For all you prospective Dr Ruths out there...

[thom1102]

Mods, please don't lock. This is more of a relationship help thread, rather than a sex thread.

Okay, so I love this guy. If we weren't two guys, we'd be married already, and we essentially act like we are married. We own a house together, and plan our lives around each other, and it is all so very Donna Reed. But here is the problem:

I am much more sexual than he. I am much more experienced than he, and I am, for the most part, much more in touch with myself and my emotions than he is. I like sex much more frequently than he does, and he never likes to initiate intimate contact between us. Usually, what happens is, I just stop trying and wait for him to come to me, he doesn't, I drop hints about it (not subtle ones, either), he pays lip service but ultimately doesn't do anything, I get mad and give him the silent treatment, he pretends not to notice until finally we talk about it. I have told him on numerous occasions how I feel, and he has acknowledged that the problem is with him. I have encouraged him to talk to me, or get counselling to work out his issues, he says he is working on it. I tell him we should do couples counselling, so that we can work out these issues together, he says it isn't necessary. I encourage him to keep working on the issues, and tell him that this pattern isn't working for me that if he can't make progress on these issues on his own, than he needs to find some help. Then we usually have great sex for a few weeks, and the cycle repeats.

The last time I told him that I was not going to have this conversation with him again, that I was frustrated enough to consider taking a break from the almost 5 year (that's almost 15 years in gay years) relationship. Well, here we are again. We are currently between the dropping hints stage and the silent treatment stage. I am wondering whether I should call up a couple's therapist and schedule an appointment and drag him along, although I doubt that would be a very conducive step toward getting him to open up. Everytime I tell him how his actions (or inactions) make me feel, all he can say is "no sir!" Sometimes it feels like I am with a teenager. So I am asking you guys for advice. What should I do? Should I leave? Find a friend's couch to crash on for a week, and shake him up a little? Should I schedule an appointment with a couples counselor? Should I just let the cycle repeat as usual?

I know that sex is not the most important thing in a relationship, but shouldn't it be AN important aspect? I really could use some advice...

[terrya]

1. Of course sex is important in a relationship.

Yes, it's important. And there's always the possibility that if one person in a relationship (not necessarily you, Thom) feels that the other doesn't care about the sexual aspect, then the frustrated one might go looking elsewhere.

You talked to your guy. You've made your feelings known.

My advice? Schedule an appointment for a couples counselor. DON'T bail out of the relationship just yet.

[thom1102]

3. I don't plan on bailing out...

I really plan on this one being for life, but if I give him a week alone to think about what it would be like on his own again, I am hoping that he will be willing to put in an effort to work out our problems.

[geniph]

2. Thom, that's probably the single hardest thing in any relationship

no matter what the genders of the people involved. Everyone's sex drive differs somewhat, and mismatched sex drives are one of the single biggest problems all couples experience to one degree or another.

My suggestion: don't pressure him. I know that sounds impossible, but he may be avoiding any physical intimacy because it seems like every touch, every hug, immediately leads to sex, and maybe he's just tired or not in the mood. When you really need the intimacy, stop playing the game of waiting for him to come to you. It gets to be a vicious cycle with the partner who's feeling pressured - you feel guilty and you feel bad about it, but you can't MAKE yourself feel desire, no matter how much you love a person. You can even still enjoy sex when it happens and still want to avoid it. It doesn't mean he doesn't love you, it doesn't mean he doesn't want you - it means his drive is different from yours. That is a perfectly normal thing.

A lot of people will probably disagree with me here, but I think the higher-drive partner HAS to initiate sex, no matter how much they want their partner to do it. If you act hurt and petulant, or angry, when you're occasionally rejected, I know it's hard not to take it personally, but the more you show your disappointment and anger, the more your partner will avoid even the possibility of sex, which means he'll avoid so much as a hug.

One technique many therapists recommend is to go completely without sex for a period of time, whether it's two weeks, a month, whatever. You are encouraged to be intimate up to the point of sex during that time, but there is absolutely no actual sex allowed (and what constitutes sex is between the partners, not up to a definition by a special prosecutor). It takes a lot of the pressure off the lower drive partner to know that they can touch, hug, kiss, caress, without immediately charging straight to the naughty bits and getting down to it. It really can help.

But the biggest thing you can do is to try not to feel that it's because he doesn't love you or want you, and to try your best not to make him feel guilty. Guilt only makes it exponentially worse.

[KCDem]

5. I agree with everything Geniph wrote!

:hi:

[thom1102]

6. see but that's just it...

It takes a lot of the pressure off the lower drive partner to know that they can touch, hug, kiss, caress, without immediately charging straight to the naughty bits and getting down to it. It really can help

I don't initiate sex, because I don't want to be the one pressuring him into it. We go sometimes MONTHS without any kind of intimacy beyond a hug and a kiss.

But the biggest thing you can do is to try not to feel that it's because he doesn't love you or want you

It's also the hardest thing to do. And I have explained that that is how his disinterest in intimacy makes me feel.

[geniph]

14. I know how hard it is

and I really think it's time to seek a couples therapist if you're considering doing something like bailing for a week. That could backfire in a bad way; see if you can get a referral to a therapist from your work's EAP or something.

