Keep your fucking cat out of my yard!!

[ZoCrowes]

Let me get this out of the way: I think animals rule. Cats, dogs, horses whatever.

However, it was the first nice day we have had in a while and I let my 17 year old Cocker Spaniel out onto our deck to warm her old bones. For being 17 the old girl is in great shape and will still bound around like a pup from time to time. She is probably one of the sweetest old dogs on the face of the planet. Anyway so I let her out and go back to reading my book when about 5 minutes later I heard Molly (my dog) barking. This is rare so I got check it out.I go outside to see a cat (domestic it had a brand spanking new collar on) swiping at Molly's nose with her claws and hissing. So I tried chasing the cat off and it tried to fucking SCRATCH me. Eventually, it ran off but not before nailing my dog in the nose and almost getting me too. There is NO EXCUSE for this kind of bullshit. If you have a pet that is aggressive KEEP IT ON YOUR OWN FUCKING PROPERTY!!

[democrat in Tallahassee]

1. sorry, cat lovers but I agree; cats are always stalking my bird feeders.

dogs have to be leashed why are cats allowed to roam?

[alarimer]

26. I don't know

Every cat I have had has been an indoor cat. I never let them outside no matter how much they want to go. It is better for them (I live near a busy street and I am sure my cat would someday be hit by a car- I lost one that way) and for me.

[TahitiNut]

33. (self-delete)

[TahitiNut]

36. IMHO, that shows you care for the animal AND your neighbors.

I'm a non-sectarian animal-lover. There's no way I'd permit any pet to roam loose. If I absolutely HAD to put my pet cat outdoors, I'd install cat-proof fencing. (Let's try to remember that a cat-run can be made just like a dog-run: enclosed on top.) As far as I'm concerned, people who irresponsibly let their pets roam loose demonstrate a disregard for both the pet's life and their neighbors' "peaceful enjoyment." It's both anti-social and anti-animal.

[BikeWriter]

44. Yours is a responsible and measured response, TahitiNut.

I cannot understand why anyone would assume we are supposed to peacefully tolerate the unwelcome intrusion of their animal on our property.

[ProfessorGAC]

83. Same Thing I Said

There are some responsibilities inherent with having a pet. My pets are MY pets. They are NOT the responsibility of the neighborhood. My dog is always on a leash, despite the fact that he would follow me without one. My cats never go outside. They're happy. I'm happy. My wife's happy. Purr-fect!
The Professor

[trogdor]

118. Mine stays inside, too.

We saw a pair of cardinals outside this morning. They're kind of rare in central New York.

[candy]

2. OMG--I was just talking Easter Sunday about the cats in my ----

neighborhood---they are really something.

I also have an old dog without 1/2 her teeth and totally deaf and there are so many cats roaming around I can't her her out back alone.

There are three of them,not feral,and they are well cared for but they are tough buggers. I know where they all live---they are buddies(when they are not fighting) and they are from three different homes.

Glad I'm not alone.

[Redstone]

3. And out of my yard, too.

We like birds. We feed them. Your cat comes around and tries to kill our birds, you and us, we got problems.

Keep your cats home.

Redstone

[autorank]

4. Cat was just being a cat...I commend you on a healthy dog but just

be grateful he only got a swipe. And you should be especially grateful the cat didn't fuck you up real good. Just stay inside from now on. Everything will be better if you accompany your pooch on sojourns in the yard. Peace.

[ZoCrowes]

10. Why the hell

should I accompany MY DOG onto MY DECK on MY PROPERTY?! If it is your pet that creates a problem then it needs to stay inside.

As much as I care for animals next time kitty trys it she will get a fucking .9mm round to the head...or a good smack with a wiffle ball bat. I feel guilty just killing bugs.

[JVS]

43. Right on!

[alarimer]

113. try a hose

it is at least nonlethal

[TahitiNut]

32. Unf*ckingreal.

:eyes:

[Vladimir]

52. I have to assume you are being sarcastic n/t

[DrGonzoLives]

122. If you're not being sarcastic

then, well, I can't say what I think.

[MrScorpio]

160. No fucking way

The cat (and its owner) was all wrong in this case

That dog had every right do be own his own deck without being molested by some cranky trespassing feline.

[RetroLounge]

5. Cat meet boot.

works for me...

RL

[Floogeldy]

21. I had a cat that was literally drop-kicked by some frat guys

We had to put it to sleep.

I hope you are kidding.

[RetroLounge]

24. of course I was.

I forgot the new smilie...

:sarcasm:

I had cats, and I never kicked them with boots. Sneakers worked fine...

