the bible is their playbook - - - > can this be ours?

[andyhappy]

Imagine there's no heaven,
It's easy if you try,
No hell below us,
Above us only sky,
Imagine all the people
living for today...

Imagine there's no countries,
It isnt hard to do,
Nothing to kill or die for,
No religion too,
Imagine all the people
living life in peace...

Imagine no possesions,
I wonder if you can,
No need for greed or hunger,
A brotherhood of man,
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...

You may say Im a dreamer,
but Im not the only one,
I hope some day you'll join us,
And the world will live as one.

[plcdude]

1. best song of the

20th century. I continue to imagine.

[donheld]

2. You may say Im a dreamer

but Im not the only one,
I hope some day you'll join us,
And the world will live as one.

[Lerkfish]

3. Actually, exept for one line, its perfectly compatible with Jesus's

teachings....

"No religion too"

Jesus had the same dream.....believe it or not.

something happened in the translation between what Jesus said and what the repukes believe.

In fact, even though I'm a liberal christian, I would personally forego organized religion if it meant world peace. I'd still keep my personal religion, but I'd have no problem with that.

I"m more antiwar than I am pro-proselytizing.

[ktowntennesseedem]

10. This liberal Christian agrees.

I'm still involved in organized religion, because the relationships give me strength and it is mutually beneficial, even when we don't see eye to eye on everything (which is just about 100% of the time!). But like you my faith is a personal matter, and if I could find no one to agree with me on anything, my faith would not change or confirm just to fit in. In fact, I imagine my faith would only grow from the isolation.

Blessed are the peacemakers!

:hi:

[DakotaDemocrat]

4. The US Constitution

The Constituion, in its current form, is just fine by me. The Repubs don't seem to care about it, so I'm claiming it...

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. You are missing it

The bible must be our playbook too

Ok so before you scream... but, but, but....

What the fundies read in the bible is NOT the message, and what you just posted is truly that message that they despise

So learn some scripture... trust me you too can have fun with freepers

You see, they are very literal when is convenient... here is one for ya

Slavery is also permited under the Lord's Law, for seven years and as long as this is not an Israelite, so next time you have a fundy preaching that being gay is an abomination in the eyes of the lord, ask him calmly (after agreeing of course) where is the slave market?

After that ask him, what is the gong price for your daughter, which you can sell into slavery.

Oh and also ask him if you can execute him right now for he has cut the sideburns on his hair which is not pleasing to the Lord, and if he is going to the next execution since splateting himself in the blood of the sinner is pleasing to the Lord (stoning)

Once you do that, he or she may get some of those rusty wheels running, as the contradictions are there.

Of course if you happen to be a woman and he goes for the old tired line that women cannot preach, point out two women were chosen by the Lord to be his prophets and in St Mark you also find Magdalene preached for the Lord, so was the Lord wrong?

You see, they have used the bible the wya they have because you have not read it (go ahead will not hurt, it is a great book anyway), but here is the trick, neither have they. So time to crack the bible and god darn it, learn some scripture....

Oh and if you really want to shock them Isaiah, Daniel and the Book of Revelations have wonderful lines about the false church that will follow the anti christ (see where I am going here?) Read bushistheantichrist.com for some ideas. Whether you believe in prophecy or not (I don't) it can be lots of fun to see those wheels starting to spin and the rust finally break.

Will it work with every one of these loons? NOPE, but with the base it just may. So far I have done it with one, and lo and behold he has disobeyed orders from his minister and has started to read the darn book on his own.

;-)

[andyhappy]

6. cherry picking

so, just like the intelligence leading up to the IRAQI war, they are cherry picking facts out of the bible to go along with their psychotic faith based agenda.

You have some GREAT points here. I am just saying that our side needs a playbook. Default rules to certain ideological questions.

I love that one about the sideburn execution!

choice!

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. Now to the actual play book

The US Consitution, the Bill of Rights and god darn it, read John Locke, trust me Jefferson did not come up with all of this on his own... he was INSPIRED by both Locke and Hume... in particular on the theory of Civil Government by John Locke

[andyhappy]

11. I read somewhere...

that the founding fathers were deists. Is that true? Where can I find such info?

and what the hell is a deist?

spelling? phonetically it is dee-ist...

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. As a side comment they don't teach history in school no more

yes a good number of them were Deist... they were also Free Masons.

A deist is a person who believes in a creator, a pancreator, but not in organized religion.

There is plenty of informaiton on this on the web, or you could look for a good book on US History... or for that matter read Jefferson's Letters to the Commonewealth of Viriginia

It was all the rage among the intellectuals of the Enlightenment, to either not believe in a creator or believe in a creator and not in organized religion for good reason. Europe had just fought the 100 year war, which was a religious war. Also science was must getting going wtiht the modern scientific method and people were starting to explain all with out a religious book.

What is more, and why many fundies truly hate America because she is secular, some of our founding fathers were openly hostile to the churches of the time (Read JEfferson's bible)... because the churches of the time were openly hostile to the idea of separation of church and state, as they were part of the organization of the state

The French are best to explain it as you had three estates, the nobles, the church and the people... and the church and the nobles for the most part ran the show... that is why the American Revolution (and the French Revolution) were so damned by many in the church.

Of course if this had staid in France and the US... but alas it did not. This infection of secular states spread first in Europe with Napoleon and thein in Latin America with the many wars of Independence that were fought, and the issue was not fully settled there either.

This conflict has now reached us, and we are faced with people who want to return us back to Massachusets Bay Colony, pretty intolerant of other faiths... or believes.

Here is the paradox, a country who put a man on the moon is now willing (so it seems) to go back to the 17th century where warlocks and witches run wild and are burned.

[andyhappy]

15. figures...

figures that it would have to take yoda to teach me this stuff!

Thanks!

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. You welcome

History is kind of my hobby (Well more than my hobby)

Now read Howard Zinn's Popular History of the United States

there are other books, Boorstein is also pretty decent and from the other side, aka the elite side...

And you can find the actual documents (before they burn them) on the web from the Founding Fathers...

[Carson]

7. It may do you some good to realize the difference

between the Old and New Testaments.

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. But I do, I do

by the way while you are at it...

Also you have to diferentiate between Leviticus and the first five books (the Laws) and the rest.. trust me Kings is VERY DIFFERENT from Leviticus and the last books of prophets, (Isaiah and Daniel) are very dfferent from Samuel.

I know the differences, in fact Mark is very different from Paul as well.


And most fundies... usually pick their worst examples from Exodus AND Leviticus.

[ktowntennesseedem]

12. I just love watching fundies clam up when I throw scripture back at them!

One of my favorites is Paul's instructions to at least one of the early churches not to let the women even speak when at the church, but to quietly learn from their husbands at home. Love to ask them if they have women singing in the choir or teaching children's bible classes. Or what did Paul intend for single women and widows to do. It's really fun listening to them explain their way out of that one!

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. Hmm not only that, but under Jewish law

women don't belong in the temple either... there you can have that freebie and run with it... (Never mind the contradiction of two women prophets... yep I have fun with orthodox rabies with that one too)

As an aside religion is a personal matter, I agree, and these folks want it to be everybody's matter

My favorite these days is to go from Leviticus and Exodus all the way to Mark's Parable of the sheep and the Goat...

Now usually they go, hmm you are very well versed, good christian.

No, not quite, I am Jewish

[Speck Tater]

17. It's gotta have a religious theme like...

Oh Lord,

Won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz.