Aren't we each gifted in different ways?

[uppityperson]

I don't understand the "gifted adults" thing? Not being snarky (I could but am not), I don't understand because I consider most everyone gifted in some way.

[saltpoint]

1. Most singers' jobs are safe, but dammit, I'll crank up a tune in the

shower once in awhile.

[Bonobo]

2. I think the problem lies with the term "gifted".

We are all "gifted" or "blessed: in some way. I think the group you are talking about has, in some way, felt victimized by being labelled as "gifted".
So their group idea is not so much for those that are gifted as it is by those that feel like victims...maybe?

If not, maybe they just need to be gifted with a wee bit more humility.

[RagingInMiami]

10. But if they would have never announced that they were gifted

I would have never known.

[eShirl]

13. they didn't decide they were gifted

they were told

[JuniperLea]

15. Ouch!

Don't look now, but I think you just insulted yourself!

[RagingInMiami]

34. How did I insult myself?

There are several DUers whose intelligence I respect. None of those DUers are claiming they need a separate group because they are so gifted.

[JuniperLea]

44. Did I miss something?

Who claimed they "needed" a special group because they were gifted?

:shrug:

[redqueen]

55. Not victimized

Just confused... those of us who never "grew the fuck up" are still struggling.

Tough luck for us.

Time for me to shut the fuck up now, I suppose.

[benburch]

3. Indeed we are.

I used to be in Mensa (my first wife got me into it) and there were many people who were members who might have been good at tests, but their gifts were simply not intellectual.

So, I am not even sure what the category means!

[bananas]

12. It's a formal term used by educators and social scientists. nt

[benburch]

14. I know.

My son was gifted. And failed at school pretty much constantly. I was gifted. I score really well on IQ tests. But I don't feel like I am much smarter than most people if ANY.

So I am not at all certain what the damned term really means. I am not at all certain if it actually describes a group of people in such a way that two unbiased observers would make the same selections.

[JuniperLea]

19. Most extremely intelligent people do poorly in school

Especially these days when education has been dumbed down so everyone doesn't feel bad.

Have you ever heard BushCo bashing those damn intellectual university types? It's just another way to divide and conquer. Make sure that the gifted people are stigmatized and hated so no one will listen to them. It's like the university professor who has come out and said Cheney is responsible for 9/11... damned liberal intellectuals. Moon bats.

[Quixote1818]

40. Here is a list of people who would not have been in the "gifted class"

All these people had some form of learning disability and struggled with at least part of their early studies. What a bunch of dullards!


Scott Adams
Tim Armstrong
Eric B. Borgman
Charles Dance
Samuel Delany
Ben Elton
Harrison Ford
Henry Ford
Richard Ford
Susan George
Danny Glover
Whoopi Goldberg
Duncan Goodhew
Jon Courtenay Grimwood
Susan Hampshire
Tommy Hilfiger
Eddie Izzard
Thomas Jefferson
John F. Kennedy
Jodie Kidd
Jay Leno
Sid Meier
Lawrence Oliver
Steve Redgrave
Oliver Reed
Keanu Reeves
Guy Ritchie
Scott Robinson
Nelson Rockefeller
Anita Roddick
Rodin
Charles Schwab
Jackie Stewart
George Washington
Thomas J. Watson, Jr.
Willard Wigan
Robin Williams
Woodrow Wilson
Henry Winkler
Benjamin Zephaniah
Carl XVI Gustaf
Hans Christian Andersen
Alexander Graham Bell
Winston Churchill
Walt Disney
Thomas Edison
Albert Einstein
Michael Faraday
Keira Knightley
Pablo Picasso
Leonardo da Vinci
HM The King Carl XVI Gustaf of Sweden
Ann Bancroft
Orlando Bloom (Lord of the Rings and Kingdom of Heaven)
Richard Branson (Virgin Group)
Tom Cruise
Noel Gallagher
Whoopi Goldberg
Duncan Goodhew
Anthony Hopkins
Ingvar Kamprad (IKEA)
Jay Leno
General George Patton
Gwen Stefani
Quentin Tarantino
Ted Turner (AOL Time Warner)
Henry Winkler
Keira Knightley

[JuniperLea]

50. You don't know that for sure

Many gifted people have what appears to be learning disabilities, ADD, ADHD, etc. My son, who has an IQ in the 99.9% was horribly dyslexic when he was young and almost constantly failed at math up to the third grade. He's a chemical engineer now.