RL

[Floogeldy]

27. You are a good person

B-)

[BikeWriter]

6. I've lost a Blue Jay and Mockingbird so far this spring I know of.

My garage smells like piss and my garden smells like cat shit. :(

[NorthernSpy]

92. are you baiting wildlife?

Do you have bird feeders?

If the answer is yes, you are creating the problem. You are creating a massive oversupply of food in order to draw prey species (birds) to a small area. This gives predators far readier access to the prey species than they would have under natural conditions.

In a different thread, another DUer remarked that bird feeders are really cat feeders. He's right. If the predation pattern that you've been seeing disturbs you, might want to consider removing any bait you may have strewn about.

[BikeWriter]

101. No, I have not created the problem. I have fruit trees, but no bird feeder

The problem is the neighbor who feeds all the stray cats in the neighborhood and attracts more strays to the free cat food in his open garage!

[NorthernSpy]

104. glad to hear it...

I've read way too many posts written by people who insist on leaving a mountain of sunflower seeds lying about, and then get all shocked and indignant when they see cats working the resulting avian wave.

:eyes:

Re the feral cats next door: could you possibly negotiate a relocation of the feral colony? It could be done, I think.

Barn cats are often welcome in small-scale farming areas because they can reduce some of the feed and crop losses caused by rodents. My folks are happy if they see a feral cat on their land for precisely that reason.

Also, one thing to consider is which of you was there first. If the woman and his cats were there when you moved in, then he might understandably be less receptive to changing the situation than if it were the other way around.



(edit: changed neighbor's gender to reflect the information in your post)

[BikeWriter]

107. There is no (0) negotiating with those people. I bought here...

twenty-five plus years ago. They've been there about ten. I have asked them politely to keep their cats from my yard, I have told them to keep their cats from my yard, and I have warned them to keep their cats from my yard. I'm going to take care of the problem myself.

[NorthernSpy]

108. and how are you going to do that?

I'm going to take care of the problem myself.

How?

[BikeWriter]

110. Havahart traps have been mentioned. I'll probably buy one...

and take them to a shelter. I've heard of people putting out antifreeze and shooting them, but I'd take it out on the owners before I'd ever be cruel to the animals.

[trogdor]

119. Daisy BB guns are usually effective.

[BikeWriter]

134. I'd rather not resort to harming them if I can avoid it.

[autorank]

7. Is this what it looked like?

[ZoCrowes]

11. THATS IT

DEMON DEVIL CAT!! EL DIABLO AAAAAAAAAH

[autorank]

16. I knew you'd crack!

:evilgrin: :rofl:

Now leave that cat alone or little Pentagram Kitty will visit you in your sleep...

[Floogeldy]

8. Maybe get some soap and water in a spray bottle (nothing harmful)

To teach the cat a lesson so it will think twice about returning.

You realize, of course, it will be impossible for people to keep cats out of your backyard unless they are constantly leashed, which would not be good for the cat. I mean it would not be good for the cat if the people were leashed. :)

B-)

[Sparkly]

9. Cats don't DO fences.

They live to expand their "territory."

Having said that, the only cat I have now is an indoor wussy fraidy-cat who jumps at her own reflection, cowers in fear of spiders, and suffers delusions of princesshood -- fussing relentlessly for her morning "salmon dinner" from me, afternoon attention from my piano students, and evening "nip" from my husband (aka "Tigger's Connection").

She won't be bothering you. But for outdoor cats, "It's what cats do." There must be some way for you to establish your property as yours and not that cat's, but I'm not sure what it is.

[ZoCrowes]

12. It was not a backyard fence it was s frickin elevated deck

that is off of my bedroom.

[Sparkly]

13. Umm, cats don't do "property rights?"

:shrug:

[ZoCrowes]

17. Yeah but OWNERS do

keep your fucking cat indoors if you are not going to keep an eye on it.

[Nicole]

14. Out of my yard too please

I'm tired of cats using my flower beds as litter boxes & my bird feeders as diners.

[derby378]

15. We keep our cats indoors all the time

They're both rescues - they know what it's like to be cold, wet, and alone at night. Not really looking forward to reliving that experience.

One of our cats is now sleeping on a little head pillow. I think they like being indoor cats.

[autorank]

18. Well, if ZoCrowes is at your front door with a 9mm or whiffle bat...

...don't let him in. Kitty wouldn't like that.

[ZoCrowes]

22. Only if it is the foul demon feline from hell

that little bastard will feel the wrath of my whiffle!!

I actually love cats cept for the one who attacked my dog. And my cousins have two devil cats that despise me. Any time they hear a mans voice they freak out and try to attack us.

