My Professor debated me on Bush today in front of our class

[GingerSnaps]

He has been referring to me as Ms. Kerry since the beginning of the semester because I wear my Kerry baseball cap to class.

Today our class ended about 1 hour early because the Professor wanted to ask everyone who they were voting for. We have 28 students in the class and half of the class answered the question. Both of the students from China were for Bush, two of the sisters from MN were for Bush and believe it or not the girl from France was for Bush and the rest were Kerry supporters. My Professor is from Greece and the first day of class he said that he was a Kerry supporter but today he admitted that he voted for Bush the last time and he will be voting for * on Tuesday. After he asked the rest of the class questions he started questioning me for the duration of the class.

We had a debate which felt more like an argument about the way Bush speaks, the lies, the ear piece, Rove, the way * got into office, etc. and it went on and on. He kept stressing right wing talking points and I turned every point around. He went on and on about Bush's military experience and that Bush knew how to fly a plane. I freaked out on that part of the argument and I said that he was in the champagne unit in TX and that * was AWOL. He stuck to his points and I stuck to mine. Our debate was the oddest thing that has ever happened to me in my life.

If it weren't for DU I would have been lost for words but I stood my ground and I got my points in and several of the other students that didn't say who they were voting for at the beginning of the class admitted that they were Kerry supporters in the end.

The whole time the two sisters from MN and the girl from France were making comments and snickering to each other.

[takumi]

1. Bravo!

Now go find those AWOL supporters and work on them, too!

[Maine-i-acs]

2. Then you won dammit!

To hold your ground and change even one opinion is a net gain. Congratulations!

[trotsky]

3. How the frick is it his business who everyone votes for?

The whole class should have told him to go take a hike when he asked that.

Good for you, though, in responding to his regurgitations.

[lightbulb]

4. Nice job

Sucks to be put in that position, but it sounds like you really shined. Hopefully he won't hold it against you!

[Love Bug]

5. Good for you!

What kind of class is this and does your teacher actually teach? Just wondering what you're paying for...

Good for you for holding your own. I think you gave a lot of your fellow students something to think about.

Hope this teacher doesn't take it out on you next week when Boosh loses. Try not to look too smug! :evilgrin:

[GingerSnaps]

9. Economics

It's held twice a week and I found it a bit odd that he waited to "argue" with me right before the election.

[ProfessorGAC]

15. An Econ Professor For Bush!?!?!?

As i've been saying, my brethren in the economics community disappoint me every single day.

My guess is your prof doesn't know much about modern macroeconomics either, no matter his credentials.
The Professor

[kick-ass-bob]

18. you're an econ prof?

Now you're just REALLY COOL!!

:yourock:

[ProfessorGAC]

20. Actually

I work in econometric modeling and causative theory. I teach grad classes only at more than one university, because there's only so much call for what i teach.

Full Disclosure: I work in industry as my fulltime job, because the money is too good, the freedom too great, and the pressure to publish far less. The teaching is a sideline. I used to want to do that and nothing else, but not anymore.

I want to work with those who will understand the factors, effects, and interactions of macroeconomics, on the overall scale and develop tomorrow's theories on just how things really work.

That's what i write now. That's why i can only publish in arcane journals. Only the theoretical econ geeks would care about anything i published.
The Professor

[kick-ass-bob]

22. I used to be a theoretical econ geek in Grad school

but I haven't been in the field for many years now...

I loved my econometric classes...

[lazarus]

60. I took out an econ professor one time

on Usenet. He was actually a libertarian, if you can believe it.

I took him down hard. That was about the same time I beat John Lott in a debate on his own book (I didn't know it was Lott at the time, it was one of his pseudonyms, Mary Rosh).

Good times...

[GingerSnaps]

61. Good job!

I got a pat on the back afterwords if that means anything.

[lazarus]

68. Good for you

A pat on the back is all you get sometimes.

