Thoughts on white men

[HEyHEY]

I saw the thread. At first I thought it was funny, then saw some of the comments were particularily vile. Then I took offense, not a fake "I wanna be indignant" offense, but a sincire feeling that I was hated because of my skin and sex.
Now before you people start in on "Well, now you now how it feels." You should know I've never discriminated against anyone in my fucking life. AS well, many white men have done amazing things in the name of justice. And today, many white men still work for that cause.
This horseshit where it's okay to make racist comments about us is a disheartening divide. If we want true equality, all souls have to be treated equal, that is the point to drive home. Double standards should not be expected to be okay.
This white man has feelings too.

[rawtribe]

1. Frank Zappa said it best.....

I'm not black, but there's a whole lot of times I wish I could say I'm not white.

[Schema Thing]

2. Hater!

[rawtribe]

4. Yes

But I hate everyone equally!

:bounce:

[HEyHEY]

3. I'm a human - that's it

[UdoKier]

5. Stop yer bitching and enjoy your power and privilege!

I feel so damn privileged, I may just file for bankruptcy and move into a shopping cart to celebrate. But it will be a shopping cart of privilege because it's owned by a white man.

I'm so privileged, my kids get free lunch at school!

[HEyHEY]

6. Privilege?

I barely make enough to survive.

[UdoKier]

10. In case you hadn't noticed, all white males are privileged.

The fact that many minorities fall victim to racism, and the fact that most politicians and CEOs are white men makes us ALL privileged.

Check the threads on the subject. Their insight and logic proved me wrong!

I'm gonna ride this "privilege" thing all the way to the poorhouse!

[SemiCharmedQuark]

28. Here's what privilege means:

It means you might have a really shitty life, but you have a better chance of pulling yourself OUT of that shitty life than a minority who has as shitty a life. Period.

I don't hate white people, I don't hate white men. I don't resent them in anyway. But I think it is sad that you can't see that your skin color grants you certain rights that are so ingrained in this country, fifty years of civil rights hasn't removed it. I know you didn't ask for it but you still need to recognize it. And please don't turn the argument that says "well, this is what the Republicans want" because that could be made with any topic. Should we ignore the struggle the gay community faces because the republicans use it to divide us?

I'm not gay and I sure as hell know that that makes me privileged. I don't discriminate against the gay community, BUT that doesn't change the fact that I am STILL privileged. I didn't ask to be born straight, but that STILL doesn't change the fact that I am privileged. Does this mean that my life will always be good? no. But it means that in certain aspects of it, it will always be easier than if I had been born gay. Sure, there are some members of the gay community who have it better than me, there are lots. But the hatred that they have to endure being hurled at them is so horrible, that I wouldn't ever want it for myself, I don't care how much money would be included in the trade.

Therefore, just because a.) you don't discriminate yourself and b.) your life is not as good financially as some member of the group that is discriminated against, it does not mean that you are not STILL privileged.

[RagingInMiami]

29. Yes, but does that give every who is not a white man the right

to openly bash all white men?

[StopTheMorans]

30. exactly Carlos

:thumbsup:

[SemiCharmedQuark]

31. To bash all white men? No. But that is not what the people on that

thread were doing. They were asking that white men acknowledge that yes, by birth alone, by the genetic lottery, they are privileged. Just like I am privileged because I don't have to fight for my rights to get married just because for whatever reason, I was born a heterosexual.

[RagingInMiami]

39. I just logged on and haven't seen the original thread

So I am just responding to this thread and to what I've seen has become a common practice in our society.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

40. Really? A common practice in our society?

Please give some examples.

[RagingInMiami]

44. Just pay attention to all the TV commercials that depict white men

as dumb asses.

[Misunderestimator]

51. Are you saying there are no dumb ass white men? I see men of all types...

depicted all across the board, just as they are... and on average, depicted in a better light than most other groups.

And if you're judging white man's pain by the commercials depicting them as stupid... take a look at that GoDaddy.com commercial that aired during the superbowl, starring a vacuous, sexkitten woman testifying in front of congress in a Marilyn Monroe voice with her shirt falling off. Now THAT is seriously bad depiction of women.

A bad depiction of a man might be showing him pulling his underwear out of his crotch and grabbing his package or farting or burping. USUALLY, they don't depict them doing that in front of Congress, though I guess Cheney has already set a nice example for them.

