I'm a Southerner. A PROUD Southerner.

[Maddy McCall]

I'm a die-hard Democrat and very liberal. I love the Southern culture in which I was raised. Great music, food, authors, entertainment. I can drive an hour and a half and be in Natchez, New Orleans, or in the foothills of the Appalachians. I can walk out of my front door and converse with good people--black, white, Mexican, American Indians. We've made much progress in the South in racial relations--we had to. We live next door to one another here. We don't sit on some pedestal looking down our snouts telling other Americans what they should do. We live the progress about which we speak here.

The South has changed. My Mississippi has changed. We convicted a Klan member for the murders of three civil rights workers when the federal government would do nothing. We have great community organizations that meet together once a week in black and white churches to discuss ways in which we can work together for racial and community progress. We are pouring money into impoverished black cultural areas to reinvigorate them. Ever heard of the Fondren District in Jackson? You will. It's destined to be another Beall Street. We don't segment our culture. We come together to celebrate it. Blues music, dinner on the grounds, county fairs, rodeos--all are interracial now.

Our children play together. They pay no attention to the color of each other's skin; nor do their parents. There are many interracial relationships, and no one even gives them a passing glance...it's common here. Sure, some of the old-timers may still use the word "nigger," but they have one foot in the grave and one foot on a banana peel. Or they're in prison. Ever heard of De La Beckwith, Bowers, or, again, Killen? We convicted those bastards.

My father is a deacon in a Baptist Church. His best friend is a black man, a native of Haiti, who is also a deacon. They get in the car together and go visit shut-ins, or drive up to Jackson or down to New Orleans to visit people with terminal illnesses. They pray together. They visit in each other's homes. They laugh together. They see each other as "friend," not as "white man" or "black man." My father is 75 years old, and would set you straight if you dared to use the term "nigger" around him.

My town's mayor is black. The police chief is black. The town superintendent is black. The town council has three black men and one white woman. Sound like the paternalistic white South to you? Hardly. White voters put these black men and white woman in office.

The South has changed. Those of us who live here are proud of that and can share countless examples with those of you who don't live here to demonstrate this to you. Of course, if your only experience in the South was spending the night in a casino hotel or stopping to gas up at a convenience store in Jackson, then you might not see the South that we Southerners celebrate.

Pick on us for being red staters. Call us rednecks. Ignorant. Feel superiour to us simply because you live in a state that voted 48% Bush instead of 52% Bush. When you don't listen to us and you demean us, you demonstrate that you have a long way to go to reach the level of tolerance that we have already mastered.

I love the South. For that, I am NOT ASHAMED.

[southlandshari]

1. Amen, sister!

A round of Moon Pies on me for that thread starter!

:applause:

[Maddy McCall]

2. Thank ya, sister.

I'll have an RC and some peanuts with that moon pie. If this hits the greatest page, I'll even buy the watermelon. :D :hug:

[northzax]

3. here we go again...

[Maddy McCall]

6. I'm listening.

Was that a question or a comment. :shrug:

[northzax]

35. every two weeks or so

there is a post about how proud someone is to be a southerner. really, it's fabulous that you are so proud of your heritage. That's a good thing. But why the need to crow? I don't think, in my 10,000+ posts on this board I have ever posted "why I'm proud to be an Oregonian" (I am) or "Why DC is the best city in the World" (it is) why the compulsive need to brag about something like that? does it stem from some sort of base insecurity about your lot in life? Is your heritage and culture so fragile that it needs you to vociferously defend it against all comers? Is it so fragile that it cannot take mockery or derision without regarding that as infantile and uninformed cynicism? I just wonder.

[Maddy McCall]

42. I felt the topic was timely....

considering how some ignorant DUers continue to make the South the DU whipping boy.

Thank god that most DUers see above that kind of bigotry, though.

[northzax]

50. you have to accept the bad with the good

the South that you so rightly praise is also the reason that George Bush is President of the United States. It is the reason that Bill Frist is Majority Leader of the US Senate and Dennis Hastert the Speaker of the House. It is the home of Pat Robertson and Jerry Fallwell; Ralph Reed and Tom Delay; Kay Bailey Hutchinson and Kathryn Harris. Accept that legacy as well.

I personally, will respect the 'South' a lot more when y'all stop sending religious cranks to Washington to tell me how to live my life. The same applies to the Farm Belt. The single worst thing that could happen to 'The South' is currently happening, y'all are winning the culture wars. As an outlying commentator on traditional American values, 'The South' served a purpose to keep us all grounded. But that doesn't qualify any region to have the out sized political ifluence 'the South' now possesses. You stop sending my assholes, I'll stop mocking you. deal?

by the way, I know you, personally, (or I hope so) are not responsible for the schmucks running the joint, but if you claim the pride of ownership, you have to take the responsibility for the weeds in the garden, y'know?

[BikeWriter]

64. * was born in the north. He is a product of Yale and Harvard...

He is no more a true Texan than you are.

[northzax]

104. I'm not saying he is

but without the South, he would be nothing.

[CTLawGuy]

203. I was born in minnesota

and I am not minnesotan in the least. I was raised in CT, and I am a New Englander through and through.

Bush doesn't embody new england values.

Let me know when he starts sporting a Sox hat or shirt.

[quaoar]

99. Oregon eh?

A few blue islands in a statewide sea of red. You might want to tend to your own garden before you start criticizing the weeds in other gardens.

[northzax]

107. I'm not critisizing anyone

who isn't bragging.

and, of course, it's worth noting that in the past 9 years I have lived in Deep Blue Los Angeles and even Bluer Washington DC. Bush didn't even break 5 digits in DC last year, and we are surrounded by the wealthiest, bluest counties in the country (Montgomery in MD and Alexandria and Arlington in VA) so I think the garden's doing just fine, thanks.

[Modem Butterfly]

170. Regionalism is a waste of energy

Stupid, too.

[kick-ass-bob]

100. Oh, I see.

So Oregon gets bashed every other day and called Jesusland and Mayberry and everyone is proclaimed as dumb rednecks?

Do you feel the United States of America is under attack from the Right? Do you not defend your beliefs and the original intent of the founding fathers?

Give me a fucking break.

[northzax]

110. the United States is under attack from within

and most of that attacking is coming from the geographical area colloquially known as the South and the Great Plains. Both bear responsibility, although there are fewer people in the Plains states to take the heat. Every state that voted for John Kerry and Al Gore was from the northeast, upper midwest or west coast. The only large population area that overwhelmingly voted for George Bush is the South. Deal with it.

[BooScout]

129. Oh I get it........

The South is responsible for all the country's troubles........what a load of horseshit.:eyes:

[northzax]

133. not at all

but it has more than its fair share, no?

[BooScout]

145. Only in your mind.....n/t

[northzax]

147. wow, such eloquence

from the home of Flannery O'Connor too. Quick, name three democratic senators from south of the Mason dixon line. name three states south of the same line that voted for a democrat in either of the past two presidential elections. name one state in the south that pays more in taxes than it receives in federal spending. Name one state that has a congressional delegation comprised of more democrats than republicans. name one state that has a delegation that votes to protect a woman's right to choose abortion. name one state that has a congressional delegation that does not oppose gay rights.

come on, you can do it. really, prove to me that the South (ok, name one republican president in the past 30 years who didn't win 75% of the electoral votes of from the Southern States)

I can do all those for New England/mid-atlantic, the Midwest and the West Coast. If we but the country off at the Potomac, the United States would be wealthier, better educated, more productive and as socially progressive as Canada. Get over yourselves and acknowledge that it is the South, and the Plains States that cannot get over the past and are holding all of us back from the future.

[BooScout]

148. I keep it simple for people who have comprehnsion problems....

Quick........name a Democrat not from the South who was President in the last 25 years? Ya can't can ya? Nuff said and just an inane argument as the one you are attempting to make.

BTW.....if you want to attract more people to the Democratic fold..... you are not doing a really great job of it by alienatng a large portion of the country with insults. :eyes:

[northzax]

150. can't take the heat, can you?

is it somehow insulting to have someone ask questions? Why is it that six of the ten poorest states in the US are in the South? Why is it that 9 of the 10 least educated states are in the south? And yet the North and West have greater wealth disparities. Surely you aren't insulted by questions you can't answer, are you? I didn't ask you an unanswerable, leading question (when did you stop beating your wife? type thing) I asked simple factual questions to demonstrate that, for all its many qualities, the South has much to answer for politically. your amusing defensiveness only serves to butress the wall.

as to your question, does that not demonstrate the outsized power of the South, that you can't get elected President without winning it?

[Hosnon]

164. As to the political fact that the South must be carried in order to

win the Presidency - blame the electoral college for the "outsized" power of the South.

There is no magical power in carrying the South to win - just math.

[Zuni]

201. The electoral college

:grr:

For Presidents, it should be a straight popular vote count. Al Gore would be President right now, and we would be a lot better off in many areas. At the very least, we would be making progress and not regressing like we are now

[ForrestGump]

217. "Both bear responsibility"?

No. The regions are not responsible -- it's the people who voted for the doofus, through ignorance or because they're scum, who are responsible. Red states include blue people, too, though the silly Electoral College system may assume otherwise.

[BooScout]

128. She's not crowing....

She's most likely responding to a post from yesterday that blared that the South was full of people filled with hate.

When your home gets derided on daily basis by people who are hell bent on showing us all their ignorance then you might feel the need to step up and defend it too....and try and enlighten the rest of the country as to what it's like to live in the South these days. We ain't just pickin cotton anymore....and I can't afford the mortgage on the Old Plantation.

Good post Maddy!

[merh]

4. I will never be ashamed of being a Southerner.

American by birth, Southern by the Grace of God.

I agree with you Maddy - we live daily striving to put the ghosts of our past to rest. There is less prejudice in the South because we have worked hard to correct our mistakes and to do that we had to acknowledge our mistakes. We still have a ways to go, but not in comparision to the distance we have traveled.

