How Far Are They Willing To Go.....

[TheWatcher]

As the days go by, the lies get worse, more bold....Hell these people don't even try to hide it anymore.....Their actions become more brazen, more deliberate......

The country becomes more and more divided, possibly more so than at any time in our history......

People on this board, and many people I know are becoming genuinely frightened about where all of this is going.....We tapdance around the worst case scenarios a lot on this board, and I really understand why sometimes, because I really don't think we all want to think about it.....About what the ultimate aims of this cabal might actually be.....Because if they decide to go for everyhing, there will be little we can really do to stop them at this point, and God knows what the fallout and consquences will be.....

The question that has been on my mind a lot lately, is "How far are these people willing to go?".....

It's that simple.....I know that our country has survived so much throughout history without self-destructing, but I'm wondering if this time it's different, especially with these people.....

I simply do not believe this current administration, this current power structiure, is going to give up Power lawfully and peacefully.....I simply cannot believe this....We see signs of it every day.....We see signs of it in the Senate, The House, on the Streets of Miami, or through the propagandist Media, everywhere.....

The warrning bells are starting to ring.....LOUD.....

And let's say our side DOES pull off a victory next year.....Surely we cannot believe the other side will take it and accept it.....I don't think they will this time.....Not after what happened in December of 2000.....Not after what has occurred over the past three years...not after they have become this emboldened....

I am truly beginning to believe if the current power structure cannot have things there way they would rather destroy this country rather than let something take thier place.....If they have the ability to steal elections, and basically do whatever the hell they want.....

Why wouldn't they?....Why won't they?.....

And if this is the case, what are we going to do about it?.....

The answers are probably NOT something you want to discuss openly on a forum, but they are questions and answers we should all be asking within ourselves.....No one wants to believe that the worst will take place and our 227 year experiment is going to end, or perhaps has already ended, but we have to be prepared for the possibility.....

There are some on this board who believe a second Civil War is a possibility, if not a probablity in this country.....

I don't want to beleive it, but I can no longer discount it, or anything these people are capable of, or the blind Sheep that follow them.....

I am becoming very frightened for our future.....

[Faygo Kid]

1. Wish I could provide comfort

but I can't. I believe your fears are well grounded. Our job is not to get caught up in tinfoil theories; we must remain grounded. For instance, I believe the fears regarding Diebold and rigging the machines generally are legitimate, and ought to be focused on. That's one non-tinfoil example. We must retain credibility. Reality is fearsome enough.

[TheWatcher]

2. It truly is......

And I'm really not trying to dig up or start any tinfoil reflection here......

We cannot allow ourselves to fall into despair or these bastards have already won.....

There have been other regimes in the past that have been as bad or much, much worse, and they failed and crumbled, and I have no doubt that this current crop of "Rule The World" wannabees is no more deified and omnipotent than thier predecessors.....

However, the one thing that disturbs me is the empowerment that these people are given through the compliance and apathy of the majority of the population, and a Media that is completely compliant and a willing participant in the current Power Grab.....

If they are to be stopped, THAT must change.....If the people want their country back, it is going to be up to THEM, ALL OF US, to take it back.....The frustating thing for most of us is that most don't seem to realize it's been stolen.....This continued unconsciousness does not bode well for our future.....

On edit: Spelling Corrected

[kentuck]

3. Free press !

Please help us! Yeah, sure!

[evil_orange_cat]

4. don't worry, if they want to take it to the next level, they will lose...

there are more people than you know who won't stand for a police state... liberals and some conservatives alike would put aside their differences to fight tyranny

[Jacobin]

5. Hate to break this to ya, but in the year 2000, the country

suffered a coup d'etat staged by five corrupt supreme court judges, Jeb Bush, and friends and our democracy ended.

2/3 of the Dem congresscritters are so purchased by corporate interests that they can't giggle without getting permission from their contibutors. That goes 99% for the repukes.

Game over.

[BeHereNow]

9. I second that-

It is not about how to defeat them,
it is now about how to survive their plans.
Anyone who doesn't comprehend that is
simply not fully informed or delusional.
The situation is blacker than a stack of crows
at the bottom of well on a moonless night.
We used to say, "Well it's definitely going to get worse
before it gets better."
Now we just say, "It's going to get worse."

BHN

[Minstrel Boy]

6. How far have they gone?

They're operating openly and without fear outside the law and the constitution. I have no illusions about these criminals being stopped by something as quaint as "the will of the people." That belonged to another time. It's not politics as usual anymore. Hell, it's not even politics.