[RagingInMiami]

57. I'm Hispanic and when I hang out with my Hispanic friends

we hate it when people use stereotypes and generalizations to us. Yet it's all right for us and other minorities to rag on white men.

[Misunderestimator]

63. But they are not stereotypes of "white men" in general... they are

stereotypes of subgroups of white men... just as they sub group white women. And yes, that is where the stereotypes become insulting, but not to "white men" overall.

Acknowledging that someone has certain advantages in life because of the color of their skin and their gender is NOT RAGGING... It's no more ragging on them than it is ragging on minorities to say that they have certain disadvantages in their lives. It's simple fact.

[RagingInMiami]

69. But there are stereotypes of white men and we just accept them as funny

white men can't jump, white men can't dance, white men can't cook, white men can't dress themselves, white men can't communicate with their wives or girlfriends.
Basically, white men can't do anything other than sit in front of the television set watching the game and drinking beer, if you believe all the TV ads, sitcoms and Hollywood comedies.
Our society has turned the white man into a caricature.

[Misunderestimator]

77. It has turned white woman into a charicature too... How they are

depicted on TV is not the point at all. This all started out with a white guy pointing out that 80% of the positions of power are held by white men who represent less than 40% of the population. That is the point, not how insulted you feel watching some depiction of a white man that doesn't represent you on TV.

Try being a gay person watching themselves depicted as a killer or a black depicted as a drug dealer or a female depicted as a slut... I'm sure I can flip around the dial right this minute and find any one of those characterizations right now.

It does not change the fact that being white and being male and being straight in our society brings some amount of privilege with it.

[HEyHEY]

78. Yeah but we don't openly make jokes about those stereo types

[Misunderestimator]

79. Yes we most certainly do.

[HEyHEY]

82. Funny, I've never seen it here.

I've never seen someone make a crack relating to "Black people being theives" or Jewish people being "cheap" why? Because they'd be tombstoned so fast your head would spin.

[Misunderestimator]

83. I saw "More black men are criminals since more black men are in prison"

on a post here just this week. No tombstone.

I see posts everyday objectifying women in one way or another. No tombstone.

I see posts blaming gays for the election disaster every day here somewhere. No tombstone.

[HEyHEY]

84. Sorry MI I just can't buy that

If anyone flat out said things about anyone else in the tone I've seen things said about white men here...it'd be bye bye

[Misunderestimator]

85. And I'm sorry HH, but I just can't buy that.

I do NOT think that people here are so biased against white males that the mods would allow posts that would otherwise be banned... that's really stretching it.

[HEyHEY]

86. I don't think it's a bias so much as it accepted

That white men, even though MANY are good people who care about the rights of all, are okay to slag. I don't think people intentionally say "I'm gonna get white men." But I think they certainly don't give it a second thought when they want to say something that could be considered racist about us.

[UdoKier]

94. I wouldn't go so far as to cry "racism"

I just object to the "privilege" crap, because I know for a fact that said privilege does NOT extend to every white person.

That's like saying ALL blacks in America are descendents of slaves, and no whites were.

Actually some blacks were free men, and some were slave traders themselves. A significant number of whites came from Europe as indentured servants, a position little different than slavery.

Since slavery was abolished, the wealthy have done everything they could to sow mistrust between poor whites and blacks, who had much in common and would have been well-served to combine forces against the elites, so the elites would give the poor whites a few more crumbs than they gave the blacks, and used their newspaper to tell them how bad the black man was and how the black man was going to take their job etc.

It still works that way today, with the GOP appealing to poor whites' very real fears of losing what meager income they have now to some blacks via Affirmative Action (when outsourcing is the real threat). And why should poor whites turn to the left for help, with people like you telling them how damn privileged they are? Isn't it funny that your rhetoric has the same net effect as that of the oligarchy?

[UdoKier]

93. Since you're referencing *MY* comment, I'll correct you.

I'll quote myself ACCURATELY, since you didn't.

The prison populations is as you show it for two reasons.

1. Proportionally, blacks commit a larger percentage of crimes.

2. Cops are concentrated in high-crime, often black neighborhoods, and often give blacks more unfair scrutiny and harassment.

The post claimed that the only reason incarceration rates for blacks are higher is because of racism in the judicial system. Most of the difference may be attributable to racism, if you want to include the disadvantages brought on by slavery, underfunded schools, unemployment, etc - all can be traced to racism. But the notion that the only reason for 12% of the population accounting for 40% of prisoners is "bias in the judicial system" is ludicrous. I agree that bias does exist in the system, and that some police campaigns like the "war on drugs" are effectively racist.

