Italian Scholars Probe the Bible's Lighter Side

[Placebo]

Humor in the Bible? Scholars say the Old and New Testament are riddled with humorous references and aim to set the record straight at a three-day congress beginning Monday, "Laughter and Comedy in Ancient Christianity."

There's the tale from Luke's Gospel of Zaccheus, a diminutive and despised tax collector who, eager to see Jesus at a busy gathering, is forced into the attention-grabbing indignity of scrambling up a tree.

Or the patriarch Isaac, whose name comes from the Hebrew word for laughter because of the joy and disbelief his birth brought to his aging parents, Abraham and Sarah.

These witticisms may not have modern readers rolling on the floor. But scholars of Christian literature and theology at a three-day conference in Turin on "Laughter and Comedy in Ancient Christianity" insist the Old and New Testaments are riddled with humor and clever wordplay.

More...

[VegasWolf]

1. That's true, the bible says that eating lobster is an abomination. I

find that hilarious!

[Ian David]

2. Well, it IS to the lobster!

[DARE to HOPE]

13. My Irish friend says that lobsters were fed only to the poor...

...and the orphanages until more recently. They, and the seaweed that grew nearby, were once considered garbage food, scavenging food, until some enterprising New York Irish started selling them as delicacies in NYC around the turn of the 20th c. So she tells me. It is only recently that we are seeing people now add seaweed into the western diet (as in salt shakers.)

[Redstone]

19. Salmon too, and chestnuts...

Before the Blight, peple used to feed chestnuts to the pigs, there were so many of them.

Redstone

[Lisa]

21. in the 1930s, west coast kids were ashamed to have smoked salmon

... in the sandwiches they took to school. That was "poor people" (or even worse, "Indian") food. The rich families could afford store-bought stuff, like bologna and jelly!

My folks were of Japanese extraction. Their parents would send them out to pick seaweed, or net shrimp so the family could have tempura for supper. Of course their Anglo-Saxon neighbours thought this was really weird ("eating bait") but they probably ate better than most other families in the area, during the Depression. And of course this type of cuisine is now associated with upscale "fusion cuisine" Vancouver restaurants.

[Placebo]

22. One of life's little ironies...

no doubt. :)

[Joe Chi Minh]

34. That headline is hilarious, Lisa!

My grandfather, who was a farmer, used to feed corn-on-the-cob to the cattle. But smoked salmon, and DAREtoHOPE's lobster beats it hands down.

[Lisa]

3. And, now, from Nazareth ...

"And they brought him on a stretcher a man who was sick of the palsy. And they cried unto him: "Maestro, this man is sick of the palsy." And the Lord said: "If I had to spend my whole life on a stretcher, I'd be pretty sick of the palsy, too!"


And they were filled with joy. And cried out: "Lord, thy one-liners are as good as thy tricks. Thou art indeed an all-round family entertainer."

http://www.rowanatkinson.org/nazareth.htm


I've always wondered how many of Jesus's remarks were meant as ironic asides or hyperbole, for teaching purposes -- not intended to be taken literally. (The one about the camel/rope end through the eye of a needle, for example.) However, some of his followers today seem to have no sense of humor when I ask them about this. How ironic.

[Sequoia]

8. The eye of the needle was a small peekaboo hole in the city

walls that were built back in those days. I used to find the "Good News for Modern Man" quite funny when Jesus would tell a parable and the diciples would ask him seeminly stupid questions about what he had just said. Jesus always had a come-back answer that was funnier than the King James Version of the same story.

Here's a little song I learned in Sunday School about the little tax man in the tree. Ready? Okay, here it goes:

Zaccius was a wee little man
And a wee little man was he.
He climbed up in the Sycamore tree
For the Lord he wanted to see.

And as the Saviour passed that way
He looked up in the tree.
(talk now)And he said, Zaccius! You come down,
(singing again) For I'm going to your house for tea.
For I'm going to your house for tea.

(more like wine or beer in those days)

[Joe Chi Minh]

11. Apparently,

that "peekaboo hole in the wall" was a medieval innovation, Sequoia.