[Zuni]

5. I am hoping to go down to Clarksdale, mississippi soon

and tour the delta area. A lot of my favorite musicians came from the area---Muddy Waters, Howlin' Wolf, John Lee hooker, Charlie Patton, Robert Johnson, Hubert Sumlin---the list goes on and on. The contributions Mississippians have made to modern music is unmeasurable

[merh]

8. That is one place where we need to arrange our meet up Maddy

We can do one in the fall on the Coast and in the Spring at Morgan Freeman's club.

Wouldn't that be a hoot! :bounce:

BTW - I nominated OP for the greatest! :kick:

[Maddy McCall]

29. I have been wanting to visit Morgan's club.

Yes, it sounds like a plan. :D

Thanks for the nomination. :hug:

[merh]

31. Wouldn't that be the greatest.

To enjoy true Mississippi music and culture at our meet up! :applause:

[Maddy McCall]

34. Good thing about Clarksdale is that some more northerly DUers...

would certainly attend. I bet Blondie would drive down. :D

[merh]

43. Well then - we will have that as our meet up location.

That is all there is to it. :hug:

[BlondieK143]

68. Of course I would!

That sounds like fun!

And awesome post (as usual) Maddy. :)

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

48. Morgan Freeman the actor?

[Spider Jerusalem]

69. Yeah...

he owns a club in Clarksdale called "Ground Zero", and a restaurant in a town nearby. He stopped in when I was in Clarksdale a few summers ago; hell of a nice guy...came in, went around and shook hands and spoke a few words with all of the customers.

[Maddy McCall]

10. You have to stay in the Shack Up Inn.

http://www.shackupinn.com/

Give me a PM if you plan to travel more southward in the state. I can tell you some very interesting points you need to visit. You HAVE to visit Natchez and stay at the Eola. :D Great southern hospitality there. And delish mint juleps. :hi:

[Zuni]

62. Natchez Burning

Isn't Natchez where they had a big fire in the 1930s at a Juke Joint where the old blues guys were playing? A lot of Blues songs have been written about a fire in Natchez that killed like 200 people

I also have a fascination with Hurricane Camille---one of the most powerful storms in world history.

[merh]

81. I remember Hurricane Camille

We lived in Gulfport and the night lasted forever. I remember looking out the sliding glass door as all the power in the neighborhood went out. I remember the howling winds and the rain, the thumping of things against the house as the wind throw them through the air. I remember Daddy letting us go out with him during the eye, while he checked what damage had been done to the house. I remember walking to the beach the next morning, seeing the highway torn up in huge chunks the debris all over the beach, dead animals and parts of houses and boats.

I remember weeks of living by candle light and hurricane lamps, sitting outside in the evenings trying to stay cool. Big block parties of sorts as folks shared the food they cooked from their freezers before the food spoiled due to lack of electricity. I remember standing in lines for water and ice and tetnus shots. I remember the community swimming pool being used as the community bath and getting buckets of water from the pool to flush the toilets.

I remember Hurricane Camille.

The Maritime & Seafood Museum in Biloxi has an area dedicated to the Hurricane Camille, they shell the video "A Lady Called Camille" if you have an interest in obtaining it.

http://www.maritimemuseum.org/camille/index.htm

[Zuni]

197. wow, that is crazy

you made it through one of the worst storms in history. Camille had tornado force winds in a hurricane---215 mph it was clocked at at one point! When I was getting over menangitis a few years ago and was bed ridden and weak, I read a book about Camille that my stepdad had lent me. It was fascinating.

[Spider Jerusalem]

67. And make sure you stop in at Hicks' Variety Food Shop.

The tamales are great. Oh, and Shack Up Inn is seconded; great hospitality and people (I was there last summer).

[proud2BlibKansan]

45. Be sure and check out the museum in Clarksdale

and you can still go stand at the crossroads - those two highways are still there.

[Zuni]

61. I saw a special about it

they showed the two Hwys, which were country roads in the 1930s, where Robert Johnson allegedly made his deal with the devil

[proud2BlibKansan]

65. I had goosebumps

standing at the crossroads. It's not a very pretty site, but oh the music history that has come from that intersection!!

The whole area around Clarksdale is really unattractive. Just a lot of cotton fields that are ugly when the cotton isn't blooming. But you can sure understand why so much blues music came out of that area.

[Shell Beau]

109. I am from the Delta. Home of the Blues!

[On the Road]

7. I'm a Northerner Who Has Lived in the South

and even went to a segregated middle school. Civil Rights laws required great changes out of the South which have been made to their credit. Racism in the South is a shadow of what it was, and it's often the evangelicals who have been in the lead. The South is not often given credit for its transformation.

[Taverner]

9. But how do you REALLY feel

Sorry, couldn't resist ;)

No region that produced Molly Ivins, Jim Hightower, Steve Earle, Bill Moyers AND Joe Bob Briggs could be called Ignorant.

I'm proud to be from the Bear Flag State, and I salute your Southern Pride.

[Maddy McCall]

12. And Lucinda Williams.

:D

[Taverner]

14. ...and Flannery O'Connor

[Maddy McCall]

18. My favorite author EVER.

My favorite short story of hers is "Parker's Back." Rich with symbology. I love Flannery. May she rest in peace. :hug:

[Taverner]

24. Haven't gotten to that one yet - "Good Man is Hard to Find" is my fave

Rich with dark, bleak humor...

[Maddy McCall]

26. I love that one, too.

When he stole her wooden leg. Bwahahahaha. "Salt of the earth." LOL!

[supernova]

36. A Hard Man is Good to Find

that's the local title. ;-)

[quaoar]

101. How can you forget Eudora Welty?

Used to see her periodically shopping at the Jitney Jungle on Fortification Drive on the outskirts of Belhaven.

[Mrs. Venation]

106. And Florence King

Fannie Flagg, Rita Mae Brown, Lewis Grizzard and Harper Lee.

We take the good with the bad, but I see much more good than bad about the south.

[Taverner]

134. One could go on with the list of good Southern Writers

Off the topic - but ever notice how Southern Women Writers seem to be channeling James Joyce in a lot of their work?

[margaritamama]

11. Well I'm a yankee

I'd rather have one strong Southern Dem by my side than a dozen Northeastern Liberals. More courage, more conviction and more common sense.
Wouldn't talk your ears off either

[gizmo1979]

20. Whatever.

[ForrestGump]

55. Very succinct

You're obviously not a Northeastern Liberal, then. :P

[elehhhhna]

13. Houston (& suburbs) are FAR more integrated than Chicago will

EVER be.

We like it here, though we're not Tx-born.

[Droopy]

15. I hear you

I've been to the south a lot. My grandparents were from Tennessee and that's where they lived the rest of their lives after my grandpa retired. I've also done a lot of traveling down that way. I've never had a problem with anybody and found that southerners tend to be friendly people judging by the ones that I have met.

[supernova]

16. Hear, Hear, Maddy

I love being a southern woman. :applause: :applause:

[ForrestGump]

17. Hot damn tamale

You speak the truth!

It's not paradise, and becomes less or more so depending on where you are in Dixie, but it's not the primeval hell that so many damn Yankees people seem to consider it. I'm not from the South, but I lived there a fair while and there's much I like about the region.

Point of fact, half the people I knew were from outside the south and that's one of the things that so many aforementioned armchair critics seem to miss: a pretty good chunk of the South's population migrated there from northern states within the past 25 or so years. That's certainly true of the piedmont areas of Georgia (Atlanta and environs) and North Carolina (the Research Triangle). And Atlanta's an example of what you state, regarding the racial makeup of local government, in that this rather huge and important city has for some time basically been run by persons of African heritage (by which I mean that the office of mayor and many of the other key postings in city government have been filled by black officials). I wonder if black representation in the upper-echelons of municipal government is as widespread in, say, the Northeast?

[flamingyouth]

19. I didn't know much about the South til I fell in love with a Southerner

There are good and bad people anywhere you go. There are a hell of a lot of fine people from the South, many of whom are right here on DU. :thumbsup:

[gizmo1979]

21. I didn't know about the south

until I lived there for 3 years.I won't make any bad comments I'll just say I ain't goin back!

[Goldmund]

22. What is "the South"?

So, to summarize, you're saying that in terms of Civil Rights implementation, the South is starting to look more like the North. And that's good.

Now, "Southern Culture" -- what is that? Is there really such a thing? I'm not saying that the regions commonly refered to as "the South" have no indigenous cultures, far from it. But is the culture of Northern Virginia really more similar to the culture of Louisiana than to the one of Pennsylvania? Does the Appalachian culture of Kentucky and East Tennessee really share that much more similarities with Texas than with New Hampshire?

So, in case I'm not clear, I'm not denegrating the region known as "the South" by any means. But I'm questioning its definition as an entity -- "the South". Because, the only thing that unifies all Southern regions to the exclusion of every other region is the Civil War and the subsequent related history of racism and bigotry. I'm not questioning your observations -- to the contrary, I've made them myself, since my parents live in Tennessee and I've observed many similar things to what you're saying. But "the South" cannot be defined as such without acknowledging its pro-slavery history. Without the Civil War and the conditions preceding it and following it, there is no such thing as "the South" in any way other than geographically.

Which is the reason why proclamations of "Southern pride", together with confederate flags, tend to make me recoil.

[Maddy McCall]

27. No, I'm saying the North would do well to start looking like the South.

And "confederate flags" are found all over the US. Even see them in Britain and Germany.

[Taverner]

32. What? Trade our Carl's Jr.'s for Hardees?

[Maddy McCall]

40. Hardees sucks.

But I bet you wish you had Bodacious Barbecue in Cali. :D

[Taverner]

49. I welcome any good BBQ in Cali

The best BBQ you'll find here is in peoples backyards...

[Goldmund]

33. You didn't really answer my question

What does "the South" look like? The specific thing you concentrated on, civil rights, is an area the South has had to catch up to the North on. That's a clear fact, not a statement of bigotry.

So, other than their shared history as the losing side in the Civil War and varying degrees of attempting to cling to its legacy, what is it that makes "the South" an entity? I assume that when you say "I'm proud to be a Southerner" you don't mean "I'm proud to be from the region which lost a war over trying to maintain slavery" -- so what do you mean? What is it that makes Virginia and Texas more alike than Virginia and Maryland?

As far as confederate flags -- sure, they're found everywhere. But it stands for "the South", doesn't it? The reason I mentioned it is that the only unifying symbol of all of the South is the banner under which Civil War was lost, fought for, among other things, preservation of slavery. Is there another unifying symbol for "the South"?

[Maddy McCall]

38. No, I'm saying that the North would do well to catch up with the South...

on civil rights.

You're trying to manipulate this discussion into a direction that I'm not going to play into. Sorry.

Non Sequitur.

[Goldmund]

41. I'm not manipulating anything

and I'm not even going to argue with "the North would do well to catch up with the South on Civil Rights", even though I think that's quite an outlandish statement.

My question is simple: what is "the South"?

[Maddy McCall]

44. It's where I live.

[Goldmund]

51. Cool, if you don't want to talk about it, that's your right

But you only live in "the South" if there is such an entity defined. I'm trying to understand what defines it, since there is no administrative, official or geographic boundary, no political or physical line, that encloses "the South".

[Maddy McCall]

53. Pick up one of John Shelton Reed's books on the South.

He's the definitive author on the topic, and I agree with everything he says. Seriously.


He's a sociologist, btw. Very interesting stuff.

[Goldmund]

54. Cool, will do

Thanks! :)

[Proud liberal Kat]

57. hmm suppose which part of the South and which part of the North

I went to school in Virginia and was really pretty shocked with the amount of racism and sexism there. I am from RI and have lived here all my life other than that one year in Virginia. I can't claim to know the whole South or it's level of civil rights or about the whole North. I would definitely reject the sweeping generalization that "the North" should learn from "the South". In my small experience I wouldn't want my corner of the North to be learning anything about how to deal with racial and gender issues from the small corner of the South I lived in for a year. Other than that I wouldn't try to say much.

I also go with the other poster, what the heck is the South. What does Virginia have to do with Texas?
Kathy

[datasuspect]

139. yeah, like those "civil rights" adherents in jasper, tx?

now, really.

[Maddy McCall]

199. It was a horrible crime. Horrible.

But did Matthew Shepherd's murder happen in the south? How about the black men in NYC and LA who are brutalized by police, on a rather frequent basis?

[CTLawGuy]

204. that is utterly laughable

so the north should start voting for Republicans on the presidential level?

they should allow rampant religious fundamentalism to pervade their entire society?

they should get rid of civil unions and gay marriage and instead adopt strict sodomy laws?

they should base their culture on conformism rather than libertarianism?

they should wave a flag representing a movement to make war on the united states of america, and that represents terror to an entire race of people?


If you like the south, thats ok, but ill stay in New England

Our republicans sign civil union bills, not gay bashing bills.
Our states use the death penalty very sparingly, not every other day.
Our people let you worship how you want and BE who you are without trying to make you conform.
We believe in education and free thought.
I live in the most Democratic region in the nation (Mass and RI are the two most Democratic states in the Union)
Evolution isn't a controversy here.

I consider myself to be one-quarter southern, as my grandmothers family are an old Georgia family, but i am happy that I live in as good a place as I do, hundreds of miles from the nearest red state.

[DemBones DemBones]

90. The banner the slave ships flew was the U.S. flag,

a fact conveniently forgotten/ ignored by those who bash the South and the Confederate flag.

[WMliberal]

92. Actually, most ships sailing from Africa to the New World flew

the Spanish or Portugese flag until 1713, when, under the Treaty of Utrecht, England won the right to the Asiento (slave trading contracts). U.S. slave ships would have been several hundred years late in entering the game.
:silly:

[Goldmund]

124. I fail to see what that has to do with this conversation.

[datasuspect]

138. and get rid of pedestrian scale in population centers?

to make the north look more like the south you'd have to get rid of:

*jeffersonian grid for plats
*extensive public transportation infrastructure
*freight, shipping, and air trafic hubs which would essentially shut down the supply chain for most foodstuff manufacturing and distribution
*better public school systems (my nephews are in a rural texas public school district where they extensively PROSELYTIZE xtianity)
*the most cultural "value" in this country in terms of architecture, museums, art, etc. (they actually try to preserve the past here in the north than bulldoze it for wal-marts)



and try, try, try to be a pedestrian ANYWHERE in the south.

ain't gonna happen.

btw, do you live in a population center or in a rural area?

i think your "boosterism" is a bit naive, because you seem to gloss over much of the "southern tradition" (an agrarian culture that until the invention of air conditioning and the passage of civil rights legislation in the mid-60s) that still stands for sedition and racism.

[Droopy]

28. Come to think of it

I never say I'm proud to be from Ohio. It just happens to be where I live. I've been all over this coutry and there are few parts of it that I would be averse to living. Mostly it's just the huge cities I'm not too fond of. That's probably due to my small town upbringing.

[Goldmund]

52. Come to think of it,

how often do you hear about "Northern Pride" at all?

Why do you think that is?

[Droopy]

56. Well I don't want to get too controversial here

I guess us northerners just have low self esteem. ;)

[tavalon]

63. Because the northerners

feel comfortable and not much attacked. So they don't feel the need to band together to form a "brand".

I've lived most of my life in various parts of the South though I am currently trying with everything I have to get my life permanently moved to the Northwest.

I wish I could corroborate Maddy's story but with the exception of Austin, TX. I've encountered most of the racism I've seen in the south.

A friend made an interesting observation recently, though. She said she likes the South better because down there, the racism is right in your face but up here, in Seattle, where racism isn't PC, the racism isn't gone, it's just much more covert. That took me aback but after looking at it through her eyes, I had to say she had a point.

[quaoar]

102. I live in Alabama

and went to graduate school in Chicago.

Alabama is far more racially enlightened than Chicago.

[mitchtv]

84. Are you kidding?

I am a New Yorker, I live in California. I love them both. Being a Gay married to a Mex Am, I suppose I could live in one of the larger southern cities, but not safely

[Shell Beau]

111. See that is the exact stereotype. Several gay people

are open here in the south. I know quite a few of them, and while some people may not agree with it, they just turn their heads and look the other way. Sure there are some incidents now and then, but hell, it is no different anywhere else in this country.

[carolinayellowdog]

127. Are you? Look at these hate crime stats

http://www.fbi.gov/filelink.html?file=/ucr/03hc.pdf

[xmas74]

137. There are cities in Georgia that you could live quite com-

fortably in (I'm thinking of Augusta and Savannah right off the top of my head).

Dammit, I swore I would not post on this thread!

[Hosnon]

152. Haha, are YOU kidding? Try Atlanta...eom

[ForrestGump]

218. Atlanta and Houston have large gay communities

Hell, Elton John chose to live primarily in the Atlanta area some years back.

Don't know about New Orleans...that's one sexually ambiguous town.

And 'mixed-race' or multiethnic (or whatever term you prefer) couples are common in the South, from what I've seen. Maybe not in some places, where paleolithic attitudes persist a bit (and those places are acknowledged to be Deliverance-like by southern-type folks in adjacent areas) but that is also true of states beyond the geographic borders of the South.

[JVS]

87. I'm filled to the brim with Northern Pride!

THE NORTH RULES!

[Call me Deacon Blues]

30. I hear what you're saying . . .

but going along with that reasoning, there's no real "identity" to ANY region. History is a big thing down here, and I agree that it is in general a bad thing -- too many people use it as an excuse to fly the Stars N' Bars. But I don't think about the "history" of a region as much as I think about a region's culture, its' food, its' accents, the way people dress, their weather. The south? They're slow & genteel, they eat fried catfish & watermelon & gumbo, they play country music & blues & jazz (and we've turned out our share of rock n' roll, too), they talk slow & draw out their syllables, they dress for comfort, not for speed, they use a lot of air conditioning because it's hot & muggy for a lot of the year, and they DO NOT know how to drive in snow -- and consequently enjoy it a lot more than people up north. See, we can say all these things without once talking about race!

Personally, I think we can ALL get along!

[Goldmund]

47. Good post -- I absolutely agree we can all get along

The "southern stereotype" you're refering to exists as a consequence, not as the cause, of the definition of South as a unique entity. Even as such, as with every stereotype, it is inaccurate: they get plenty of snow in Northern Virginia or Eastern Kentucky; they ain't very slow and genteel in cities like Atlanta or Houston; some of the best indigenous blues and Jazz comes out of right here where I am, NYC; they love Country music in Northern New England, too; many aspects of that stereotype have to do with the fact that the South has been thought of as overwhelmingly rural, but doesn't apply to the more urban areas of the South; etc. Once "the South" was defined as a region, perceptions of "what people there are like" came to be associated with that entity, "the South" -- they are the egg, not the chicken. :)

[ForrestGump]

59. "Indigenous blues and Jazz" in NYC?

Excuse me? Puts me in mind of a certail salsa commercial: "New York City?!?!?"

Though I'm sure that NYC boasts an abundance of stellar blues and jazz, and probably anything else -- good, bad, or indifferent -- that the world has to offer, perhaps you might want to consider your use of the word 'indigenous.' Blues and jazz are southern forms of music, as is the modern derivation of rock 'n' roll and its other two contributrs: country/bluegrass and black/white gospel. The music's everywhere, now, but it started in the South. Most American music has its roots in the South. Maybe all of it.