[autorank]

31. Man, those are two cousins I definately woudn't kiss. Man hating cats!

That's some sick stuff. Maybe the cousins get the wiffel! The more I think about the more I think your dog was wronged.

[soothsayer]

19. Your house is in its territory. Better move! lol

[meisje]

20. Catch-em-alive traps are cheap at harborfrieight.com

catch it and take it to the shelter

[BikeWriter]

29. Those traps are expensive. It would be simpler for everyone if...

owners kept their cats indoors.

[radwriter0555]

48. They're not expensive, they're $50.00. The Havaharts are good too for

catching cats.

Sometimes relocation for nuisance cats really IS the answer.

[BikeWriter]

53. I may have to buy one. I suspect the cat owners won't be happy...

with where I choose to relocate them to.

[radwriter0555]

159. I have heard of people who drive a few miles and across some very busy

roads to very nice nieghborhoods for the better kitties...

Sometimes the shelter is fine too.

[BikeWriter]

161. Yep, but I'd rather they had a chance at adoption rather than dump them.

[Catchawave]

46. Local Animal Controls usually loan Hav-a-hart traps

for free. We have cat leash laws here, which means they can be "arrested" :)

[BikeWriter]

54. I've been on a waiting list for one for ten years.

[EFerrari]

68. Are your intruders pets or ferals?

Because if they're ferals or lost cats, you can call a local rescue group and they'll trap them for you.

[BikeWriter]

70. If they're the neighbors they'll just give them back, won't they?

The neighbors must not keep any inside, but they keep food available for strays in their garage year round.

[EFerrari]

73. They wouldn't necessarily just give them back.

Different groups have different philosophies but, the best ones are ALL against letting cats roam. And feeding strays is a terrible idea. The idea is to trap them, treat them and place them if possible. With RESPONSIBLE people in a safe environment. (Rolling eyes.)

[BikeWriter]

75. I've seen cats lounging all over their yard, and they all prowl here.

They spray and defecate on anything left outside, including my vegetable garden and flower beds. The neighbor had the gall to yell at me accusing me of shooting his cats. I invited him into the public street to discuss it rationally, but he declined.

[EFerrari]

76. I would call a rescue group. Those conditions aren't good

for anyone on involved. And there's nothing like a riled up CatLady to get results.

Maybe they can trap your neighbor for you :)

[BikeWriter]

78. I wish they would! They'd probably spay neuter and release him, though.

I'd still have to put up with his cats.

[EFerrari]

163. I'm serious though. Although nonCatpeople might not believe it at first

reputable cat rescue people are adamant about cats being indoors.

If you want a referral to a good group who might be able to help, I'll be happy to dig.

We know that cats are not safe outdoors. And we'd never put out food for "strays" unless we were trying to lure them into a trap. Where they might have a shot at a life that works.

So.

[BikeWriter]

164. I really am encouraged to hear that, thank you....

I've raised various animals for most of my life, exotic birds, aquarium fish, purebred dogs, horses and mules. Most of the people in those animals have a strict ethic they go by. I've been very disappointed recently in some pet fancier's willingness to allow their animals to roam.

[RagingInMiami]

23. Before you reach for the .9mm

Use a slingshot or a water hose. It will draw less attention.

[crispini]

25. .

[MidwestMomma]

39. ..

I feel your pain. :)

[Kathy in Cambridge]

28. Use a squirt gun or water gun to shoo him/her away

a few blasts with a supersoaker and the cat will stay away!

[radwriter0555]

49. The hose works even BETTER, with a longer reach.

Love watching em RUN.

[TahitiNut]

57. The owners or their cats?

In justice, I'd hope it's the former. Therein lies the conundrum. If any person were to deliberately let loose most any other kind of animal that posed a danger or public nuisance, they'd be subject to prosecution - and the animal would be 'fair game.'

[radwriter0555]

74. eh I don't want to hurt anyone... but a squirt of water does the job. It

works on pigeons too, by the way... if any of you have nuisance neighbors who insist on feeding pigeons, and those nasty things lurk nearby, a high pressure nozzle and a blast water a few times chases them off for a very long time.

[Robeson]

30. Before you pull out the .9mm, use a squirt gun with water.....

...that usually does the trick....

[Donailin]

34. Simple solution.

Get a water gun, preferably one of those huge monster jaunts that shoot a gallon at a time and can reach three hundred feet.

Cats hate water.

I used a small one to train my cat to keep off the counter, my bed, dining table etc. He doesn't DARE jump up on these surfaces now. I'm tellin ya, it works.

[BikeWriter]

37. So we're supposed to stalk around our yards after cats at all hours?

When I had dogs in my back yard I had to shovel up scattered remains of cats more than once. It's a damned shame their owners didn't care enough to keep them up.

