and hash when I could get them, coke if I could afford it, acid and psilocybin if we wanted to kill twelve hours somehow. Did it really do me any good? Probably not: there were much better ways I could have spent my time

[kentauros]

69. There's an excellent interview with Ram Dass by Jay Kinney and Richard Smoley

on psychedelics, mostly LSD. It was originally published in the now-defunct Gnosis Magazine and worth a look:

Ram Dass
THE GNOSIS INTERVIEW
By Richard Smoley and Jay Kinney

I'm still trying to find any other articles from that particular issue as it had many fascinating topics to explore :)

[mreilly]

72. Here's what you need to know about LSD

I took it probably 20-30 times in my late teens and twenties; haven't tripped for 15 years and don't expect to again. I don't regret taking it - and in fact am glad I did - but don't feel there's anything more for me to gain from it (besides I'm pushing 40 with a job, wife, kids, house, etc.) As a godparent, you should strongly discourage him from taking it because it affects everyone differently, and he may react to it far worse than I did - it's a drug with a lot of terrifying potential.

LSD is not really a feel-good drug in the sense that alcohol, nicotine, marijuana or cocaine are. It is really more of an exploratory drug for delving into your consciousness. In that sense it's invaluable when you are developing into an adult and becoming aware that there's a larger world around you. It's been stereotyped as being used by people who see freaky colors, hallucinations, etc. but that's not entirely true. The first time I took it I genuinely thought I might see people who weren't there, or experience events like in a dream. LSD doesn't do that - it takes reality and skews it, making what was previously normal appear absurd or strange. Patterns on a rug took a life of their own, for instance, and music became an enveloping cloud. Interacting with people, for me, was extremely difficult - in fact, downright scary (at least insofar as interacting with others who weren't tripping). The very act of going to the convenience store to buy cigarettes was an insurmountable task. I actually wound up scrounging quarters once from my apartment to buy them from a vending machine in a bar because I simply couldn't handle talking to people - I was sure they'd know I was tripping, think I was nuts, and call the cops. Paranoia, obviously, was a big factor.

LSD seems to work best in a safe, controlled and predictable environment with others who have done it before - it's recommended that someone should be there who is totally clean and who can help anyone through any difficulties. I never had a bad trip, but I did get very uncomfortable with things that would normally not be an issue. I was usually tense, fidgety, and just plain wound up. Pupils dilated, breathing irregular, inability to talk properly - not a good social drug. I would often watch movies while on acid, and while the experience was intense, much of the movie was spent trying to figure out what the heck was happening. Clearly it interfered greatly with my cognitive abilities.

Worse, LSD would amplify for me any regular emotion I was feeling, turning a depressing thought into crushing despair. I took it once after a coworker I liked had resigned (I didn't drop acid because she quit; this was just a coincidence) and spent much of the trip mourning the fact I wouldn't see her again. I took it another time after an argument with my girlfriend, who then showed up during the trip and threw me for a loop. I didn't tell her I was on acid, and trying to patch up our disagreement was difficult to say the least. I had to stumble into the bathroom to wash my face and try to get through it.

I won't deny that I got a lot of insight while tripping into the nature of the universe, reality, and myself. I do think I see things in a different way and have done so since first taking LSD - probably my personality would be a bit different had I never taken it. However, I could have also really done some dumb stuff had I not been careful. I never thought I could fly (nor did I know anyone else who did) or anything stupid like that, but make no mistake - an acid trip is one big commitment of 8-10 hours, complete with ups and downs, and it's not a merry-go-round you can get off (unless you'd like to head to the emergency room, explain what is going on, and have them get involved - along with the police).

Give your godson a six-pack of beer instead and listen to some classic rock; that's what I plan to do with my godson when he's old enough!

[RobinA]

80. Good Synopsis

LSD never did the amplifying thing to me, though, pot does. Didn't used to back in the day, but I can't smoke anymore because it turns tiny anxieties into calamities of earth shattering porportions. I miss the old - smoke pot and sit down and laugh uproariously at Soap on TV days. Now it's - smoke pot and start worrying that I am going to get fired at work for maybe not turning my office fan off when I went home. Ain't adulthood fun?

