Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Who the hell made up the term "gifted and talented"?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » The DU Lounge Donate to DU
 
lightningandsnow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-09 10:46 PM
Original message
Who the hell made up the term "gifted and talented"?
I'm considered "gifted", but sure as hell am not talented. In fact, I'm rather bitter because I'm somewhat slow.

And, some of the most talented people I know wouldn't be considered "gifted" in the IQ sense.

That is all. :P
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
blueraven95 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-09 10:50 PM
Response to Original message
1. I think it depends on how you define the terms
"gifted" doesn't always mean a high IQ - in fact, I would argue that the IQ test is extremely limited in determining intelligence.

"talented" also has many definitions. I am more than willing to bet that you are extremely talented in many areas that you are ignoring but your school recognizes (I assume you are talking about school programs).


:hug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lightningandsnow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-09 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Well, I know I'm a good-ish writer.
Ah, well. Perhaps I haven't found my niche yet. Or something.

:hug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leftyclimber Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-09 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. All IQ tests are good for
is determining who is good at taking IQ tests. They really don't prove anything else, including whether a person is smart, talented, or valuable in whatever way.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Inchworm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-09 10:52 PM
Response to Original message
2. don't fall for it
hehe, I think I've said this before to you ;)

You are what you are. Fark the lables.

:hug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pokerfan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-09 10:56 PM
Response to Original message
4. I think that's the point
Gifted is "nature" and talent is "nurture." The terms can complement each other but I don't believe that they are necessarily intended to be synonyms.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
susanna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-09 10:58 PM
Response to Original message
5. Dunno, but I'd like to smack them.
Edited on Sat Feb-14-09 10:59 PM by susanna
I was given that label in grade/junior high school. Might as well have put a big 'ol target on my back. All the kids teased those of us in the G&T class and I've never really forgiven the powers that be. I was glad to get into high school where we didn't have the program and I got to be normal again. OK, well, I never really was normal but you know what I mean. :P

ETA: clarity
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leftyclimber Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-09 10:59 PM
Response to Original message
6. I think it's code for
"people who the system would like to force into the hard sciences."

I was in one of those programs as a kid back in the 1970s. By nature I am very artsy and literary. I never cared about the science stuff and to this day don't have the kind of brain it takes to "do" hard science. I was always getting bawled out for being out to lunch or otherwise not interested in doing cryptography for the government or for flailing in math even though I was reading at an extraordinarily high level for my age or similar such crap. And then I got shit from my peers for being in the program at all. Couldn't win for trying.

When I was 17 I took a class in college from one of the pioneers in the field and called him on his lousy reasoning and loaded questions. The teachers in the class thought it was screamingly funny; he gave me a B for what I am assuming was not falling down and worshipping him for being one of the inventors of the TAG concentration camps. I decided I didn't want to teach K-12 any more because of that turd-brain.

Load of horse hockey, that stuff. Punishment for being bright. Lordy, don't get me started or I'll keep going all night.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-09 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. It's also code for
the students who will be given a decent education, usually white and middle or upper class, so that the rest can be shuffled through the school system.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leftyclimber Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-09 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Dunno what it's like now,
but way BITD we learned such useful things as how to make pens out of pieces of bamboo in order to write heiroglyphics, how to make vinegar and baking soda volcanoes, how to draw pictures in BASIC on an Apple IIe, and how to spend hours making hand-drawn books about local tidepool inhabitants. Mind you, our program stopped after 6th grade, but I can't imagine we actually got anything useful out of these little meetings. It was a giant "we adults think you particular children are smart" wank-fest, and we kids knew it. Our biggest hobby was to get the TAG teachers fired by acting up in our "special" class whenever evaluators showed up.

We probably would have been better off in social studies and health with the rest of the kids. From a social standpoint, at bare minimum.

I have nothing but contempt for these programs. They alienate everyone in school by singling particular kids out for attention. None of the kids who were selected for the program were any more deserving than the kids that weren't. "Enrich" 'em all or don't enrich anyone.

