So I have this friend (need some advice)

[Orrex]

I've known him for close to two decades, and I see him perhaps twice a year. He spends some time camping near where I live, and he drops by on his way into and out of town. Sometimes he stays at our place the night before or after camping.

Several issues on which I'd like your advice:

We usually wind up talking until quite late at night, often about his ongoing failure to get into/maintain any sort of longterm romantic relationship. Well, the main reasons for this are simple and straightforward: his hair and beard are horrifically unkempt, and his personal hygiene is abominable, and they have been for years. At a glance and sniff, he is indistinguishable from the classic hermit/wildman of old.

I'm very comfortable with a live-and-let-live attitude; if he wants to look and smell like a fermented cavemen, that's his business. But when he says "I wish I could find someone," what the hell am I supposed to say? The primary source of his difficulty is staring me right in the nose, and he'd greatly improve his chances with a quick hose-down and a visit to the barber. Should I speak up? Or should I let him continue in his fetid bafflement?

Additionally, even though I sort of know approximately when to expect him (usually within the space of a week) he never calls or emails me to tell me for certain. He just shows up stinking on my doorstep, expecting food and lodging. This has been going on for several years now, and it's starting to become slightly burdensome, both because it's impossible to make plans and because we have two young sons, so it's hard to accommodate someone on the spur of the moment (no guest bedroom, so we put down an air mattress in the dining room). We also aren't exactly wealthy, so we keep to a fairly strict food budget, yet my friend could (and would) happily eat a side of beef and ask for more.

My wife has (correctly IMO) noted to me that it wouldn't be so bad if he'd show up with a token "thank you" gift for our hospitality. Something like a nice bottle of wine, or maybe he could even order pizza for us. But no. He just shows up semi-announced on our doorstep and waits to be fed and watered. It's not as though he's stuck for cash, either; this week he told me about the $1,000 he spent on European lumber for an authentic Saxon bedframe that he's building.


So what do you recommend? I grow weary of his perennial romantic woes, and I've just about lost patience with the way he takes our hospitality for granted. How do I mention either of these to him without causing a great big mess?

:mad:

[skygazer]

1. I'm unsure why you don't want to confront this

Would it really be a loss to your life if this rude, unkempt, stinky person stopped showing up at your doorstep and demanding food, lodging and a sympathetic ear? What is it you feel you owe him? You don't mention a single redeeming characteristic.

[Orrex]

7. Well...

Part of my reluctance is simply the momentum of history. Having known him so long, I am inclined to be concerned about his feelings even if he is frequently ignorant of others'.

He's truly not a bad guy, though he is an inconsiderate guest.


Your matter-of-factness about it is good, though; I shouldn't agonize over it so much and should instead deal with it more directly.



Thanks!

[bertha katzenengel]

2. Whoa.

If it were me, I'd tell him to get his hygiene up to 21st century American standards. Then I'd tell him that the unannounced visits stop. If he wants to buy dinner, he's welcome, but not unannounced. And no more staying the night. Announced or not. Period.

That's what I'd tell him. But I'd have to write it out and rehearse the talk several times first. Not read from a script, just make sure i have all my thoughts lined up so it sounds coherent.

That's just what I'd do. And I'd probably have to force myself to keep in mind that his reaction is his business - not a problem I have created. I have to take care of myself; he's responsible for his own feelings.

I wish you the best of luck in dealing with your friend. :hi:

[Orrex]

8. Oddly enough

I've been preparing a sort of script in my head over the past few days. I know that if I'm not careful in my presentation, he'll latch onto some trivial or irrelevant point and refuse to let the discussion move past it.

Thanks!

[regularguy]

3. The first one sounds doable...

Maybe no one has ever told him that you need to make at least some small concessions if you want to find a romantic partner. You would probably be doing him a favor here. As far as telling some one (who I assume is old enough that they shouldn't have to be told) about the basics of courtesy that a guest should show...well that sounds a little dicey. Have you considered pretending that no one is home?

[Orrex]

16. Good ideas

I have the sense that, at this point, the insane beard and absent hygiene have become sort of bound up in his own conception of his identity, and he's afraid to change what he sees as a fundamental part of himself.

The real tragedy is that it's almost this simple: if he cleans himself up, he'll get a date. He's fiercely intelligent and he has a pretty good sense of humor. He's also not bad looking, after he's shorn and the patina is wiped away.

[SeaLyons]

4. You need to confront him

and be truthful. He sounds like someone that needs the truth. You can do it in a kind but confident manner and let the chips fall where they may.

Good luck.

[Orrex]

12. Thanks--that just might work

I'll have another opportunity to discuss it with him in the near future...