[pitohui]

121. the list appears to be at least partly invented

i am not going to vet the entire thing but see my other post -- picasso being on the list is abt as ridiculous as if they'd tried to claim that mozart wouldn't have been in the gifted class

[pitohui]

120. pablo picasso was in fact a child prodigy

maybe it's unfair to question the entire list because one of the items listed is demonstrably untrue, but it does make me uncomfortable w. it and wonder how many other inaccuracies are found therein

picasso was (miserable word!) extremely gifted and recognized for his talent and technical skills in representational art even in his early teens

i should have thought the early recognition of picasso's gift was quite well-known, there are a number of stories abt it, some people even claim to prefer his technically excellent (but to me un-original) work of his teen years

Pablo Picasso was born on October 25, 1881 in Malaga, Spain, as the son of an art and drawing teacher. He was a brilliant student. He passed the entrance examination for the Barcelona School of Fine Arts at the age of 14 in just one day and was allowed to skip the first two classes. According to one of many legends about the artist's life, his father, recognizing the extraordinary talent of his son, gave him his brushes and palette and vowed to paint never again in his life

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

23. Like you, I've done well on IQ tests

but I still can't balance well enough to ride a bike, and have difficulty with catching/thowing a ball. I can't look at something and know its length;yet I know people who were termed "average" in school who could do this with ease. The problem really is that educators have decided exactly what tasks are to be considered when applying the term "gifted".

My husband, whose IQ score bests mine by 10 points, did horribly in school, yet he's a genious when it comes to mechanical ability.

[JuniperLea]

16. That's a pretty broad brush

I've been in Mensa for nearly 20 years and my experience in no way resembles yours. We must have a different concept of what "intellectual" means.

Being in the top 2% IQ wise doesn't mean a person knows any more than the next, it only means they are better at figuring things out.

Einstein had no coordination at all. He couldn't tie his shoes or button his shirt, that's why you will always see him wearing loafers and a pull-over sweater.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

4. I agree with you

When I taught elementary school, I tried to instill this concept in everyone. I know once I was challenged by some students when they asked how in the world the kids in the mentally and phyisically challenged room were gifted, I said, "they are gifted in patience. What we do without thinking has taken them a long time to master, and yet they mastered it. That took a lot of patience, more than I think I have." It gave them a different perspective on what "giftedness" means.

[Mandate My Ass]

20. You said that so beautifully

What a wonderful analysis and sentiment. Thank you. :-)

[JuniperLea]

21. All you ever really needed to know can be found in rock 'n roll

And we need to remember that we live and learn from fools and from sages. The wisest man in the world feels dumbfounded by the realization that he doesn't know squat compared to what he doesn't know.

There is a Mensa group dedicated to spending time with the gifted kids you speak of... and they say they've learned more from those pure souls than in all their other learning experiences combined.

We need to get rid of this divisiveness. It's time to come together and stop falling into the trap of divide and conquer.

[omega minimo]

39. "Gifted" kids mastered "patience" waitin for the rest of class to catch up

:eyes: :boring: :yoiks: :eyes: :think: :boring:

[WritingIsMyReligion]

62. If we were good.

Sometimes we just got fed up with it.

:evilgrin:

[Skittles]

5. of course we are

all to often "gifted" means PRIVILEGED

[JuniperLea]

52. Bullshit

Where the hell is that coming from?

[murielm99]

6. I used to feel that way.

I felt that way until I met some total and complete fuck-ups who were good at nothing, but protected by family and friends from any real consequences. Not all of them were republicans, either.

[bananas]

7. "Gifted" was a formal term used by social scientists and teachers

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gifted

[yella_dawg]

8. No

Case in point: Bunnypants and crew.

[uppityperson]

11. They are gifted, in a very special way.

gifted @ being assholes

[smokey nj]

9. I'd like to think so........

Well, at least that's what I keep telling myself.

[JuniperLea]

17. It doesn't mean a person knows any more than the next

It only means that some are much better at figuring certain things out.


It's just not cool to be smart anymore. I think this whole deal about picking on people with a high IQ is bullshit. Bush would be proud. They always pick on those damn liberal intellectuals. They want us all stupid.

[idgiehkt]

18. theoretically, couldn't someone start a 'not gifted and untalented'?

I mean, if people feel excluded by this group's existence, couldn't a group be formed for the excluded ones?

[Buns_of_Fire]

25. I'll join whichever group gives me a decoder ring.

I like decoder rings. :-)

[conflictgirl]

28. That's like saying there's no need for BET

This frustrates me so much, because it denies the reality that life really is different for "gifted" people. The whole world is designed to cater to the normal majority, people who may be very bright and talented, but not have the specific set of traits that goes along with giftedness.