But it is a fact that a higher proportion of crimes are being committed by blacks, therefore more incarcerations. There is nothing racist about that statement, and most civil rights leaders would acknowledge the endemic problems of crime in their communities. And just as most in the black community are decrying pervasive police abuse and profiling, those same law-abiding black citizens also calling for faster response times and more cops in their neighborhoods to deal with crime.

As liberals we should be attacking the incarceration problem from 3 angles.

1. Eliminating bias from the justice system

2. getting rid of laws that are specifically aimed at incarcerating minority populations for non-violent "crimes" (the war on drugs)

3. attacking the root causes for crime in minority communities: Poverty, underfunded schools, lack of good-paying jobs, predatory lending, etc, etc. (and Affirmative Action fits in with this)

Your problem is apparently with the English language.

You see a post that says "Maybe Newsom should've waited until after the election to test gay marriages in SF" and you interpret it as saying "Damn gays lost us the election!" The statements couldn't possibly be any different and you are being deliberately dishonest and divisive in your distortions of people's statements. I realize that the right uses a lot of veiled language and that people can become hypersensitive and start to see it everywhere, but you really need to read more closely and stop reading your OWN biases into what people are trying to say.

[Misunderestimator]

96. Lovely... thanks for saving me the trouble of finding it...

it certainly speaks for itself.

(And on edit... admittedly, I should have said that I was paraphrasing... but I think I summed it up pretty well.)

[UdoKier]

97. No, you didn't. You completely distorted what I said.

"More black men are criminals since more black men are in prison" implies that black men are predisposed to criminal behavior and that their incarceration is proof of that predisposition.


To the contrary, I simply stated that significant proportion of blacks who are in jail are there because they committed crimes, and not just from judicial system bias as the prior poster had claimed. Apparently, that poster, (and apparently you as well) believe that no black person has ever committed a crime and that they were all framed.


But if you are too lazy to actually read through a post and comprehend it, there's nothing I can do to help you.

[Misunderestimator]

99. LOL... Apparently I think no black person has ever committed a crime...

That's rich. You completely gloss over the fact that per capita more white criminals' sentences are shorter or they get off completely. There most definitely is bias in the judicial system, and it contributes more than "just" the little bit you imply to there being more blacks in jails.

[UdoKier]

102. I never said "just a little bit" Again you're implying, implying, implying

I hate word games, and I try to say EXACTLY what I mean to say. If I meant to say "a little bit" I would have, but we both know that the extent to which bias in the courts and law enforcement is at fault for high black incarceration rates is very hard to quantify.

I have never claimed that there wasn't bias (or bitched about Affirmative Action, for that matter) in the system. The previous poster claimed that ALL, not some, ALL of the disparity between black and white incarceration rates was strictly due to judicial system bias. It's a ridiculous position and it completely ignores ALL of the social and economic problems that continue to CAUSE CRIME and plague communities of color.

And if wanting THOSE problems addressed, rather than just ignoring them and pretending that the whole problem is in the courts is not a liberal position, then I guess I'm not a liberal.

[Misunderestimator]

104. I hate word games too... But words are used to imply things...

I don't think ANYONE here thinks that black men are in jail JUST BECAUSE of the judicial system, which was also what you were IMPLYING them to be saying (with your "just"). Pardon me for not having seen a poster say that he thought ALL incarceration of blacks was the fault of the judicial system. It was your post that stood out to me which is why I used it as an example of something that is ok to say about minorities...

and see it is? Back to the subject at hand... What you said is no worse than what anyone here has said about white men so, thanks for proving my point, that white men aren't any more the subject of ridicule than any other group, contrary to what the poster I was addressing was saying.

[UdoKier]

109. Well, I don't have a problem with that.

It may be a bit more of an "open season" on white men here at DU, but that's hardly the mainstream culture, where the tastes of white men are catered to, women are objectified, and ethnic groups are STILL ridiculed (Mad TV!)

And I would certainly agree that whites are much LESS LIKELY to suffer from discrimination and get unfair advantages than other ethnic groups. My problem is strictly with people who insist that ALL whites benefit in such a way. Many, yes. Most, probably. All? Definitely not.

Whites griping about Affirmative Action and reverse discrimination annoy me to. That was never my bugaboo.


Peace. BTW, I'm sorry, but I REALLY hate your avatar.

