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DuctapeFatwa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-03 12:40 AM
Original message
Photo Tricks Betray the 'Saddam' Psyop
In a December 17th article entitled 'The Saddam Hussein Capture Hoax', Ernesto Cienfuego wrote:

"The CIA photograph..., clearly shows a tree full of ripe dates which in Iraq ripen in late July or early August and never in December. The picture also shows a rope with hanging meat for drying. Our Iraqi sources informed us that this occurs always in the summer and never in December."

That conclusion is dead wrong. In fact, that is the exact conclusion desired by the psyop team who constructed this piece of photo trickery. Take a look at the photo again. The dates are hanging into the picture way too deliberately. One clue was enough. Two like this was overkill.

A rat odor is wafting around again. Can you smell it?



http://www.gulufuture.com/saddam-tricks.htm
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-03 12:45 AM
Response to Original message
1. So where was the photo taken??
I have never seen it before?
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ochazuke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-03 12:56 AM
Response to Original message
2. Calling all experts!
Does anyone know about date trees and the right time of year to hang meat?
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Cronus Protagonist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-03 01:04 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. It doesn't matter - the site claims they don't have Saddam at all
Which, if true, would be totally embarrassing for Bush, and hence, with all the pr work going on, it totally unbelievable.

"Terminate Governor Gangbang" Buttons, Stickers & Magnets
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-03 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #2
19. Hang meat?
Does that happen before or after the dates? I'm trying to figure this out...


"In Paris they simply stared when I spoke to
them in French; I never did succeed in
making those idiots understand their own
language."
- Mark Twain
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-03 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. lol....................Spiral
that Mark Twain quote is priceless !
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lotteandollie Donating Member (73 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-03 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #19
28. Thank you.
Classic.
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althecat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-03 12:58 AM
Response to Original message
3. I Love Gulu Future.....
Fintan Dunne rocks!!!

You really need to read this piece it is deliciously subtle... and concludes that Saddam may not have been captured at all...
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FDRrocks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-03 01:10 AM
Response to Original message
5. Ah propaganda...
I love it. So beautiful and so obvious. I love watching stupid people eat it up.

I looked forward to much of it 1-3 months before the November elections next year, you know, when they 'find' Osama.

Orwell was a genius. The majorities mind are controlled by shit like this. He saw it coming. I see it coming and starting. Sick world we live in.
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KC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-03 01:17 AM
Response to Original message
6. Strange
I read an article that said the soldiers saw a white blanket by
a tree with red flowers. Wonder where that tree is in that picture..do fig trees have red flowers?
All of it seems odd to me .

KC
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FDRrocks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-03 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Saddam chose living in a hole over imunity?
Thats the first question I asked. Look at his actions as a rich leader. Look at the spider hole. Look at his options. Tell me he chose to hide in a hole in the ground.

It all reeks of bullshit to me.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-03 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #7
22. And, not a cigar was mentioned. Cigar smokers would never be far away
Edited on Sun Dec-21-03 08:23 PM by KoKo01
from their "pleasure." While not being as addictive as cigarettes, a "smoker" of whatever preference would certainly have a "stash" somewhere near by in a time of stress. The "dandy" that Saddam presented himself as with the fastidious appearance, the silk suits etc., and the Cuban cigars which were ever present, wouldn't hide in a whole unless he had the last memory of his grand life before. Cigars are small and they would be the one thing he could take with him to ease his time, and remind him of when he was "King."

That was the most suspicious thing to me. No mention of the cigars.
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-03 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. Once again... there are a couple of red flowering shrubs/
trees that are blooming right now in th Middle East...
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-03 01:27 AM
Response to Original message
8. Sorry, but unpicked dates stay on the tree and dry like that
if they aren't picked.

There are some in the palms outside my villa right now...
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ochazuke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-03 01:53 AM
Response to Reply #8
14. What color are they?
I found that they are usually harvested in August in Iraq, but later in the USA. They are said to be yellow in the summer, and turn darker later in the year.

If the photo was taken in summer, most likely Saddam was captured then and it was kept under wraps while he was squeezed for info and Baathists had their guard down.

Seems bleeding unlikely though.
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Code_Name_D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-03 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #8
18. But if Iraqis are hurting for food.
Why were these dates not picked? Such an obveuse food source should have been picked clean.
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Dirk39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-03 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. Hello,
"The farmers affirmed that plenty of yellow dates exist now and will remain so until the end of March. They explained that the lack of fertilisation hampered the process of ripening by which the dates converted from hard yellow to a brown soft. The unfertilised dates called (Shees) or unripe dates. It will remain yellow for long time until the end of March. This was the case in the tree near Saddam's hiding place. It was like many other trees ignored (not been fertilised) due to the war. The usual process of fertilisation in Iraq carried out manually by taking the seeds dust from the males and put it in the flowers of the females. This process carried out individually from one tree to another by one person or more. The farmers added that the members of the previous regime ignored their farms due to the war so remained unfertilised."

