Males on DU: if you are attracted to a woman, and she tells

[kiraboo]

you she's not interested but wants to be friends, do you want to be her friend or are you hoping she'll just disappear?

[Deja Q]

1. Now a woman, that's a female - right?

:shrug:

[kiraboo]

2. Okay my friend

I wasn't asking you! :evilgrin:

[Catch22Dem]

3. Depends

Was this pretty much a stranger or was she someone I was already friends with?

[democracyindanger]

4. I already have enough friends.

Is what I say.

Far too often.

Thinking "Yeah, I could just be friends with her" or "Maybe I could swing a friends-with-benefits deal" or "This is going to be one of those 'a strong friendship is the basis for true love' things" is a fool's errand.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

5. You can never have enough friends.

That's a silly thing to say to someone.
Duckie

[Derailer]

9. word

[mrreowwr_kittty]

22. What are you saying there?

So once you are attracted to someone you are incapable of any type of relationship with her that doesn't include sex? If that's the case, then I wouldn't be surprised if you have to use that "I've got enough friends" line quite often. Newsflash: Women are people too.

[Derailer]

29. Newsflash

"Let's be friends" = She hates his fucking guts

[GirlinContempt]

31. Maybe when girls are talking to you

But I've said it many times and I didn't mean "I hate your fucking guts".

[Derailer]

32. well

that comment was in, what's the term...bad form?

Besides which, you can pretend to temper the sentiment all you want but it still boils down to "you're interested, I'm not, fuck off". Trumped up pretext of politeness or not

[GirlinContempt]

33. It's bad form to

not make assumptions about what other women have meant when they talked to you? I'll keep that in mind.

It doesn't always boil down to 'I'm not interested fuck off'. Unless the only thing the girl or the guy is interested in is sex. In which case, sure, I guess it does. But I've said that, and meant it, and remained friends with people.

It's a ridiculous statement to make.

[LostinVA]

98. Agreed on all of it n/t

[ghostsofgiants]

190. I've gotten the "lets be friend" thing a few times and we're still friends

I think one of the main reasons they want you to "fuck off" is that you're quite obviously a douche.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

37. Huh?!?

I wouldn't characterize my feelings toward the guys I've befriended yet not been attracted to physically as hatred. If I hate someone, then I avoid any interaction with him, period. Have you never been friends with a woman that you didn't care to bed down?

Where are you getting this?

I'll say it again: Women are fully functioning human beings with *gasp!* actual desires and tastes of our very own. We are not merely gatekeepers, waiting passively to hear the magic words that will make our pants fall off. I see too many guys with this attitude, complaining bitterly because the "How To Get Ass" strategies from Maxim magazine didn't pan out. Any woman with half a brain in her head gets justifiably insulted and irritated when a guy pulls that crap on her, which may be construed as "hatred" by him.

I'm not saying that's you because I don't know you but I'm definitely getting that sentiment from your statement.

[Hugin]

57. "How To Get Ass"

Oh, I see you've read matcom's article.

:rofl:

[redqueen]

69. I love you.

:hi:

[tigereye]

77. hey lady!

how are ya? Long time no see.

[redqueen]

81. Terrible!

Hehe... sorry... not polite to answer that question honestly is it?

The day started out great though!

How have you been?

[tigereye]

125. I always prefer when people answer the question honestly

since I usually do. ;)

It's been nice, my kid turned 10 recently, it's warm out and summer is coming. I'm not as busy with work this week, so I have more time to spend in the garden and doing some badly needed spring cleaning.

[redqueen]

136. I'm glad you're having a good time of it!

I did attend a fantastic concert last week, the best ever in fact... and I'm looking forward to going to a field trip with my youngest daughter... it'll be her first field trip and she's so excited! :)

[tigereye]

145. great!

there's a Renaissance concert tomorrow am at the kid's school, so I might check that out. And then we have the annual baseball game next week.

[crispini]

80. LOL!

:yourock:

[LostinVA]

97. You're so off base it isn't funny

It generally means the women does not have a sexual and/or romantic interest in you.... that's it.

[Book Lover]

173. What would you rather we say? (nm)

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

45. Amen to that.

Let's face facts - once you've categorized your attraction to someone, it's not likely to go away. Being their friend is an exercise in sado-masochism, so far as I'm concerned.

[LostinVA]

95. What a horrible thing to say to someone...

[democracyindanger]

169. Honesty is the best policy.

:shrug:

Don't know why so many people seemed to be so worked up about it. But I'd bet most of the offended folks have used the "friends" line plenty of times--and gone on to believe that everything's hunky dory and they're a great person because they have a new friend. :eyes:

Hilarious how one poster tried to turn this into a ZOMG!!!1!!! YOU SEXIST PIG!!!! thing. What a crock.

[flvegan]

6. Absolutely. If I'm attracted to a woman

it's not just about the physical aspects. I'd definitely want to be friends, as I'm sure we have a great deal in common and/or enjoy each other's company.

[Maru Kitteh]

11. You - are impossibly wonderful. I don't see myself traveling to FL

anytime soon but if I do, expect a MONSTER hug.

[flvegan]

12. Looking forward to it.

But no, I'm not impossibly wonderful. I just am. Very, very nice of you to say.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

24. That's what I think too

Whenever a guy has gotten all petulant with me because I didn't return his attraction, there's no clearer sign that he was never interested in ME in the first place.

[redqueen]

70. Can you clone yourself?

Or just mentor a bunch of young guys?

How about you write a book?

:hug:

[flvegan]

204. That was very nice of you to say.

I try to lead by example (though I can be quite the jerk around here, too).

As a matter of fact...a book...hmmm...

[Autonomy]

7. You don't know guys do you?

If the guy is REALLY interested, the guy goes along with the "friends" thing, and hangs in there waiting for an opening. That's the standard M.O.

Chris Rock said it best: "...because you NEVVVVER know. ;)"

[JVS]

87. Yes, but this can often leave to an unsatisying situation that eventually

is given up in acceptance of the fact that it isn't ever going to happen. Then your friend is wondering "I wonder why I haven't seen bob for 7 months?"

[ZombieNixon]

8. If she has the integrity to come out and say it without playing games,

then yes, absolutely. Without question, that is the kind of person who I would want to be friends with. I have a couple friends like this, anyhow, who I am very lucky to know.

If, however, she's been stringing me along with intent to drop my ass like a sack of garbage, then no. I don't need to know someone like that.

[jpgray]

10. No

The attraction will get in the way. But we should define our terms: if you think she is attractive objectively, but subjectively she does zip for you, that can work fine.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

13. Depends

I generally assume the response is a polite blow-off, which is fine. At that point, I don't usually make the effort (or have much desire) to try to be friends.

If she then makes an affirmative effort to be friends -- which is somewhat rare -- then I will reassess and decide if I actually want to be friends with her. Since I was obviously attracted to something about her in the first place, that is a positive, but on the flip side there is the issue of whether it would be too much of a hassle to have a friendship, and/or whether it would be too tantalizing or difficult for me to be in close proximity to her like that. I suppose it depends on how strongly I was interested in her.