[Journeyman]

10. Ancient mid-eastern cities were surrounded by walls. . .

and the gates closed and locked at sundown. If someone came to the city late, they could only enter through a small side door, which was low and narrow, so that anyone entering through it could not bring much with them and would emerge from the passageway bent over and in single file. This was for protection of the city, to keep marauders and other ne'er do wells from entering the city at night.

Because the door was so small and narrow, it was called the "eye of the needle." To get a camel through it was impossible, as it would require the camel to crawl through on its belly -- and even then, the narrowness of the passage would keep the beast at bay.

I hope this clears up some of your confusion. And who knows, you may find yourself a contestant on Jeopardy one day and this little bit of trivia could win you big bucks. Remember me when you cash that check.

[Journeyman]

12. I did some fact checking on my own post and found. . .

that what I learned in a college philosophy course may or may not be true. There seems to be a raging debate over the validity of this "gate" versus "needle" idea and, though my original post may have merit, it may also be full of camel dung. You'll have to do your own research to find what Jesus actually meant by this comment.

[Lisa]

14. it still counts as hyperbole, right?

I assume that they wouldn't have actually tried to squeeze a valuable draft animal through the opening. And as for the teaching value of an exaggeration -- even people like me, who aren't devout Bible-readers, know about that particular example, so it's evidently effective.

Re: alternative interpretations, I mentioned the rope since a linguist/historian I know favors the theory that it was an idiom or mistranslation (possibly because he comes across lots of them in his work and figures it's entirely possible). This site also mentions a possible pun in Aramaic, which would fit in nicely with the humor thesis in the article at the start of this thread.

http://www.biblicalhebrew.com/nt/camelneedle.htm


http://www.aramaicnt.org/HTML/MATTHEW/evidences/Camel.html

Some religious groups have said that the "rope" theory can't be right because it's not funny enough. But I suppose it depends on the audience. If you're speaking to a bunch of bikers and make an "in" joke about Harley panheads vs. shovelheads, they might (if you're lucky) think that was amusing -- Jesus could have been talking to some fishermen, in which case a rope joke would have been a gimmee.

http://faithmilwaukee.org/eyeneedle.htm


p.s. you're right to check on what you learned in college philosophy courses. I'm a college philosophy instructor myself, and I do use hyperbole and made-up analogies if I think it'll help emphasize a point!

[Joe Chi Minh]

25. I confess

that I am strongly predisposed to accept the medieval theory, a priori, because of the never-ending blandishments, excuses, evasions, etc, the rich tend to indulge in, to justify themselves. But, of course, it's still a strong enough hyperbole.

I saw a disgusting article in a right-wing Catholic paper, pretending to correct a misconception the Church had suffered, that "wealth cretion" was a bad thing. That, of course was never the case.

What Jesus and all right-minded people of all faiths and no faith deplore was and is the presumption of those who claim the title of "wealth creators", on the grounds that they originated the conception of a productive acivity, and consequent are entitled to retain of most of the profits therefrom for themselves. When the fact of the matter is that theirs is one of many activities in the process. See how generous they are with employees who may, in time, save them billions of pounds by producing innovative ideas. Theirs is an unwritten book called Proto-Genesis, of an inverted Bible, inspired by Mammon-worship.

I doubt if anyone would deny them more profit from their work than any of their employees. But when Paul said, "Money is the root of all evil", he was clearly adverting to the propensity of most of those who have wealth in abundance, to cause endless harm to society in their quest for ever greater profits. It is reminiscent of the way in which the same people have sought to neutralise the unambiguous warnings against Ambition given by Christ and his Apostles, by claiming that they do it for the greater glory of God.

But... having said that, the truth Christ also reiterated about Faith, however straitened in its scope, like the small mustard seed, makes a very significant difference; and I personally believe that it is by no means inconceivable that the old private-school toffs, among the last defenders of the Christian faith, may yet be the ones who help to usher in the New Jerusalem. I think John Kerry is a good example of the real hope that such people can represent.

[Lisa]

29. same main message ...