[slay]

83. LOL. ""Confused? You won't be, after this week's episode of...Soap"

yeah anxiety can be annoying when high at times. set and setting are so important with all drug use. i still smoke from time to time but i need to be in the right place, and right frame of mind to do it.

is pot a "good" drug? does it help with some medical problems? is it for everyone? can you OD on it? "These questions—and many others—will be answered in the next episode... of Soap." :evilgrin:

(and no, you can't OD on it.. heheh)

[slay]

82. I would never recommend to give a kid a six-pack of beer as a substitute for LSD

i hate to encourage alcohol use and acceptance just because the government says it's legal. than again i would rate alcohol to be, in general, FAR worse than LSD as a whole. alcohol may be legal, but it is a dumb drug. there is no enlightenment to be gained from alcohol at all.

i'll say what i've said all along in this thread - a person should do their research, know the pros and cons, and make an informed decision.

if you want a non-propaganda based view of LSD check out Erowid.org's LSD page where they have FAQ's, user experience essays, and much more: http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd.shtml

having said that, i'll probably never do LSD again. i'm too old and stuck in my ways. but i don't regret it, and i think i would had i never tried it.

you make a good point that once you start tripping, you're tripping but a trip to the hospital would be not only a mistake, but a major bummer - best to just wait it out. however if one does end up going to the hospital for a bad trip - they legally can NOT call the police on you. doctor - patient privilege and what not. i've ended up in the hospital due to heroin before (don't judge me! lol..) and the cops were never informed - they aren't allowed to be. least not here in NC and as far as i know, nationwide.

lsd is powerful though, and not for everyone. these days i stick to a small amount of marijuana use when i want to experience an altered state. it's impossible to OD, and with baking it into brownies (no matter what stupid law Diane Feinstein tries to pass) there is no risk of lung damage. to each his/her own i suppose. :hippie:

[MilesColtrane]

104. +1

LSD is not a recreational drug.

[HEyHEY]

76. Take Mushrooms instead. Just know what you're getting.

At least they are natural, LSD is all chemical.

[GReedDiamond]

84. The early proponents of LSD...

...had this basic tenet for all (especially first time) adventurers to observe:

SET and SETTING.

SET being the basic mindset/expectations, which should be of a basic positive nature, and SETTING, which is the physical location of the person undergoing the LSD experience, for its entire duration, which should be in a safe, quiet, non-visually-aurally-or otherwise sensory-overstimulated environment.

Preferably, a neutral environment, under controlled conditions, and with an experienced observer present, and, NOT in a public place-shopping mall-party-concert-rave; or while a car-bus-truck driver (acid car driving, I did that only once); heavy machinery operator, factory worker; airplane pilot (astronauts excepted); jury duty pool member; theme park ride operator/patron; skydiver (although I know a guy who did take acid and skydive -- successfully).

In other words, a place where the LSD taker would pretty much feel comfortable and personally/physically/mentally secure in, under normal conditions, and under the passive scrutiny of an experienced observer.

Later, after having undergone these controlled-environment, personal experiments, perhaps one so experienced may consider going beyond those recommendations, but, in all instances, LSD is not to be taken lightly.

I do recommend hallucinogenics for intro/extro-spective, spontaneous, artistic outbursts, which may supercede previously stated basic protocols, due to LSD inspired/induced spasms of uncontrollable previously untapped creativity in the areas of "the arts."

Here are the front and back covers I painted for the underground comic book "Timothy Leary NEUROCOMICS" (by Pete Von Sholly, script by George DiCaprio, based on the writings of Dr. Timothy Leary, Last Gasp, 1979, and a two page spread from inside.





Edited for typo.

[velvet]

87. cool artwork

The borders get me, they really make it sing. Do you do any art or design these days?

Back to topic, I was one who heeded the advice regarding setting. The underground press in the late sixties/early seventies did a good job of spreading useful information like that. I heeded it so well I missed the bus. I loved pot but I never tried acid because I was waiting for the right setting to come along, that four-part harmony of the place, the people, the minder and the tabs. It never did. *sigh*

[GReedDiamond]

88. Hi velvet...

...thanks for the kind comments. I work nowadays as a garment industry graphics consultant, for graphics applications using silk screen and hand painting techniques. I also occasionally do costume graphic design and application for the entertainment industry, mostly movies (the last thing I had work in was "Hannah Montana: The Movie" -- other titles include "Enemy of the State," "To Wong Foo, Thanks for Everything, Julie Newmar," "Batman and Robin," and "The Phantom," to name a few.) I also sometimes show "fine art" around L.A. at places like Cannibal Flower and the Hive Gallery, but I'm more into collecting art than making it these days. I also engineer and produce music for my bands Benedict Arnold & The Traitors and Green Sparkle Frog.

I suppose it was wise of you to take the idea of LSD ingestion with the level of seriousness you did, as most seem to disregard the basic "rules" of set and setting, and sometimes come to regret their cavalier attitude toward this most powerful and unpredictable substance.

Just the other day, a friend of mine told me he found some purple microdot in his freezer, it may be up to 25 years old, and in the freezer the whole time. I wonder if it's still good?