It began in Memphis, New Orleans, and the Mississippi Delta...and then it floated upriver to St Louis and Chicago and finally spread everywhere else, including NYC. There's a reason why it's the "Beale Street Blues" and not the "Wall Street Blues."

[Goldmund]

60. LOL

Yes, it started in the South, of course -- but that doesn't mean that new jazz can't be indigeonous to other regions. Also, without Harlem Jazz as we know it would not exist.

In terms of culture, no New Yorker would ever cite "Wall Street" as a landmark of NYC, anyway.

[foo_bar]

75. didn't Procol Harum do Wall Street Blues?

Edit for point: no point.

[DemBones DemBones]

91. You've probably never even seen the Stars and Bars --

the Confederate battle flag is the one everyone knows and it is not the Stars and Bars.

[Maddy McCall]

93. Actually, wasn't the original "Confederate" flag ...

the Army of Northern Virginia's flag?

[Mrs. Venation]

105. Northern Virginia

But is the culture of Northern Virginia really more similar to the culture of Louisiana than to the one of Pennsylvania?

It's not a valid analogy. I lived in northern Virginia for 19 years, and, while it is geographically part of the south its culture is most assuredly not southern. Northern Virginia is part of the Washington, DC, metropolitan area and has largely adopted the multi-national, urban, cosmopolitan culture of that area and has divorced itself from its southern heritage.

A while back there was even serious discussion of a secession from Virginia to form a new state.

[ForrestGump]

219. Maybe the commuter suburbs in Virginia and Maryland could secede to

form a new state. VirginMary. Not to be confused with virgin bloody Mary, aka tomato juice.

[Call me Deacon Blues]

23. I know people from all over . . .

I'm from Tennessee, but I worship the Boston Red Sox. Love the northeast. My wife's from Chicago (which is a WONDERFUL town), but spent quite a bit of adulthood in Texas. You can find good and bad everywhere. But we have that one common thread that weaves through all of us here at DU. We're PROGRESSIVES, we're LIBERALS, we're DEMOCRATS, and Damned Proud of it!

[Daphne08]

25. Yeee-Haw! God I miss the South, place of my birth and

home for most of my life.

I'm tired of being kowtowed, too, by those who don't understand the South and never will.

Oh, and George Bush? He is NOT a Southerner!

[autorank]

37. Great post!!! I'm a Virginian, former NYCer, native Californian...

...proud of all of them in their own way.

Of course, I'm in Northern Virginia which is like Westchester County just north of NYC or Silicon Valley in California so what do I know about the south but technically I am one and proiud of it!

[trof]

39. Well said and well done Maddy.

It's the way I feel too, and could have been written about me.
Thank you.

[fishnfla]

46. Hell yes!

I was born a Yankee, but have lived most of my life in the south; New Orleans, Mobile, Memphis, now Florida.

Southerners are allright by me, Maddy

[johnnie]

58. I've done a bit of traveling and all I can say is

People are people no matter where you go. I have some good food in a lot of different places, I have been treated like shit in a lot of different places, I have been treated very good in a lot of different places, I have seen racism, sexism and just plain isms in a lot of different places. There are areas in Ohio that you would think you are in the middle of rednecksville, and there are places in some southern states that you would think you are in the middle of Pittsburgh.
Almost all the places I have been, there have been great places and not so great places to be. I have seen a few difference. Accents and weather being the main difference.
I guess it is part of our nature to take the imaginary lines that are drawn on a map to separate ourselves from each other and use them to label ourselves, but it's not really that different around the country.
If I drive an hour (or less) south of where I am, I will see just about every stereotype of a "redneck" that there is. That includes the accents and rebel flags. I am pretty far north.
From what I have observed, it is more about the city that you are in than the state. People are people.

[struggle4progress]

66. As a fomah Yankee, suh, an as a prowd Nuth Caolinian, I salutes yew. eom

[XemaSab]

70. Word

Anyone from California who bashes the South (and there are a few here, sad to say), hasn't spent any time either in the South or travelling through Cali. You can see more confederate flags in Madera County, CA than I ever saw in a combined 3 1/2 months in Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, and Texas. People here in Madera county are ignorant, backwards, bible-thumping hicks with three teeth apiece. Man, I went to the DMV in Redding the other day and it was a PWT freak show. Every bad "southern" stereotype lives to this day in a dark corner of California, my home state.

On the other hand, most of the Southerners I have met have been so gracious, and I LOVE the accent and expressions. I've also met many die hard liberal southerners, and the food... wow... LOTS of salt and butter and who knows what else, but yummah! Maybe it was just the area of the South I was in but the hunting and fishing culture... I'm okay with it. It's a connection to the land that most people don't have, and being served something that your host shot or caught himself or herself, it's very personal.

And the land down there is so pretty! Most of Texas notsomuch, but the Carolinas and Virginia are so GREEN and lush. The wildlife is everywhere (for better or for worse) and so much of the land is still open space, I was very surprised. The weather's wicked hot in the summer, but working outside in South Carolina in July isn't any worse than working outside in Fresno in July, heatwise.

Yay for the South!

[really annoyed]

71. Good

I live in Michigan, but I wouldn't mind living in the South.

I had a GREAT time traveling through the South. Well, I guess it helps that my whole family is from Tennessee. ;-)

The South has definitely changed. I'm glad to read about the interracial harmony... Here in my county - one of the most segregated in the United States. Yeah, we're real enlightened here in the North. :-(

[Wapsie B]

72. You have every right to be proud.

This Southern hatred is just plain wrong. Goodness, the last two Democratic Presidents have been from where? The South. That's just for openers.

[eyepaddle]

73. I generally love your posts Maddy McCall,

but the day I was canned from the oilfield and allowed to flee Louisiana was about the happiest day of my life. Granted I worked offshore for a couple of years, and the offshore oilfield is not exactly a thriving hotbed of freethought, but I got tired of the entire "we're the friendliest region in the world--just as long as you admit that where you're from sucks and is a vile boil on humanity. Oh yeah, even though I've never been anywhere else I know this place is the best" routine.

I once had a good ol' boy explain to an Englishman -- In my logging unit -- "Americans hate Yankees more than they hate foreigners." I still don't know where to start with tearing that apart, Yankees are no longer Americans, but the region that attempted to shoot its way out is, as well as the implied postion that non-Yankee Americans hate everybody who is not a fellow non-Yankee American.

Yankee being used as a pejorative or derogatory statement got pretty tiresome. Especially in light of its shifting defintion. People from Alabama think of Georgians and Floridians as Yankees, Louisiana knows Arkansas and Texas is nuthin' but a bunch o' Yankees. Hell, where I lived (Lafayette) anybody north of I-10 was a Yankee. If a club is that exclusive, you'd think other people wanted in.

As long as the assumed theme is "we're better than you" of course people are gonna get annoyed. And the secret is out that the south doesn't like the north.

You might hear about it more than you want to here, but this IS a political message board, so you're gonna run into it more here than elsewhere. I hang out with some fairly political people up here (in MN) and North/South relations usually don't come up at all. Only when we're discussing electoral maps and votes. When I lived in Lousy-ana I heard that topic often, both in modern and historical context.

This was rarely directed personally at me, because I (even though this message might belie this) am pretty good at getting along with folks. But I heard it most days nonetheless. I'm annoyed with large slabs of people from Maine to California, and Alaska to Florida, including many here in my home of Minnesota. As soon as the South stops constantly telling me how f'ing great it is, maybe then I'll start to believe it is great.

Now I hope after that off-the-cuff spleen-filled essay is out of my system we can still be friends.

I am glad I am not in the South anymore for that I am not ashamed.

[BikeWriter]

77. You have a right to not like the south, and I have a right to disagree...

and I do!

[eyepaddle]

78. I don't dislike "The South"

I just got tired of the BS thrown my way when I was there. New Orleans is fantastic by way of example. Although New Orleans is really its own planet and not all that connected Earth! I think I just come a little unglued when this topic come up. And I hate to say this, but this is really more GD, I try to keep my annoyances out of the lounge.


and one more thing BikeWriter:
kayak kayak kayak kayak kayak kayak kayak kayak kayak kayak kayak kayak kayak kayak kayak kayak kayak kayak kayak kayak kayak kayak
;)

[Texasgal]

74. Well said Maddy!

Your post said it all, I need not add anything! :)

[MrScorpio]

76. I've decided to adopt the New South

For a life long Northerner, this is a big deal.

I'm sure that most of the south and the majority of Southerners today are fine, upstanding people.

Unfortunately, from my experience in Montgomery a couple of years, I've seen that there are still some pockets of resistance.

But despite that, the South has come a long way in my lifetime, and I'm very appreciative of that.

Fight on, Maddy

[cmf]

79. There are good people and places in the South

As there are good people and places in the North and in the West. There are also bad experiences to be had in all of those places. I refuse to paint any of it with broad brush strokes good or bad. I am from the deep South (though I now live in the Northwest), and while I don't particularly like it when people trash the South, I don't feel the need to run to its defense because I've seen the ugly parts myself. But I agree with you, you should not feel ashamed to love the South.

[RoyGBiv]

80. Dearlord I love you ...

This post made my day.

:applause: :woohoo: :yourock: :woohoo: :applause:

[confludemocrat]

82. Southern pride. What's up with that?

Its a sensitive subject, but is stressed often and only by southern whites in my experience.

Ever heard of northern pride, western pride? No. White pride? Yes. Interesting.

Home is home. Don't get the pride thing, though.

[xmas74]

140. I know of plenty of black and hispanic southerners

who express their pride of living in the South. They will mention that events in the past haven't exactly been wonderful but if you ask why don't they move to a more tolerant climate they will tell you that the South is the best place in the world.

It's not about white pride. And no, you don't hear so much about northern pride. Instead, you hear about the North still making fun of the South.

[Maddy McCall]

200. Many blacks are returning to the south, because they believe that...

the racial climate here, at present day, is better than in other regions.