[lukasahero]

81. We don't?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=2613838&mesg_id=2613838

[bloom]

88. Someone was complaining about

how men were depicted as "idiots" in commercials - so I started paying attention to the commercials instead of ignoring them.

I haven't seen that yet - but different channels/shows target different people and maybe I'm just not watching the shows where the audience is supposed to like stupid men commercials.

The closest one is the commercial for the Cadillac where the father doesn't care whether his teenage looking daughter is eloping as long as she takes her mom's car instead of his. So he looks like a materialistic "idiot" - but not a low IQ type of "idiot".

[SemiCharmedQuark]

100. Id like to point out that commercials are targeted at white males 18-49

and that most of them are produced BY white males as well.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

71. Um, most of those are put on BY white men.

Since far and away white men hold the top jobs, they usually get executive decision. Those commercials are ok'd by white men.

[StopTheMorans]

46. it happens all over DU; especially in GD. i'm not one to get involved in

this, but it does get tiresome when it pops up in threads where it really has no place (and no, i'm not going to search to find you links to these threads; if you've been here for over a month, you've seen them). people pile on about how easy white men have it, and how they need to stop bitching. bullshit. we're all individuals, and you can't paint white men with a broad brush any easier than you can paint any other group. stereotyping is stereotyping, plain and simple. that being said, i am willing to acknowledge that maybe, as a whole, white men have things easier in society than some other groups. however, i'm sick of fucking hearing about it...

[SemiCharmedQuark]

72. Well, when people stop bitching about Affirmative Action

And how minorities stole their job, then you won't have to hear about it.

I didn't reply to any post in the other thread that wasn't trying to aruge that white men are not privileged. And the thread itself was supposed to be tounge and cheek. It was the people arguing for reverse racism that hijacked it to make it serious.

[GOPFighter]

74. From a white man

When white men moan and groan about how bad they have it compared to blacks, and go on about how blacks have everything handed to them for free, they should get slammed...and I'll be doing some of the slamming. It's disgusting and insulting. My black co-worker was called a nigger the other day on the street. My wife (black) can't get promoted even though she is better educated and has demonstrably outperformed the white males promoted over her. There are still white people out there who automatically assume black people are inferior. They don't hate blacks, they just won't give them any real responsibility.

If there is a lot of white male bashing on DU - without provocation - I haven't seen it (except in a humorous vein). No doubt we're all a bit thin-skinned when it comes to race and favoritism, but - geesh - what are blacks supposed to do? Shut up about discrimination because a bunch of white guys are tired of hearing about it?

[fit4life]

92. A "Humorous Vein"

So I can say whatever I want about any minority (black, hispanic, gay, female, etc...) as long as I put a little :) after it?

I don't think black people would think it was funny no matter how many smilies or how much humor I threw in a post if I said they were all drug dealers and gang members, do you?

Humor just doesn't remove the sting in some situations, nor does it justify stereotypical discrimination.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

98. That is a completely different example.

THat is more along the lines of someone saying all white people are fascist, and that is NOT what anyone is saying. They are saying they are privileged, and they are.

AND also, the thread that started this whole flamewar was in a humorous vein and it was done by a white male poster.

[Sparkle]

37. Wow! Very well put!

[Misunderestimator]

52. Well put... as I recognize my privilege as a white woman...

even though I am a gay one. And my privilege as an American, even though I'm a second class one. I can still see my privilege through the other problems. It's frustrating to witness others refuse to accept that they do indeed have some privilege over others.

[StopTheMorans]

64. but there's also a limit to which you can take this whole "privelege"

thing, and many people cross that repeatedly. there's a difference between recognizing privelege and trying to lay massive amounts of personal guilt on a whole segment of the population due to factors over which they had no control, and that happens on DU.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

73. I'm not defending any bashing of white males, or any other group.

People who want to do that are wrong. But I haven't seen any posts like that here, or in the other thread. The only point people were arguing about was that yes, white males were privileged. And again, that thread did not turn into a flame fest by people stating that fact. It turned into a flamefest from people arguing that as white males they were either persecuted or that minorities had it better than they did.

[UdoKier]

76. We've been through this adi infinitum, and I still disagree.

Michael Powell, son of Colin Powell *IS* more privileged than I am. He never would have had his job had it not been for his father.