It's the same argument as when white people object to the existence of Black Entertainment Television and say "well, shouldn't we have White Entertainment Television, then?" The world is geared to favor white people, for the most part. The same way that the world is geared to favor "average" people.

Average or normal does not mean less intelligent or untalented. It means that your intellectual ability fits within a certain range that most people fall into. Most of us who have the gifted label would love to be called "average".

[omega minimo]

38. Insert "men" and "women's rights"

"It's the same argument as when white people object to the existence of Black Entertainment Television and say "well, shouldn't we have White Entertainment Television, then?" The world is geared to favor white people, for the most part. The same way that the world is geared to favor "average" people."

[JuniperLea]

51. Hear hear!

I'm pretty damn sick of the IQ bashing around here. Until you walk a mile in another's moccasins, you should keep your mouth shut, imho.

Being gifted always made me feel like a freak of nature, and since only 2% of the population has an IQ the same as mine or higher, I guess that proves my point. I was in "gifted" classes in elementary school, but they never told any of us why. We assumed we were stupid and needed extra help, or that because many of us came from poor families, we were being singled out for some treat to make up for the fact that we dressed shabbily and had holes in our shoes.

Privileged my lily white ass! Whoever said that is a freaking creep asshole numbnutts fuck head. I'm sorry, but I'm so sick of this shit.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

64. rAmen.

:thumbsup:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

22. Absolutely. But Some Are Definitely More Gifted Than Others.

:P

[LiberalPartisan]

24. Any adult who refers to themself as 'gifted'

really is way too self-involved.

[Quixote1818]

41. Or longs for the good old days of glory

when adults smothered them with warm fuzzy terms like "your gifted" or "your brilliant".

It reminds me of Ted Bundy on the show 'Love and Marriage' constantly talking about what a great High School football player he was while fitting someone with a new pair of shoes.

[Name removed]

56. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JuniperLea]

58. Why the sour grapes?

I think all the IQ bashing around here is pretty pathetic.

[Name removed]

60. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JuniperLea]

68. Ah, so anyone with a high IQ or is a member of a high IQ society

is a pathetic loser? And you don't think that having a very high IQ can be challenging in a world where people like you ridicule and alienate them?

[alcibiades_mystery]

72. No, just those whining about how difficult it is

For someone with a high IQ, you don't read very well, do you?

[redqueen]

74. so if you're stating any problem you have with bush, then you're a whiner

is that how it works?

any attempt to discuss issues is 'whining'?

why am i even bothering...

[alcibiades_mystery]

82. That would be a universal quantifier, yes?

I dunno, I'm kinda a dumb guy, you know? The answer to your question, when it is phrased as it is with that thar universal quantifier, is no. :rofl:

[redqueen]

84. not surprised to see you're only playing games

let me know if you'd ever like to attempt a serious conversation

[alcibiades_mystery]

91. On this matter a serious discussion is a structural impossibility

:rofl:

[redqueen]

94. i disagree. n/t

[JuniperLea]

75. So, you are so empathic

That you know how it feels for all people with a high IQ?

[alcibiades_mystery]

81. Ay yay yay

What a strange conclusion to draw.

[JuniperLea]

83. How is it strange? You seem to know so much about

the psychology of gifted people and speak with such authority, albeit self-attributed.

[alcibiades_mystery]

89. This is laughable

I really don't give a damn about so-called gifted adults, their psychological make-up, nor their supposed travails. There are far too many real problems in the world to obsess about ridiculous clowns claiming the status of tortured superiority on the basis of a second grade IQ test. Granted, there are also more ridiculous things (and people) in the world as well, but not many. You will come to the correct conclusion when you realize that I am merely laughing at the folly of it all, and that the entire discussion constitutes a minor diversion in my day, and barely that.

:rofl:

[redqueen]

93. do you have children?

if you had a gifted child, and they had already come home upset by feeling singled out by peers, would you still be rolling on the floor laughing at this 'minor diversion'?

[alcibiades_mystery]

102. I do

The best advice my father ever gave me was not to take the "gifted" label too seriously. That eliminated any problems with peers in advance, and has served me well. For a lot of this stuff, the so-called "gifted" do it to themselves (or their parents do it to them - check mirror). It's comical that many hold these little resentments into adulthood. That's what's really funny. In any case, I will pass that advice on to my daughter if the need should ever arise. With any luck, they will have killed off the utterly pointless "gifted" category before she's school-aged.

[redqueen]

107. this started happening before there was a gifted label.

nice try, though.

not really. actually it's quite sickening.