Fuckers.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
susanna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-09 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #6
16. You might be right. I never thought of it that way.
I was like you (same time frame even). They kept pushing me into math and science even though I had no desire to play in that sandbox. When I took my college prep tests, I was contacted by the Navy for some freaking nuclear program, and by a couple colleges for electrical engineering. WTF? As a sidenote, I married an electrical engineer, which I figure is close enough for government work. :-)

I ended up in computers for a time (non-degreed because there were no degrees for the personal computer stuff back when I started) because they were fun, but now I'm cooking for a living. I like it much better. I had to take an algebra class to satisfy the general education requirements of my culinary program. I did very well and even tutored a few of the younger folks who were struggling.

I have always noticed that I have a weakness for proper logic and it sounds like you do, too. Very interesting post, leftyclimber. Food for thought. Thanks for sharing your story!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
abq e streeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-09 11:04 PM
Response to Original message
8. Besides being a musician, I work as a substitute teacher, and work with "gifted" classes a lot
Edited on Sat Feb-14-09 11:09 PM by abq e streeter
( I get requested as a sub by quite a few teachers of the "gifted")... I've had more than one discussion with them ( the teachers) about how much I dislike that term ( usually they agree with me too--most of my teacher friends are pretty hip and cool)...By calling these kids "gifted" , it implies, to me, that they're saying the other kids are not. And all the kids have a gift of some kind or another; the elitism of the term just bugs me. And by the way, Lightning and...I've read many posts of yours and you write very well and very intelligently.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Danger Mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-09 11:06 PM
Response to Original message
9. Some asshole probably.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Left Is Write Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-09 11:06 PM
Response to Original message
10. I don't know. I definitely do not qualify as gifted and talented.
Probably not gifted OR talented! :D
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sohndrsmith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-09 11:07 PM
Response to Original message
11. Someone who didn't realize what a burden it is : )
Edited on Sat Feb-14-09 11:45 PM by sohndrsmith
I qualify as "gifted" or "talented" in a particular area, and it can be a heck of a pain. Sometimes I daydream about how lovely it would be to be without it... or be equipped with a more practical one. : )

Unfortunately for me, it's something I can't ignore, and as talented as I may be, the processes I go through can be so painful and frustrating. It is very much not true that just because someone is gifted in some area that automatically means it is then "easy" for them. It can be, but speaking only from my own experience - it generally isn't. When it is, I'm more surprised than anyone. : )

In fact, I'm generally surprised when I later see what I've produced, and am sort of perplexed, "Did I really do that? I can't do that!" It's sort of comical.

On a more serious note, I think there is much discussion to be had concerning children and how they are "categorized" depending on certain abilities, often (I'm assuming) in regards to only the most obvious ones. I think there are talents and gifts within every child, but if they don't exhibit special skills in one of the few proscribed (prescribed?) areas - academic, creative, athletic, etc., they may misjudge themselves and never realize - or receive encouragement - for the gifts that are unique to them.

Then again, I think encouraging natural or extraordinary traits (talents) is a healthy thing unless it ends up being all-consuming and the child is identified only through this one part of him/her. That can create enormous pressure and distress (particularly if the child decides he's not really interested in whatever he's talented in.

I showed extraordinary ability at a very early age, so much so that it did end up defining me to a large extent. Over time, however, the expectation that I would excel and succeed with this gift into adulthood - was a pretty intense burden. Yes, I certainly had a choice, but it is such a huge part of me that I wanted to be able to succeed with it. Thing is, there are many, many things outside of one's "innate talent" that are required if the goal is to utilize this talent in a meaningful way. The punchline: I'm very much UN-talented in those things regarding my skills.

But I'm not done yet...

So there you go. : )

Having a certain "gift" or "talent" doesn't make an individual a better - or more valuable - human being. That's just hogwash. I think that's my biggest complaint with the issue - if/when there is a measurement of superior (or inferior) depending on these things. That's just harmful, in my view. So I can do "X". Someone else may have blue eyes. To me, they're no different. I was born with what I have, I didn't deliberately decide to do it one day, it was just there. So that, by default, makes it very un-extraordinary....

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-09 11:25 PM
Response to Original message
14. Someone's parents
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OmahaBlueDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-14-09 11:30 PM
Response to Original message
15. I did. I was describing my older daughter
Edited on Sat Feb-14-09 11:30 PM by OmahaBlueDog
Her photo is in the dictionary next to "Gifted & Talented"


We made up a term to describe our younger daughter. - Satan.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Sat Aug 23rd 2014, 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » The DU Lounge Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC