As a Kucinich man, let me say a word about Dean...

[benburch]

Dr. Dean is NOT an evil man.

Dr. Dean is NOT a dishonest man.

Dr. Dean is just NOT my first choice. This is based upon policy differences, not supposed character flaws.

And I wish people would stop trashing him and start differentiating your candidate's platforms from his based on POLICY.

In other words, build up your candidate, don't tear down another!

-Ben Burch
White Rose Society Webmaster

[beyurslf]

1. Excellent post thank you. n/t

[Wetzelbill]

2. Right on! I'm a DK man, who is slightly critical of Dean

however, I recognize he would make an excellent president either way.

[ErasureAcer]

3. I think being in favor of murder is wrong

Dean should be ashamed he is in favor of the death penalty.

It is an evil act.

[GreenPartyVoter]

7. It's not great

but neither is abortion.

Personally I'd like to see the death penalty done away with and the need for abortions to just plummet.

[benburch]

10. I prefer to think...

... that Dr. Dean is simply wrong on the Death Penalty issue, and that he can be enlightened.

[Ardee]

42. I prefer a different course

You seem to think that a candidates stances on issues are less than relevent because, some time in the nebulous future that candidate can be weaned of these stances. I doubt that this will be the case,I would expect his presidency to mirror his governorship and that is not something I will vote for in the primaries.

[cjbuchanan]

4. I hope more people take up your advice

Thanks for your wisdom.

[TNOE]

5. Agree 100%

I wish for a Dennis Kucinish presidency - but will be happy with Dean. ANYONE BUT BUSH.

[wysimdnwyg]

6. Well said!

I'm a big Dean supporter, but I like DK a lot, as well. I hope that, once Dean is elected, he finds a good cabinet position for the very honorable Congressman from Ohio. Perhaps as head of the new Department of Peace.

[dansolo]

14. Don't we still need people like Kucinich in Congress?

Winning the Presidency is only half the battle. We still have Tom Delay and Bill Frist to deal with, and we need people like Dennis Kucinich who will stand up against them. Don't downplay the importance of where he is.

[wysimdnwyg]

16. I agree, but

I would hope that DK's departure from Congress would open up a spot for some other Dem to join. I would really only advocate a Dem leaving Congress if another Dem is poised to take their place. (OK, maybe Zell Miller could leave, but he doesn't really count.)

[GreenPartyVoter]

18. We need to flood the Hill

with progressives no matter what.

[Nadienne]

27. Exactly

It is the only way we are going to get anything done. No matter who wins, the battle will be up hill all the way unless and until we give them a congress they can work with.

btw, Kucinich pretty much pointed this out when I saw him. Have other candidates brought this up?

[Wetzelbill]

33. yikes, The Z-Word

What profanity!

[stinkeefresh]

23. heck yes!

I'm a Dean supporter, but I think DK is a hero and needs to keep standing tall. He and CMBraun I will watch for the next decade. Important Americans, with important things to say.

[Padraig18]

8. Awesome post, Ben!

And FWIW, I think DK is one helluva guy and a great Congressman, just not my first choice. :)

[Salviati]

9. Hear Hear!

Your excellent post reflects well on your character, as well as on the candidate that you've chosen to support.

(It seems that most Kucinich supporters are similarly well mannered in my experiance, some of the other candidates supporters would do well to take a lesson from you)

In my opinion, virtually all the candidates would make an excellent president, and every last one of them would be head and shoulders above the miserable failure we've got in there now.

[spychoactive]

11. this thread is one more reason i back DK

part of why i am in the Kucinich camp is the hope, and open-minded attitude his supporters display...our party is fragmented enough, and DK supporters are by far the most positive

if we spend the entire primaries ripping the other candidates, we'll end up with a stink on whomever makes it...

keep it positive, no matter who you do or don't back and we'll all be better off for it

one love
spike

[Ficus]

12. I agree

but it's kinda fun to watch the Clark versus Dean flame wars, even though it's not very productive. I seriously doubt that anyone has changed their mind based on some DU flame war.