[alcibiades_mystery]

110. Who's trying?

What started happening? What are you even talking about? I guess I'm just too dumb to get your cryptic expressions...or maybe it's the demonstrative pronoun without an antecedent, but I'm well and truly lost trying to follow your thread.

[JuniperLea]

114. "I guess I'm just too dumb"

I guess I have to agree with you.

[redqueen]

119. just more evidence that it's all a game to some. n/t

[JuniperLea]

123. Evil genius? n/t

[redqueen]

118. she started feeling alienated

before any teachers approached me about any gifted programs.

sorry for being cryptic.

[Name removed]

96. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[alcibiades_mystery]

103. LOL

:rofl:

[JuniperLea]

105. Why do you continue to insult us and call us names?

We are ridiculous clowns? Our feelings don't count?

Not everyone found out they were gifted in second grade.

[alcibiades_mystery]

106. See previous reply

re: minor diversion.

Besides, I'm not the one who got a post deleted, gnaw mean?

[JuniperLea]

113. So you get your jollies out of insulting people?

That's telling.

[alcibiades_mystery]

129. I don't

suffer fools, gifted or otherwise.

But is it enjoyable? Yes.

[JuniperLea]

57. Bullshit

Where did you get that? Got proof? Got a link to a study proving your point?

[conflictgirl]

26. There's a difference between having talents and being "gifted"

I have participated on many message boards in the past 10 years, and I can say that every single time this topic comes up, it results in this sort of thing.

Yes, everyone is gifted in different ways. Some people are talented communicators, or have great spatial ability, have a natural ability to relate to children, etc. But that's different from the term "gifted". Giftedness has a certain set of characteristics that tend to be more common than in the overall population: perfectionism, depression (though this is more self-reported than proven), difficulty relating to others. According to some research, overlap between mild Asperger's syndrome and giftedness is fairly common.

The topic frustrates me because I don't think most people realize that giftedness is NOT necessarily a positive thing. Resenting the fact that some people have the gifted label is like resenting people with dyslexia or another learning disability. Gifted kids do not generally thrive in mainstream classrooms, because they have a different way of learning and learn at a different pace. There's a misconception that "gifted" just means "high IQ" and therefore those people with the gifted label should feel lucky that everything comes so easy to them. But in truth, everything does NOT come easy to people just because they have high intelligence. It is often harder. The world is designed to meet the needs to the normal majority.

Giftedness is NOT like Lake Wobegon where everyone is above average. If the schools you attended did not have a gifted program, odds are pretty good that the gifted kids were the ones who were the super nerds that nobody wanted to be around and when they talked about their interests, they almost seemed alien. For example, my son, who has been labeled as gifted, was trying to build a "lab" in our basement from the age of 4, in which he was trying very rudimentary (and humorous to watch) experiments that would switch people's DNA. Then he tried to invent a machine that would - and this is a quote from my then-4-year-old - "vanquish Bush and Cheney to the underworld". How many average 4 year olds use the word vanquish? How many average 4 year olds would go around collecting people's hair for the DNA to use in his experiment? Now imagine putting a kid like that in school where all the other kids are playing Spiderman or princess games.

It's not about thinking that giftedness is "special". It's about trying to find a safe place where such people - particularly children - can be accepted for who they are. On DU, I think that there doesn't seem to be much discrimination against gifted people, but in the rest of the world, it's certainly there. I've learned to compensate for it somewhat in my own life and I can function moderately well, but any time I try to have a normal conversation with people, my difference is immediately apparent. And most of us "gifted" adults aren't bragging about it, like the cliche of the MENSA member who mentions his MENSA membership in every conversation. (Although, bragging is another trait common to gifted people, particularly children, often made worse by well-meaning adults who are impressed to see a bright kid. Many gifted people make the mistake of thinking that they will have more friends if they have something that will impress others, not realizing that bragging rarely impresses anyone and creates resentment.)

I, like many other gifted adults, have wished many times to just be normal. It gets very hard sometimes trying to hide so much of who I am, just so that I can hope of passing for normal.

There's some information here that may be useful: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gifted

[nosillies]

29. perfect, thank you!

[WritingIsMyReligion]

66. Excellent post.

:thumbsup:

[JuniperLea]

76. Well said

Thank you!

No one would bat an eye at someone with a varsity letter, or multiple trophies denoting proficiency in a sport, or an Oscar or Emmy or Grammy sitting on a shelf, but let anyone mention Mensa and you are automatically labeled a freak. Then you are chastised for saying you feel like a freak. It's a no win situation. And now, when we have a government who enforces the idea that intellectuals are freaks, it's all the more difficult. And then we are chastised again for wishing we were "average".