[Donailin]

40. yeah sure why not?

hey, thou halt not find fault in the foodchain. Your dog eats my cat who ate the neighbors bunny who at the other neighbors tomatoes in the garden.

It's all good. <g>

[BikeWriter]

41. Maybe I'll just get more dogs. They kept the yard clear of cats.

[autorank]

35. ZoCrowes, "Say hello to my little friend!"

[Robeson]

38. Now THAT would be a pet.....

[likesmountains 52]

42. My dog nailed my next door neighbor's cat under my bird feeders yesterday.

She had the cat on the ground, in her mouth and I was afraid she was going to kill it, but the cat jumped over the fence and went home. I have been chasing the cat away from my bird feeders for a year, so I thought maybe that near death experience would scare him off for good. Guess who was under the feeders this morning licking her paws? GRRR. I love cats, I own two of them but they stay in the house.

[Bridget Burke]

45. Have you spoken to your neighbors?

My own cats are indoors only. Good for them & for the environment.

Probably none of us here at DU are the guilty parties.

[BikeWriter]

56. Excuse me. There are a number here who have free ranging cats.

They'll tell you: "It's natural for them to roam free!" Yes, in Africa it is!

[EFerrari]

58. Cats shouldn't be out at all. Bunchers bag them and sell them

to labs.

[BikeWriter]

60. Yep, tell that to the cat owners. Cats often live short lives outside. ;-(

[EFerrari]

63. Acturally, BikeWriter, I'm a cat fosterer and do tell

anyone who will listen. People in general do seem to be getting a bit smarter though. I used to let mine out but, not any more. And my guys are just fine with it!

On edit: And the group I work for will not adopt out to people who let their cats out. We make 'em sign a contract AND pass a b.s. test. :hi:

[BikeWriter]

69. Good, thank you! Cats are one more stress in my life I do not want.

[radwriter0555]

47. I AGREE. I use the water hose on cats in my yard... on stray dogs too.

People should be more responsible with their cats. My nieghbors damaged my car, WITH the car cover on it. The little piece of shit crawled under the cover to sleep on the car for a few weeks and totally scratched up the door. It will cost me several hundred dollars to fix AND I'm selling it, SO THANKS, cat lovers who can't be responsible.

[demnan]

50. It's the opposite for me

As soon as I put Pad Thai out in his enclosed kitty walk and get the aged Lily coaxed out on the patio the Jack Russell Terriers or the Pit Bulls get unleashed and my poor cats have to go inside. The dogs' owners are not to be found and the animals are bounding about scaring and chasing my cats. And those Jack Russell Terriers are small but fast!

I find it highly unusual for a cat to aggressively go up and attack a dog on his own deck. None of mine have ever been so stupid, so I can't speak to brain damaged owners or cats.

[BikeWriter]

55. Call a dog catcher. They can catch dogs.

[DelawareValleyDem]

51. I learned at an early age never to let pets out alone

I spent one summer at a kid at my uncle's farm, and he would always let his pets roam free. One day his cat came home with a massive head wound. Vet said it probably had been kicked by a deer (likely cause the cat was known to stalk fawns.) I've had several types of pets but never let them go unwatched.

[Catchawave]

132. My doxie's never unsupervised in the yard, day or night,

...we have hawks, eagles and owls, oh my! I just would never take a chance she looks like a large yummy rat from their bird's eye view, though doubt they could lift her!

[MissMillie]

59. My cat stays indoors--where it is safe

from disease, predators, cars, and mean neighbors.

[BikeWriter]

62. This neighbor thanks you. It's not that we're mean, we want our rights...

respected, too. :)

[Beausoir]

64. Mine are indoors, too.

Always have been. I love them too much to let them wander. Traps, poisons, other cats and dogs all pose risks.
They are clean and healthy and they sleep on my bed.

Definitely try the water thing. It will work.

[crispini]

61. Too bad Elad didn't add this smiley:

[BikeWriter]

65. You're probably right. Those who want to leave their cats out will.

[bearfan454]

66. My neighbors have a cat factory.

They dig up the flower bed and shit in it.

[Redstone]

71. So why is it that if your DOG went and dug up

the neighbor's garden, you'd be in a whole world of trouble, but when a CAT does it, the owners feel justified in shrugging and saying "well, that's just how cats are?"

Redstone

[BikeWriter]

72. Mine, too. :-(

[jswordy]

67. KILL IT! Cats are evil.

[DS1]

77. If another DUer were to post that his/her cat was shot today, as

has happened before, this place would be dipping the pitchforks in oil and lookin for a lynching of the shooter.

Don't shoot the cat, someone might come blast you in retaliation. Personally, I'd gut ya, first.

[BikeWriter]

79. Would you explain why the cat owner is not equally responsible...

...as the horrible person who harmed their kitty?

[DS1]

80. I can't believe I just read that.

[BikeWriter]

81. You did. A pet owner is responsible for protecting their pet from danger..

There are many dangers in any neighborhood. Dogs, spilled antifreeze, cars, and irate neighbors.

[Medium Baby Jesus]

85. Don't waste your time. n/t

[BikeWriter]

86. Saying pet owners are responsible for the safety of their pets...

is not totally a waste of time. Most know it. Some get the idea after their pets have suffered. :(

[NorthernSpy]

94. and bird-lovers are responsible...

... for what happens when they bait wildlife to within convenient viewing distance -- which also happens to be within easy reach for predator species.

Feeding the birds amounts to baiting wildlife for ones own pleasure. And the people who do it must assume responsiblity for the consequences of their actions.


(edot: fixed typo)

[BikeWriter]

102. I do not bait wildlife. The song birds in my yard are all native...

The cats in my yard are not!

[NorthernSpy]

105. other people certainly DO, though...

... and if those people have a problem with kitties staking out the birdfeeder, then they should consider which means more to them: birds, or their own access to birds as things to look at.

[BikeWriter]

115. ...or a means to remove the alien predators.

[DS1]

127. Song birds!

AHHH

:woohoo: :hide: :woohoo:

[blindpig]

106. the predator in question is an invasive species

they don't belong in our environment, their potential prey have not evolved to deal with them. I do not grudge the Cooper and Sharp-shinned Hawks the birds they take. Perfectly natural.

[NorthernSpy]

109. cats are no more unnatural than BAITING WILDLIFE is!

Go on -- tell me how thoughtful, all-providing Mother Nature just happens to place cracked corn in cute little receptacles right outside people's kitchen windows.

:eyes:



(edit: sp. Need more coffee.)

[BikeWriter]

116. Providing food for native wildlife is nature friendly. Allowing an alien..

predator to eat them is not!

[NorthernSpy]

123. if bird feeders are "nature friendly", then so are cats

If you lard a small area with an unnatural concentration of food, then you disrupt nature and create new hazards. Period.

Bird feeders increase the birds' exposure to non-predator dangers such as automobiles and windowglass, and to non-cat predators such as squirrels.

In addition to creating rich hunting opportunities for predators of all sorts, feeders are a superb mechanism for increasing disease transmission among birds.

On the other hand, cats preferrentially take the sick, the slow, and the stragglers, because these are easier to catch. If bird feeders are "nature friendly" because birds like the rich food they provide, then cats are themselves nature-friendly because they clean up the sick, grounded birds who would otherwise spread more disease.

[Redstone]

124. Good God, now we're bad people for FEEDING THE BIRDS???

Not to sound peevish, but is there ANYTHING that anyone does, that doesn't provoke an "it's wrong for you to do that" lecture around here?

Nothing personal...

Redstone

[NorthernSpy]

129. I want the cat-haters to consider the implications of their own actions...

... before they ascend to their (rather precarious) pirch up on the lofty heights of their "environmental" high horse.

Actually, as far as anyone can tell, neither the birdfeeders nor the cats are likely to "destroy" the bird population in North America.

Runaway development is the real problem. The panic over killer kitties is just a side-show -- environmental hypochondria in the face of actual disease.

[BikeWriter]

140. Cats did destroy two birds this year in my yard who were happily...

coping with people being in their environment.

[NorthernSpy]

143. "happily coping with people being in their environment"

Hee hee! Yeah, those bird were happy with you being around. That's why they came when you called, and nestled sweetly in your hair...

Really, man! How would you know whether the birds are "happy" with your presence, or just tolerating you for the corn?

[BikeWriter]

146. They stayed in the yard when I'd come out and run cats away from...

their nests. I've never fed them corn.

[BikeWriter]

136. Yes, or for defending them from alien predators.

[BikeWriter]

128. Cats are an a-l-i-e-n pest in the wild here.

[NorthernSpy]

130. who you callin' an "a-l-i-e-n pest", Mr. Old World Hominid?

:eyes:

[BikeWriter]

133. Pardon me! My Cherokee ancestors may have come across...

from Asia but they were here before cats.

[NorthernSpy]

137. your Cherokee ancestors...

I swear, I knew what you were going to say before you said it.

Every time I point out the vastly, overwhelmingly, damn-near-exclusively Old World provenance of America's non-Mexican human population, whoever I point it out to promptly pipes up with something very similar.