DTH

[Evoman]

14. Disappear

Just want to be friends = I'm not interested in you but I'm to nice to say fuck off

No one who says that actually wants to be your friend. And if you do want to become her friend, do it because you want to be her friend, not because you actually think you have a chance. Too many guys are to dumb to realize they are never going to be her boyfriend. Acting as a friend in order to maybe get her later is stupid, not to mention uncouth.

[Guava Jelly]

15. I'd still like to be her friend

you never know what may blossom from a friendship

[ChoralScholar]

16. it's a nonissue

She doesn't want to be friends anyway. She is just saying it to keep from looking like a complete hose beast.

[sendero]

17. How optimistic are you?

Really, I think you will find most guys to believe that there is nothing worse. I'd rather be told "I can smell your feet a mile away" than to be told "let's be friends".

That said, I blew at least one potentially incredible relationship because the woman in question told her friend that I was "ok for a friend" and after she clearly changed her mind I was still too pissed about it to let it go anywhere.

So, bottom line, if you *really* like this person you will accept friendship on her terms. You probably don't really even know why she's going the "friendship" route, it may have nothing to do with what she thinks of you and everything to do with where she's at vis a vis relationships, i.e. maybe she's still getting over someone.

But it is true whether anyone likes it or not, friendship between a man and a woman is sometimes the best killer of physical attraction that can ever be.

[tigereye]

85. you said

'But it is true whether anyone likes it or not, friendship between a man and a woman is sometimes the best killer of physical attraction that can ever be."

that's kind of sad. I always felt that in most of my relationships, there was at least an element of friendship that DROVE the physical attraction and increased it. For me, if a guy didn't like my mind AND body as a package, it wasn't real attraction. And, having been married to the same guy for a really long time, I can honestly say that our knowing and liking each other as friends first, lovers and partners has actually improved our level of attraction to each other.

And oddly enough, the first time I went out with him, I ended up telling him I wanted to be friends, since I just wasn't ready for the physical. He was pissed, but we ended up together anyway. :)

[Broken_Hero]

18. yeah...

most of the women, i went after, i got hit with the "I want to be friends" line countless times, but I geniuenly became/and still are friends with most of them. I have come across women, who say that line, but in truth, just want to be 230948302478023948720348 miles away from me, and i subtley give them the mutual boot, and don't bother with them anymore, or even stay in touch...in cases like that, the woman pushes the issue, i can just tell, she is abhorred by me...

[SlavesandBulldozers]

19. depends on how hot she is.

just sayin. . . damn.


;)

[reyd reid reed]

20. 98.6

[SlavesandBulldozers]

25. that's a good start.

now on to the 1-10 scale. ;)

[GirlinContempt]

21. After reading those replies

Maybe you should be asking the ladies about this :P

[kiraboo]

43. Yeah, I think you're right.

In my case, I genuinely want to be a friend with a very kind and intelligent man. But I know beyond a doubt that it will never be anything more than that, from my perspective. I was wondering about his. The answers here are all over the place, not surprisingly.

[GirlinContempt]

47. Well

As long as you're upfront and honest with him, you've done all you can. If he decides that because he isn't getting a 'steady fuck' or that you really mean you hate him, or that he has 'enough friends', and buggers off, that's his problem. He's probably missing out and you probably aren't :)

[leftofthedial]

23. friends?

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

that's a good one. women are only good for three things, and friends ain't one of them.

Uh, oops. I got this mixed up with the "post-like-a-freeper" thread.

Never mind.

:blush:

[RoyGBiv]

26. Disappear ...

Woman says, "I want to be friends."

Male hears, "I find you abhorrent."

[Swede]

27. Stay friends.

I think I'd be kinda shallow if I told her to go away.

[Derailer]

30. Shallow, maybe, but happier

since by walking away you'll eventually find, at the least, a steady fuck

[Bridget Burke]

41. "a steady fuck" ?

With that attitude, you will probably find a succession of quick fucks. If you are lucky, each one will be followed by "let's just be friends." Or you might get the more basic "you repulse me now."

[kiraboo]

78. No shit. Why would a decent woman (and I am) be looking

for merely "a steady fuck"???

Somebody doesn't "get" women at all.

[redqueen]

103. I suspect they don't want to, either. n/t

[LostinVA]

109. Agreed n/t

[Bridget Burke]

146. I'll bet he gets very few women....

(Using multiple definitions of "get" here.)

[LostinVA]

108. My, my... your agenda is showing

Not that it was ever that hidden anyway.

[Fountain79]

28. She's not interested...

It's very hard to get out of the friend zone...almost impossible...sorry.

[HEyHEY]

34. These days she can go away.

I've got enough friends.

[WCGreen]

35. Got enough friends....

That's what I say....

And I would tell her that.....

Be an aquantance....

You know, acknowledge her when you see her out...

Then slowly loose touch with her...

[liberaltrucker]

36. Heard that PLENTY of times in my single days

But today, I'm fortunate enough to have a wife
who is also my best friend. Best of both worlds.
:)

[billyskank]

38. Depends

sometimes I'll want to be her friend, sometimes I'll want to be a million miles away. It all depends on the circumstances and my perception of her feelings, which may or may not be correct.

[Robeson]

39. I'm married. My wife has instructed me that I'm not supposed to be....

...attracted to other women. She constantly tells me: Repeat after me, you are not attracted to other women. Repeat after me, you are not attracted to other women. Repeat after.....;-)

[NewJeffCT]

40. Back when I was single...

I would always take the friendship - I wanted to be on good terms if they ever changed their mind, or maybe they would think of me & a single friend of theirs down the road.

[kiraboo]

44. That is good thinking!

[NewJeffCT]

58. It worked, somewhat

It kind of worked out - I met my ex-wife through a woman I knew casually (never considered dating her... but, woman knew I was a decent guy and the woman that would become my future ex-wife was single at the time. I guess I should have taken her warning that my ex was very high maintenance.)

And, same with my wife. Not long after my ex filed for divorce, I met an Asian woman who was just starting to go through the divorce process - only where I'd only been married a year and had no kids, she had been married for 10 years and had 2 kids. We hit it off well, but I also felt like I was taking advantage of her in such an emotional time for her, so I told her that I thought we should just be friends until her situation was better. So, she ended up liking me even more and set me up with some of her single Asian girlfriends, and I ended up making friends with another woman who eventually introduced me to my wife.

[JVS]

93. But did you actually form a friendship or was it a kind of friendly...

acquaintance?

I could see being on friendly terms (always say hello if you meet in public etc.), but doing stuff one does with friends (going places, hanging out etc.) seems a bit much.

[NewJeffCT]

213. generally friendly terms

but, i stayed good friends with a couple...

[wildhorses]

42. I know you asked for the male's opinion but....

I don't think you understand how the female mind works (and I am speaking only for myself but, I think I am a fairly typical average female)

you just fucked up...

Have you seen the movie "The 40 year old virgin"?