Rock, meet hard place.

[Blue_In_AK]

115. "perfectionism, depression, difficulty relating to others"

describes my gifted daughter to a T. A beautiful young woman, who had excellent grades all through school, was reading Stpehen King before kindergarten, playing piano since 4 - but with low self-esteem, "lost puppy," loser boyfriends, and panic attacks at school dances, etc. These things make a parent feel helpless.

[JuniperLea]

124. When you feel different and don't know why...

It has a huge impact on you. You wonder why you are different, and because most people won't automatically think they are more intelligent, they tend to think in the opposite direction. Some people have no problems at all, but some of us do. Every person in the world is different.

I had loser boyfriends too. My mom used to say it was because my self-esteem was so low that I gravitated toward those who would make me feel better about myself. I didn't understand it until about four years ago when I found a man who was my equal, or probably even more intelligent if the truth be known.

I strongly suggest Mensa, and their special interest groups. There's one called Young M's that is purely a social group. I bet she'd feel instantly comfortable in that group.

Good luck.


:hug:

[johnnie]

27. Gifted...LOL

I can't believe that the idea of having a "gifted" forum is even being discussed on here. What a load of self-absorbed, idealistic, arrogant crap.

Yeah, there are a lot of people on DU that are pretty smart, but "gifted"? I haven't seen that yet. A lot of us were told we were "special" when we were young. I was one of those kids and I thought back then, as I do now, that it was a friggin' joke. I'm just a person who had an ability to do certain things more easily than others. But other people can do other things easier than I can.

Look at all the responses in these threads, everyone is a fucking genius. :eyes:

I personally don't see many here, but to be a genius in your own mind is a good thing I guess. I think we need a "I'm really self-conscious so I need to be known as "gifted" group. Anyone want to write the mission?

Get over yourselves people.

[nosillies]

30. There's nothing to get over.

I'm female, I'm white, I was born in Louisiana, I drive a Hyundai, I was tested and placed in gifted classes in school, I have blue eyes, I live in Florida, I voted for Kerry.

These are all simple facts about me and my life. Should I get over all of them? They all bring benefits and, at times, difficulties. What would be the harm if I wanted to get together with a group of people who drive Hyundais? Or a group of people from Louisiana currently residing in Florida?

[johnnie]

31. No harm if you want to start a Hyundais

95% of the people I meet claim they were born "gifted". A choice in a car you drive is much different than people claiming to be "gifted". I don't care if people want to have a forum to stroke themselves, but it is embarrassing and laughable to see people on here thinking they are somewhat more intelligent than the "norm".

As I said, I have yet to see someone on DU that has shown me that they are of superior intelligence than most of the people on the planet. I have met too many people who claim they were told they were of above average and to me it is a joke. Have any group you want, I just think it was funny reading all the posts of all the people that consider themselves "gifted".

[Quixote1818]

43. Hitler was a "gifted" speaker and leader!

I guess that gets him in the group doesn't it? :shrug:

[JuniperLea]

78. Ever hear the term "evil genius"?

It's true. Still, I've never seen a verified account on Hitler's IQ. He could have been talented as a speaker and not necessarily a genius.

[LiberalPartisan]

32. Well said.

"The gifted individual often engages in extended periods of self-absorbed navel gazing characterized by an over developed sense of self-pity"

[JuniperLea]

54. Such bullshit

Why all the sour grapes toward smart people?

[redqueen]

59. I wish I understood.

But it indicates to me that I should just stick to LBN.

[JuniperLea]

67. I really wonder what is at the root of this hatred

I know and understand why BushCo bashes intellectuals, but to have DU members eating their own over this is ridiculous.

[redqueen]

90. disgust with / hatred of weakness?

apparently we're embarassing them with our displays of weakness and immaturity.

[JuniperLea]

98. Or the contrast is too much for them...

Or they simply do not understand... the unknown is generally the most feared.

To admit to weakness, imho, is a sign of maturity. The inability to admit that one is not perfect is puerile.

[Quixote1818]

42. Thank You! I would much prefer a forum of people who help the poor

or work for different charity's. Being smart is meaningless if you don't put it to good use to make the world a better place.

[JuniperLea]

125. Yet you want to deny people a place to better themselves

Damned if we do, damned if we don't.

[JuniperLea]

77. Ah... so because you lack the faculties to recognize anyone as gifted

You think it's a load of crap. Brilliant.

"Look at all the responses in these threads, everyone is a fucking genius."