[YankeyMCC]

5. Ok

On the first issue I would not hesitate to give him a verbal smack upside the head :) It's fine if he wants to live they way he wants to live (obviously) but that should include awareness of what that means in terms of his relationships - and potential for relationships - with the rest of the world. Sometimes it takes a friend to point this out and when it's done in friendship there is absolutely no reason not to speak up.

On the drop ins. I have a friend like yours who I see just about as often and under similar circumstances - at least that was the case for a while during my time in the Air Force. The 'thank you gift' idea is certainly reasonable in some respects but really I'm sure he just sees it as a hospitality thing, like the ancient Greek idea of 'guest friend' and that he would obviously provide similar hospitality or support in some other way to you when you needed it. The fact that the relationship is such that you're not availed yourself of that yet and maybe don't see it as likely doesn't dawn on him and in my case I accept that. You never know you may need to call on him sometime.

But of course a guest should not impose unduly and without consideration. One time my friend showed up with a friend of his, someone I know but who I'm not fond of (which he knows), and this friend was even more dirty and gross than he was, and my wife had just come home from the hospital with our new born son. This was too much but I did let them stay the night. But I was leaving the following day on a Temporary Duty assignment and when they asked to stay in my home I took my friend aside and told him "NO" and explained it was more about this other guy and that it was to much to ask of my wife.

Food is a little trickier, harder to draw a line, but I would suggest that the next time he comes gently remind him of your hospitality and make mention of your limits. If he still gorges himself during his stay when he leaves explain to him you can no longer support that and if he can't adjust his eating behavior he needs to make other arrangements for food and board next time.

[Orrex]

17. I've been thinking about that 'guest friend' notion

And that might be approximately what goes on in his mind. The problem, though, is that in the entire time I've known him, no one has ever crashed at his place (at least, not as far as I'm aware). And he lives in a tiny apartment miles from anything, so it's not exactly prime real estate, either. So even if he has it in his head that we've all got an unspoken mi casa/su casa thing going on, you'd think he'd be clued in by the fact that no one has ever taken him up on the deal.

And I agree with you about the smack upside the head. For a long time he's played this kind of game wherein he laments that he's not interested in anyone so superficial as to be turned off by looks, but in the very next breath he wonders why no magical woman will bother to look past his deliberately off-putting appearance. You can't have it both ways, pal!

Good suggestions--thanks!

[DeepBlueC]

23. he has an adolescent's attitude

The how I look shouldn't matter, it's the kind of person I AM that counts is a fiction beloved of socially insecure, romantically ambitious adolescents. And it is also adolescent to figure that a grown-up's house is a cornucopia from which one can draw freely without any any obligation to reciprocate or to compensate in any way. He isn't calling you because that would give you the opportunity NOT to extend an invitation. Remember that. Kids will do that if they are not restrained by parents who understand the burden and expense of entertaining. Adults are supposed to have learned better. His romantic problems I think go well beyond grooming but they sure as hell had better start there. Tell him, you deserve it.

[hunter]

6. Sounds like he might be autistic and generally clueless.

If that's the case any practical advice you might have, presented in a neutral manner, probably isn't going to freak him out. Believe it or not he probably hasn't considered that it might be rude to simply show up on your doorstep, and it's quite possible he may not be able to consider it.

Check out The Man Who Loved Only Numbers a book about the mathematician Paul Erdős by Paul Hoffman.

Sadly, a lot of people on the autistic spectrum don't have any exceptional spark of brightness binding them to normal society and they are abandoned to the streets or warehoused by their families and welfare agencies.

[Orrex]

14. Autistic? Without a formal diagnosis, I wouldn't care to say. But clueless? Definitely!

In any case, the "neutral" route is probably the right way to go, so that it's not presented as a confrontation and more as an offering of honestly friendly advice.

I have absolutely nothing whatsoever to gain from lying to him, so perhaps he'll take my input as it's intended...


Thanks!

[Iggo]

9. If you tell him he stinks...

...I'm sure he'll be initally taken aback.

But if it helps him get laid, I'm just as sure he'll get over it.

Men be simple.

Oops...forgot to answer the second part. Here's how I'd try it: "Dude, out of respect to my house and the wife and kids, why don't you be a gentleman and bring a little something when you drop in...you know, just to show you appreciate the hospitality. I don't know, maybe a bottle of the wife's favorite vintage...or heck, order a couple of pizzas! Nothing extravagant. Just a little token."

I've been a couch surfer, and I've accomodated couch surfers. The direct approach, in private, is usually the best way to handle it.

[Orrex]

15. Everyone tells him that he stinks. It's been a running gag (and I do mean gag) for years

Good advice on the second part--maybe I'll give that a try.