There is a reason they went on 20 dates before they had sex, to see if they were compatible OUT of bed. When a woman says she wants to be friends....she has just paid you a cvompliment. If, however you go on 20 dates and she still just wants to be friends then....count yourself as a friend and keep looking...

just my 2 pennies, throw them back in the wishing well if you don't want them:shrug:

[kiraboo]

46. I'm a female too!

And I agree with you EXCEPT I can't think of any romantic relationship in my life where there was not, at the very beginning, at least a spark of sexual attraction. In this case the spark is missing. Ergo, the relationship will never become romantic for me whether we have ten, twenty, or two thousand dates.

[wildhorses]

53. okay, I am thinking that the spark is there...but evidently in your

case it is not or his case...anyway I still say the more friends the better...you can never have too many firends, right?

[kiraboo]

56. Right, absolutely.

Lovers always seem to leave eventually. Friends stick around and help pick up the pieces.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

48. I think you've misunderstood the question.

How, exactly, does "Would you like to go on a date?" translate immediately into "Would you like to have sex?"

Seriously, if THOSE are the circumstances under which you approach every male, I don't think it's him that has the problem.

Friends = Friends. Friends =/= Dating.

I like to play it slow too - I have never had a random hookup in my life and prefer to wait as long as I can to jump into sex, but what you're talking about is something different altogether.

[wildhorses]

52. okay I took it the wrong way...

I think I was trying to say what newJeffCT said...but from a woman's view...forget I ever said anythig about sex...:blush:

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

49. Disappear.

I've tried the remain friends approach, because quite frankly, I was typically attracted to personality more and usually got to know someone before asking them out anyways. The results were not fun. Typically, you remain attracted to them while being friends, and then when they wind up finding a significant other, you just kind of sit on the sidelines wondering what might've been.

Now I play my cards much differently to a FAR better result. I don't get to know a woman without being under the pretexts of dating. Not only do I have a far better success rate, but I also don't have to deal with that previous anxiety. I'm a much happier man now.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

54. You wrote almost exactly what I was going to

So, in short -- ditto.

[JVS]

99. THIS IS THE RIGHT ANSWER!

You win the medal

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

149. Thank you! Thank you very much!

*takes a bow*

[mdmc]

50. she has friends

couldn't hurt to hang out... perhaps she will hook you up with a friend of hers....

[Bucky]

51. I would leave town but first I would lie about something to make her sorry

then I'd stay up all night in my car staring at her window while eating snickers bars. But that's just me.

[AngryAmish]

55. Never be friends

If you like her an she wants to be friends you will chase after her and humiliate yourself. Repeatedly.

Find another and avoid her. It is best that way.

[regularguy]

59. If you're absolutely crazy about her,

it might be tough to be "just friends", otherwise the more friends the better.

[giant_robot]

60. This is what I hear when a woman says, "Let's just be friends."

"I don't want this relationship to turn romantic, but I still want all the attention you're giving me."

Agree to be friends, but make it clear that your attention is going to be focused on greener pastures. If she still wants to be friends, that's great, but you might find her desire to be friends wanes if you're not doting on her anymore. Just my $0.02.

[Hugin]

62. Hear! Hear!

This is reality speaking!

:thumbsup:

[kiraboo]

84. I disagree about your perception of reality.

I enjoy the company of friends both male and female. But I've been told it's not possible for the male to be "just" friends. I don't expect anything special from a male vs. a female friend... not extra attention, not free drinks. But men have a perspective women do not and I can always learn something from them.

[giant_robot]

116. Yes, but if a friend is pursuing you as a romantic interest,

he or she is putting an extra effort into the relationship, whether you expect it or not. People put lots of effort into starting and maintaining intimate relationships, and the object of your affections *should* receive more attention, whether you're planning on initiating or just maintaining a relationship. If the person who is being pursued "just wants to be friends", then that person can't expect the same attention from the pursuer anymore. In fact, it would be unfair. If the pursuee truly wants to be friends then that person will understand that the pursuer needs to look elsewhere for the relationship he/she wants, and be supportive. However, if that person just enjoys having a love-sick puppy dog nipping at his/her heels the friendship will dry up as soon their former pursuer finds a new love interest.

[kiraboo]

133. Hmmm, Oversize Robot. I get what you're saying

and it all depends on what everybody wants/hopes to get out of the situation. In my case, I really need and appreciate friends, good friends. In his case, I don't know. I have had the strongest sense that he wants more and I jumped the gun (perhaps) and nixed it because I like him well enough as a person not to want to hurt him or lead him on. If he decides to drop out of my life, it will be my loss, truly. This feeling of mine; that I value him as a person... I think it's what many of the women are complaining about in this thread. We genuinely like some men, but aren't able to love them. It's distressing to realize that they are willing to leave us in the dust because of this.

[giant_robot]

147. I see where you're coming from now..

...(I didn't know you were a female when I first replied!) Obviously, we men don't like to be told "let's just be friends." From my perspective as a man, at least, I can say that I treat a prospective love interest differently that I treat other female friends, and if I'm rebuffed by the prospective love interest a friendship isn't out of the question, but she shouldn't expect the same effort I was making when trying to spark a romance. Anyway, it sounds like you really value this person as a friend, and I hope he doesn't chose to write you out of his life. Good luck! ;)

[redqueen]

140. Don't most people grow out of

the whole 'love sick puppy dog' idiocy... once they get out of high school?

[LostinVA]

114. Lots of guys on here who so don't understand women...

I am one. I date them. And, gay ones think and act the same as straight ones.

[swag]

61. I'd try to make better friends with her and get over my silly crush.

I'm glad I'm out of the fight.

[Hugin]

63. .

:P

[GirlinContempt]

64. !

:loveya:

[redqueen]

118. Write books...

mentor young males...

please... please please please

somehow, share that wisdom

[FarLeftRage]

65. I have never been in that situation...

So, I'm not qualified to give an answer.

The women that I have met, either really like me or they don't care at all.

If I were to encounter this scenario, I'd be honest enough to be her friend.

[One_Life_To_Give]

66. Depends, Am I looking for a relationship

If I believe her, then fine. But if I am looking for a relationship. Then there is not much point in wasting time with her.

[redqueen]

67. Goddess, how these threads depress me.

Thanks guys! (You know who you are)

We women never tire of being told our only value to you is for sex.

Thanks again!

Can't be reinforced too often, I say!

Hear that young ladies? If you don't want to fuck them, they don't want to know you!

KEEP THIS IN MIND AT ALL TIMES!

:banghead:

We need a smiley holding a gun up to its own head, I swear to Goddess we do!

[Hugin]

68. See Post #60...

Keep in mind this works both ways... and only if the person in question is
seeking a "Romantic Relationship".

Forming a close friendship with someone will often keep away potential "Romantic
Interests".

That's all I'm saying.

[redqueen]

74. Yeah yeah yeah. n/t

[LostinVA]

119. Yeah, but check out post #30

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

153. So the comments of one asshole suddenly trump an entire gender?

Get real.

[jpgray]

72. For some people, sex really is their only value

Everyone's met the personality black hole with the fantastic body--the type isn't limited to one gender. And while neither a man nor a woman would be interested in just "friendship" with such a person, both genders are interested in sleeping with such a person.