[xmas74]

202. Exactly.

And it can be, at times.
Cities like Atlanta are the proof. An old friend is planning on moving to Atlanta. She is an attorney and highly educated. She is also black.
She stated that she felt more comfortable on her visits to Atlanta than she had ever felt almost anywhere else in the US. She's not originally from the South but she is very excited about calling herself a Southerner and hopes that she is completely accepted as one.
Plus, she fell in love w/ The Varsity.

[elfrangel]

83. Got this Email the other day...

thought I'd share it. I have no idea where it originated, but...
===================
This is my South:
My South is full of honest, hardworking people.
My South is the birthplace of blues and jazz, and rock n' roll. It has banjo pickers and fiddle players, but it also has BB King, Muddy Waters, the Allman brothers, Emmylou Harris and Elvis.
My South is hot.
My South smells of newly mowed grass.
My South was kick the can, creek swimming, cane-pole fishing and bird hunting.
In my South, football is king, and the Southeastern Conference
and the Atlantic Coast Conference is the kingdom.
My South is home to the most beautiful women on the planet.
In my South, soul food and country cooking are the same thing.
My South is full of cornbread, butter beans, fried chicken, grits and catfish.
In my South, our transistor radios introduced us to the Beatles and the Rolling Stones at the same time they were introduced to the rest of the country.
In my South, grandmothers cook a big lunch every Sunday, so big that we call it dinner (supper comes later).
In my South, family matters, deeply.
My South is blackberry cobbler, peach ice cream, banana pudding and oatmeal cream pies.
In my South people put peanuts in bottles of Coca-Cola and hot sauce on almost everything.
In my South the tea is iced and almost as sweet as the women.
My South has air-conditioning.
My South is camellias, azaleas, wisteria and hydrangeas.
In my South, the only person that has to sit on the back of the bus is the last person that got on the bus.
In my South, people still say "Yes, ma'am," "No ma'am," "Please" and "Thank you"
In my South, we all wear shoes....most of the time.
My South is the best kept secret in the country.
==================

To answer your question about "What is the SOUTH"? The SOUTH , as defined by the Census Bureau, is the Southern region of the United States. Including 16 states, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Maryland, North Carolina, South Carolina, Virginia, West Virginia (plus the District of Columbia), Alabama, Kentucky, Mississippi, Tennessee, Arkansas, Louisiana, Oklahoma and Texas. However, any self respecting Southerner will tell you that Delaware, Maryland, and D.C. are not in any way part of the SOUTH. Does that do it for your question?

[Shell Beau]

112. I love that e-mail and it sure is the truth!

:woohoo:

[Mrs. Venation]

122. Sorry, But This Self-Respecting Southerner Disagrees

However, any self respecting Southerner will tell you that Delaware, Maryland, and D.C. are not in any way part of the SOUTH.

Delaware and parts of D.C. probably don't qualify as the south, but Maryland most definitely is part of the south, as are parts of D.C. One of the most popular restaurants in D.C. is called Georgia Brown's, and its menu is as southern as can be, including grits!

[Taverner]

191. Werent those places southern before the mason dixon was drawn?

Just like West Virginia was and is the South, yet did not secede....

[Redstone]

85. I don't think anyone here is demeaning or insulting you.

They're demeaning and insulting the Southerners who are NOT like you; the ones you don't like too much your ownself.

Yes?

In case you want a personal opinion, I haven't been in Mississippi for 25 years or so, but I did like it a whole bunch; enough to stay for a while and go back a couple of times. I'd loke to go there again, though I suspect I'd probably not be happy with the kind of development I imagine they've had in Senatobia (one of my favorite small towns) since the casions came in. I'd imagine my other favorite, Coldwater, has gotten built up as well.

Redstone

[mitchtv]

86. Not a word in this thread on the treatment of gays

throughout the South except from me. Scary place for gays.It seems race relations may be better cause they got a new N******

[Maddy McCall]

89. Why don't you ask some of the DUers who live here.

Ask some of the gay DUers who live in the South.

[mitchtv]

158. there are plenty here to say

in NY too, tho many there escape from the midwest if they don't go to Chicago. While there are islands of tolerance , it is obvious that they are ruled by intolerant So Baptist bigots. Miami is not truly a Southern City.

[Kipepeo]

94. I'm from the South as well and the racial harmony described in the OP

may be true for Mississippi but it sure wouldn't be a fitting description for my hometown where institutionalized racism is common and you don't just hear racist slurs from only the old-timers. And don't even get me started on how gays and lesbians are treated - the new senator wants to make sure they don't teach in schools is what.

I live on the west coast now - and I'm not blind. I can see that prejudice is everywhere and the way racism and homophobia are enforced varies on where you're at - so no, blue states don't get some kind of "new and improved: racism, sexism and homophobia free" stamp of approval that the red states don't get - but I do feel a whole lot more comfortable to be myself when there are more people around me who share my views. When I go home to visit the folks it's like I'm visiting a different world, where some things are "not said" and I come off as more socially awkward than usual - talking about what I'm not supposed to talk about, which includes my "sinful" life. :eyes: Sheesh.

On the other hand, when I was still living at home I felt I had to fight a lot harder on a daily basis and the kindred spirits I met were more passionate in their opinions simply because liberals are in the minority - and you have to be tough and full of conviction to stand up for your beliefs when not everyone around you is agreeing with you. Southern liberals are bad-ass political role models for all democrats.

I just don't understand the need to defend the south, partially because I don't see the southern-bashing that people say goes on here - I have not been visiting as much lately so who knows.

[BooScout]

131. It was here yesterday......

Every part of this country discriminates in some way.....either openly or hiddenly. To continue to single out an entire region gets old.....that's why the need to defend. I am sure if the NE or the West got singled out for derision on a constant basis someone would react the same way as the OP in her attempt to help others understand.

[Shell Beau]

113. I am not gay, but I don't see it to be any different here than

it is anywhere else. We are not backwards here and although a good bit of people don't agree with homosexuality here, they don't beat them or verbally bash them, they just turn their heads. Which as I said before is basically the same thing as anywhere else in this country.

[Mrs. Venation]

126. You Don't Know Jack

Homo-hatred is no worse in the South than anywhere else. Besides that, scratch a homo-hater and you'll find a racist or a misogynist, or both. Bigotry knows no boundaries.

[BooScout]

130. You obviously haven't been to Atlanta lately....

My god we even have gay legislators and gay city council persons. Oh the humanity of such treatment.

[Robeysays]

166. You all should move to Arizona...

i live in TEMPE

as for gay/lesbian hatered im sure it goes on, but pheonix is the lesbian capital of the US. i personaly know a lot pairs of lesbians, one of witch is my X girl friends parents, and countless gay couples. our old mayor was openly gay, the no offense mormon church funded a recall election, but it failed, big time. i think but not sure the gov is well you know.

where as racisim goes on, but not where i live, if you say some thing in public your pretty much scowled at, and ignored. and some times you are told to leave. most of the racist people here come from diffrent states, a big one is california and texas. the minute man project was started by a californian who moved here. most the conservatives in our state house and senate are voted in by those "snow bird/newbie" communities. whom all are big bush supportes. the state just passed a bill requiring you to bring a voter id to vote, because these people think mexicans are voting, nope there just loseing the state to the blue coulum.

[Floogeldy]

88. I'm an Oklahoman. A PROUD Oklahoman.

Not really. I lied.

The liberals in this state are fantastic, though, and we do have a Democratic governor, now. Seems Oklahomans would rather have a Democrat from Shawnee, OK as governor than that opportunistic freak, Steve Largent (yes, THAT Steve Largent).

The crazy thing is that Oklahoma came to fruition on the crest of a purely socialist wave. Corporations were OUTLAWED in the original Oklahoma Constitution.

But, alas, the states radio airwaves are soaked with Limbaugh, Hannity and the like, and the idiots (majority) fall for it.

Dumbasses.

}(

[RoyGBiv]

95. Oil ...

This state (I am still at least semi-proud of being an Okie) lost its way with oil, Robert S. Kerr, and the so-called oil boom. Every bad thing about this state can be traced to oil.

Sounds similar to the current state of the nation, matter of fact.

[NoSheep]

96. I'm happy to hear your area is doing so well.

I'm from NC. We're doing better than most think. There is much to love about the south. I've seen good and bad everywhere.

[GetTheRightVote]

97. I only know that Charlotte NC is just as bad as it always was

it has not grown up at all but it has gotten better at being phony as you know what, what is on the surface is not what is real, believe me. The south still needs to grow up a whole *** of a lot. Racism is still very much at home in the deep south.

:kick:

[Shell Beau]

114. And everywhere else.

[youspeakmylanguage]

116. WTF?

1) Charlotte, NC is not the "deep South" by any stretch of the imagination. How did you come to that conclusion?

2) What does being "phony" have to do with racism? Charlotte is a "phony" city in what way? This is the #2 banking capital in the country. People here are materialistic - is that what you mean by "phony"? What does that have to do with racism?

3) What sort of racism did you experience in Charlotte? Was it an isolated incident or was it institutionalized?

[madeline_con]

98. "... meet together once a week ...

...in black and white churches to discuss ways in which we can work together ..."

They could starts by worshipping together.

[Maddy McCall]

198. Did you not read that my father's Baptist church has black members?

Maybe I didn't make it so clear, but my father's church has black members.

And there are MANY interracial churches here.

[madeline_con]

215. It wasn't your father's church

you wrote about when you said "white churches" and "black churches", was it?

[ForrestGump]

220. There are 'traditionally white' and 'traditionally black' churches

I am not religious, by any stretch of the imagination, but I used to often go to black churches to listen to (more like experience) the music. I met some great people, too, and I appreciated the different relationship with 'God' (or whatever) that was featured, as well as the group social conscience. I never felt any less than comfortable and was rarely the only white person there -- some of these churches, once segregated, had white people in their organization, including in preacher roles. Similarly, white churches are attended by black people. There's a legacy of segregation -- self-segregation is also somewhat natural in humans, anyway -- but the color line is routinely crossed in the South without anyone blinking. In the South that I know, anyway.