I'm inclined to say that either story works for me. Your point about the rich trying to justify themselves would still fit. If anything -- if someone attempted a stunt like unravelling the rope and passing it through the needle one fibre at a time, then reassembling it on the other side (or, as I think someone already mentioned, using an unusually-big needle and a very thin rope) -- that would be a wonderful example of that exact behaviour.

The wall theory is more charming (and I have to admit that I'm just automatically more skeptical about stories that seem to fit so perfectly, unless there's a lot of documentation to back them up). But the overall message, in any case, seems to be that the event being described (a rich man getting into Heaven) is highly improbable, if not impossible -- a lesson made way more fun and memorable by the use of any kind of exaggeration.

Smart move, too. People who might otherwise feel defensive, or worried that they're going to be hit up for money, are disarmed by the joke.

[Joe Chi Minh]

32. "People who might ..

otherwise feel defensive, or worried that they're going to be hit up for money, are disarmed by the joke"

Yes, it's nice. Jesus' exchange with the rich young man, and Joseph of Arimathea's role after the crucifixion indicate that, while Jesus didn't want his words about honoring either God or money, and despising the other to be minimised in any way, the possession of wealth does not automatically correspond to condemnation to eternal torment. Just as poverty is not a certin passport to Heaven. As with virtually all human affairs, in terms of absolution, the degree of our fault is what is at issue - not that we are all at fault, which is a "given".

[JAbuchan08]

4. The Italians are renowned for their biblical scholorship

like their "scientific" rendering of Jesus without a beard. I think that was the Italians. Anyways I trust their rendering of the beardless Jesus over the fundy interpretation of the bible. One love my Italian homies, one love.

[indigobusiness]

5. And Lot said..."Take my wife...please."

...padump bump...

[kodi]

6. I understand He requested separate checks at the Last Supper too.

.

[Placebo]

7. ha...

Ha

HA

HA

HA!!!

:D

[Redstone]

20. Not separate checks...

He actually said, "Judas will get this one. I understand he's about to come into some money."

Redstone

[Joe Chi Minh]

9. In a way,

much of Christ's ministry shares fundamental characteristics with the situation comedy.

You have an infinitely loving, all-powerful, all-knowing God who chooses to become a mere mortal, accepting the limitations of human nature that are all-too familiar with us.

He gathers a group of disciples, who while most of the time, witnessing his human limitations and the suffering that they and his own generosity of spirit cause him - a man of sorrows and acquainted with suffering - occasionally shows them that he is, in fact, omnipotent.

I can't help bursting out laughing when I read of the reactions of his disciples on these occasions. I even do so *in anticipation*, when I recognise the passage ... not unlike with favourite comedians.
One example was when he checked the wind and the waves, since they seemed to be sinking. All the more so, as I have a strong feeling that their faith was quite robust really, and Jesus would have let the boat begin to sink, and still have reproached their lack of faith.

Then there are the many occasions when he "shoots" the scribes and Pharisees "down in flames". You know when he's going to "lower the boom", you see it coming, and again find yourself laughing with delight, in anticipation. Perhaps none is more bitter and understandably so, than when he asks them for which act of kindness they want to kill him!

I had an uncle who had such a bitter sense of humour that he actually got quite shrirty when I laughed at a joke he made. At his workplace, they had to write a report on every thing they did, how long it took, when it could be expected to be completed, etc. And he told me a pal of his called it "examination by intraspection"! But my Uncle Bill didn't think it at all funny.

Some of the funniest situations occurring as a result of this true God and true man interacting with his own normally-created human beings, arise from the extraordinary depth of his understanding, and what seems to him, the extraordinary limitations of their understanding. There is almost an element of the Bowery Boys on occasions, when he rounds on them disparagingly.

And it's not that they were mostly manual workers - spiritual truths are the deepest truths and are only perceptible by the heart - the forte of the poor, historically, chiefly manual workers, who are called to be "rich in faith(/knowledge). Without that, the brain is a liability.

Jesus' astonishment at their failure to understand that he is in the Father and the Father is in him - a primary axiom of the most primordial of truths, the Holy Trinity - which it took centuries for the Church fathers to tease out, seems particularly humorous. Unfortunately, it also one of the passages when the body of a deceased Christian is brought into the church, prior to their funeral and interment.