You want my Mensa membership number so you can check it out for yourself?

And you can't see, by the responses here, that it is difficult?

[johnnie]

127. No thanks

I really don't need your membership ID, I believe you are another genius. As I have said before, I was also considered one of those "gifted" kids and I didn't care either way. I never felt the need to show anyone how "brilliant" I am by joining groups of people who can't handle their "gift".

I never considered myself anything more than another person. My accomplishments are for myself and I don't feel that I have anything to prove. Actually, I don't care if they start a group here for a bunch of people to discuss their genius, I just thought it was funny.

Sorry if I hurt some feelings.

[Raine]

33. No

unless you count terminal stupidity as a gift, the kind that chimp has.

[Rosemary2205]

35. Einstein was an idiot.

All those smarts and he couldn't get along with other people - tossed out of school.

Now Ben Franklin - there was a smarty pants. Solved all kinda problems and got along with everyone but his wife and son.

Obviously "gifted" is open to interpretation.

[JuniperLea]

86. That doesn't make him an idiot!

You are talking about two different things. Gifted is only open to interpretation if you don't understand it, and clearly, you don't if you can call Einstein an idiot.

[pitohui]

36. no most people are clearly not gifted

it is a nice thing to say but of course we are not each gifted in different ways

most people are just people, not gifted in any way whatsoever

i wonder sometimes if one reason we have so much clinical depression in this country is because of people who feel obligated to be special or gifted, i have so many friends who wanna-be in arts or music and it just isn't going to happen, for all of their "gifts," there isn't room in this world for everybody to be gifted and special -- and so many of them seem to suffer from the disease of depression

most of us have to go to work, come home, and cook dinner and if you pressure kids to be "gifted" on top of living real life, you just make them 99.9 percent of them miserable because most of us can't and shouldn't be "stars"

i think i was lucky in that i was pressured to be "gifted" in an area where i was so spectacularly w.out any "gifts," as i told on the other thread, it was obvious to all except my mom that her fantasy that i was a great prodigy was utterly ridiculous, hard to entertain any fantasies of my own giftedness in that circumstance, but many people actually have a slight talent that they could use for their own pleasure altho not realistically for earning a living -- and their pleasure in that "gift" becomes a curse when they are hypnotized into taking their "gift" seriously by parents, teachers, and society

it probably wasn't even a week ago when a poster left a long thread, coming close to threatening suicide, because he was not able to do anything w. his "gift" of music, how then a gift?

[conflictgirl]

37. I think the depression has more reasons than that

Others in some of these threads have mentioned the fact that American culture no longer respects intellectual achievement or the arts, and I think that's very true. Even here on DU there have been discussions about "worthless" college majors and how people who major in any of the liberal arts have only themselves to blame. This is applicable to a lot of people, not just those who would be considered gifted. I'm in this boat right now - I'm majoring in sociology and have a very high GPA, and I'm very good at school (in contrast to my slacker years in high school when I did very poorly) but even my mom has pointed out that being good at sociology isn't really worth anything. This society rewards people who have skills that will make a lot of money, not those who are academics or philosophers or artists. It can be really depressing to be told that the things that you're best at aren't things that matter.

[BluePatriot]

47. "It can be really depressing..."

"It can be really depressing to be told that the things that you're best at aren't things that matter."

Well said! I am tired of people saying "welcome to the real world" or "get used to reality..."

[pitohui]

112. but it shouldn't be depressing

we make it depressing because we make our so-called "gifts" abt success and/or money

gifted in music, then you are supposed to get out there and be a star -- and if you end up like most just playing for drunks at weddings, then you are a failure, oh woe time to get all depressed because you are just a working joe like everybody else!

be gifted at something that can't possibly be used to pressure you into being a success, and you can be perfectly happy, for example, my ex told me that i was good at finding rainbows -- and he's right, i am, but this is not the kind of gift that can be twisted into anything but pleasure

maybe the things i am best at don't "matter" but why should society pressure me to only do things that "matter"

i guess i am saying to both of you -- if you are enjoying your gift, then avoid making it abt money or you will spoil it, as mom points out sociology is unlikely to be the path to fame and fortune (unless you write junk sociology like the bell curve that appeals to the special interests and the hate groups) so do it to explore your own interests and a big raspberry to those who don't understand -- there is ALWAYS gonna be somebody to pressure you to chase a dollar, even if you weren't gifted, people would be pressuring you to chase the dollar, the only way to happiness is to decide for yourself if you want to chase...or not

[lonestarnot]

45. Always someone intent on starting a click somewhere. LOL

That marginalization of others so they fit in is a fucking lost cause in my way of looking at things.