[velvet]

101. "purple freeze"

Your friend might consider putting that microdot on EBay. "Vintage acid, cryogenically preserved. Take a trip back to the Eighties."

"I suppose it was wise" ... who knows? Road not taken and all that, it doesn't matter now, I was brave on other roads.

Thanks for the career update, that's some delightful diversity. All interesting and challenging work.

[Bucky]

90. I'm another vote for "don't, but if you do, do mushrooms instead". But get a "babysitter"

If he trips, he shouldn't trip alone. Just have a good, levelheaded friend along to supervise him stumbling around in the park and telling the pigeons he loves them.

LSD always left me wonky, plus most of it out today is totally cut with speed. Not good for the ticker. Safety and not getting busted are the top considerations here. Maybe volunteer to be the 'sitter, and then videotape him being a drugged up dumbass and have a good laugh at his expense later when he comes down. Shame is a far better teacher than sermons.

[TK421]

92. Make sure he has people he can trust that will stay with him

I've used it plenty of times, with my brother but mainly by myself. It's very hard to describe, but we usually watched movies when we tripped

I saw a dark orange haze around Bob Dole during a Larry King interview one night....weird shit, but fun

[deutsey]

93. I'm leery of LSD (sorry for the pun)

ever since I read Acid Dreams (a great history of the CIA's involvment wiith the drug...the book suggests intelligence types were involved with spreading it way after they allegedly stopped experimenting with it as a mind control drug in the '50s).

I also had friends in high school who (imo) fried their minds on the stuff. Not that there's any horror stories here of jumping out of buildings or staring at the sun until they were blind. After excessive use, they just became the kind of people I didn't really want to become and I saw LSD playing a big role in that (although I did know of someone in college who freaked out on LSD).

However, I would suggest salvia or shrooms or something natural, but only with the caveat that anyone who takes them doesn't do it recreationally. Use them as a sacrament, however you may define that and have a trusted and experienced person guide you and be present while under their influence (high does of salvia are particularly powerful). Aldous Huxley also recommended that people who use these kinds of drugs be of sound mind to begin with (see comment above about freaking out).

[Bluzmann57]

94. LSD cost me a damn fine woman

When I did acid, in the late 70's and early 80's, I thought I was invincible. Until one day at a local bar. This particular bar was a known drug hangout and the crowd I ran with were known druggies. Well, one day in the back room of said bar while we were shooting pool, some asshole (me) completely freaked out because I thought I saw my then girl friend making out with another guy. All she was doing was talking and I saw something which was not real. Paranoia? Probably. But the acid contributed to it.
Long story made short, I started throwing beer bottles at both my gf and the other guy. I was told by a number of other people that she was not doing anything but talking to the guy and that I was in the wrong. And it cost me the lady as she (understandably) dumped me.
I still see her around with her husband and we are still friends. And we have discussed the incident. There are no hard feelings. But I think her and I may have married eventually had I not been such an asshole whose judgement was clouded by acid. So tell your god child to stay away from acid and just get off on real life. Peace to you and yours.

[harmonicon]

95. can't really say: I never did acid

I would have, but by the time I had any interest in it, I couldn't find any... sort of funny, because it was just college in my early 20's, but it seemed around the time to be a kids' drug. My friends and I did coke and heroin and all sorts of drug store cowboy shit, but I never had acid. I guess maybe if you've got a god child who wants to trip and tells you about it, that kid's probably all sorts of fucked up anyway. Yeah... fuck if I know. Drugs are something to do when you're bored and either not old enough to drink or too poor to afford decent bourbon, as far as I'm concerned.

[The Midway Rebel]

99. WTF!?

"I guess maybe if you've got a god child who wants to trip and tells you about it, that kid's probably all sorts of fucked up anyway."

What a rude thing to say!

Yeah...you stick to your burbon.

I think we all see who is really "all sorts of fucked up anyway".

[slay]

100. Alcohol is THE WORST

has no redeeming qualities at all and most certainly does not have the mind-opening/expanding properties of LSD. Why would you suggest his god child is fucked up for having questions about psychedelic use? I mean.. WHAT?!?! Drinking is about the stupidest drug you can do - rots your liver, permanently kills brain cells, all kinds of horrible shit. If I were you I'd lay off it - it seems to have affected your cognitive functions negatively already. Wow.

[alfredo]

103. It's too unpredictable, dosage is not standardized, it could

be adulterated. If he has any trauma or emotional issues in his background, he could be in for a very bad trip. If he has any doubt about those who will be with him, it could be a bad trip.

A big problem is that the high lasts for 12 hours and the chance of something bad happening is too high. The loss of control can be quite frightening.