I have never tried to gloss over the very real discrimination MANY if not MOST minorities in this country face, and there may have been a time or two when I got a break for being white but was unaware of it. But human individuals are NOT representatives of, or averages of the race they happen to belong to. We each have an individual lot in life, and a very individual way of facing up to it. There was another poster who actually had the nerve to say that any white male who wasn't a millionaire was a moron for not knowing how to take advantage of all the free "white-only" giveaways in this society, and that is just BULLSHIT. George Bush was born into more privilege than most of us could imagine, so was Michael Powell. Most African-Americans have a much harder row to hoe, and unlike gays, they can't hide who they are, so no matter how talented or brilliant they may be, there will be more barriers for them BUT NOT ALWAYS.

And using your logic, I could say that gays are a privileged class in this country. After all gays have much higher incomes than the population at large. But how do you think a post on "whiny gays" would be received? But with white guys it's okay, and the majority of us who are not rich and powerful are supposed to suck it up just because rich and powerful people happen to be white.

I stand by every comment I have made on this subject, and look forward to the day when every liberal is willing to look at people as people rather than statistics to pigeonhole.


And there are instances when every group is subject to discrimination. As a kid I was forcibly bussed to a low-income Mexican-American neighborhood, and the white kids were CONSTANTLY getting beaten up for being white.

Not that I'm blaming the Mexican kids, there were probably some instances where they were retaliating for snobby behavior by the white kids, or maybe they just resented their school being invaded by a bunch of white kids from another neighborhood, but whatever the reason, I know for a fact that I was repeatedly victimized by kids I didn't even know, who I had never done anything to.

When I lived in Miami, I was limited in the jobs I could take because I'm not fluent in Spanish - almost all jobs there require Spanish fluency (luckily I'm a japanese-English translator, so it wasn't a problem for me personally) but I know many whites who have been forced to leave Miami not because they disliked the place, but because they couldn't find any jobs for English speakers.


My point is not to say that white people as a group are enduring discrimination. I really think the "as a group" part is the problem. I'm just saying that there are times when white people do experience discrimination, and there are few people in this country born into more disadvantaged circumstances than the poor whites of Appalachia.


Please think about this and understand that grouping people the way you do is the exact same thing you claim to be against.

[redqueen]

80. Exaclty - wealth and connections are the real issue.

And your statement that it's thinking with the 'as a group' mentality that is part of the problem is dead-on accurate.

The ONLY 'as a group' that is TRUE is the group that's WEALTHY.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

101. No, that is not my logic. Privilege does not have to do with income.

Or rather, it does not have exclusively to do with income. I don't know how you could have gotten that out of my post. Please re read it.

Expand your experience in that one mexican neighborhood to the entire country. Hispanics make up 12% of the population. They are different than 88% of the United States. They can't just pack up and move to another area where things will be better. Everywhere they go, they will be different.

You might never understand, and that's fine. Maybe you can't understand unless you live it. I don't know how to make it any clearer for you. It's not about the wealth you have.

It's about this: You have a hard time in your life. But a minority in your exact same situation has a harder time based on the color of his skin. A gay man in your position has a harder time because of his sexual orientation. Why? They could be exactly the same as you, right now, down to the penny. They could possess the same skills, the same education...everything. Yet, the gay man can't marry and the minority has a lesser chance of getting the same job, the same loan, the same house. THAT is privilege.

[UdoKier]

103. Of course it's not your logic, you eschew logic entirely.

My experience in that neighborhood WAS unique. My hometown, El Paso, has long been majority mexican-American. I LOVE my hometown all of its residents. I'm fully aware of the bum hand most of them have been dealt. But not every white person can afford to just pack up and move either, or even if they did, have any guarantee of a better life anywhere else.

And I do understand what you're saying. You're saying that because MOST of the members of whatevver group have some given experience, whether it be privilege or discrimination, that ALL of them are automatically in the same boat, and that is just nonsense. And I know it's not just income. Michael Powell has had it easy in every way since he was a kid. Sure he may have gotten called racial slurs. So did I. But he had good schools and a good home and college paid for him and a cushy nepotism job. Good for him. The helmet-haired murderess, Condi Rice, on the other hand, had a much tougher upbringing and saw the ugly face of racism first-hand, more than most of us would care to know, but she made it, and for some reason chose to be an ass-kissing toady to a thug like Bush.

"It's about this: You have a hard time in your life. But a minority in your exact same situation has a harder time based on the color of his skin."