Some day, I'll firgure out why that is. For now, I'll just be puzzled.

[BikeWriter]

141. Good, be puzzled, but keep your cat out of my yard!

[NorthernSpy]

145. my cat ain't in your yard

When he was a stray, I suppose he was in many people's yards, but his days of danger are over.

Thank God no one thought to put a bullet in him back then, lest New England run out of chickadees.

:eyes:

[BikeWriter]

149. If someone allows their child...

to wander unsupervized it's child neglect, right? How is it any different to allow a pet to wander unsupervized?

[NorthernSpy]

150. I watch my cat like a hawk

Since he's been with me, he's never been outside without me being right there with him. He comes when I call him, and walks by my side (typical for a Siamese). It's a dangerous world, and I don't allow him to wander. He is a marvel, and I can scarcely imagine life without him.

So thank you, World, for not blowing my cat to bits with a shotgun back when he didn't have a home.

[BikeWriter]

151. Good for you for being responsible for him! I'm the same way...

with my animals, whether they be horses, dogs, or whatever. Now, my question to you was if someone allows their child to wander unsupervized it's child neglect right? How is it any different to allow a pet to wander unsupervized?

[NorthernSpy]

153. depends on the animal, and depends on the setting

There are many variables. The dangers the particular setting imposes on the animal is a factor, and the nature of the dangers the animal imposes on humans and other animals is another factor.

I don't much care whether someone's (fully vaccinated) basset hound wanders remote farm country to his heart's delight; I most certainly DO care if someone's pack of pitbulls wander the school playground looking for little humans to play with...

[BikeWriter]

155. My neighborhood...

is getting more dangerous by the minute. My neighbors have been warned before they're endangering their pets. I'd say that is neglect, wouldn't you?

[blindpig]

121. Felis domesticus is native to the Old World, very unnatural.

considering the amount of forage we have denied wildlife with our activities and artifacts a little supplementry feeding is not out of line. Do you have a problem with maintaining our native biota?

What exactly is your problem?

[NorthernSpy]

125. Most of America's population: native to the Old World, very unnatural.

The wildlife do not need you or your cracked corn. They need your absence.

They need you to keep your distance and leave them alone.

Persecuting cats does nothing other than make selfish humans feel all environmentally "virtuous". Only in the most fragile and compromised environments would the absence of cats make any appreciable difference in whether bird species go extinct or not.

The war for wildlife hinges on the question of whether humans can find some way to tell themselves no when they get ready to build yet another WalMart or gigantic exurbia subdivision.

[blindpig]

148. well seeing as the human population is going nowhere soon,

unless georgie pushes The Button, we can still mitigate the problem as best we can. And that includes excluding invasive species from the environment.

Feel virtuous? Please, I'm a little too aware for that to occur.

Extinction doesn't usually happen overnight. First a species is more or less common. Then it becomes uncommon. Then rare. Then it is gone. Forever.

Of course human numbers and activities are the primary problem, invasive species are just one aspect of that.

BTW, cats don't require bird feeders in order to prey on birds. They can do just as well anyplace, anytime.

So let me get this straight, it's my fault because your invasive species comes on my property to kill birds?
(almost makes want me want to use one of those goofy smilies)

[NorthernSpy]

152. the hominids are too inconsiderate to leave...

... me included. I'm not going anywhere. Neither is anyone else. I recognize that.

Extinction doesn't usually happen overnight. First a species is more or less common. Then it becomes uncommon. Then rare. Then it is gone. Forever.

And I'm telling you that over nearly all of North America, the presence of cats is not even close to being the deciding factor in this equation, and that cats can even mitigate some of the drawbacks of unnatural practices such as birdfeedering (eg, heightened disease transmission).

BTW, cats don't require bird feeders in order to prey on birds. They can do just as well anyplace, anytime.

False. It's a lot harder to catch a chickadee that is sitting eighty feet up a spruce, eating seeds out of the cones, than one that is getting his meals out of a bird feeder within a few feet of the ground. Also, it's a lot easier to bag prey that are unusually concentrated in a single area, rather than spread out.

So let me get this straight, it's my fault because your invasive species comes on my property to kill birds?

You're responsible for creating the animals' equivalent of an attractive nuisance which endangers, in a number of ways, those that are lured by it.

[BikeWriter]

154. Your statement is all circular reasoning.

based on a number of assumptions. Persons allowing a pet to run wild are endangering their pet. They are also endangering the health of their neighbors and the native wildlife. Their animals may invade the privacy of their neighbors.It's a morally indefensible position.

[blindpig]

156. you obstinately refuse to take responsibility for your critter

and throw the blame elsewhere. Nice.