If he is determined to alter his mind, pot brownies are much safer. You may not be able to stop him, at least try to divert him to something safer.

Still the safest route for him is to stay away from LSD. To protect yourself, it is best you not encourage any illegal action.

[MilesColtrane]

105. Tell him to read Aldous Huxely and Carlos Castaneda instead.

When you haven't done acid before, whatever you think it's going to be like is totally different from what actually happens to you.

You think it will be like normal reality, only you get to see funny shapes and colors.

What it actually does is it takes the "you" out of you. Your constructed personality and the way your brain interprets the world melts away.

This can be terrifying or liberating, or both, but I don't think it's something that should be experienced by a kid.

[mike_c]

106. it's one of the safest recreational drugs he could use...

...and one of the most fun, IMO. I've used LSD literally hundreds of times, from my teens until about ten years ago (I'm 55). It's a good idea to be in a supportive atmosphere and among friends the first few times, not because there's much risk associates with doing otherwise, but because it's more comfortable that way.

[ceile]

108. Best time ever.

Took it several times in high school and a couple of times in college. I'd do it now if I could find some. No paranoia, lots of laughing and visuals, easy to come down.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

109. Acid trips are clearly not the best thing to do to your body, but very rarely deadly

that being said, if you have mental health problems like schizophrenia in your family, it could increase the onset of schizophrenia or bipolar disorder dramatically (i believe 7 times more likely, but this was a statistic i learnt close to decade ago. the number may be different now)

usually mental illness like schizophrenia occurs when there is a genetic predisposition + a stressor. acid is a strong stressor.

[Burma Jones]

111. It takes a healthy ego to enjoy LSD

It's not something to be used by an insecure person.

[Bennyboy]

112. As an intrepid tripper for about 40 yrs I can add some thoughts...

One, there is a ton of bunk acid out there. Seriously crazy stuff going on in the SF area right now. Seriously bad stuff, trips that last for days (as opposed to the usual 5 hours), violent behaviour etc. So if is from Humboldt or members of kids that call themselves Grateful Dead family (they are not really)don't do it. According to Errowid,and the Haight Ashbury Free Clinic people, it is "Not finished" or not 'connected' and is causing flip outs...

Errowid is great resource for psychedelics information....

Terrance McKenna is a great psychedelic pioneer. His books are must reads.

That said, there is a lot to be gained form psychedlics. Insight. introspection etc. Sometimes it is just a blast and half, but others you can gain a bit of something. something you can't put your finger on, but it changes you in a profound way. I love mushrooms myself. all natural and the trip is mellower and even more rooted....

They aren't for everyone though and I think it is bet that someone find their way there rather than being led there. eventually the kid will stuble on a show, someone will get him high and he will either hop on the bus or get off and never take the ride again. that is up to them though..

[unpossibles]

115. Acid is what helped allow me to get over serious depression and alcoholism

I don't give it all of the credit of course. I blamed myself for my mother's death and was drinking myself to death (and not very slowly) for years until I discovered pot and acid. While there was a little bit of overlap, those made me realize that not only what I was doing was foolish, but also to come to grips with myself, the universe, life/death, and to see that I was not responsible for her death. It's a drug that actually makes you think, although to someone outside of the trip, that is not always so obvious. In fact, that "making you think" thing can make people shy away from it quite a bit.

To answer your points:
1 - I am not sure it's that unsafe on its own, although one could argue otherwise, or that it can lead to people making bad (ie: unsafe) decisions. I've done it a lot (back in the day), and don't feel like I am less intelligent.

2 - you don't see the point in "pursuing the butterfly of spiritual experience if the experience is utterly illusory and can't be shared with others in the current space/time continuum." Funny, but ALL spiritual experiences are thus, even those of sanctioned religion, meditation, etc. I suggest you read a book called "Natural Mind" by Andrew Weil, MD
http://www.amazon.com/Natural-Mind-Investigation-Higher-Consciousness/dp/0395911567

It's one of the least biased (either way) books about drugs I have ever read.

And yes, there can be darkness around the drug scene, but there is also a lot of lightness and love, especially among the psychedelic scenes, which tend to make you notice the things which you ignore every day, as opposed to a legal substance like alcohol which makes you ignore and be numb to what is around you. I am not going to necessarily recommend it but I also say that there are valuable experiences to be had from it. And remember that EVERY experience is filtered by your senses and brain, thus something which is unique to yourself, drug induced or not. People remember the same event quite differently all of the time, sometimes drastically so.

[dr.strangelove]

117. Is it really acid

the problem with buying lab made drugs is that you never know what you are getting. If it were true lsd, I think I would give it a go, but I would be too scared of some idiot who did not know what they were doing, or worse yet, knowing what they were doing.