Posted by: Sam / 12/21/2003 05:27:11 AM
http://globalresearch.ca/articles/ATW312A.html

Hello from Germany,
Dirk
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-03 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #8
24. JCMach1, I thought you said the birds had picked your trees clean and
you were thinking the story was true? Didn't you post yesterday? :shrug:
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K-W Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-03 01:30 AM
Response to Original message
10. Everything thats going on in Iraq is too much under admins control
we need to start calling it what it is, a disaster no matter what happens now and focus on domestic issues.
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FDRrocks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-03 01:33 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Brevity! Well said.
Welcome to DU, since I haven't seen ya. The administration is spinning at a rate that would make Goebbels head hurt. No information from the current war should be trusted. None in the past was reliable.
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-03 01:36 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. There may be conspiracy involved in his capture,,,,
but these photos are more than likely just fine...

Just peel a few layers of tinfoil please...
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FDRrocks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-03 01:55 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. Peel layers of whatever.
Address my post a little ways up. Roves only real purpose is for propagnda, and when they 'find' Usama right before the elections, I'll send you a PM that gloats. Saddam coudl've been free. He had a half a year to decide what decision he wanted. He either lived in a and didn't lead the resistance in Iraq, as they say he has. Or he has been in there, under control. Peel of a few layers of ignorance. (Purely for a retort, mind you)
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Yupster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-22-03 02:36 AM
Response to Reply #15
38. I was sure that
when Bush gave him 48 hours to leave the country, he'd fly out at the last moment. I was stunned he stayed to fight.

I think the problem is that when you're a dictator everyone just tells you what you want to hear and you get detached from reality. I bet he wishes he would have left now.

He could be living in a villa and hoping to return in triumph when the US leaves. Instead, it looks liek a show trial in Baghdad and an execution.
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suigeneris Donating Member (471 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-03 01:51 AM
Response to Original message
13. Not Sure of the Facts on Dates
The first two statements below apply to fruit harvested in California but much of it from cultivars from Iraq. There is nothing conclusive here but it does look like we need more info, specifically on Iraq.

From http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/morton/Date.html

"A number of pickings may have to be made over a period of several weeks. In the Coachella Valley, dates ripen from late September through December ..."

http://waynesword.palomar.edu/ecoph10.htm

"Pollinated dates are harvested throughout the fall months, from September to December."

From a Pakistani site: http://www.pakistaneconomist.com/issue2002/issue48&49/i...

"In 2003, Ramadan-ul-Mubarak will commence on around 28th October. The fruit is harvested in most date producing countries, other than Pakistan, in September/October. In view of these facts, global buyers of dates are keenly searching for early fresh crop supplies. Pakistan has a natural advantage. Dates ripen here as early as in the month of July. Our exporters can well make first shipments in August."

http://pestdata.ncsu.edu/cropprofiles/docs/cadates.html
"Dates ripen from August 20 December 15th "
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-03 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #13
26. I did a "Google" on Iraqi Dates after JMach1's post about the yellow dates
Edited on Sun Dec-21-03 08:44 PM by KoKo01
yesterday. Seems the variety that grows in Iraq could take December or longer to ripen, and their color traditionally is "yellow." So, unless you knew exactly where the photo was taken and could locate a farmer in the area, it would be hard to know.

The "Hamurabi (Iraqi Culture) web site says that the "yellow dates" is bogus because farmers in the area said dates could be unripened until March. But, for all I know "Hamurabi" could be a Chalabi friendly web site and it's in their interest to "debunk the story."
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Must_B_Free Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-03 02:39 AM
Response to Original message
16. here the pic
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RBHam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-03 03:00 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. The guy on the right can't keep a straight face
No way fat saddam could have crawled in and out of that hole.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-03 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #17
27. Hey, some of us on this post might be avid mystery readers. This
is the kind of thing that would bring Agatha out of her grave. So, it doesn't hurt to speculate and put our heads together pointing out inconsistencies.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-03 08:36 PM
Response to Original message
23. I don't know about that "Gulu" site, ( a little strange) but they do make
a point that's worth thinking about. And, look at those soldiers hefting up a cement block as if it's a featherweight. Anyone here ever lifted any cement? That thing is like a small bathtub. Very heavy if it was cement. Those guys would be straining big time. Instead they look like it's a Prop." And those dates do seem a little "colorful and in your face." :shrug:
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lotteandollie Donating Member (73 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-03 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. They are very fit...
and of course thats the foam block that was over Saddam's hole that.
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karlschneider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-03 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. I will certainly keep it in mind when I build a bomb shelter, to use foam
as a protective doorway. Not that I do not believe that was a styrofoam block, it seems just a tad unlikely he would have specified it be used.
But why would a guy with 3/4 Million US Dollars in a suitcase settle for such primitive digs, especially after 3 decades of palatial comfort?