Who is "a minority"? There is Pancho Valdez or Malik Jones, or Mary Cheney, but there is no such person as "a minority". There are people, who happen to belong to various ethnic groups. They are not their groups.

" A gay man in your position has a harder time because of his sexual orientation. Why? They could be exactly the same as you, right now, down to the penny. They could possess the same skills, the same education...everything. Yet, the gay man can't marry and the minority has a lesser chance of getting the same job, the same loan, the same house. THAT is privilege."

No, it's not. The gay man is being discriminated against and made into a second class citizen. The fact that in that area, I'm allowed to marry is not a PRIVILEGE. An injustice is being committed on the gay man. The existence of that injustice does NOT confer a privilege to me


Your logic is like saying that "Many women are beaten by their husbands. Women who aren't beaten by their husbands are all in healthy marriages", when of course, nothing could be further from the truth. There are much worse ways to abuse a person than just beating them.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

105. You are privileged because nobody will ever do that to you.

Nobody is going to say that white males are inferior and pass laws against them. You have a luxury of never having to worry about that. Don't you see that??? Nobody is going to one day say that straight people can't get married. THere is zero chance of that happening. You don't have to worry about it. That peace of mind is a luxury. SHould it be? No. But it is.

Studies have shown, that across all age groups and income groups, minorities earn less than whites in their group. So had Michael Powell been born white, he's probably be even higher up than he is now. AND he's had slurs shouted at him I'm sure.

You don't get it because you don't have to. Perhaps you should swing by the African American Group and ask there. Im sure someone can explain it better than I can.


And by the way, nice dig. I guess when things don't go your way, it's good to just insult the other poster. "By your logic" "You eschew logic!" Very mature.

[UdoKier]

107. Look, we're going around in circles here.

I understand your point, and you're entitled to stick to your opinion.

I don't buy your definition of "privilege" and never will.

I apologize for demeaning your way of thinking. Those digs probably were a bit off target, since it was another poster who got me riled by implying that I was a racist and a freeper.

At any rate, I hope we can work toward some of the same ends, even if we disagree on the terminology.

PEACE.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

108. Yep, definitely. Take Care.

Steph.

[Tom Kitten]

7. I really no longer give a shit anymore...

I now consider myself an outsider and don't give a shit about what other people think about me, disregarding being a white man and all that. I just try to do my best and help others, regardless, whenever I can. My personal sense of morality and responsibility rules over my non-existent peer group rating. People always thought I was weird anyways. My reaction is hello? We're all fucked up nowadays one way or the other.

[progmom]

32. Hey Tom Kitten! Haven't seen you around!

How are you doing?????

[elperromagico]

8. Unfortunately, HEyHEY, we are members of a race

that carries a lot of baggage.

[HEyHEY]

9. Very true

However, that doesn't make it right to hate HEyHEY. I ain't done shit.

[Schema Thing]

12. You th' man, HeyHey.... er.... I mean.... you know... well said and all

:evilgrin:

[Tom Kitten]

11. very Biblical that is...

are white men singled out for their ancestor's original sins? Even the sensitive new age guys?

[Schema Thing]

13. Great picture, btw, Tom Kitten. I like.

[Tom Kitten]

24. thank you

I took it myself! It's a vineyard near Forest Grove, Oregon, taken the day after Thanksgiving 2003...a rare day one was born to enjoy!

[elperromagico]

20. No one ever said racism is a sensible mindset.

[Tom Kitten]

23. no, but it always seems...

...to raise it's ugly head, doesn't it? Of course since we no longer have a sensible mindset as a whole, as a nation, as a people, of course all sorts of destructive trains of faulty logic and reasoning are going to take root and re-establish themselves...
After all there are plenty of businesses lined up to make money off our collective fears, isn't there?
Marx may not have gotten it all right but he did have some accurate insights after all...

[UdoKier]

15. No we are individuals.

Just as an innocent black man shouldn't be eyed suspiciously by purse-clutching white women on elevators just because most of the criminals they see on "Cops" are black, we shouldn't be judged by the actions of a bunch of assholes a hundred or more years ago, or even today's assholes. Prejudice is prejudice, and saying that "all whites are privileged" is EXACTLY the same as saying that "all blacks are predisposed to crime" or "all blacks are good at sports"


We are NOT our race, we are individual people, and it appears a lot of "liberals" have got a long ways to go before they realize that.

[elperromagico]

21. Fight ignorance, then.

It is ignorance that paints the broad strokes of racism.