[redqueen]

75. So?

So what? You're bothering to point out the excpetion so you can prove the rule?

Thanks!

[jpgray]

76. There is no "rule" that men are only interested in women for sex

But if all a guy values in a girl is her sexual qualities, if she wants to be friends of course the guy isn't going to be particularly interested. So if a guy rejects a girl's wish to "just be friends," it isn't that the guy is only interested in sex, it's that sex was all the guy found interesting about the girl. :) If he found something else there of value, obviously he would be more inclined to remain in contact. We all have our likes and dislikes--I would never pick my guy friends based on what women find sexually attractive, and I certainly wouldn't pick my female friends based on what I find sexually attractive.

[redqueen]

96. Sorry...

it just won't wash with me.

If you're only talking to someone because you're sexually attracted to them, then do you think there might be any chance that they might suspect that? That it might be considered a sore spot for them?

This primitive behavior must stop.

[jpgray]

110. I think it trails off as people get older

But early on sexual attraction has a way of confusing people into thinking that there is more there, and when the sex part is gone, typically the belief that there is anything else evaporates with it.

[redqueen]

113. Strangely, I've never had any difficulty

separating the two. Not within myself, no... never. I've had trouble detecing when OTHERS were either interested only sexually or in me AS A FUCKING PERSON... but never within myself... ever.

[jpgray]

121. Oh yeah--it's usually perfectly obvious to the recipient

But I think the inclination to think "My sexual desire is not coupled with the purest platonic interest, therefore I must not have sex with this person" wasn't hot for natural selection, some time in our dim past. :P

[redqueen]

126. Wouldn't be such a big deal if men were honest about it...

and women too, about the 'friends' thing... if fewer women used it as a cop out so they didn't have to say 'i have no interest in you whatsoever'... and fewer men acted as if they were actually interested in women they only wanted to fuck... it seems so simple...

[AngryAmish]

144. Thanks - us guys just love to be called primative

Oh, please slip in something about testosterone poisoning too!

[redqueen]

148. Huh? I said the *behavior* was primitive.

And if you notice, I didn't say it was only the males that were being primitive, since as has been pointed out, although it may be a rarer occurrence, females engaege in such ape-like behavior as well.

Nice try at being all hurt and offended though!

[crispini]

83. Uh, NO.

"The personality black hole with the fantastic body" ??! I am SO not interested in sleeping with that person. AT ALL. And I disagree with your contention that BOTH genders ARE interested in sleeping with such a person. That's bushwah. Most chicks aren't, I would say. (Maybe a few are, but most aren't.)

[jpgray]

89. Wow--you are by -far- the exception

In college at least, if you are supremely attractive and thoroughly uninteresting otherwise, you will have no shortage of willing partners. That goes for either gender. It's no evil scheme or sexist social programming that both genders behave this way, it's just the way it is (and probably has always been).

[redqueen]

100. It's primitive, stupid behavior. n/t

[jpgray]

101. No doubt, but we're in many ways a primitive, stupid animal

:patriot:

[redqueen]

104. Well let's celebrate that! Let's defend it!

It's cool!

All the 'in crowd' are doing it!

:puke:

[RandomKoolzip]

191. NOT acknowledging it is acting like another kind of animal:

an ostrich.

We're all still animals, despite our intelligence. Evolution moves slowly. It'd be nice if we could all jettison our baser instincts, but it ain't gonna happen before the next World Series, so it's best to just accept it.

[redqueen]

193. I acknowledge it...

But I do not accept it. We all have instincts. But we *choose* whether or not to act on them. Sorry... I cannot just accept that people choose to act like animals. I can acknowledge that it happens, but I don't just say 'oh well, that's life'. Yes, I have the audacity to expect people to eventually learn.

Why not just 'accept' that there are bullies at school? Some people believe we should. I do not. That's just another example of a baser instinct, that up until lately has been accepted as something that we can't expect to change. Maybe it's foolish of me to expect more. I won't stop doing it, though. I may be very disappointed... but maybe I won't.

[crispini]

111. Ah. I'm not in college anymore.

And I have long since realized that I get awfully attached to people whom I sleep with, so I now choose to forego that activity until I'm ready to be attached to them.

[miss_american_pie]

120. Yeah, somehow this thread has made me happy to be older

:hi:

[redqueen]

128. Wish I could say the same.

I have two daughters.

[miss_american_pie]

131. I have two sons

It's a different kind of fear, but it's there.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

155. I'm agreeing with JPGray - you are the exception

I know more women who base their own personal value on how hot a guy they can fuck than I do women who don't. Sorry. And all of the women I speak of are college educated as well.

[crispini]

174. How old are you?

Just curious. I'm starting to wonder if this is age-related.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

176. 27.

[crispini]

180. Huh, you'd think people would start getting over the "shallow" by then.

Maybe you have to hit 30 first. I dunno. All I know is that if he's pretty on the outside but ugly on the inside, he ain't worth it.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

185. That's how I feel about women too.

I gave up on a pro-cheerleader (!) because she was a dumbass. By far the hottest woman I've ever dated, and I just couldn't bring myself to do it.

Maybe it is an age thing. I've always been accused of being too old for my age. :shrug:

[kiraboo]

86. I'm hearing it, and it doesn't sound any better when you're

no longer "young", believe me.

[redqueen]

102. Haha... yes, well we old crones, we already know, don't we?

But I remember a time when I was young, and idealistic.

I fought so hard against becoming cynical... against believing what's so obviously the truth, in the OVERWHELMING majority of cases.

*sigh*

[kiraboo]

106. I really try to view the differences between the sexes as simply

that - differences - without making judgement. But IT AIN'T EASY!

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

152. Woah, time out there!

You're getting ENTIRELY the wrong message here.

If I have feelings for a woman and then she goes on to date someone else, why, exactly, would I want to sit around and have my feelings trampled? Do you have any idea whatsoever how much fun it is to have feelings for someone that won't stop prattling on about how great their new boyfriend is? Sorry, I've been there, I've done that. I'm not doing it again. And it has NOTHING to do with sex.

The problem here is with you - when you hear dating, you hear "let's fuck". How, exactly, do you make THAT leap and apply it to each and every male? Sounds like a personal problem to me.

[redqueen]

161. Did I say *ALL* guys?

It pays to read carefullly.

No, I did not convey the idea that I thought all men were like this. However, it's clear that with most guys, that is the case. They are interested in getting to know you if sex is eventually possible... but if it's not... then they'd rather not know you. I don't accept that hurt feelings stuff. That silliness should be got over with by the time you're out of high school, IMO. I would think that at least by the time people are old enough to be out of college, that they'd have realized that not everyone they like is going to like them, and vice versa... and deal with it accordingly. Yes, anyone can continue to pine and lust and wish... that's their choice, though.

I've done this too. Been friends with someone who didn't want to date me when we first met and I approached them... and aside from some initial feelings of mild discomfort when I saw them with dates now and then (not even every time I saw them with dates)... there was no lasting hurt from it.