How far will they go? They're going all the way.

[TheWatcher]

8. I Have No Doubt They Will.....

And that is what frightens me.....

And that is that this time is diffferent.....

The fact that they have been ABLE to operate without fear outside the law and the constitution to me signals that we may have already lost.....How do you take back the riegns by playing by the rules if the opposition plays by none, and is willing to do the unthinkable, whatever that may be, to accomplish it's goals.....Pray that they decide not to chance it?.....

This begs the question.....What WILL stop these people.....

I admire and adore the spirit of this forum and it's people.....I really do.....I don't post much but I have visited daily since 9/11, and it to me it is one of the few refuges left for logical discourse.....

But at this late date I really have to question if we are just kidding ourselves if we think an election is going to put a stop to this.....There is no way we should give up hope, but I wonder if we have accepted the scope of what we are truly up against.....

Similar cabals required a bit more of an elaborate solution.....

[Droopy]

7. You know I used to think

that what Republicans really wanted to do was roll back all of the Democratic victories of the 20th century and put us back to a time when we had very little government involvement in the economy and our society. I thought what they wanted was just a government that created laws and protected us with a military and that's it. No social welfare programs, no EPA. I think that is what old school Republicans really want. But now with these neo-cons it's hard to say. They seem to be giving lip service to minimal government involvement, but they create unecessary laws (Patriot Act) and start new government agencies (Homeland Security) and spend a ton of money that we don't have on a war that most of the world agreed was unnecessary. I don't know where they're headed.

[maggrwaggr]

10. bullies are cowards

and these people are bullies.

If anyone stands up to them they will back off.

They will hire others to fight dirty for them, but ultimately it's up to us to stand up to them and, well, cage them.

The country hasn't awakened yet. I think that in 2004 that it might.

If it doesn't in 2004, we are truly, deeply, fucked.

That's when I'm done with this place.

[radfringe]

11. we are in a civil war

the country is divided

the civil war is being fought in Congress and in the media - it's a battle for the hearts and minds of Americans

I know alot of people that "support" Bush* simply because of the TERROR factor - but when I ask them if there was no terror threat would they support Bush* - they say no

[VOX]

12. Look what the did during the Clinton years -- he was under constant attack

First, it was Newt and the "Contract with America" crap; Clinton's second term was about dodging smear-merchants, and they finally tripped him over sex. All that time, Democrats had to fight a defensive action.

The RW wants *total* control, and they will stop at nothing. That is the reality. That is what we're faced with.

[SoCalDem]

13. This did not start with Clinton...

It started with Watergate.. These folks hold grudges.. They would have been right at home with the "Hundred Year War" folks.. Watergate pissed them off, and we have been paying for it ever since.. Back then the media jumped on the story and did not let go (like now).. Republicans were all tarnished by that whole episode (even if some were actually supporting the investigation),, I think they "saw the light" about media control back then and have spent 30+ years working behind the scenes to ensure that it never happens again...TO THEM..

Clinton was really just a dry run.. a way to get their ducks in a row and prove that is could be done in a big way.. They went after Carter, but it was easy with him, and Carter never really inspired "strong feelings" in his democratic supporters.. He was a nice guy, a smart guy, too, but not the charismatic figure that Clinton was..

You could even go back to Kennedy, (if you are into the conspiracy thing), because the whole plan works for that era too.. If one goes that far back, it makes the whole plan even MORE deadly to us.. If they are willing to assassinate to try and advance their agenda, we are really in trouble.. I don't go quite that far, because "virtual assassination" is just as effective, if not moreso..

They went after Clinton even before he was elected, but then I think they thought all along that Poppy would eke out a narrow victory..
When he did not, they went after Clinton with everything they had for the whole term.. Clinton's biggest failing, was the fact that he had advance warning, and he still gave them the opening they needed.. He was not brought down, but he was so weakened that a lot of things he COULD have accomplished, wentr undone , or underdone, because he had no support from congress, or maybe he knew they would not be supported, so he just did not even try to ..

If the press is a willing accomplice, you can really get the job done, and they ARE.. The "liberal press" moniker that they hang on Dems is a total joke..just like "healthy (but treeless) forests" legislation.. We see it , but we are LOOKING for it..Most people just hear "news" as background noise.. It's reminiscent of the old self hypnosis tapes.

We all know how frustrated we are when we see news stories that are NOT covered, and the excess to which SOME are covered.. THAT is the result of owning the media..