Dean is not evil - I hope other Democrats don't think this.

[Hep]

25. DO you really hope that?

Because it's a pretty common theme here.

[Ficus]

34. yes

not a huge Dean fan, but no, he's not evil. I hope no one thinks any of the candidates are EVIL - because they aren't.

[Droopy]

13. Nice post, Ben

As a DK supporter, I feel the same way. Dean will have my vote if he gets the nomination, but for now I'm going with somebody who I think represents me better.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Paulie]

19. AMEN

I love ya Ben, but seriously, if he can't handle the heat from people who like him, then he is TOAST when the facists take aim.

Any other canidate other than Kucinich is not even on the radar screen for me. Lets see these front runners actually win some PRIMARIES, before we start endowing them any support.

The only nice thing I can say about Dean is atleast he isn't a DLC whimp. :) His policies are weak, but he doesn't wear a pink tutu. :)

[benburch]

24. I hope I misunderstand you?

I hope you don't mean that I'm being a "pussy" (Awful term to use, a "pussy" is such a NICE body part) because I refuse to say that Dean is evil, or because I wish people would move their arguments to actual issues of substance that differentiate their candidate from the others???

-Ben

[JanMichael]

26. You did misunderestimate me. I was just yanking Will's chain.

While I know Bushco will fire a withering moneypowered, smear, demonize campaign on the eventual candidate, the likes of which we've never seen, I think the DU sniping has degenerated into juvenile hatred on some people's part. Dean ought not to be the ENEMY of Clarkies just as Clark ought not to be the enemy of Deanies. That goes for all of the candidates and their DU supporters.

The Real World is hateful enough IMHO.

[WilliamPitt]

28. I would never use the word 'pussies.'

It's demeaning to women.

Otherwise, you're spot-fucking-on. If the level of toughness I see here on DU is indicative of our fighting trim in general, we're doomed, and we deserve to be doomed.

[JanMichael]

29. Drat. You're right.

I actually was at a point to change "pussies" to "pansies" but that didn't sound right either. My bad.

BTW you know I'm just fooling around, yes? All in good fun.

[WilliamPitt]

45. Yeah

:)

[VelmaD]

47. Not a bad Will Pitt impersonation...

just learn to sing Led Zeppelin (badly) and add a couple of wagga-wagga's and you can take your act on the road. ;-)

[benburch]

36. Lack of fighting trim?

Will,

Respectfully, I don't see where wanting to debate policy indicates a lack of fighting trim!!!

I don't think you will find a group of people who will more fiercely stand by their candidate and aggressively debate points of policy than we in the Dennis Kucinich camp!

It helps that our cadidate is the best man for the job, and that his policies are the only ones that make any sense, of course!

But we are willing to help the misguided find their way rather than calling them names.

-Ben

[redqueen]

37. Well said.

Thanks for standing up against the use of misogynistic insults and also against liberal spinelessness! :)

[JanMichael]

43. Hey it was in jest. I was in "Mocking Mode".

Perhaps not wise but certainly not intentially mysogynistic!

Bygones?

[redqueen]

44. No offense taken

I knew you were joking. :)

Besides, I don't take offense to this as I understand that that the situation is so out of control. If there were more awareness (as is the case with racial issues), then I might take offense.

As for now, I simply thank people when they acknowledge the problem. :)

[VelmaD]

46. Thanks Will...

wanted to add my appreciation of you standing up against language that demeans women. *smooches* You're one of the good guys.

Agree though that otherwise he hit the nail squarely on the head.

[spychoactive]

30. being positive...

does not require balls, it requires heart...

you yourself call it crap...

my $.02

[demnan]

17. Real good of you

to be in favor of Dean over Nader.

I've seen some posts from people who threaten to go over to the Nader side if Kucinich doesn't get the nomination.

[JohnKleeb]

22. sigh pisses me off too

I admit the party hasn't been in tune with me lets say lol the last 30 years hehe but I will support the nominee.

[truthspeaker]

20. thank you!

Let's keep this about issues, not mud, and most importantly keep our eyes on the prize - pruning the Shrub in 2004.

[Paulie]

21. The Prize is the NOD

Bush is AFTER. Can't put the cart before the horse. :) :)

[redqueen]

39. I would love to see issues addressed more seriously

But it seems most just aren't interested. :shrug:

[info being]

31. I agree with you 100%

I have nothing against Dean's character. As a Kucinich supporter, ts his platform that makes me uncomfortable. Imagine that...someone who votes issues over personality.

[petrock2004]

32. very important

i think it's really good to point those things out. after all, what are the GOP's problems? they're evil, dishonest, and my LAST choice. :D teehee

i'm leaning towards clark, because i think he's got the foreign policy background we need right now, and because he's conservative enough to maybe sway some swing voters. but i don't playa-hate. all of the candidates deserve respect for putting themselves out there in the first place. and dean, if he wins the nomination, i think it's in the best interest of every democrat to stand behind him supportively.

and in all honesty, i grew up in the cleveland area and have never really taken kucinich seriously. but after listening to his POLICY ideas (:D) i think his heart is definitely in the right place.

haha or let's just have a democratic candidate love fest!! i'll bring the oils, you bring the sultry music...

we can talk about policy after... grrrrrrrowl!!!!! ;-)

[sandnsea]

35. Can Kerry get real?

That's a thread posted right now with a complete distortion saying Kerry is for unilateral war. The damage done to Kerry and Gephardt over the Osama ads can't be undone. The statements by the campaign in the newspapers were ignored until the teevee actually reported them. There's alot of trashing going on around here and has been forever. Poor Dean has led the way. I won't stop saying so, I don't care how many people throw temper tantrums.

[PissedOffPollyana]

38. Got to agree there!

Though I may have issues with Dr. Dean's proposed policies and am not fond of the pressure many of us are receiving to bail on our chosen candidates before a vote, there is no place for ad hominem attacks. It belittles us.

Besides, it would be refreshing to talk about the issues and the candidates' stands on them for a change. We cannot shrink from criticism, but it should be based in fact and as constructive as possible. That goes for the party as well.

As to issues with statements of the possibility of members leaving the party to vote 3rd, I think it is warranted and should not be discouraged. This is a slice of reality that needs to be faced if the Dem party wants the base and validity it has had in the past. Those of us disgusted by the corporate direction we have taken have every right to voice our dismay and remind those who would like to keep a right-of-liberal position that some of their base is not a done deal unless we are represented. Loyalty is earned. I am only still IN the Dem party because of Dennis Kucinich and those like him (P.Wellstone & R. Feingold come to mind).

I'm not saying that I will flee if my candidate does not win; that's immature and unrealistic. But I am not a sure bet either and I am not alone. I think the party needs to hear this as much as possible in order to start rethinking which issues they will finally give a little ground on. Reasonable, no?

[redqueen]

40. Disagree

Don't think we need to trash him unnecessarily. Though defending against trash is rather good practice for the GE, for surely that will be the most common tactic to defend against...

My main disagreement is the part about Dean being dishonest. I think he is. But so are most politicians.

[spychoactive]

41. critical mass...

if all of us in the kicinich camp stay positive, things will continue to build as they are now, there is definitely a groundswell of support for DK...

left AND right at the same time!

(right=correct in this instance)

[MuseRider]

50. I am sensing

that as well. It is difficult to not be positive when you immerse yourself in his campaign. I often have to watch 5 minutes of CNN to bring myself back to the awful reality (just kidding).

[Cha]

48. Thank you, benburch!

:yourock:

[rbnyc]

49. I agree.

How many times does this have to be said?