You are not much of an observer if you don't think that cats can stalk and hunt outside of a feeder situation.

"Cats can even mitigate............." WTF are you talking about?

This hard-on you have for birdfeeders is unique, is there some history there?

[NorthernSpy]

157. As I've posted, my own cat does not roam

And the fact that your neighbor is responsible for the consequences of his actions (letting his cats roam) hardly abolishes your responsibility for the results of YOUR actions (luring the pretty widdle birdies). Determining responsibility isn't a zero-sum game, as convenient as it might be for you if it were.

You are not much of an observer if you don't think that cats can stalk and hunt outside of a feeder situation.

Who said anything of the kind? I've pointed out that birdfeeders increase the birds' exposure to cats and other predators and make the likelihood of being taken as prey much greater.

"Cats can even mitigate............." WTF are you talking about?

I've explained that feeders can increase likelihood of disease transmission among birds, and I've also pointed out that sick birds are easier for cats to catch. When a cat catches a diseased bird, that bird is no longer able to spread disease to other birds.

This hard-on you have for birdfeeders is unique, is there some history there?

A question better asked of you, since you're the one who likes them thangs, no?

I've pointed out that while both cats and birdfeeders can pose dangers for birds, neither cats nor birdfeeders are likely to tip North America's bird population toward destruction.

[blindpig]

158. ok

any time you concentrate animals the chance of disease transmission does increase, however the improved health engendered by increased caloric intake may well mitigate the ravages of disease. Takes a lot of fuel to keep to high metabolisms going.

Cute baby talk. If you think I'm some sort of dippy twit come snake hunting with me sometime, we might see some pretty widdle eastern diamondbacks.

You know, I'm pretty well read on this stuff and I've not seen your arguments elsewhere, I'd ask for some documentation but I weary of this.

[BikeWriter]

162. Thank you, Pard. Your posts have been informative and helpful. :-)

[BikeWriter]

111. Thank you!

[BreweryYardRat]

91. Same here...

...except replace "gut" with "flay alive".

Seriously, do not shoot the cat. I know how annoying they can be-I've had them, and I love them, but they are a pain in the ass sometimes-however, there's a better way. Soak it with a supersoaker a few times (if you must), and tell your damn neighbor to keep the kitty inside.

Simple, effective, and it keeps people, who, like me, are hyper-protective of animals, from doing incredibly nasty stuff to ya as payback for harming their cat.

[BikeWriter]

97. My neighbor has been asked politely to keep his cats from my yard...

He has been told to keep his cats from my yard, and he has been warned to keep his cats from my yard. Their safety is not my responsibility or concern anymore. I just want rid of them.

[ProfessorGAC]

82. It Wasn't My Cat!

Guaranteed! Neither of my cats have ever been outside for any reason, other than a car ride to the vet for their shots.

My wife and i have had 8 cats in our 25 years together and none of them have ever been outside. I agree people need to be more responsible if they want cats.
The Professor

[BikeWriter]

84. Thank you, Sir!

[barb162]

87. I have a next door neighbor who thinks nothing of letting her 2 brats

and large dog play in my yard. I think she considers herself a perfect mother with perfect children (haha). As a matter of fact I think she encourages her snots playing here as they can trample up my gardens, shrubs, etc., and not hers. I have told her in no uncertain terms more than once to quit it already and start monitoring her kids and that dog. It will be a police matter soon I think.

[BikeWriter]

89. It may be child neglect. File a complaint and it will be investigated.

[Starlight]

100. I have an issue with the cat who lives across the street.

He comes over to my place, jumps up on the window sill, scares the hell out of my cats, then pees on the window and on the side of the building. :grr: As if that wasn't bad enough, he's a tortoiseshell and looks a lot like my cats so all the other neighbors in my apartment complex blame my cats for his mischief. :mad:

[barb162]

112. I have a similar problem. I have 4 indoor cats and any stray cats

like to look and sniff around here. There is one stray (or someone's cat) who actually will sit about 5 feet away from the window and drives my second oldest male CRAZY! By the way, I have a 6 year old tortie and torties are true nutcases, aren't they (the smartest sneakiest little shits). I then have neighbors thinking that whatever stray is around must be my cat. There is also a siamese around here that some owner lets out and he likes to sit in my yard checking out the action. The last time one of my cats got away from me was last April but people think that any cat waltzing around is my cat. That next door neighbor of mine gets upset about the cats around here but obviously has no concern when she takes her 70 pound dog into my back yard to do its duty. The cats being around or owners letting their cats take a walk on my property somehow doesn't bother me. My neighbor's kids trampling my gardens, throwing balls and frisbees around and their dog doing its duty here, etc., drive me absolutely nuts. I checked on the price of a 6' fence, $5000. I am going to try to force her to put up a fence or a dog (or a kid run) run or something. I can't figure out why I should be spending thousands when she is permitting the daily trespassing. Oh well...I hope it doesn't have to involve the cops as I don't want it to escalate.

[pres2032]

88. I can't believe that this discussion is back again

the original was a lesson in insanity and this one is turning out to be no different.

If you don't like cats, deal.

If you have cats, just watch out for them is all.

end of discussion, move on.

[BikeWriter]

90. Have you read the first post? Some pet owners are not protecting their...

pets. I see little difference between that and child neglect. It is a valid topic of discussion, though a volatile one.

[pres2032]

93. do you remember what you said in your thread

when you not-so-subtly advocated the death of all cats? so what is your REAL aim? that cats be "protected" or that they disappear all together? Face it, this discussion has become a cat lovers vs. cat haters fight and you sir by your posts very clearly come down on the cat haters side and that is really clouding whatever intelligent discussion may be had.

[BikeWriter]

99. I've never advocated the death of all cats. Those being cared for...

by a responsible owner are just fine with me. I like scratching an ear and hearing a purr with the best of them.

[jus_the_facts]

95. 'CAN'T BELIEVE A DISCUSSION IS BACK?'

....oh the goddamn INSANE HUMANITY of it ALL.... :banghead:

:eyes:

[-..__...]

96. Take up falconry as a hobby.

Shouldn't be too difficult training the bird to prey on kittens/cats.

[kodi]

98. i fenced my enter 1.5 acres because of just that crap

with 6 dogs, i wanted to be sure that my animals were not a problem in the community, so i put up a 5 foot high fence that runs about 1,200 feet around the property. now, my neighbor has a dog who constantly runs my fence line pissing off my dog pack and they have attempted to get at the other dog by digging under the fence (which they have never done before). i am about one step away from opening my gate and releasing the hounds of hell on it.

people are just so fucking ignorant about this sort of thing.

[BikeWriter]

103. I've got five and six foot tall fences, but that won't stop a cat. ;-(

[Rambis]

114. My neighbors cats pee in my garage I love it!

NOT! Pissed on a tarp on top of a couch that was there for less than 2 days. I managed to get the tarp off without spilling it on the couch but WTF!

[BikeWriter]

117. They've ruined all the perishables in my garage. Payback is coming.

[Rambis]

120. Make sure it is on the owners

Cats piss that is what they do. I told my neighbors about it and said if one of them get the kids bike carrier that will cost them 150fitty bucks. Just so they are aware it was going on not that they have put the cats inside but...

[BikeWriter]

126. If they're anything like my neighbors they won't put them inside...

Then you'll have to review your options. In the meantime, I hope none of your family gets ringworm, cat scratch fever, or any other malady from them!

[Catchawave]

135. The garage visits are another danger to cats....

..I've heard too many stories where they get locked in garages as the family leaves for a 2 week vacation....very sad.

[BikeWriter]

144. I've heard of them being locked in cars, too. I doubt you'd ever get...

the odor out!

[MissMillie]

138. would you feel any better if it were squirrels or raccoons?

Maybe you should close your garage.

[BikeWriter]

147. Maybe it's already closed and they get in anyway.

[zanne]

131. Keep your &^*#@!! KIDS out of my yard!

I have three cats that one of my neighbors recently complained about. It seems one of them pooped on his lawn. Meanwhile, I can't keep a garden in my yard because the neighborhood kids get a kick out of walking on the flowers and overturning the flowerpots. I had to disable my doorbell because the kids keep ringing it. Every day, I have to walk around my house and pick up a bagfull of garbage. Now, who has more right to complain? Me with my three cats who might poop on somebody's lawn, or my neighbors with kids? (By the way, I have never complained about the kids).

[AngryAmish]

139. I guess I'm lucky

We have a lot of kids in the neighborhood and they are nothing but nice. I let them play in my yard (and occasionally throw the football around with them myself). The kids are polite and make life fun around here.

[MissMillie]

142. I used to live near a convenience store

One day I came home from work and went upstairs to change out of my work clothes. As I'm standing in my bedroom, changing, I see out the window a couple of kids walking past the house after a trip to the store.

One of them dropped an empty potato chip bag on my front lawn.

I opened the window and asked, "What time does the landfill open in front of your house?" The kid said "I don't have a landfil in front of my house." I responded, "Neither do I."

He picked up his rubbish before walking away.

I found the same rubbish down the street in front of the neighbor's house as I walked later that evening.