[MadHound]

46. I have a feeling that a gifted forum is going to be much like MENSA

A group of people measuring how intelligent they are, and looking down on everybody else. I easily qualified for MENSA(IQ 160). However I gave it up because of the attitudes which the majority of members displayed. It's nice to be intelligent and all, but one has to get along with other people in society. IMHO, this is all more of the same ol', same ol' highschool clique shit. Time to grow up and move on.

[JuniperLea]

49. Bullshit

I've been a member for a very long time and although your statements are typical, and stereotypical, there are not based in reality.

I have never, ever in my long association with Mensa seen any member lord their IQ over another member or anyone else.

[redqueen]

61. I was looking forward to

talking with parents of gifted children... so that I could better help them avoid the pitfalls I fell right into.

It was very depressing to read that people thought my whole problem was that I needed to 'grow the fuck up'... I guess I'll tell my kids that when they have problems. I'll just say "grow the fuck up". Maybe that'll work for them. Whatever my parents did didn't work for me, so I'll try that.

:sarcasm:

In reality, I'll just use books. And maybe seek out a group somewhere else. It was not until today that I realized just how important it is for me to find a way to help my children deal with what they're going to be going through.

So disappointing, this place, sometimes.

[distantearlywarning]

85. Hey RedQueen.

Re: The "grow the fuck up" post you are referring to - I also found it incredibly insulting. That was probably the most insensitive and hostile thing any DUer has ever said to me in the two years I've been here.

I'm a little shocked and depressed by those threads today. I had no idea how much hate and anger there was out there about this subject. I thought a lot of DUers at least would understand this problem to some degree. I mean, there's a good chance that one of the primary reasons why John Kerry lost in 2004 was because other people despised him for being smart. It's NOT a good thing to be too bright in today's America, and nobody exemplifies that prejudice better than the Republican Party, who have convinced at least half of America that being intelligent is a sign of bad character. I guess some DUers have been convinced of that as well. It's sad.

[JuniperLea]

87. Very well said

Bush would be proud of DU today.

[redqueen]

95. apparently we're not qualified to determine what's an issue

worth discussing, and what's not

good thing there are smarter people around to tell us what's worth our time and energy...

[mzteris]

97. you can come over to

the homeschooling forum - ALL of our kids are gifted. lol...

Seriously, I know some in there are. Liberal hs'ers are usually hs'ing for a REASON (not connected to religion). Generally speaking (painting with a VERY broad brush here), our kids' educational needs are not being met because they lie outside of the median at one end or the other - or oftimes BOTH!

I'm also on some loops/groups for gifted children and for gt/ld kids, too (and not necessarily just hs'ers, either) if you're interested.

[redqueen]

100. yes, i'd be interested in the non-HS groups...

if they were homeschooled, the whole peer group dymanic thing wouldn't be an issue... not until college, anyway

[mzteris]

104. Not even in college.....

many hs'ers wind up taking college level courses while still in highschool. Generally, they're better prepared for college than the average PS'er - being quite good at time Management and being self-directed, etc.

If you're talking about "socialization" - that, too, is a huge myth. I need a calendar just to keep up with my son's "social calendar"! :)

One of the nice perks of hs'ing is that the "whole peer group dynamic thing" is rarely an *issue*.

[Xenotime]

48. We are all equal...

some are just more equal than others. (just a joke)

[redqueen]

53. I would have liked that forum.

Yes, we're all gifted in different ways.

There's not too many types of being gifted which get you alienated and disliked by default, though.

I'd like to extend my heartfelt gratitude to all who ridiculed those threads. I'll be sure to tell my daughters to shut the fuck up and be glad they're not dyslexic the next time they come home upset because they feel shut out from peer groups at school. I mean after all... any insight I would have gained from other gifted adults about ways to deal with those issues couldn't be valuable... not compared to the shining beacon of your outstanding intellects.

[JuniperLea]

63. Say it loud and proud, redqueen.

Seems there are many who never grew up and are still alienating the smart kids.

Pathetic, truly pathetic. BushCo would be proud. They are always bashing the intellectual types too.

[redqueen]

65. what? that i still need to "grow the fuck up"?

why should i be proud of that?

[JuniperLea]

69. Sorry, I think there's a misunderstanding...

Please read your post and then mine... I'll do that right now too...

[JuniperLea]

70. Total misunderstanding...

I was saying that the kids who alienated your daughters are akin to those on DU who want to ridicule and alienate anyone with a high IQ or belong to a high IQ society.