[Iggo]

21. Aw, heck.

I just repackaged your own words.

[distantearlywarning]

10. Just out of curiosity, Orrex...

Are you anywhere near Pittsburgh, PA?

And would this friend be visiting Cooper's Lake Campground in late July/early August? ;-)

[Orrex]

11. Uh...

Check your PM...

[Rhiannon12866]

13. Wow, that's a big one, but I sympathize.

My suggestion is, when he mentions his lack of romantic life, is to suggest that most women would prefer a guy to be clean shaven. That's not necessarily true, since my SO has a mustache, but it might give him an idea...:shrug:

But I wouldn't bet on it, since he does sound pretty clueless. As for the other things, that's much harder. Since he is your friend, you could, unfairly, of course, put them off on your wife and sons. You could say that, because of the children, you need to keep to a routine, so you'd like to know when he's coming, to make preparations, since it would upset the routine. Your wife needs to plan dinners and the kids need to know when he's coming, since they like him, and get excited, so need to prepare them for his arrival. Does that work? :shrug:

As for the cost, you could work that in, in a subtle way, say that you're worried about some specific expense. I know that he might be too dense to get this, but that is what I'd do. Good luck with this...:hi:

Rhiannon :-)

[Orrex]

18. Fine suggestions!

The one about the preference for a clean-shaven guy seems especially promising. I've even tried suggesting that he keep his beard short and neat, instead of Grizzly Adams on crack, but I've never come out and said "women prefer it that way, dumbass!" Maybe this time...

I don't have any problem invoking the wife and kids in this case, because his drop-in visits really are disruptive, so there'd be nothing wrong with pointing this out.

Thanks for chiming in!

[AZSlacker]

19. Are they clumsy.. but well spoken?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome


(I have this.. usually I'm clueless about my effects on others until I'm told)

[UTUSN]

20. Start with "impossible to make plans"

So he has e-mail and a phone? Let him know that from now on, with your family's needs coming first, you will go about your plans without regard to his vague schedule. That's a hint that something is different.

But as far as his hygiene goes, you say it's been openly acknowledged among the friends, so surely he knows about it. When he asks the same question, you might say, "Well, actually there really IS somebody for everybody, every lifestyle, look for somebody who does what you do (i.e., not washing)." If he asks for specifics, say, "Oh, somebody in crafts, likes the outdoors, who isn't obsessive about (hygiene)..."


You know, criminally rude neighbors---the ones who have hugh!1 numbers of partiers and park in front of all the neighbors' houses, who let their car alarms go off randomly all around the clock, who don't cut the grass in the easement in the alley, who don't pick up the free newspapers or trim the edges of their yard (do these sound specific for some reason?)---I used to feel sorry about making waves, but THEY *don't* have pity, sympathy, respect...


How about a more blunt speech than what I started with in this post: "You know, we have changed over the years, our friends, me with my family. My family now is #1 in my plans. But it seems like YOU haven't changed much over the years. If a friend can't tell you something intimate, WHO can? You're always asking why, and the reason is how you present yourself. I think you already know it. Maybe you ask over and over because you wanted us, your friends, to SAY it. There are points in a life when it's time for a tune-up, a reality check, maybe even a medical check-up, and a change of habits, like hygiene. Like Paul NEWMAN in (The Color of Money) where he went back to playing pool and got glasses."

[Orrex]

25. Fine points, and reassuring!

He typically has some excuse handy to explain why he didn't call or email ("Vonage is screwing me" or "Hotmail can't get through to Comcast" or something similar). I don't believe this, but so far I haven't pushed it.

Regarding the "someone for everyone" angle, I agree. And in fact I've pointed out to him that, in all likelihood, he won't be happy with the woman he'll snare with his "hygiene? what's that?" approach. That sounds rather sexist, I admit, but I mean it purely as a commentary on his personal upkeep than on any kind of superficiality of women.

Your last paragraph is also quite helpful. Thanks!

[lildreamer316]

22. I have a possible feeling...

that the "$1000 on European lumber" may be fiction.
No offense to either of you, please; just sayin'...men have to keep up their ego/apperances somehow.
Hope I am completely wrong.
Best of luck!

[Orrex]

24. No offense taken at all, but I'll tell you this...

He showed me the disassembled bedframe in the back of his truck, and if he said that it's European lumber, then he means it. In any case, he might have exaggerated the price, but I don't know why he would do so: he knows that it wouldn't impress me in the slightest, and in fact a higher price tag would have invited my ridicule!

And I've seen him spend ridiculous amounts on ridiculous things in the past, so it wouldn't be out of the realm of the possible...