So no, Vash, the problem here is not with me. When I hear dating, I do not hear "let's fuck", but when I am told that a man, if he can't be a love interest, has no interest at all... that sends a pretty clear message. Vulgarity aside, it is what it is.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

175. That's total bullshit.

Your holier than thou maturity rant is really just a cop-out, quite frankly. Of what value is it whatsoever to expose yourself to any feelings of discomfort or hurt, no matter how mild they may be, for someone that you hardly know in the first place? What, exactly, is the clear message in that? To me, that clear message is that I value not being a masochist.

Again, this comes down to your preconceived notions of what dating is. Why is it that YOU bring up the sex aspect? Why is it that you think that's the only reason someone wouldn't want to be friends if they can't date? Hell, why do you attach sex so tightly to dating in the first place? People have random sex all the time and that's not dating. Granted, it's a PART of dating, but it's comparatively a rather small one. There's a HUGE difference between friends and lovers, even without sex. Again, why is that the only difference YOU see? I've had female friends, best friends even, and those relationships still paled in comparison to the ones I had with lovers.

[redqueen]

178. Sex is a small part of dating?

Is this just about dating? I didn't think so... I thought it was more about relationships. Is sex a small part of a relationship?

What else do you expect from a romantic relationship that you don't get from a friendship?

Cause honestly... I don't see that much difference between friends and lovers aside from the sex. So yeah, that's why that's the biggest difference IMO. Please tell me... what are the other huge differences that you perceive?

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

181. Wow... I'm just absolutely baffled by this one.

You honestly don't see any differences? You don't see a deeper connection to a lover than you do a friend? You don't spend more time with a lover? Even without sex, you don't do anything different with a lover than you would with a friend? The affection factor alone changes things immeasurably.

Christ, I don't even know where to start with this one - it's like apples and oranges to me. I don't even know what else to say.

[redqueen]

182. Yeah, we just don't have the same perspective at all.

I mean yeah, I'm more affectionate, but that's part of the sex part to me. I don't separate physical affection with a lover from the sex, because IMO, they're kind of the same thing.

More time? Eh, not really. I'm not too clingy with lovers and I like hanging out with friends a lot. And no, I pretty much do the same things... go see movies, go out to eat, go to museums, etc. etc. etc. Here again, the only thing I don't do with friends that I do with lovers are things that are sexual in nature.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

184. See, physical affection goes FAR beyond sex for me.

Just being playful with each other, holding hands, etc... I certainly don't do any of that with a friend of either gender. And I totally do different activities with lovers than I would with friends (definite "date" type stuff).

I just think we're way different in that regard. :shrug:

[skygazer]

71. Wow. Just wow.

:wow:

This is the first thread I opened this morning and I'm just sitting here with my jaw dropped right down on my knees. It's quite uncomfortable.

I cannot believe that no man has ever met a woman that he wanted to just be friends with. Because obviously, you never have if you think that a woman saying "I just want to be friends" always means "fuck off and die."

Actually, when women want to say "fuck off and die", they usually do. Quite often, "I just want to be friends" means "I like you, I think you're a nice person and fun to hang around with but I'm not interested in you romantically."

Women have this odd capability to actually be friends with men without sex. I realize that's alien to so many of you but it can be quite nice. And perhaps, just perhaps, if some of you lost this idea that women are only to be desired as someone to fuck, you'd find that out.

:nuke:


*not wholly directed to the OP, by the way, but to an astonishing number of responders*

[jpgray]

79. I have plenty of female friends

But only one or two started off as a romantic interest--it seems my platonic tastes and my sexual tastes rarely intersect to the point where I'd want to commit to a true friendship.

[kiraboo]

88. Being both the OP and female, I agree with you wholeheartedly.

I guess the male of the species is very self-sufficient, although I tend to think that many of these responses are defensive i.e. the request for friendship is seen as the worst possible rejection and therefore the woman in question is a source of pain rather than anything else.

[jpgray]

91. I just don't see why romantic attraction should always lead to friendship

In my experience it seldom leads to friendship.

[kiraboo]

92. Hmmm. I think if romantic attraction doesn't involve friendship

the romance is doomed. But I get your point.

[skygazer]

94. What is romantic attraction if NOT friendship?

What is it you find attractive about women? For me, what i find attractive about men are the same things I find desirable in a friend PLUS a sexual attraction. But it's certainly not ONLY a sexual attraction - if that were the case, none of my relationships would last very long. Sexual attraction only goes so far. However, if I also enjoy their sense of humor, if we have hobbies and activities in common, if we share common goals, if we share values - all that makes the sexual attraction last longer because it deepens romance.

If your romantic attractions seldom lead to friendship, what are you basing them on?

[jpgray]

105. Sexual attraction

And sexual attraction has a way of deluding you into thinking that there are other valuable qualities there for you, but when there really aren't it's tough to sustain anything. I think that as people get older they have a better sense of themselves and what they really are looking for, but early on sex sells. I think the worst possible reason for a guy to try and be "friends" is because he's panicked that his attraction toward a girl was completely shallow and sexual.

[skygazer]

130. That doesn't answer the question

By "sexual attraction", you mean simply the desire to fuck? What are you, 14? Because I don't buy this whole, "when you're young, it's like this" crap. I may be an old bag, but I remember being young, too, and though I certainly checked out all the hot guys, if they were jerks beneath the pretty hair and eyes, I wasn't interested. Period. And I refuse to believe that most guys under the age of... what? What constitutes young? 30? 25? 20? I refuse to believe that most of them are with their wives and girlfriends solely because of sex.

I agree that the worst reason for a guy to try to be friends with a woman is because he's panicked that his attraction was completely shallow and sexual. Perhaps if he was LESS shallow and sexual, his attraction would be based on more than that and he'd be able to be friends with her. :nuke:

[redqueen]

107. Oh is this your first, then?

This subject seems to come up from time to time around here.

Astonishing number? Oh, how I wish I could agree.

[skygazer]

134. That was my vain attempt at politeness

Yeah, I've seen 'em many times. I must have been foggy headed when I clicked into it this morning. :banghead:

And why I continue to try, I can't imagine....

[redqueen]

137. Your sig is SO appropriate.

*sigh*

:hug:

[no name no slogan]

73. I would agree to be friends...

if SHE agreed to introduce me to some of HER single straight female friends. At the same time, I'd introduce her to some of my single straight male friends. Nothing wrong with widening the circle of friends, IMHO-- and who knows, maybe you'll both get lucky and meet somebody.

[kiraboo]

90. Okay, where do you live?

;)

[JVS]

82. I have no desire to be her friend.

It's just putting yourself near something you can't have.

If I want to be friends with someone, I'd form a friendship. I do not view friendship as a runner-up crown in the "who gets to have sex/ a deep relationship with me" pageant

[redqueen]

112. who gets to have sex/ a deep relationship with me" pageant

:cry:

I give up.

[JVS]

115. Good! Give up. I don't understand how the OP's question was somehow...

an invitation for you to lecture everyone who answered her about how they should or shouldn't feel.