[Ron Green]

21. He sounds like one of those profs whose knowledge of Adam Smith

is all about the Invisible Hand....

but he hasn't learned about the Invisible Foot!

[American Tragedy]

Adam Smith's Invisible Hand

I like Adam Smith just fine, but the Invisible Hand has got to be one of the least scientific-sounding theories ever devised. Makes me think faith-based economics.

[GingerSnaps]

28. I don't think that you would use Jock Straps, Tampons, Trojans as

Examples of a product that one might be selling either.

[redqueen]

16. OH MY GOD

Did you by any chance remember to ask him his opinion about the coalition of Nobel Prize-Winning economists that back Kerry?

This guy is NUTS!

[ProfessorGAC]

19. I Support Kerry, Too!

I haven't won the Nobel or anything major, but i've won a few peer awards for economics.

And, i wouldn't vote for the current crop of Repubs for any office, at any level, at any time in my voting life. Their understanding of economics and how things actually work is deplorable.

That's probably why the true theoreticians who win Nobel prizes support Kerry, huh? If i were a famous economist, instead of just some schmuck writing on DU and publishing in arcane journals, i'd be sure that everyone in the country knew which side i was on.
The Professor

[redqueen]

24. Well I should hope so

seeing as how you're on DU and all. :P

Thanks for doing the work you do... arcane or not.

[GingerSnaps]

27. When we got to * IQ

I couldn't believe what he was saying and I was stunned by what was going off but I held my ground.

He compared himself to * and said the he misspeaks. I told him that he wasn't representing our country as our leader and the option of misspeaking wasn't an option.

My head is still spinning from the argument. It was unexpected.

[kick-ass-bob]

17. WTF???

An insult to economists everywhere!
For I am one - and none of my (undergrad) wanted Bush Sr in office...

[papau]

30. Some folks are impressed with Bush's image!

I easily accepted that a Professor was such a person -

but it hurt accepting that an econ person

and more importantly, a smart Greek -

could be so wrong!

Another set of cousins to take out of the will!

Not really - but it is sad to hear about. :-(

:-)

Great job on holding your own!

:toast:

[gafbil1992]

52. You mean this image?

:D

[GingerSnaps]

53. Did you know that Bush

He's a Christian and he follows God's law :eyes:

[gafbil1992]

54. Its easy for him....

He thinks he's God :crazy:

[linazelle]

44. I had a RW econ professor try to validate Reagan's trickle-down economics

He had the class research Reagan's economic policies but was mum about his position. I suspected he was a repug by the very topic and completed the assignment begrudgingly. At the end, I asked what HE thought. Of course he was all for trickle down theory and everything Reagan did. :eyes:

The thing that has occurred to me later is that people like him teach young, unthinking students every day and they are influencing them with this crap. That's scary. :scared:

[Lars39]

6. He says he's a Kerry supporter, yet he's voting for bush*?

The guys a freakin' headcase.

[redqueen]

7. GOOD FOR YOU!

:yourock:

[HEyHEY]

8. At many Universities in Canada

Profs aren't allowed to voice thier political views to the class, the idea being they could influence elections by influencing the students.

[GingerSnaps]

11. I think that he crossed the line today

Yesterday he was called into the Deans office about some students complaining about something. He's odd to begin with because he uses "G-Strings", "Jock Straps", "Trojans" as examples of products that one might sell as a product.

How can someone concentrate when he is bringing up sex related products. My mind starts to wonder thinking about things like that :evilgrin:

[Dudley_DUright]

10. As a professor myself, I don't particularly like professors

asking students how they will vote and then arguing about it. It is OK to talk politics in the abstract in many courses, but I get uncomfortable about proselytizing for a particular party or candidate.

[ProfessorGAC]

12. I Can Buy That

While i've done lectures in which specific economic principles of liberterianism or republicanism are debunked, i don't bring it down to politics. People will infer that, i'm sure. But, i keep it to strictly economics and econometric proofs of the validity or lack thereof of those principles.