[Tom Kitten]

22. I couldn't say it better...

this country has long been into it's downward spiral and singling out all of "white man" in general as lackeys of "the Man" in power is just going to make it worse...Truly, what's the point with expending energy arguing with people who are your brethren? People who make distinctions like that are just as much a part of the problem and folks like Karl Rove love playing you like a fiddle!
Of course it is your Constitutional right to hate me for saying shit like this but I too know the beak of poverty first hand...I'm a little bit above it now but it ain't because I'm white, believe me...

[T Town Jake]

14. Marxian doctrine asserts...

...that every facet of any given society is governed strictly by "power arrangements" that flow from top to bottom. Those making such hateful comments to you would say that you're a member of a "privileged class," and are immune as a result from truly being "insulted" or "offended" as a consequence. This "philosophy," such as it is, has been current and popular in many academic circles for some time, and has seeped into much of current leftish discourse.
As an old-fashioned FDR/Harry Truman/Hubert Humphrey/Robert Kennedy liberal I think it's all horseshit, of course, and sneer at it every chance I get. That's how I handle it.
I certainly understand your personal feelings, though. Peace.

[BikeWriter]

16. Kumbaya, my Lord, Kumbaya!

[BikeWriter]

17. Kumbaya my Lord, kumbaya (Here's all of it)

Kumbaya my Lord, kumbaya
Kumbaya my Lord, kumbaya
Kumbaya my Lord, kumbaya
Oh Lord, kumbaya

Someone's singing Lord, kumbaya
Someone's singing Lord, kumbaya
Someone's singing Lord, kumbaya
Oh Lord, kumbayah

Someone's laughing, Lord, kumbaya
Someone's laughing, Lord, kumbaya
Someone's laughing, Lord, kumbaya
Oh Lord, kumbaya

Someone's crying, Lord, kumbaya
Someone's crying, Lord, kumbaya
Someone's crying, Lord, kumbaya
Oh Lord, kumbaya

Someone's praying, Lord, kumbaya
Someone's praying, Lord, kumbaya
Someone's praying, Lord, kumbaya
Oh Lord, kumbaya

Someone's sleeping, Lord, kumbaya
Someone's sleeping, Lord, kumbaya
Someone's sleeping, Lord, kumbaya
Oh Lord, kumbaya
Oh Lord, kumbaya

[DulceDecorum]

18. Y'all CHILL. This is not the USS Kittyhawk.

lets go get the guys who HAVE done reprehensible stuff.
I'll race you to the Batcave.
Last one in has to kiss Lynn Cheney.

[drm604]

19. I hear what you're saying HEyHEy

I'm a white man and I didn't ask for, or try to make, the world as it is. In fact, I'm actively trying to change it. (Even if it does feel like I'm tilting at windmills, I still have to try damnit!) And people should keep in mind people like Ken Blackwell and Condi Rice. It isn't just white males that are the problem!
Keep in mind that the Repubs want us divided and squabbling amongst ourselves. They want to drive that wedge between us. Don't let them do that, we have to stick together. Don't blame "white males", blame the greedy, elitist, classist pieces of crap that look down on all of us regardless of our color or gender.

[drumwolf]

25. HEy there HEyHEY

I'm Asian. You're a privileged white male, can you lend me $1000? :7

<ducks>

[hfojvt]

26. It could be worse

you could be a white male fundamentalist Christian with a law degree who lives in a red state

[KG]

27. since i don't identify myself thru my race or gender wasn't offended

i'm just KG, accountable only for my own actions.

[HEyHEY]

87. Not in their eyes - in their eyes...

We're some kinda evil pricks no matter what we are like personally

[RagingInMiami]

33. Regardless of history and privilage

It shouldn't be social acceptable to openly bash white men when it isn't acceptable to bash females or any other ethnic group. It's nothing but reverse discrimination.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

35. To ask for an acknowlegement is not to bash.

They are asking that white males acknowlege that they are privileged. And as I said before, it has nothing to do with whether you are a poor white male, or whether you discriminate yourself or not.

[Misunderestimator]

38. Well put, and that's how I read it. Besides the fact that the threads

(at least the couple I saw) were started by a white guy... guess he was bashing himself :shrug:

[sniffa]

34. where's this thread you speak of?

i wanna go rag on white men. i hate 'em.

[Sparkle]

42. LOL ! Here....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3075876

It wasn't bashing white men, though.