[redqueen]

122. Lecture?

Sorry if I shared my opinion in a way which was insulting to you somehow... I have not typed paragraphs on the subject, so I don't see how the 'lecture' label fits... but... whatever.

Your post about the way you view women is insulting. VERY insulting.

[JVS]

135. I'm sorry, I used lecture as a euphemism for "criticize/ complain"

please forgive my inaccuracy

[redqueen]

139. Didn't know criticism was against the rules.

Kinda had the wacky idea it was part of discussion, especially when it's constructive criticism.

[kwassa]

117. sort of the Mr. Congeniality prize ?????

and I agree with you.

[JVS]

123. Pretty much. Gaining a friendship in that manner is shameful

Real friendship should be respected more than allowing oneself to take it as a cheap second place item. To accept such friendship is an insult to your real friends.

As the Prussian king said when being offered the leadership of a united Germany by an electoral assembly in 1848 ""I cannot pick up a crown from the gutter"

[skygazer]

138. "In that manner"?

:wtf:

How is that shameful? Gaining a friendship because you're not interested in someone romantically but like them as a person is shameful?

How does a relationship start if not with friendship? I don't understand this automatic separation of friends and potential fucks. And I don't see how by any strectch of the imagination you could call friendship with a person you supposedly care about as a "cheap second place item." Why is friendship so far down the list of relationships as to be considered a booby prize?

I don't see this logic at all.

[redqueen]

150. I didn't get that logic either...

interested in seeing the answer. Good questions.

[JVS]

154. "In that manner" refers to a guy getting friends in that manner.

Friendship is something to be valued. Friendship that is born of rejection is tainted. It's a friendship with a big asterisk next to it that says "friend because you're not good enough to be the boyfriend"

If people want to build friendships that are not based on attraction, that's fine and not a bit shameful. But once one makes the attempt at a physical relationship there is no going back.

[skygazer]

158. Why do you insist upon seeing it as "born in rejection" though?

When someone honestly likes you (and I'm excluding those occasions when the phrase is used emptily), why would you consider their wanting to be your friend a rejection? Why isn't being someone's friend as valuable as being someone's boyfriend?

I just don't understand why the line has to be drawn like this. I grant you your right to see it however you want or to act upon it as you like - I just don't understand.

It makes me, as a female, feel that I'm not valuable to a man as a friend if I'm not interested in them as a romantic partner. And I don't understand why. Do I not have qualities that attracted that man that would be valuable in a friend? Or are men only attracted to the sexual and not the inner person?

[JVS]

165. Because it's a rejection of my goals for the relationship.

The thing is that when you hear the "Let's just be friends" line while it doesn't mean "fuck off" it does mean "No, I think your idea about being more than just friends isn't gonna pan out". I must be honest with myself and realize that I can't simply wave a wand and get rid of my desires. This relationship doesn't hold the possibility of being fulfilling anymore to me and I want out.


Think of it as similar to a long time relationship where the guy has decided not to commit and says "I don't know if we should rush into marriage". At this point one might as well just give up.

As far as just wanting to be friends with a woman, it's possible. The thing is that it has to be established early on exactly what the nature of the relationship is. Continued interaction without indications that you are unavailable for the more than friends relationship are taken by would be suitors as a sign to proceed.

If you want to know if a man is really interested in just being your friend, mention a boyfriend sometime early in the relationship (even if you don't have one). This will cool the interest of all but the most dedicated potential suitors, but leave behind those who seek to be "just friends"

[skygazer]

170. So what you're saying is that you go into relationships in one of two ways

You're either aiming to date or you're only interested in being friends. This would preclude the possibility of being friends with someone and having it turn into a romantic affair and it would also preclude the possibility that you might find that the person you're attracted to is more suitable as a friend than a lover. And you don't find being friends fulfilling. How complimentary.

This seems to severely limit the people you'd ask out. I simply can't see how you can automatically be attracted to someone without having some form of friendship first. But even if you are initially attracted to them, haven't you ever found someone you liked as a friend but discovered that you didn't in fact find them suitable for romance? Doesn't that ever happen to guys like it does for women?

I've had many friendships with guys that never came remotely close to anyone indicating they wanted to go out. Without "establishing early on exactly what the nature of the relationship is." And without being currently involved with anyone. I don't know, maybe the guys I've met are more mature or maybe they hide their real agenda very well. But this whole conversation depresses me.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

179. Actually, it doesn't limit at all.

It's actually been extremely successful for me. It seems that once you get categorized by a woman as "friend", there's no going back.

In answer to this queston: Doesn't that ever happen to guys like it does for women?

It does happen - FAR more often for men than it does for women. Which is exactly why guys like me and JVS have come to the conclusions that we have - it just doesn't work out. Life has been far easier for me since I've stopped trying to turn friends into lovers and then trying to remain friends afterwards. FAR, FAR easier and happier.

[JVS]

186. Vash, you understand everything

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

187. Of course I do

I might add, that's one of my favorite Err lines. I also happen to like Ignigniknoct's classic:

"Prepare for a pride-obliterating bitch slap!"

[skygazer]

192. Well, this is where I get confused

You say that "once you get categorized by a woman as "friend", there's no going back." Why do you need to go back? Why can't you accept being friends and leave it at that? Why is it hard to be friends with someone you wanted to date? I guess that's what I don't get. Because, as I've said elsewhere, for me the things I find attractive in a date are the same things I find attractive in a friend only without the whole sex thing. And I can shrug and accept that they're not into that. I'm just not figuring out why so many men can't.

And when I asked "doesn't that happen to men?" what I meant was, don't you ever date someone only to find that you don't really want to date them but you enjoy their company enough to remain friends? I didn't mean start as friends - I meant start as a potential date but then decide that's not going to work but there are still things you like about the person.

And honestly, I'm not trying to be argumentative here. I'm just trying to understand. :hi:

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

195. Let me explain myself further then.

Let's say I just met you through a friend at a social event, chatted a while, etc. And then say I met you again and we exchanged numbers. If I don't make it clear what my intentions are (that I want to date you) by, say, the second time we go out, there is extremely little chance that I would ever get you to see me as more than a friend.

And no... what you said doesn't happen. If I could be friends with someone, I could be lovers with them if physical attraction is involved. I am very discerning with my friends - I do not just count drinking pals as friends. Those are distant acquaintances. So no, I don't see myself ever downgrading someone to just friends.

[skygazer]

196. I guess I just look at things differently

If I met you at a social event and chatted a while, and if I then met you somewhere else and we exchanged numbers and if you did not make it clear what your intentions were by the second time we went out, for me I could certainly decide even a year down the road that, hey! I really like Vash. We ought to go out romantically. Because that's how it often works for me. That's how it worked with my first husband. That's how it worked with another long-term boyfriend. And that's how it worked with my present SO. We met, we enjoyed each other's company, we became friends (SO was married when I met him so there was no thought of anything besides friends) and eventually we found there was something more.