One thing I can tell you for sure: I'm not sure that I would feel as comfortable attending a black church in LA or the Bay Area...even if the people were nice, I expect that I would feel less comfortable and more like an intruder. Maybe not, but that expectation is merely a byproduct of racial tensions in the Golden State that far eclipse what I've seen or felt in the South. As a white male I have rarely felt racial tension in the South but have felt it a lot in SoCal...I can only speak to the equivalent black or other nonwhite experience through observation, obviously, but I would say that if I were black and not among the monied élite, I'd quite possibly prefer the South to many places. I've met and known black people who moved back to Mississippi and elsewhere, from places like Detroit and Chicago, because they felt more comfortable there. It confirmed what I'd long read and heard: that things are pretty much sorted out in the South (there is an aspect of 'everyone knows his place,' of course, but not always necessarily in a bad or hierarchical sense these days) and that what little overt racism remains is preferable to the veiled bigotry elsewhere in the nation. There's also a bit of the "better the devil that you know" at play, of course.

Oh yeah...that brings me to another point: 'black' and 'white' churches are not unique to the South. In Los Angeles and other places where racial segregation was never institutionalized, there're plenty of AME and other churches that are predominantly black in the makeup of their congregations. How can this be?!?! Gasp, I say...

[Maddy McCall]

221. Thanks. You said it better than I could.

[Mrs. Venation]

103. You Rock Out Loud!

Here's another proud southerner. My little home town, Clinton, Tennessee, was the first public school system in the country to racially integrate after the Brown v. Board of Education decision, and we didn't wait until the 60's. The Anderson County school system racially integrated in 1958 -- years before some of the school systems up north followed suit.

Growing up in the south meant I was raised with the best parts of southern culture -- kindness, respect for others, a strong relationship with both nuclear and extended family and patriotism based on a strong love of country but healthy cynicism of politicians.

We believe that being rude is damn near criminal, and good manners are a sign of respect both for oneself and for others. We will fight for justice, and woe be unto anyone who picks on someone smaller and weaker than himself (the only time my nephew, Devin, got into trouble at school was when he intervened in a fist fight and took the side of the smaller kid.)

When I moved to the Washington, DC, metropolitan area 23 years ago I was astonished at the rudeness and lack of manners here. I am convinced that if rudeness were an olympic sport, people in Washington, DC, would win the gold medal. I have been subjected to overt regional bigotry when people hear my accent and make the assumption that I am an ignorant, unsophisticated and naive country hick. For the record, I have not tried to lose my accent, and I will never try to do lose it. My accent is part of who I am, and if people don't like it they can bloody well go to hell.

We southerners aren't perfect, and we don't pretend to be, but we are some damn fine people! I come from a long and distinguished line of rednecks, and I wear the label proudly.

Thank you, Maddy, for posting this thread.

[Burma Jones]

151. A big difference I've noticed is that Northerners are Rude up front

and Southerners are rude behind your back. DC, being neither Southern or Northern, embraces the worst of both.

How's that for generalizations?

[bertha katzenengel]

206. How's that for generalizations?

Pretty good. And like most, it doesn't begin to cover reality.

The only place generalizing is good is when you're painting a wall all one color.

:hi:

[Burma Jones]

208. My point precisely

:hi:

[johnnie]

167. Since you touched on rudeness

I really enjoy going south, but each time I went there were many occasions that as soon as I opened my mouth I was treated rude. I learned to say as few words as possible so my "yankee" accent wouldn't be noticed. I'm not saying everyone was rude, but I can say that "southern hospitality" was no different than "northern hospitality".
So I guess what I am saying is that I see what you are saying about the "other side" being rude. I experienced it many times down south. I still like going there though.

[Shell Beau]

108. Beautiful!

:applause: And I agree 100%!

[Burma Jones]

115. Well, My family all hails from the South

And I've spent most of my life there. I now live in a technically Southern state (Maryland). I suppose Maddy's post is in response to the latest "Why we in the Blue States would just as soon you Red Staters would secede again" E-mail going around that I posted (and subsequently deleted after about 20 minutes) a couple days ago. I know that there are plenty of Red Northerners and Blue Southerners. But why do Californians, New Yorkers and Jerseyites have to put up with smears with humor and Southerners have to take out the white gloves and slap us with them? F'rinstance http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=3584426&mesg_id=3584426

The recently departed Shelby Foote made a comment in Ken Burns' Civil War series may shed some light on this. Describing some pre-battle pep-talk during WWII, he said that the CO stated that Americans had never lost a war. Well, the Southern soldiers came from a "country" that had lost a war and that had suffered the consequences for decades. Southerners had been defeated and a way of life (temporarily) destroyed.

Now, was that post meant to paint all of you with a broad brush? No, because I would be painting myself with the same brush. Are you defending your fellow state citizens, the ones that are regressive and repressive? Maybe. The post was satirical, it pointed to the tax revenue disparity between Progressive and Non-Progressive States amongst other issues to tweak folks like Trent Lott and his supporters.

That having been said, the people mainpulating us for their gain aren't Southerners, they're corporatists and have no allegiance to the USA, Red or Blue, except to the extent to which they can squeeze money from us.

[youspeakmylanguage]

117. I think his post is in response to the nuclear flame war that erupted...

...on this thread.

I ended up plonking two posters on a single thread, which is a new record for me. I think...

[Burma Jones]

118. Ahhh, Vash, shoulda known......

Thanks.

[youspeakmylanguage]

119. Yep...

...plonked.

[BooScout]

132. That was it....

....Vash even put me on his ignore list.....my first....should I feel flattered? :rofl:

[youspeakmylanguage]

142. Plonking is a great thing...

...it helps make the whole forum experience better because it helps you avoid people that will ruin a good discussion. It also helps keep disagreements from escalating.

I wouldn't lose sleep over it. After some time he'll probably remove you.

[BooScout]

144. Trust me........

I am not losing sleep over that.B-)

[Brewman_Jax]

120. Point of information

The murders of Schwerner, Goodman, and Cheney, (the Mississippi Burning case and movie) were investigated and tried by the federal government in United States vs. Price et al. It took 30+ years for the State of Mississippi to investigate, prosecute, and convict Edgar Ray Killen, Sam Bowers, and Byron De La Beckwith.

[Shell Beau]

121. To me it shows how far we have come. The people of

MS fought to get Killen tried and convicted which only proves Maddy's case!

[quaoar]

125. Another point of information

Hoover had absolutely no interest in pursuing the Neshoba County case, which ended in a hung jury. De La Beckwith was not involved in that case. He assassinated Medgar Evers.

Those two cases and the trial of the final two involved in the bombing of the Sixteenth Street Baptist Church in Birmingham are a sign of just how far the South has come. You can wag your finger all you like about 30-year delays, but those of us who were in the South in the 60s know what it was like, know what sacrifices in lives had to be made to change it and can rightfully bask in the redemptive power of justice finally being served.

When you have to struggle for justice, you tend to appreciate it more.

[Brewman_Jax]

135. Should have separated the paragraphs

I was answering the OP's incorrect assertion that the state investigated the Schwerner, Goodman, and Cheney murders, when it was the federal government that did. The federal government often had to step in when the state would not. That J.E. Hoover didn't want to investigate didn't matter, the work was done. In the federal trial, there were a total of 7 convictions, 7 acquittals, and 3 no verdicts, of which Killen was one.

That the cases took 30+ years shows that there's more to do, not sit down and bask.

[GOPBasher]

123. I don't care where anyone lives.

There are people all over the country that are cool. And there are people all over the country that are ignorant bigots. I don't talk about "red states" and "blue states"; rather, I talk about "red people" and "blue people."

Your pride in the improvement of race relations is well earned. :-)

[GoBlue]

136. How paternalistic of you ...

'white' voters to 'put' those 'black' men in office.

[Shell Beau]

143. She was making the point

that racism isn't what others who don't live in the south believe it is. That all rich white men are in power. She was saying that black and white people are voted into office by the black and white voters of the south. It is a long way from where we were years ago and is something to be proud of. Stop trying to rain out this parade. After all that has been done and how far civil rights has come, it is worth celebrating and worth working harder to keep it progressing.

[Maddy McCall]

155. Nice try.

All but 10 of over 500 ballots that were cast in this town by blacks and whites were interracial.

White and black voters put white and black candidates in office.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

141. Nice post ya redneck!

Now when are you and Uncle Cousin gonna pay me a visit in California? :evilgrin:

[Terran]

146. It's fine to be proud of your accomplishments, but...

some of this sounds like wishful thinking.

Our children play together. They pay no attention to the color of each other's skin; nor do their parents. There are many interracial relationships, and no one even gives them a passing glance...it's common here.

"No one" gives them a "passing glance"?? How can you speak for tens of millions of people that way? I live in a state that is partly quasi-southern (Missouri) and where I live, I know for a fact that interracial relationships are still despised by many many people.

All I'm saying is, I'm glad your own experience is so posiitve, but it's not that way for everyone, and clearly not even for the majority. If the majority of Southerners felt as you do, they wouldn't be voting republican.

[Texasgal]

154. Look... as much as I dislike repukes

I have to say that not all repukes are racist bigots! My parents raised me to embrace diversity ( which I did ) and I still do, and they are both republican, with alot of diverse friends who voted REPUBLICAN.

Now... don't get me wrong, I find alot of repukes to be mindless nitwits, but so are alot of of Libs... especially here on this board!

I told myself to resist the urge to respond on this thread, the stereotypes are simply astonishing.