Nothing, not even kids or money, puts the strain on a relationship that sex can. It strikes right at the core of a person's self-esteem, but it's true - everyone's drive is different, and your partner having a lower drive doesn't mean he doesn't still find you devastatingly sexy; it means his hormones don't trip the way yours do.

It's the hardest thing in any relationship. :-(

[KCDem]

4. don't just let the cycle repeat itself.

I think either you should try crashing with a friend for a few weeks or schedule an appointment. Letting the cycle repeat itself will solve nothing... just postpone the inevitable, which is either A) you leaving, or B) you both getting counselling.

Good luck!

[absyntheNsugar]

7. I would go with a couples therapist

Preferrably one who is familiar with sexual issues within a relationship. If you are in the bay area I can reccomend one.

Otherwise...I hope the mods don't lock this thread (tho I have no faith in their reason), although they seem to be very purtanical these days.

[absyntheNsugar]

9. Here's who my wife and I saw:

http://www.sixonsex.com/

She does answer emails. As for what worked for us, I'm not sure it would work for you. Our sexual issues were of a different nature.

[Red_Viking]

8. You're not alone

Most hetero relationships suffer some of the same slings and arrows. Usually, but not always, it's the man "wanting it" and the woman refusing. My sister is the exception, but she's a lunatic. That's another story! If you ask me, it's all about the power relationship, but that may not apply to you.

My SO and I were both divorced when we met. His ex-wife is functionally frigid, and a control freak. He would go months without any physical contact, even a hug. And, he's very affectionate. My ex-husband was a freak. Probably still is. He was into porn, wanted to have sex all the time...I've always had a VERY healthy drive, but our sex life ended up being a huge drain on me. My ex was so obsessed about women and porn that I felt disconnected from him. It was physical rather than intimate. So, I just shut down.

For awhile, I thought maybe I had a problem. But no, it was just the mis-match with my ex. Had everything else been great, the physical aspect of our relationship could have been fixed. Unfortunately, it wasn't the only thing wrong, and we split. Luckily, my SO and I are very evenly matched, and we have a phenomenal physical relationship. Everything else is great, too, by the way!

Now, in your situation, it sounds like you have such a strong bond and an intimate relationship, the physical part could be worked on. I don't know you or your honey, so take this for what you will! It seems he may have some issues he either doesn't recognize or doesn't want to share with you. Counseling is definitely the way to go. As for separation, unless you're miserable, I don't think it's the answer. My dad calls separation "practice for divorce." Have a heart-to-heart with him (again!) and tell him your concerns.

You may never get it as often as you want, but that's why God gave us two hands and fertile imaginations. ;) But, if you can talk honestly and openly and both make an effort to meet in the middle, no pun intended, you may find your relationship on the whole improves.

We have too much hate in the world. It gives me hope hearing stories like yours, where people really and truly love and care about each other. Good for you--and good luck! He sounds like a keeper. Do what you can to make sure you both want to stick around.

:hug:

RV

[thom1102]

10. See and I have no problem with not getting it as often as I would want...

and we did talk about this, and I told him once a week and I would be happy as the proverbial pig in shit, but we literally go weeks without it. I think he is a keeper, but he really does have a lot of internalized homophobia issues that spill over into all different areas of our lives. <sigh> I figured if I crashed on a friends couch for a week, he might get the picture that I am serious about dealing with these issues.

[Red_Viking]

12. Have you told him?

Exactly what you're telling us? If someone I loved told me they were thinking of leaving, I'd sure as hell pay attention! Have a "come to Jesus" talk with him. Seems you're willing to meet him halfway.

Also, he definitely needs to see a counselor. You love him and are proud of him; he should be proud of who he is, too. Perhaps self-esteem is a factor?

Don't give up.

:dem:
RV

[thom1102]

13. Yeah, I told him last time...

I told him that I had considered asking my old housemate if the room he rented me was available, and his response was that he really didn't want that. I agree about the counselor, but if he doesn't go on his own, then I can't make him go you love him and are proud of him; he should be proud of who he is, too. Perhaps self-esteem is a factor? This is absolutely the case. And I am more than willing to meet him three quarters of the way (in his favor). This isn't a case of me being with him because I am getting old and I don't want to be alone in my old age, so he'll do. I really love him, and it would break my heart to lose him, but I don't think that I can just give up having sex to stay with him. That is just not fair to me. I don't know, maybe a bag in my hand would be the catalyst to wake him up.

[truthspeaker]

11. are you sure he's a guy? are you sure he's gay?

or maybe he feels guilty about being gay? I'm male and I can't imagine going for months without sex if I had the option not to.

I don't really have any advice, other than not to drop it or pretend it's not a problem. I recently saw a marriage break up over this very issue. Whenever the husband tried to bring it up the wife shot him down. He stopped bringing it up; she thought everything was OK; he left her for another woman.

Make that appointment with the couples therapist, and if he won't go with you, go by yourself. I know that's an Ann Landers cliche, but sometimes she was on target.

At some point you will have to say to him. "Listen. This is very important to me and it's making me unhappy. What are we going to do about it?"

Edited to add another thought: you say he's a keeper, but his unwillingness to address an issue that's very important to you is an indication that he does not respect you as an equal partner in the relationship. I'm not saying dump him yet, but if he's unwilling to work with you on something important to your happiness he is not ready to be a life partner.