However, since the Repubs have been wrong about almost everything apropos economics since 1960, it's hard not to have it come out as a condemnation of the party and their candidates. Tough!
The Professor

[GingerSnaps]

13. He gave me a pat on the back at the end of the class

:shrug:

[kick-ass-bob]

14. I agree. He was way out of line with that.

He wanted to change minds (figuring his 'superior intellect' would defeat your arguments - if you had any, he thought)

Slimy...

[DrZeeLit]

23. I agree. As a professor, it's none of my business...

....for whom the students vote. I would never ask anyone. Isn't the ballot still "secret?"

I can understand using this as a debate topic, if that's the appropriate class -- and economics would be an appropriate class if that was the thrust of the debate, but it doesn't sound like it.

Professors wield a certain amount of power, and now it's going to be difficult for students to feel comfortable that they are not being judged, hence graded, by their preference in candidates in lieu of, or in addition to, their work.

And, if you don't think professors wield power, wait until the draft. If they give student deferments, staying in school with a "C" average means somebody has a lot of power over your life: off to war or not ...that willl be the question. Yes, it looks like the "new draft" does not have deferments, but "ya jes nevah know, do ya?"

[GingerSnaps]

33. I mentioned the "C" average

He said the Bush might have the same problem that anyone else does when it comes to taking tests. I told him that back in the days when Bush attended college all the rich families sent their low IQ kids to the top colleges and they all got C's because of the donations to the school.

[Redleg]

31. I agree. I don't want to know how they will vote- I just want them

to use their heads when they make decide who to vote for.

[plcdude]

32. I agree

as a professor also I think it is unprofessional to ask such a question or for that matter to discuss partisan poliitics in class. I believe we are in class to pursue the truth and present it to the best of our ability. We are there to continually test the truths we present and seek new understanding and knowledge. We are not there to express our opinions whether it be in areas of politics, religion, or even ethics. We can explore in an objective manner as possible those opinions so that we assist students in thinking critically and clearly but to ask who people are voting for and to politically debate with students is inappropriate and unscholarly. I think you ought to ask him about his sex life and see if he would like to reveal that to class.

[Malikshah]

36. Spot on-- I follow the same policy

Anyone who notices the upside-down flag decal and Dean sticker in my office will know where I stand, but in class I make it a point not to have politics discussed.

I hear a lot of folks talking about it before class begins--which is good--but I don't take part--

Though I dearly want to-- one of my better students is a stepford-* supporter mouthing the talking points. Such a shame.

The classrooms are no place for politics-- it skews the authority issue and can easily create a hostile environment for learning--which is premised on a mutual trust.

[GingerSnaps]

37. He should have followed that rule

But he didn't.

[skygazer]

25. That's very strange

And bravo to you for standing up to him and making points. I think it is completely out of line to poll the class on who they are going to vote for. Sounds like another divider, not uniter. What a jerk.

[barb162]

26. good for you, you did fine! And I doubt if I would have kept my cool

on this back in my school days. I probably would have been totally intimidated as there is no equal position here. That professor was out of line.

[Redleg]

29. Why is it any of his f@cking business who you vote for?

Was it a poli-sci class? I'm tired of these right-wing academics pushing their tired, conservative bull on unsuspecting students.

[GingerSnaps]

34. Economics

Most of the students major in Interior Design and Marketing.

[GingerSnaps]

35. He ran out of positive points on Bush so he started on Reagan

He said that Reagan ended the cold war and I argued him that the cold war was ready to end and other people prior to Reagan played a roll in ending it.

I'm probably going to get a D in his class :scared:

[WoodrowFan]

38. if you get a D

and you think you don't deserve it, then BITCH BITCH BITCH until you get results.