"If I could be friends with someone, I could be lovers with them if physical attraction is involved." Well, this makes sense but don't you ever find that someone who is nice and cool and fun to be with and who is physically attractive has attributes that just don't work for you as a lover? Things that don't show up initially? Because not everything shows up initially - people are on their best behavior and it may be that you find things that make them unsuitable for a lover but okay for a friend. Or at least, it happens with me.

I don't know - I just don't understand the absoluteness of refusing to entertain the idea of remaining friends. Thanks for the explanation though - what you said makes a certain amount of sense to me. It's just not how I see things. :hi:

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

211. Hey, everyone sees things differently.

Honestly, I really couldn't ever see myself downgrading someone to just friends after initially wanting more. I hold the same basic rules of thumb for lovers that I do for friends - if I feel I couldn't trust them or that I couldn't really hold a rapport with them, I don't find it worthwhile to hold that person close to me.

Then again, I'm a fairly closed person when it comes to that. I don't want a large group of friends - just a small group of people that I could trust with absolutely anything. I'm a very generous, typical nice guy, and knowing that it's very important to me to only keep people around that would not abuse that. The moment I feel like I'm taken for granted or anything else, I walk away. Simple as that. I refuse to be a pushover.

But when it comes down to it, different strokes for different folks! :hi: I still hate seeing the asinine jump to conclusions that all men want is sex if they won't be friends with someone that bolted. That just doesn't make sense at all.

[redqueen]

163. "not good enough to be the boyfriend"

Good enough? What does that mean? There can be fantastic people, wonderful people, that I have absolutely no romantic interest in at all.

Just because a woman doesn't want a man as a romantic partner does not mean the man is not "good enough" for her... it could just mean that the chemistry isn't right... or that they're not her type physically... or that she's interested in someone else at the time...

*sigh*

[JVS]

168. All those reasons are ways in which the suitor has been judged inadequate

" it could just mean that the chemistry isn't right... or that they're not her type physically... or that she's interested in someone else at the time..."

Yeah, you'd be fine as long as you "had the right chemistry" (i.e were more charming) or "were her type physically" (i.e looked better to her ) or weren't less intereting than the someone whom she is interested in at the time.

It means you lose.

[redqueen]

171. Chemistry isn't charm, dear JVS.

It is SO not. The only person who really got me in the chemistry way is so not charming. In fact, he's a bit of an ass.

And it's not about looks... perhaps the guy just isn't tall, and she likes tall men... that doesn't mean he's unattractive, he's just not her type. Does that really not make sense? And if I'm interested in someone already... well then it's pretty silly to expect another person to just walk up and sweep me off my feet. That's fantasy... fairy stories... doesn't happen in real life (well, so infrequently as to be considered nearly mythical, anyway).

[JVS]

199. No matter how you cut it, there is a process of evaluation and rejection.

If someone rejects me, I don't want to be friends with them. I wouldn't get any pleasure out of continuing the relationship. If they don't like that, they can go to hell.

[jpgray]

124. Yes--it can be a bad, dishonest situation all around

There were girls in my high school who collected guys like pets--one to sell the candy for the swim team, one to help with physics homework, etc. All the poor guys being hopelessly in love, and all never getting any love in return.

:patriot:

[JVS]

129. I think that it is awful that people expect you to want to be friends

And won't understand it if you don't want that to happen to you.

[redqueen]

151. I think the key words here are *high school*. n/t

[RandomKoolzip]

127. I gots me plenty of female friends. In fact, I have more

female friends than male friends. I find women much easier to be friends with than men.

I'm married, but when I wasn't, rejection from a woman hurt more than getting kicked in the balls while getting a molar drilled. The responses from men on this thread that may seem callous or borderline sexist is because the great mass of men here have been put through the emotional meat-grinder of rejection multiple times and have become cynical because of it. You can say that sucks, you can make judgement calls about said men, but the fact is that this cynicism is borne of hurt received from women. So men have adapted by taking on what they see as emotional "survival strategies," i.e. being more careful and vigilant about rejection, becoming hardened in romantic matters, giving off flippant vibes, etc. in order to shield themselves from the hurt and pain they feel when a woman decimates their self-esteem.

When a guy gets rejected, to him it's like falling off a hundred-story building; When a guy gets rejected, and the woman says "let's be friends!", to him it's like falling off a hundred-story building onto a futon mattress: like, thanks for the gesture, but it really doesn't cushion the blow.

Having said all that, I need to explain that when I wasn't married, I definitely approached women I wanted to be friends with differently than women I had a romantic interest in. I often found that the female friends occasionally became more than friends, because they got to see more of what I was really like, while the women I apprached as romantic interests rarely reciprocated the interest because I felt I had to debase myself in front of them to win their affection and that's not attractive. I think it's more natural to let a romantic situation happen from organic circumstances, ie. become friends first, then let the relationship evolve, than to go out and "pick up" members of the opposite sex.

[redqueen]

132. Women get rejected too...

I guess they should all get hard and nasty and flippant, too.

Yeah, that'd be really productive.

Why do so many men persist in thinking they're the only ones asking anyone out anymore?

We're way past the 1950's.

[RandomKoolzip]

142. Well, that's rarer.

Traditionally, it's been guys getting rejected by women. And I'm not denying that the opposite happens, but most guys would regard a woman asking THEM out as a gift from God himself, and most guys I know have never had this happen to them (I've asked).

And yes, rejection hurts women as well as men. It sucks for everybody. I'm just speaking from my own experience; I also think most guys would benefit from actually being genuine friends with women.

It can be argued that men becoming hardened to such matters is a good thing, because it forces them to deal with romantic situations in a far more pragmatic and realistic way than if they had never had had their illusions shattered. Both sexes could do with a heavier dose of realism when swimming in realtionship-realted waters, IMO. When men expect women to act like porn stars and and women expect men to act like soap opera stars or the schmucks in romance novels, we've got a real serious problem.

[redqueen]

143. Excellent points.

A lot more honesty would help from all sides, too, that's for sure.

I do think that 'traditionally' thing is really more a thing of the past, though. I think that now, women do the approaching as often as men do.

[jpgray]

141. I also have more female friends than male friends, for what it's worth--nt

[GirlinContempt]

207. Have I mentioned recently how much I

:loveya:?

[dysfunctional press]

156. if a guy has a romantic interest in a woman, he can't be "just friends"..

he can SAY that he will- but it's a lie...he just wants to keep the door open and hopes to eventually wear her down and win her over.

men can EASILY make the switch from friend to lover, on an emotional level, but not so easily the other way around. and for women, it seems to be exactly the opposite- they can't go from friend to lover, but are more able to go from lover to friend.

[skygazer]

159. I can go from friend to lover

And have done so with all of my long-term relationships. All began as platonic friendships that eventually blossomed into attraction and then love. I prefer relationships that begin that way - I know they're based on more than simple sexual attraction.

[dysfunctional press]

160. for most women, it seems to be just the opposite.

and ironically, my wife was the first woman i dated who i din't have a friend and/or work relationship with beforehand.

[skygazer]

164. Wait a minute

You just said your wife was the first woman you dated that you DIDN'T have a friendship with first, yet you feel most women can't go from friends to lovers?

What am I missing here? Weren't those other women able to do it?