[Terran]

169. I wasn't meaning to connect republicans with racism per se

My last paragraph pertained to your entire post, not just the part I italicized. I know some very race-tolerant republicans too...but overall, I don't (can't) believe that the great progress you all have made in ALL areas, not just in race relations, has much to do with the efforts of conservatives (i.e., the ones calling themselves republicans these days). And given that Republicans control most of the states in the South, I think it's clear that the majority don't see things the way you do. That's not a stereotype, that's just 2 + 2 = 4. They may not be a big majority, but still a majority. And republicans, no matter where they be, don't have any big interest in seeing African-Americans succeed economically.

[Texasgal]

172. Agreed....

But did any of you ever stop to think that there are some of us fighting to change that?

During the elections, I put in countless hours canvassing, putting up fliers and signs.... trying to make a change.

Don't you see how hard it is for some of us? We need HELP, not judgement!

Look... it's time to get real.... mark my words... WE WILL NEVER HAVE ANOTHER DEM IN OFFICE WITHOUT SOUTHERN SUPPORT! NEVER!

Have a little respect for those of us who LOVE where we live and want change. The southern Dems are TOUGH, we aren't moving away... we are FIGHTING for change!

The South has made strides... who do you think is doing it? WE ARE! The DEMS... who LOVE where they live.

OKay? Do you understand now?

[siliconefreak]

149. Florida

I would love to live in Florida, where I grew up, but the laws and culture there are very different from what I would call ideal.

I know what it's like to be surrounded by closed-minded Repugs. It ain't a happy situation - at least not for me. Some people can deal with it and even feel energized in an antagonistic setting, but not me. It wears me out. Luckily, we have California. :)

[Burma Jones]

153. Very Nice, Still.........................

In the top 25 states for "smartness", only three are southern. Virginia (including the very un-southern Northern Virginia), Maryland (barely southern) and North Carolina - and NC is number 25 and full of Yankee transplants in the Triangle.


The Bottom Ten States are:

Tennessee
Hawaii
California (thank you Prop. 13)
Alabama
Alaska
Louisiana
Mississippi
Arizona
Nevada
New Mexico


Link: http://www.morganquitno.com/edrank.htm


For the Factors considered: http://www.morganquitno.com/edfact04.htm


I realize this is but one evaluation, but it is indicative of the others.

So, while the South has come a long way, it still has a very long way to go.

However, I will admit I've never seen a more segregated place than Chicagoland.......

[mitchtv]

160. California has a great way to hit bottom

test non English speakers in English. Guaranteed failure-

[Burma Jones]

161. Ahhhh, didn't know that

[Hosnon]

163. Georgia cuts its legs out from underneath it, at least with

SAT scores. In many states, those not planning on going to college don't take the test - here, EVERYONE is encouraged to take it so it lowers the scores quite a bit.

Just glanced at the "Factors" list though, not sure if SAT was one of them.

[BooScout]

171. Thank you......

The fact that we have the Hope Scholarship here in Georgia encourages every student eligible to take the SATs and the scores do suffer because of it.....BUT because of the Hope Scholarship.....more of our students go on to college to continue their education.


Fact: In 2000 Georgia ranked 16th out of 50 for high school graduates going directly to college.

[quaoar]

216. Smartness rankings?

What moron dreamed that up?

I guess we're all just a bunch of dumb ole white-trash, trailer park rednecks who should be glad our intellectually superiors in Yankeeland deign to speak to us cousin-marrying idiots.

[ForrestGump]

222. Nice scores, but put it in the context of the United States being one of

the most pig-ignorant nations on the planet. In fact, given the wealth of information and resources available to Americans, the national level of ignorance is orders of magnitude worse than any other nation in world history.

Kinda evens out any alleged differences among states...

[AntiCoup2K4]

156. One serious question then....

And I ask it, because we all NEED to know the answer.

WHY, in God's name, if so much progress has taken place in the South in the last 40 years, are a large portion of the Southern population still so easily manipulated by the Chimp's phony "good ol boy act", and by the false "Christanity" doctrines of people like Falwell, Robertson, and Bob Jones.

Fear of gay weddings was an issue in 13 states in the last election. From my recollection, those states were all or mostly below the Mason-Dixon line.

Now don't call me a South basher for asking the question, because I'm not. I haven't been to the South, except for the Oklahoma panhandle and the western half of Texas, and that was over 20 years ago, so I honestly don't know the process of how people are thinking down there, I only see the results. And they aren't always good.

I would say though, that you guys have dominated politics for far too long though, and it's time us "Yankees" had another President. How about giving the Northwest a shot at it?

[Shell Beau]

157. Well Bill Clinton was from the south!! Bush wasn't!

[AntiCoup2K4]

165. Clinton was, and so was Jimmy Carter

My point is not that ALL "Southern" Presidents are bad, just that one region of the country should NOT dominate politics, let alone from both parties.

Take the 1992 election for example. You had 3 major candidates in that one, as Perot was a serious contender for a while. He was from Texas, Clinton from Arkansas, and Poppy claimed Texas residency (even though we all know he lives in Maine).

And in 2000... Gore and Junior both running as Southerners.

Even the 1996 election technically - since Bob Dole's home state of Kansas was a pro Confederacy territory. And he lives in NC now.

[Texasgal]

168. Here's your answer

Very easy:

Soon after the 2004 presidential election, maps started appearing all over the internet. Red and blue maps showed the distribution of states voting for Bush vs. Kerry, and soon even more detailed maps appeared showing county-by-county how the votes fell into the Bush/Kerry camps. Because many of the large, empty spaces of the American West and large stretches of rural lands went Republican, the overal effect was of a largely red country with bits of blue here and there. Some people with a point to prove pointed at these maps and declared that the country was overwhelmingly supporting Bush, except for some fringe areas.

The problem, of course, is that much of Kerry's support came from very densely populated areas - the major cities of the Northeast, the Great Lakes region and the West. These votes were more compact, so they took up less space on the map. In response to these attempts to distort the truth, some folks started creating cartograms - maps that instead distort physical reality, changing the shape and size of parts of maps to equalize population density and give an even representation of the votes for both candidates. Cartograms of the red and blue states, as well as all the counties started to appear, showing how the red areas of the United States were not nearly so dominant as the standard maps would imply.


Take a look at this map:



There's your answer.... not everyone in the South are heathen hicks, we are trying to make change. If we stop ( the good libs in the South ) you will never have another Dem in office. We need your help, we need your support, not your judgement..

[BooScout]

174. The heaviest Republican county in the Atlanta area....

...is populated by Northern transplants. It's called Cobb County and it's full of corporate transplants primarily from the North. So you tell me? Is it all the Northerners fleeing the snow to the sunny South that are contributing heavily to the Repukes.....at least in my neck of the woods? .....not saying that's the reason but you can't just dismiss it.

I would love to have the NW have a shot....who ya got? We need somebody damned good the next time around that's for sure.

[Modem Butterfly]

175. I live in Cobb County. Very few Yankees here, AFAICS

Most of the transplants seem to live up in Roswell and Alpharetta. In Cobb you get a lot of old money Southerners and good ol' boys.

[BooScout]

207. I agree about Roswell and Alpharetta......

....But East Cobb is Corporate Transplant Heaven. I do think most of the good old boys in Cobb are still over in West Cobb.

[Taverner]

186. Hmmmmm President Ron Wyden - I like that!

[GOPFighter]

159. Geesh...no need for the flame wars

The south has a bad reputation. Much of that reputation was earned years ago by people now dead. It's exhilarating to read Maddy's post about how hard a lot of caring people are working to turn that around. This is a story most of us never hear and it's important that we keep it in mind when we complain about the south.

That being said, my daughter (raised in the north) went to school in the south (4 years) and never wants to return. Too many felt the answer to every problem is force and violence. Too many felt guns were the only thing that kept society civil. Too many worshiped conservative, mean spirited theologies, and adamantly insisted that dissent equaled traitor.

It's great to know that it's not that way everywhere in the south, and I can't begin to describe my admiration and respect for liberals in the south who have the guts to speak out and openly support progressive causes. I would go so far as to say that southern liberals are probably the most dedicated and most effective liberals in all America.

[Hosnon]

162. Great post - no better beaches in the world than the Carolina Coast!

nt

[Burma Jones]

173. Ever been to Waikiki?

Or maybe San Tropez or Tahiti. Or even Southern California........

[Hosnon]

176. So Cal yes...all the rest no - however, I have been to many

in the Caribbean and Brazil...

And the Carolina coast still wins out for me.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

178. Ever been to Cape Cod National Seashore? Cape Ann?

NC beaches are nice too. But Cape Cod is gorgeous.

[mitchtv]

181. Long Island, Too

I love Cape Ann. Jersey shore

[Pithlet]

177. You shouldn't be ashamed

But my experiences living in the South don't match what you say. I've spent about equal time in both the north and the south, and have witnessed racism in both places, but it is more ingrained in the South, and more open. Yes, the south has made some progress, but everything isn't hunky dory as you seem to be implying. Never have I witnessed racism to the extent that I have in the South anywhere else in the country. They have made progress, but they still have a ways to go.

There are indeed many wonderful things in the south, and if I were to move today, as I fervently wish I could, there would be a lot of things I would miss. I've met a lot of wonderful people here. So much has come from the south that is invaluable to our culture. But, there are also bad things about the south, and to ignore it is folly. And I do not believe that acknowledging that is bashing the south. Assuming that someone from the south is a racist redneck is prejudice. Discussing the real issues of the south and the problems that do indeed still exist is not. And to pretend that everything is okay will only hurt the south. No further progress can be made if everyone pretends that no more progress is needed.