[Misunderestimator]

54. I THOUGHT that was the thread... how silly... there was no bashing there.

I think we all have just too much time on our hands ... we need to impeach Bush or something.

[Misunderestimator]

36. I'd like to see the exact comments of which you speak...

because I must have missed them.

[SarahB]

41. You white men have given me much grief.

You people have too many issues as well. I've met 2 awesome (and nice) Asian dudes in the past month that are making me re-evaluate my opinion of you pale ones. However, given the fact I have spawned white males, yeah, I'd have to say I'd still like to see them treated well. I doubt in this country, there's much danger of that not happening given the white males still represent the group in the most positions of power.

[StopTheMorans]

48. i don't remember giving you grief sarah

:shrug: :P

[SarahB]

60. I haven't given you the opportunity yet.

:P

:hi:

[StopTheMorans]

67. touche

:7

[kerrywins]

43. Liberals will always "hate" white men

and christians for that matter. Myabe thats why I'm attracted to white guys, because I see that. I don't know...one can't explain the full workings of the heart.

[jswordy]

45. I still wuv you, HEyHEY!

Cheer up, buddy!

:hug:

[GOPBasher]

47. As a white man, I must say,

we shouldn't be discriminated against. Another point: We really, truly, can't dance. That's not just a steriotype; it's true. Sorry.

On edit: I'm actually just kidding.

[kerrywins]

49. they say white men don't have rhythm...

but...(and I know I'll get bashed for this)....white men, to me, are some of the best musicians around.....jimmy page, mick jagger....to me...those white guys have more rhythm then most people of any race.

[DelawareValleyDem]

55. "Look, there's Trafalgar Square! There's Piccadilly Circus!

There's Jimmy Page, the greatest thief of American black music who ever lived!" - Homer Simpson visiting London

[kerrywins]

56. say what you will,

I have never heard a black guitarist play like jimmy page....
and I know you'll probably throw several names of musicians who you'll claim do....then I'll listen to them and have to tell you they don't....

[Karenina]

59. EEEEEWWWWWW!!!

What's that NASSY SMELL??? x(

[redqueen]

50. I didn't see it and don't want to.

That shit pisses me off.

Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face!

In light of that kind of stupidity: "We all want a society where everyone is equal" translates into "We want our turn being the assholes!"

:puke:

[kerrywins]

53. Very well said!!!

""We all want a society where everyone is equal" translates into "We want our turn being the assholes!""

I think that statement sums up pretty much this whole thread....
very well said indeed!

[redqueen]

61. Thank you!

:hi:

[Schema Thing]

58. lol, yep

Reminds me of Mars vs Venus :eyes: discussions with women who don't want their time with equal power, they want their time to abuse their power.

[redqueen]

62. Same situation, different conflict.

It's the same everywhere. People LOVE revenge. Stupidheads.

[Schema Thing]

66. Actually, I think we just love power and privilege

people is people, and ain't none of us born saints.


Dag nabbit! you've made me channel some old black angel.

[Misunderestimator]

65. If you didn't see it, how can it piss you off?

Seems like you're interpreting what people said on the thread without having read it either.

[redqueen]

68. You're right.

I'm hearing the arguments I've already heard on the matter. Don't care to revisit them, or any variety of them, really.

I don't think there's any merit to it. If some white people are pirivileged, fine. But to say all are is just stupid.

It is the wealthy who are privileged. Other groups may have more or less going for them, but dividing ourselves from each other unnecessarily is counterproductive, IMO.

[DrGonzoLives]

70. Yep

Turning the tables is not equality; unfortunately, far too many are deluded into thinking that it is.

[hollywood926]

75. I kicked the other thread for those who hadn't seen it. eom

[d_b]

89. Kill whitey!

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

90. I don't hate you. I hate the track record of white men. Read Malcolm X's

Autobiography. Racism is about power and white men have the power.

[UdoKier]

95. *SOME* white men have the power.

nt

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

110. separate "yourself" from "white men" and you're there

come on now

[Bok_Tukalo]

91. The only color that matters is green

<eom>

[Mike Niendorff]

106. I agree, and I think it's actually an important point.

We're all in this fight together, people.
Whatever divides us against each other hurts all of us.
The sooner all progressives come to grips with this, the sooner we'll throw the bastards out that are screwing all of us -- white, black, brown, women, men, gay and straight alike.
My fight is your fight, your fight is my fight.
It's that simple.


MDN