In the Old Testament, I found particularly funny, the king of Israel's reaction to the request of the King of Syria that he cure his favourite general, Namaan. He meant via Elisha, the prophet, who he had heard tell of from his wife's young Jewish maid servant, but the king of Israel assumed it was a way of picking a fight with him, an excuse for a war. A bit like the baddie in the Western asking if a good guy is calling him a liar! Or making him dance by shooting at his feet. The kind of black humour of bouncers.

I came across another hilarious passage the other day, when one of David's older brothers, on hearing David had volunteered to fight Goliath, said he was up to his old tricks again, full of himself. David obviously knew how to wind his older brothers up and must have got a buzz out of it many times.

[DARE to HOPE]

15. Nice post. :-)

My husband preaches a sermon in Advent about God's sense of humor. Throughout the Bible God had approached old men, telling them their wife would have a baby. Instead, all at once, He approaches the young girl Mary, totally unexpected.

Then there are those befuddled disciples. :-)

It was a deep insight for me, on a forest walk a few years ago, that the "should" voices in my head that I had thought were God's were really from critical parents. He appeared suddenly to me as filled with Laughter, Love, Acceptance, Joyousness. And has ever since.

Guess I'll have to brush up on my Italian.

[TahitiNut]

18. Everyone should go through a de-should-ing process.

:dunce:

[indigobusiness]

33. Ain't that the truth?

Everytime I catch myself doing it, I slap myself silly (but that's another story).

[Joe Chi Minh]

26. Thank you,

DARE to HOPE. Yes, I see Jesus as a bit of a roughneck, truth to tell. He seems more thoroughly working class to me than any of his Apostles. And humour, since much of it involves our recognition of the mad inversion of the values and priorities of the World, is much more a part of the working man's ethos. And of all women's, I suspect, because though they realise the importance, as future protectors and nurturers, to deal with the World, as much from a position of strenght as possible, they are intuitive enough and have been marginalised for long enough, to know the real score. Maybe that's why they are said to like a man with a sense of humour. It's always gratifying to know that others can see the madness of the World as clearly.

The element of subversiveness probably particularly lifts the spirit, since "respectability", however spurious and hypocritical, is of the essence of the higher reaches of worldly power. Unfortunately, we, like Christ, seem to be called to try to be respectable, as well as having a bit of a tearaway spirit! Even though the rough diamonds are great company. Still, if we make Heaven, we'll probably be pretty much surrounded by scapegrace Samaritans and finally be able to let it all hang out! It'll be like being a private in the army again!

That's not to say that academically educated people can't have a brilliant sense of humour, too. Many do, of course. I remember, after I'd had a triple bypass op, the porter bloke wheeled me into this tiny old elevator, which could just about take the two of us.

A group of young surgeons approached the elevator (everyone's young, when you're in your mid-sixties), and this hulking great surgeon with a nine o'clock shadow, braced himself like a boxer, and said to me, (a wizened little old geezer hunched up in my wheel-chair),
"Fight you for it!". I retorted, "Why is it that the more distinguished you characters are, the more thuggish you look!" I think the porter pushed the lift button smartly, while he could!

[TahitiNut]

16. (Hmmm...) Well, I guess you had to have been there.

:shrug:

[Joe Chi Minh]

28. I think my imagination

of what it would have been like to be a "fly on the wall", has got better, as I've got older.

[hedgehog]

17. Jesus used the most evil form of humor

he constantly made puns - thou art Peter and upon this rock.. You are fishermen, come with me and I'll make you fishers of men.

[VegasWolf]

24. Hey, that's punny! n/t

[immoderate]

23. Of course god has a sense of humour.

How else can you explain farts?

--IMM

[Joe Chi Minh]

27. And cats

who'll never "lose face", if they can help it. Put him out in the kitchen and he'll immediately turn round to eat food in his bowl, as if that's what he'd always intended. And I'd just helped him out.

[immoderate]

30. And Katz

He's my dentist.

--IMM

[Joe Chi Minh]

31. I used to caddy

for another Katz, maybe a relative.