The education of the masses

[Capn Sunshine]

if you recall, the pro-nazi cabal of industrialists and financiers during World War 2 is well documented. We never read of this as children in history class. Never. Further, the importation of Nazis , card carrying documented Nazis, to work for the republicamn party in the late 40s is also well documented. As is their subsequent discovery in Poppy's campaign.

I submit to you it was these propagandists who are responsible for the oft repeated meme we learned as children: "don't compare anything to the Nazis, to do that minimizes the evil of the Nazis (and other variations of this theme)"

Why? because it removes from the vocabulary the most important comparison of fascist action available; the LAST time the fascists gained control and its ultimate outcome.

So, I disagree. Wholeheartedly.

To compare obvious fascists to Nazis does NOT denigrate the memory of anyone or anything. On the contrary , it keeps that memory alive in all its horror.

Does it appear more or less appropriate when you see that evil raising it's head, you invoke the most evil of ultimate outcomes as a reminder that all forms of it must be nipped in the bud?

Well, if one is a Nazi apologist or fascist enthusiast, one can see how you would want the ugly memory of that to just fade away to a retort.

Words have power my friends.

NEVER FORGET. NEVER FORGET.

[tom_paine]

1. Nicely said and spot on, Capn

Interesting that you think the "don't compare anything to Hitler" meme is at least partially inculcated.

Maybe. Certainly there are enough Nazi ties to the Busheviks that it would certainly be beneficial for those following in Hirtler's footsteps (even if they are "kinder and gentler") and for those who had and still ave extensive ties to the Nazis.

Certainly we imported enough high-renking Nazis to be part of our intelligence (Bush-dominated) community.

Hmmm...

[markses]

2. Not for nothing

But the very notion of "educating" the (YIKES!) "masses" is itself mildly fascist in its orientation.

[Capn Sunshine]

5. Yeah, funny how that came out isn't it?

:scared:

[KFC]

3. I think it is a question of degree.

I think people are more comfortable comparing Hitler with Pol Pot, Stalin, and Mao. Fellow multi-million killers.

Bush is a couple of orders of magnitude below that.

[waylon]

4. Ask my jewish neighbor

if he thinks bush's support of Israel's war on terrorism is part of a facist and nazi inspired conspiracy to... to.... what IS your point? How is he a Nazi? One more time for us slow folks.


This type of rhetoric does not help us people, it will kill us in 04!

[Capn Sunshine]

6. The point my disingenuous friend

is that when you see fascism raise it's head we find ourselves conditioned to not compare it to the fascist of yore. At our own peril.

I never mentioned Israel , but Bush's support of Israel? Right. Until he doesnt need them any more.(remember "The Shah"? Saddam?)

And it's not much of a "conspiracy" when you publish your blueprint for war on a website is it?
( http://www.newamericancentury.org/ )

[waylon]

8. Shall we compare you with McCarthy?

Just a thought but it does work both ways.... do you really want to go that route?

[Sir_Shrek]

9. Exactly what I'm talking about here....

"you see fascism raise it's head we find ourselves conditioned to not compare it to the fascist of yore."

Do you think that really resonates? It says nothing about why Bush is a fascist or what makes him a fascist. I just don't think that's effective, and when you're playing recklessly with Nazi comparisons, it does more harm than good. Maybe we don't immediately see negative affects because we're far enough removed from the 1940s that not many people have that kind of vivid recollection, but that still doesn't make it right. The things Hitler is most vividly remembered for are not occurring under Bush.

[LeahMira]

14. Thank you!

I never mentioned Israel, but Bush's support of Israel? Right. Until he doesnt need them any more.

That's exactly how I see it. The Bush family was hand in glove with Nazis during the Second World War. What makes anyone think they've changed now. All they are interested in is making money, and money has no loyalties.

[Must_B_Free]

10. "This type of rhetoric does not help us people, it will kill us in 04!"

not so.