They can be bold and audacious now, because they know they can get away with it..

They got away with the Clinton witch hunt..
They got away with the "recount" nonsense
They got away with the SCOTUS appointment
They got away with the tax cuts
They got away with the Patriot Act
They got away with the war nonsense

They have NO PLANS to ever turn the reins over to the dems, folks.. There is no way in HELL that a republican congress would enact legislation that gives SO much power to a president, unless they "knew" that president would always be "one of theirs"..

Think about this:

They have the house
They have the senate
They have most governorships
They plan to pack the court with fundy judges who "see things their way"
They have the BBV well underway to help "their people" get elected
They have the white house
They have the pollsters
They have the press
They have the radio
They have the power to dictate what we see on tv (CBS movie, etc)
They have the money necessary to "buy" what they need
They have the Patriot act , which limits OUR right to even complain about them..

I could go on, but you see the difficulty..

We could run Jesus Christ reincarnate, and would have a hard time getting him elected, with the hurdles we have ahead.

[Karenina]

14. It is REAL to me

that the *cabal that has seized the American government will STOP AT NOTHING to maintain its power. If the planet and the life upon it are destroyed in the process the *fascists DO NOT CARE. The power they wield is a threat to the entire globe. The choices are STOP THEM or DIE. The stumbling block is convincing people of the reality that confronts us all.

[Q]

15. To determine the answer to your question

...one must first ask: how much can they get away with?

- The success of a 'criminal enterprise' is dependent on the quality of justice. When the justice system fails there's nothing to stop corruption.

[Solomon]

16. "How Far Are They Willing To Go?"

They blew up the WTC for chrissakes. What do you mean "how far are they willing to go?"

[BeFree]

17. The end is...

Empire.

Human history is full of examples of elitists making efforts to become the world's sole empire. History is repeating, again.

The People have allowed the current elites an open door onto the world stage. Empire now has a foot in the door.

Time and again, usually through great loss of life and property, the door has been slammed shut on empire. It will be that way again, it is just a question of time.

Problem is, this time, empire has the means to manifest itself in the most powerful way. The amount of money directed into empire's bank account -- $500 Billion this year alone -- has greatly expanded their foothold.

Until such time as empire's financial backing is eliminated, empire will remain strong. Not until the People turn against empire, will empire be put back in the dark closet of history.

When shall we begin? This is our generation's main question.

[onecitizen]

18. Well, alot of us have been worried..........

since before 2000 election. Now, we know why. How far will they go? As far as they can. They always overreach and end up failing. They have been emboldened by having all 3 branches of government under their control. People are beginning to wake up I think(I hope).

[TheWatcher]

19. People are beginning to wake up.....

But there are simply not enough of us.....

One of the biggest problems we seem to have in this country is that people simply do not CARE.....

And those that do know better, are so willfully ignorant that you cannot reach them.....

Willful Ignorance is almost impossible to combat, and the effect it has on people is frightening.....

When people are confronted with the facts and they cannot refute them, they get very angry, even violent.....They are THAT afraid of the Truth.....They don't want to hear it, they don't want to deal with it.....They so badly want to believe in the false reality that's been created for them, that they are actually willing to defend it rather than face the truth.....

Then you have the Freeper crowd....I am becoming convinced that although they are mostly cowards by nature, they would FIGHT AND DIE to defend the lies of this administration before they would EVER accept the truth.....We all know they are a scary crowd, but I have become convinced that these people are reaching a point where they CANNOT co-exist with people different from them any longer.....

There IS a Civil War going on in this country, and it is happening quietly....For now....But the divisions in this country are becoming so bad that something is going to come to a head....it's been building for decades, and how it hasn't erupted by now is beyond me, but I think we are very close.....

I think things are going to have to get quite catastrophic before they will ever get better.....

America is so broken, that a change in Power is not going to do the trick.....Whether it be Dean, Clark, Kucinich, Kerry, or any of the fine candidates we have running.....

Someone hearkened earlier to what they did to Clinton.....That is a perfect example, and even if we do win next year, the new President will wish that he had Clinton's troubles to deal with, because once again, I think the Neo-Con's would rather destroy this country than give up control of it.....

I think it is different this time, and I think we are facing a threat far worse han we can know......

The question is simple, and one that Sean Connery echoed many times in The Untouchables.....

"What Are You Prepared To Do?".....

We are running out of time, and the answers are not easy ones.....In my heart, some days I think I know what will have to be done, but like many I am afraid to face it, and I don't want to beleive it will come to that.....