He could have bought a bit of comfort with a few hundred bucks and a pledge of secrecy for a thousand more. All humans are whores, the only question is price.
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nhtfopo Donating Member (39 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-21-03 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. It's not a bomb shelter
It's a hiding place. If you look at the diagrams, he wasn't even under that opening, just a shaft to get to where he was hiding in a room to the side. Look at Dirk1's post above. It actually has links to facts, not the ridiculous gulu site that doesn't link any facts at all.
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-22-03 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #25
31. Why two guys to lift it?
It seems strange, considering a piece of styrafoam that size couldn't weigh more than a kg or so.
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BrotherBuzz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-22-03 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. Teamwork
Edited on Mon Dec-22-03 12:47 AM by BrotherBuzz
You know, An Army of One. </sarcasm>

on edit: welcome to DU and that </sarcasm> thingy wasn't directed at you.
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Yupster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-22-03 02:38 AM
Response to Reply #23
39. That's mostly because
it was a prop. It was made of styrophome and painted to look like a brick.
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-22-03 12:59 AM
Response to Original message
33. Other photos show reporters wearing coats.
I will have to see if this checks out.
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-22-03 01:01 AM
Response to Original message
34. About the date harvest
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anarchy1999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-22-03 01:06 AM
Response to Original message
35. Somebody help me
I taped Wednesday's newest edition to South Park on Comedy Central.

I watched it for the first time tonight, and noticed a wild scene.
Saddam's face from day old photos, captured with beard, is used prominently as is a storyline that includes a song about America capturing Saddam. This is a new episode and designed to be the Christmas episode, airing the Wednesday after the Sunday we first saw any video.

If animation is done in Japan or California, it has to be storyboarded and scripted at least a month before animators are done with it. While I realize South Park explodes with the crudest of animation technique, how is it POSSIBLE to get these plot points in an episode slated to broadcast in a mere 72 hours?

?!?!?

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lazarus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-22-03 01:47 AM
Response to Reply #35
36. They use computer animation
And are able to do an episode, start to finish, in under 5 days.
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DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-22-03 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #36
43. The 9/11 turnaround was lightning fast also
When you don't even have shading, animating a cartoon can be done super quick.
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-22-03 02:16 AM
Response to Original message
37. FWIW, the soldiers sure look like they're dressed for December.
Gloves and all...
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-22-03 06:44 AM
Response to Original message
40. DU busted this hoax wide open 3 days ago...now they are spinning it that
Edited on Mon Dec-22-03 07:14 AM by ElsewheresDaughter
"the Kurds captured Saddam and kept him drugged so that US troops could find him" ...blurb on MSNBC this morning

my question ....why would the Kurds do such a thing?...why wouldn't they either want the glory and why didn't they exact their justice laws and kill Saddam themselves?....something still smells very fishy about the new "we got'im" story
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OldSoldier Donating Member (982 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-22-03 07:04 AM
Response to Reply #40
41. Favorable concessions from the US Military
If you make the boss look good, good things happen to you.

If they would have just shot the SOB, or pulled his ass out of wherever he was and frog marched him into Paul Bremer's office, the Kurds would have received all the credit for the removal of Saddam but the US wouldn't have been seen as the savior of the Iraqi people. But letting the US catch the bastard makes us look like heroes.

When the US finally decides to give Iraq an oil company of its own, Kurds will be running it because, after all, the Sunnis and Shia didn't do anything to round up Saddam!
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Matilda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-22-03 08:22 AM
Response to Reply #41
42. Latest news says the Kurds want Kirkuk. Of course they do.
It belonged to them until Saddam forced them out and moved Arabs in.
And it has lots of oil.

Smart thinking. But I don't like their chances - what do they think
this war was about?
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maxanne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-22-03 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #42
44. how did
Saddam get in and out of that hole without a ladder?
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