The comparison is made on the basis of accumulation of totalitarian power.

You attempt to define Hitler by the number of murders he instigated. This is only the end product of the madness of the Nazis. What we really mean when we say "Hitler" is the dangers of totalitarianism, of which Hitler is the greatest example.

So the emasculated sons of the south play "commando" and come on here in tightly organized and instructed shifts of propaganda dissemination and spin patrol.

But the root of this point is the similarity in the method of totalitarian power grab, which DEMANDS that Bush be compared to Hitler.

[waylon]

15. It might demand it, but do we need to put the election in jeopardy

to prove a point??? As I said, i could care less if bush called a nazi or facist or a child molester, but it WONT DO US ANY GOOD IN 04.

I dont understand why we dont recognize it now, before its too late (if its not already) They will have a field day with this after the primaries. Florida, heavily Jewish... think about it people, think!


Do we want to play name calling games or win an election?

[LeahMira]

13. Remind your Jewish neighbor...

... that tyrants arise in every generation. Hitler is not the first tyrant to have come up with the idea of persecuting Jewish people. The Jewish People just finished celebrating Hanukkah, a reminder of our victory over an ancient tyrant, and in the first week of March the Jewish People will celebrate Purim, a reminder of another victory. If your Jewish neighbor thinks for one minute that Bush will treat the Jewish People any better than any of these, he simply isn't listening to the "born again" rhetoric coming from this administration and from our fundie pResident. Or refer him to that film about Bush as Nazi that's been linked elsewhere on DU. Here ya go... http://www.takebackthemedia.com/bushnonazi.html

[waylon]

16. I would presume to remind him of anything

nor would i presume to make this comparison. My point is this, it doesnt matter what we think, it matters what every day voters think. You remember them dont you, the folks who dont spend all day consumed in political debate. They watch the news, read the paper, and are swayed by soundbites. How do you think they will respond to the inevitable Rove retaliation on the headline, "Dems call Bush Hitler"?

I cant believe this is such a topic of debate, I would think its fairly obvious.

[Sir_Shrek]

7. Fine, roll with it....

It won't work.

But instead of putting pictures of Bush petting a dog next to Hitler petting a dog on TV as some sort of valid comparison, get detailed. It's not wrong to do it if it's really there. But you need to go beyond "Bush is a fascist, and Hitler was a fascist so THERE!".....that's just utterly ridiculous.

Frankly, this place scares me sometimes.

[Capn Sunshine]

11. If you would READ what the links lead to

maybe you would understand.

Fascism is always a danger, and pretending denial that it is so, is just naive.

I'm not saying Bush is a fascist , just that his administration seems to be doing everything in it's power to behave that way.

So figure it out for yourself. One man's fascist is another man's member of the Carlye Group board. I think the comparisons are apt. The imagery , which is so much a part of propaganda, is chilling.

Know what convinced me? Nazi propagandist genius Lili Riefenstahl's opening scenes of Triumph of the Will.

Compare it to the carrier landing of our great heroic warrior caommander in chief. The symbolic imagery is almost identical.

Coincidence? You tell me. The* adminsitration has been the most remarkable environment for coincidence.

[nolabels]

12. Should we compare him to Nixon then?

Just thought I throw this in
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A57169-2004Jan5.html

No Word From Bush On Forms in Leak Probe
FBI Tactic Encourages Reporters to Talk

By Mike Allen
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, January 6, 2004; Page A04

ABOARD AIR FORCE ONE, Jan. 5 -- White House press secretary Scott McClellan declined to say Monday whether President Bush thinks his aides should sign forms that would release reporters from any pledges of confidentiality regarding the leak of the identity of CIA operative Valerie Plame.
(snip)

Nixon and his buddy Henry k knocked off quite few folks in their time also, it just isn't as well domcumented because of who is writing history at the present time.

Is Henry Kissinger a war criminal, fascist or just misunderstood
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=345935