[Sabriel]

51. I agree; you need to document, document, document

I recommend that you write down the incident and file it with friends and possibly someone higher up, perhaps your advisor. It would help to get corroboration from classmates, as well. It never hurts to plan ahead, not that I'm saying this person will use your political position against you come grade time.... Doesn't hurt to document.
Sabriel

[ghostsofgiants]

39. While we're talking about professors...

Yesterday in my political science class my professor announced a party at a local bar to watch the US election.

"I'm gonna be there. I'll be drunk. If Kerry wins, I may still be drunk in class on Wednesday in celebration. If Bush wins, I might not even show up to class on Wednesday becaus ethere's a good chance I'll end up shooting myself."

It was by far the funniest thing I heard all day.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

40. What an ASSHOLE that professor is.

What kind of class was it and why was it his business to ask everyone to say who they were voting for? What if some weren't comfortable saying?

Asshat. Glad you stood your ground!

[GingerSnaps]

41. It shouldn't be his business

He cut our class short so that he could ask all of us who we were voting for but he knew in advance who my choice was and that is why he left me for last.

[bigwillq]

42. Way to stand your ground

You have done us proud!:)

[GingerSnaps]

43. All of the knowledge from DU

Helped :hug:

[bigwillq]

47. I know. I've learned so much from on these great DUers

And also had a lot of fun in the process.

[DemBones DemBones]

45. It might be a good idea to jot some notes of all that was said today,

and of other strange behaviors by this prof, and go see the dean about him. My thinking is that you go in and tell the dean that you don't want to make any trouble but you're worried that this professor may hold your political opinions against you when it comes time to issue grades for the class. This way, you're launching (ahem) a preemptive strike rather than complaining after you see your grades.

I'm a former college professor and married to another long-time professor and I concur with the other professors who've already stated that your econ prof's political discussions should not be happening in the classroom. I'll go further and say that this professor is engaging in some very unprofessional behavior that the dean should be made aware of. The talk about condoms, tampons, jock straps, etc., can be viewed as sexual harassment. He may only mean to keep students interested but it's obvious that other students are uncomfortable about it, too.

If the professor is basically a good teacher and decent guy, he'll get his act together when the dean speaks to him about what he's done wrong, so you could be doing him a favor that will save his career. Since he's Greek, he has a legitimate reason for not understanding American academic culture, but he needs to stop talking about personal hygiene items as economic examples, and not ask students about their political views.

Even if you decide not to see the dean now, do write down what's been said while it's fresh in your mind; you may need it later. Good luck!

[GingerSnaps]

48. Some people filed a complaint yesterday

I have no idea what it was about but it did have something to do with not being professional. He has been in the US for 25 years and his wife is a 26 year old former student that has two kids by him.

I will stick it out but it's very difficult to understand his points because it always relates to something that you either wear under your clothes or something that you use for sex.

The tampex and kotex example he ended up breaking broke down into products that you would have to buy in order to make each one and which one would be more economical to manufacturer. My train of thought was lost because I was thinking about the tampex and kotex during the rest of the class.

[DemBones DemBones]

49. Just be prepared to defend your grade if necessary. He sounds

like a jerk, and if he's been here 25 years, I don't think he should be cut any slack. If he's a tenured faculty member, the college may be in the position of wishing to get rid of him but can only fire him "for cause," which usually includes moral turpitude and financial exigency.

[barb162]

57. it sure sounds like this twit likes to goad females by the example

of the two products you mention here. I wonder if he ever uses men-only personal hygiene products in his examples.

[GingerSnaps]

58. G-Strings and Bras

He used both as an example of elasticity in a company. It might be a warped sense of humor but it throws you off because you keep thinking about why he would use that as an example.

[barb162]

62. okay now I am really getting angry just reading this sentence

this guy soundslike some woman hater or something. I don't know what his problem is but if he's trying to be cute, he's not cute, if he 's trying to be funny, he isn't. I don't want you to get in trouble, but you might want to report him to the dept. chairman or dean or ??? If a group of students do it together, it adds more gravitas of course. Someone in authority needs to talk to this moron about keeping his sexist crap out of the classroom. No students should be subjected to this HORSESHIT in this day and age. I am so sorry that any student still has to deal with this type of sniggering adolescent behavior by an adult who is in a position of authority.