[redqueen]

73. sorry...

thanks

[JuniperLea]

79. No problem

This is a very heated topic. It's not easy to communicate effectively while dodging insults... I should have read my own post over and made it clearer.

[redqueen]

80. no... i wasn't upset with you... just with the responses to the topic

you never told me to 'grow the fuck up'

[JuniperLea]

92. Doh! I get it now...

Yeah, it's pretty ironic that those who are least able to understand and have absolutely no adult concepts have the nerve to tell another to "grow up" or "get over yourself". I guess they somehow think that being a self-absorbed, insulting smartass somehow trumps intelligence. Whatever.

[redqueen]

99. oh no, i'm sure they're intelligent, too...

intelligence does not come bundled along with empathy, consideration, kindness, tact, etc.

[JuniperLea]

116. Well said. n/t

[Burma Jones]

71. Isn't a Gifted Adult just a trust fund beneficiary?

or maybe a slave, I dunno.....

[Deja Q]

88. Oh yes. I'm good at making people moan

in disgust over either one of my bad jokes, or over the usual repetitive topic I can't get away from. :rofl:


Now what were you thinking? :wow: :spray:

[mzteris]

101. Have you ever met

a Highly Gifted or Profoundly Gifted person? (I most definitely do NOT fit either of those categories, btw.)

By way of "illustration only" - have you ever interacted with someone who has an IQ significantly less than yours? What is the difference? 30 points, 50? Now imagine someone whose IQ is that much MORE than yours.

I'm not implying in any way shape or form that "gifted" is "better". That "gifted people" ARE "better. They're just different. Some are VERY different.

Maybe use of the word "gifted" is an unfortunate choice.

Yes, EVERYONE has "gifts" - but it's the type and depth of use.

Or, maybe you'd relate to - playing basketball with Michael Jordan. Or driving a race car against Jeff Gordon (is that the right name?). Singing Opera with Pavarotti. Playing a piano duet with Andre Watts. How about a guitar riff with Jimmy Hendrix?

You might be "GOOD". But you ain't THAT good. ;)

[alcibiades_mystery]

108. I agree...but neither are most of the people claiming "gifted" status

The phrase is thrown around a lot, and the designation handed out like candy.

Listen, some folks are just socially awkward. Not much can be done about it.

[distantearlywarning]

122. Unfortunately

if those of us so self-identified started discussing in detail exactly WHY we use that term (IQ scores and the like), people like you would accuse us of bragging or arrogance. There's no way to win.

And anyway, I'd like you to provide some evidence to back up your statement that "most" of the people who claim gifted status are just socially awkward normal people. How do you know this? Personal observation? Or do you actually know anything about gifted education and problems associated with gifted children?

[conflictgirl]

126. Re: the designation handed out like candy

I didn't mention this in any of the other threads because it wouldn't have been appropriate and would have looked like bragging, but in our school district, the program my son is in takes 20 kids out of each grade level in the entire school district (10 elementary schools). The kids are tested and parents can refer their kids for testing, but can't buy their child's way into the program if the kid doesn't deserve to be there. Where does this idea that the designation is "handed out like candy" - any actual statistics, or just an opinion that surely some of the people with the label don't merit it?

edited to clarify the ratio

[querelle]

109. Sure, I'm Gifted

But in ways that could get me banned from the site if I started to discuss them here.

Q

[alcibiades_mystery]

111. That would be Ms. Jackson...

if ya nasty!

;-)

[LaurenG]

117. Well with that attitude you'll have to get a new screen name

"I don't understand because I consider most everyone gifted in some way". That doesn't sound like something an uppity person would say.(Kidding) :7 :toast: :hi:

[ismnotwasm]

128. Sure

If you choose to look at people that way, (I do) it's a nice outlook

I think the debate was the term "gifted" seemed to imply superiority, and I didn't read that into the whole thing really. The ones labeled gifted seemed to be bothered by it for some reason, either from social or internal pressure or an inability to express themselves to the average person. Neither is a happy state, I assume.

Peoples actions toward their selves, other people and their environment mean a lot more to me than IQ. And I bet we all can agree on that.

I had a patient once, an engineer of some type. He was nearly paralyzed from a couple of diseases. He was absolutely charming, and very, very bright. We got to talking one night, and he starts telling me how to make a home made telescope. I thought he was very cool, he handled his intelligence and his disability with dignity and grace. He taught me a lot about intelligence and the human condition. A very kind, giving man.

[Skinner]

130. Locking.

For crissakes people. Enough with the gifted crap.