[dysfunctional press]

167. that's why i said that it was ironic.

but for me, not her- she didn't go from friends to lover with me- we had sex on our first date.

[supernova]

166. That's what I would prefer

to have happen. But guys just seem to want me to respond "immediately."

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

157. Eh, I can't really answer that. Happily married for a long time.

But I can say that if I need to get my pipes cleaned, and I ask a plumber if he's interesed, and he says "no, but I'd like to re-wire your ceiling fan," I'd say no thanks.

[supernova]

162. Word to the wise MAN

I feel the sentence "Let's be friends." is being misused. Not just here on DU, but elsewhere in the man/woman debate.

Here's my deal:

If *I* say I want to be "friends," it can mean a couple of things:

1) We've only just met and I haven't decided if I'm attracted to you or not. IOW, Give me some time to get to know you, know that you're a nice, reliable well-intentioned guy. That is probably true (as with most of you wonderful guys here in the Lounge), but my egregious history has proven to me that I need to be cautious. Give me time to learn that I can trust my first impression about you.

2) We've know each other for a long time and I'm not interested, for a whole host of reasons, none of which mean that you're a bad person or that I wouldn't be happy for you to find someone else.

Sorry, but I really had to get that off my chest.

Carry on.

[Deep13]

172. She does not want to be friends. She is just trying not to be ...

...confrontational.

[HEyHEY]

177. yep, it's a hollow suggestion

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

183. EXACTLY!

[Ron Mexico]

188. Before I was married, the answer was "disappear." Such a woman

usually wanted me around to listen to her problems, beat someone up, walk her to her car after work or wanted to have someone to borrow money from. Nowadays, of course, the question is non-applicable.

[skygazer]

198. I find these answers so heartbreakingly sad

I really do. Is that REALLY what happens or is it a perception of what happens? I've had so many good friends who were guys - several of them were guys who did want to go out but who I wasn't interested in that way. It makes me feel very blue to think that they may look upon a friendship I value as a solid and wonderful thing as just me wanting someone to "listen to her problems, beat someone up, walk her to her car after work or {wanted} to have someone to borrow money from." Or that they're only my friends because they're still hoping to date me someday.

I hope that's NOT the way they look at it but I find it very gloomy that so many men in this thread think that's what it always means. :cry:

[redqueen]

200. Agreed on all points.

Again, *sigh*

[WritingIsMyReligion]

201. Man-in-the-sky forbid you should listen to her problems.

:eyes:

[Hardrada]

189. I ask her if she'll still vote for me.

[ContraBass Black]

194. I hope that I disappear for a while.

And then we become friends.

[Guy Fawkes]

197. It depends...

will she still give me an "A" for the semester? :evilgrin:

[Ekirh]

202. Honestly I don't know . .

Everyone I've ever been interested in (With the exception of one) I was already friends with. My first (and only "sigh" girlfriend) I was friends with for months before we dated. . . broke up . . remained friends. . . and now I'm her finacee's best man for their wedding . . . ahhh life.


So I would like to say I would say "okay we'll just be friends" but I honestly don't know how I would react. . . just being honest.


On a side note . . reading this whole thread gave me a headache . . . but just a small one.

[Nikia]

203. Being a woman, I am ticked off if a guy stops being my friend

When I remind him that I am married and not interested in having an affair, just friendship, or if he stops talking to me when he finds someone to date. In my present case, I be sure to tell them I am married. For some reason, there are men who think that doesn't mean that I won't want to have an affair in the future. I mean, I assumed the whole time that they were talking to me or even hanging out with me because they wanted my friendship, but in some cases that turned out not to be the case. In some cases, I was really hurt.
Luckily, I do still have a couple of male friends who are really comfortable being friends, not just trying to get me into bed or hoping that I'll leave my husband for them.
When I was single and if I would ever be single again, realized that there were some guys that I wouldn't want to have a romantic realtionship with. Although I know that some people are alright having "friends with benefits", for me I know that does not work and actually inferior to real friendship. Really, I think that there would be fewer divorces and break ups of other long term relationships if people were honest about what they could live with in a partner or not. There are some characteristics that I tolerate or may even like in a friend but dislike in a partner who I would live with and be responsible for to some extent as one is in marriage. I think that telling someone that one is interested in remaining friends rather than even attempting to have a physical/romantic relationship with someone who they aren't attracted to in that way or who has characteristics which they couldn't live with is doing their relationship and both people's lives a favor.

[Frank Cannon]

205. Be within reach, but just out of her grasp

In other words, stay friends but date others visibly and enthusiastically. Let her see what a great time you're having. Pretend you're George Clooney, even if you don't look like him.

If there's anything really there, that will set things on fire faster than anything.

[JVS]

206. Is that really being friends? It seems more like living well to spite...

a foe.

[Frank Cannon]

208. There is nothing spiteful about it

A friend doesn't have to put his/her life on mopey hold waiting for the other friend to "come around".

And it's just a sad fact of life that the vast majority of us don't know what we have until we lose it, or until we are afraid of losing it.

The technique I described works, period. One's romantic stock multiplies ENORMOUSLY when others see one dating and having a good time.

[treestar]

209. What is wrong with friends of the opposite sex?

They can help you and give you advice. They can go out with you and help you meet people. There is this list of strategies for meeting people I saw once that included going out with a friend of the opposite sex. It looked like a pretty good idea.

Not being attracted to you is not a sin. You'd hate it if a woman you were not attracted to tried to make you feel guilty for it and acted entitled.

[RandomKoolzip]

210. There's nothing wrong with it at all!

What guys have a problem with is this: getting rejected. If you're infatuated with a woman, and she rejects you, but then says, "let's be friends," it's never going to work, because you'll still be attracted to her. How good of a listener can you be when she's telling you about her boyfriend and all you can think is "jeez, that should be me she's talking about...."? A friendship borne of such circumstances can only mean emotional pain for the male half of the equation, so most of us tend to avoid it.


I have lots more female friends than male friends. With guy friends there's always an element of competition I'm uncomfortable with. But with women....I start bands with my female friends, we do karaoke together, I go shopping with them, they make me laugh, I'm an ear and a shoulder and I relish the company. I love being in the company of women.

But if I have a romantic interest in a woman, and she only wants friendship from the deal, then I will not accept an offer of "friendship," because it means emotional pain on my part due to the rejection. It's not as if I can suddenly shut off desires like the turning off of a faucet.

And I definitely can seperate the women I want to be friends with from the women I want to be in a relationship with. Contrary to what some women believe, lotsa guys genuinely want female friends, and don't simply look at all women as a "set of orifices," as another DU put it. The women I'm friends with, I like to stay friends with. However, if a relationship blossoms from a friendship (which has happened to me in the past), then that's cool too. But if I pursue a woman with the interest of a romantic relationship, and she turns me down, I will tend to avoid her in the future. Sorry!

[long_green]

212. kill her. kill her now.

seriously? If the woman is a friend already, be her friend. If she is someone you barely know and she's tells you this, she's trying to get rid of you...so the answer is you (the guy) disappears (if you're smart).