This shithead could have used jock straps as an example of elasticity. This guy's mind sounds like it is straight out of the 1950s.

[GingerSnaps]

65. His Stats class reported him yesterday

I heard about it in my Western Civilization class. A few of the students were talking about one of the Professors that got reported to the Dean and that he was in some type of trouble. I thought that they meant Economics and they replied no but it's the same Professor that teaches that class. Apparently he made fun of his class not being able to do fractions and he asked if anyone in the class could do calculations on their own.

You should have heard the examples he used to tell us about Monopolistic Competition vs Perfect Competition. Women aka egg carriers were like farmers or agriculture products because we are all alike so we are Perfect Competition (He lost me because my mind started to wonder), Contraceptives are like Monopolistic Competition because they are different but they provide the same service but they are all made for the public and they serve a purpose, Men are like a Monopoly because they have produce sperm (I have no idea what he was talking about).

I have a feeling that a few of us might have to take his class over because I am not getting it at all. I want to take Anthropology but he teaches the class and I will drop the class if i end up with him again.

[barb162]

64. what country is he from and I know you will find out more tomorrow

about the complaint, right? This guy needs to be turned in to the school authorities. Maybe that complaint will do the trick.I gotta know the country he's from. It has to be some "woman walks behind the man" kind of country.

Geez, good luck!!!!!

[GingerSnaps]

67. Greece

But he has been in this country for 25 years.

[barb162]

71. old ways of thinking die hard (if they ever die). look at fundies

[American Tragedy]

46. Hell, that's what I go through in my American Presidency class

every single week. The Hitler Youth (College Republicans) sit behind me, and I just wait for them to start up. We all wind up going back and forth for about half the class and finally the professor tells us to shut up and get back to The Federalist Papers. Today I was even briefly interviewed on local news for one such situation in that course when Fox showed up to do a special on the electoral college. Similarly, I was arguing against my professor's viewpoint, which he's been laying out in the National Review for several weeks.

If you have faith in the strength of your position, you have nothing at all to fear.


edited for typographical error

[DemBones DemBones]

50. Nothing at all to fear. . . except, perhaps, a low grade. nt

[seaj11]

55. How embarrassing...

Kudos to you for staying your ground and getting the word out.

[Reverend_Smitty]

56. I had a similar run-in with a professor today...

It was at the end of class today and he announced that class would be canceled Tuesday so people could go home and vote. Right after saying that he said "vote for Bush"...cue 11 groans (all the people in the class). I told him "you can't be serious!", he went back at the Kerry will let terrorists into the country and under Kerry we will have to pass the global test BS. We went back and forth for a few minutes as we were all walking out of class until I noticed that he had stopped about 10 feet behind me and started talking to someone else. At this point I said something to the effect of "dammit he's not listening anymore, wow do I look like an ass" but all my friends got a kick out of it, so I consider this a victory because he quit first!

Normally this professor is a good guy but we cannot talk politics (we have gotten into similar debates over gun control), and this class isn't even related to politics.

[GingerSnaps]

59. Kudos for you too

I don't think that politics should be allowed to be brought up unless the Instructor is using it as an example and they don't ask about who you are voting for or mention who they are for either.

[Brewman_Jax]

63. Stand strong!

You done good! Especially in front of a live audience and no moderator. Well done! :thumbsup:

[seraph]

66. Good for you!

[Barad Simith]

69. kudos

I wonder what he'll have to say after * loses.

[GingerSnaps]

70. Wait a second

I have his class on Tuesdays & Thursdays so why did he ask us this morning about who we are going to vote for. Why not on Tuesday? I know that he was in the Dean's office yesterday but I don't think that they would get rid of a Professor in the middle of a course would they?

I will let all of you know on Thursday what he has to say about * loosing. LOL