Race relations isn't the only problem in the south, as others have pointed out. My own personal experiences have been bad because I'm an atheist, and that has never been such an issue in my life as when I live in the south. The fact that I don't go to church is held against me here as it never was in any state north of the Mason Dixon. And that is a problem. I plan on moving before my children are of school age because I truly fear for my kids and what they'll face because they aren't Christian. I'm always asked what Church I go to, which leads to uncomfortable situations. I don't think that's a polite thing to ask a stranger, let alone to just assume someone is a Christian, but that is a common occurrence here. My own boss would always mention that someone at work was a good man/woman of God. It made me wonder what she thought of me as I've never mentioned a thing about my own religious beliefs or lack of./

I don't hate southerners, or southern culture. I hate the racism and prejudice that is still far too common here. There have been comments about how back stabbing and aloof northerners are from some southerner es in this thread (kind of ironic, I think) but my experiences, again, just don't bear that out. I recently took a trip to Chicago and people were just as friendly and open there. Walking through my in-laws neighborhood, people were out on their front lawns and every single one of them smiled and waved as I passed. And I don't even live there. No one even acknowledges me in my own neighborhood.

I'm glad your experiences have been wonderful, and I don't doubt them. Just know that that may not be the experience for everyone. And don't forget that while the south has come a long way and should be commended for that, that the fight isn't over. It isn't over anywhere in this country, and it certainly isn't in the south.

[Texasgal]

179. Are you doing anything to help change the

mindset?

Just curious.

[Pithlet]

182. This thread

appears to be about how much more the south has progressed beyond the rest of the country in racial equality - which has been achieved in total apparently - and how the north is still racist, and I posted that that hasn't been my experience. I don't see how posting my observations makes me obligated to toot my own horn, but I'll answer you anyway, the best I can in a short post:

Aside from working with progressive groups which I believe do more overall for racial equality, I have spoken out whenever someone just assumed I agreed with them when they made a racist statement because I'm white. Every time a person made a racists remark in my presence, I've let them know what I think. And I didn't do that at first, primarily because I was so shocked the first time it happened, but after that it was to be "polite". Well, fuck polite. I think too many of us don't say anything when stuff like that happens, and it is taken as tacit approval. And that goes for any area of the country. If every single one of us in the south and elsewhere made it known that we do not approve, I think that alone would go a long way. Too many bigots think that others think the way they do, and are just too chicken to admit it. And the expression on their face is always wroth it. They always bask down, every single time.

I'm not saying that there aren't racists in the north, or even that there are fewer of them. I'm saying that it is more open and accepted in the south, from my experience. And I do believe that stating that the problems in the south have vanished is wishful thinking that helps no one.

[Texasgal]

183. I thought the premise

of this thread is why someone was PROUD to be a Southerner, The OP stated that there has been strides made in the South, she is PROUD of that fact. SO am I... I am working to help change that mindset too. What's wrong with having a little pride?

Why can't people like you support us? Why do you feel the need to judge?

I see NOWHERE on this thread where someone said that " The problems in the south have vanished" If you see it, please point it out.... I'd like to address that.

[Modem Butterfly]

184. What's up with the attacks?

Come on, it's a big country, a big region full of a lot of people. Certainly there's room for other opinions.

[Texasgal]

189. Who's attacking?

???? I'm sorry... what do you mean?

[Modem Butterfly]

190. Um, you are.

Duh.

[Texasgal]

194. Where????

WHat are you talking about???

[Pithlet]

187. But I'm not judging!

Point to me where I've made a judgment against anyone. It is not making a judgment against any or all southerners to state that racism is still an issue in the south. It isn't judging any one individual that's for sure, and it certainly isn't painting all southerners with a broad brush. Why must the issues that happen here in the south, which I currently call home, and have for years, be verboten? I just don't see how that helps anything.

And, if this had just been an "I'm a proud Southerner" post, fine. But mention of the north, and how much worse it is is what prompted me to response, as well as statements about how the south has progressed to equality, and racism is no longer a huge issue. I do not feel that either statement is accurate, and I felt compelled to respond. I certainly wasn't judging the OP. I even stated that I was glad her experiences have been positive, and I felt no reason that she should be ashamed. I like the OP and enjoy her posts on DU. I just don't agree with some of the statements in her post.

[Texasgal]

193. I understand what you are saying...

But please... can you understand what it takes for people like me?

I worked my tail end off during the primaries and the Election, I am getting ready to go full force into even more voluntary work for the gubernatorial primaries as well.

We need your support, we don't need people consistently reminding us what they think about "red states" !!!

The OP said that we have mastered the art of tolerance, I am starting to believe her.

[Pithlet]

196. And I support and applaud people like you

I just don't' think that has anything to do with where you live geographically as far as the worth of what you've done. Which is why I don't understand the defensiveness when anyone rightfully criticizes the problems that DO exist. Talking about the problems of the south impugns you and the OP in no way. The OP stated that she lived in a south where black and white live in harmony. I stated that that hasn't been my experience living in the south. I'm speaking generally. I'm not saying that racially harmony is completely nonexistent, but I will not concede that equality has been achieved, because I just don't see it. I do not see how I judged or bashed in any way. I certainly haven't belittled the actions of you or the OP. I know that the OP has done a lot of work from her past posts, and I applaud it wholeheartedly. I certainly don't blame her for any of the problems I've perceived in the south.

Few of us at DU take it personally when anyone outside of the US criticizes our president and our foreign policy. I don't understand why some people in the south take it personally whenever the south is rightfully criticized for its problems that still exist. I don't support prejudice against anyone living in the south. But I don't think we have to keep quiet about the problems that do exist there. I think it is perfectly acceptable to disagree with someone who thinks that the south has its problems solved.

I want to add that I welcome anyone who wants to debate the issues of the south with me, or give me facts to prove me wrong. I just object to my posts being rejected out of hand as southern bashing. It isn't my intention to bash anyone.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

180. The biggest reason "the South" is such a hot button issue on DU, is

because the core stronghold/fortress of Republican electoral votes, according to their current, successful strategy since the Nixon years, is the South!

The South continues to be instrumental in delivering the White House to Republicans.

To be sure, we may have moved past that... crooked machines may now be the key source of Republican votes now.

And I would agree that the unsuccessful campaigns of Northeasterners have largely neglected the South and given it up as lost, the "grab the blue strongholds and try to steal a win in OH or FLA" strategy.

But the fact that the Southern states are so reliably Red is a huge problem for the nation politically and belies any rosy scenario painted.

I live in a monied suburb of Dallas, not exactly the same as Mississippi or Louisiana I know, but it's "the South". It's almost monolithically for Bush, and unapologetically narrow in its worldview. There are great liberal people like BouncyBall and fudgestripecookays here, but they are less representative of the region than the W'04 sticker/ribbon magnet folks driving around here.

It's troubling to me that someone like Jimmy Carter, who is culturally as much of a son of the South as anyone you could imagine, is probably one of the most reviled Presidents around here, I guess because he's not perceived as a "winner", whereas people worship the obvious phoney baloney carpetbagging Yankee currently occupying the White House as a god.

So yes, it's hard for many to get past this since the South plays a big part in our losing national elections and it's a political board. To be sure, it plays a big part when we win them, too.

[Taverner]

192. I hate to open a new can of worms but if Howard Dean won the nomination

...his strategy included a few southern states.

[Shell Beau]

195. Thank you!

[SmileyBoy]

185. Good for you. Do you want a cookie??

A wise man once said, "In silence, your good name triumphs over all the words in the world."

Don't be a typical Southerner and try to insecurely reinforce it with words. Humility is the best way to go.

[Shell Beau]

188. Yeah well you just made her point. "Don't be a typical

southerner". Please.... Well guess what, I am a typical southerner (which doesn't mean I am a repub, or a racist, or barefooted, or dumb, and so on and so on)and as she said, proud of it and I should be. Is being "a typical southerner" a bad thing?

[ksilvas]

205. Born in North Carolina, Lived all over South.

I Love the south. Love the smell, Love the passion, there is ignorance
and racism everywhere, I've lived out of the south for about a decade now.
Portland rednecks, Arizona Rednecks, Irish Rednecks, you name it, the
south ain't got no monopoly.

[tarkus]

209. I was born in NC and am in KY. I would trade these for the north any day.

But I am glad some people like the south. It would be terribly wasted space if no one lived there.

[brentspeak]

211. self-delete

del

[enigami]

210. Ya. What She Said

Missouri

[brentspeak]

212. There are two types of DUers who trash the South

1) Left-wing elitists who reside in places like Berkeley and Madison, and usually aren't even Democrats (usually they're Greens)

2) Freepers who infiltrate these boards, pose as Democrats, and purposefully behave like the ones described in 1). Why? To drive Southern Democrats away from the website.

Myself: I'm frustrated in the extreme that the Democratic leadership seems to have "given up" on the South. As a Blue Stater, I want to figure out a way to help my Southern Democrat brethren (and sisters).

[Bouncy Ball]

214. Dean would agree with you

and is on the same wavelength as you, thank goodness. I'm so glad we have a good party chair nowdays.

[Bouncy Ball]

213. I'm not proud. I'm not NOT proud.

My people have been in Texas too long to know anything else, so what's there to be proud or not proud about? It just IS. Living here is like breathing oxygen or putting food in your mouth. Just a fact of life, since before it was a state.

And I really don't give a shit what anyone thinks about Texas. It's just a place, like everywhere else is a place. It's got its good, it's got its bad. Some people hate living here and can't wait to get out, some people would never leave. Like anywhere else.

I don't even know if Texas is considered to be part of the South proper. But it's not exactly the southwest, either. Don't know what it is.

I do know one thing: idiotic hateful mouth-breathing freepers aren't going to run me off. And previously balanced people who seem to have lost their minds in the last several years aren't going to run me off.

And if someone from the north looks down on me, well, I think that's more of a reflection on them than me. If they feel sorry for the poor Democrat living in Texas, I just laugh. Nothing to feel sorry for me about. All my friends are liberals, I just had a fantastic time the other night at a kid's birthday party where every single adult was a flaming liberal. We had the BEST time. So no feeling sorry for me, besides, if I lived in a solid blue area, I'd never have any fun pissing off bush voters.