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Crime: Questions We SHOULD be asking

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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-30-03 10:35 PM
Original message
Crime: Questions We SHOULD be asking
Edited on Sun Nov-30-03 10:42 PM by nothingshocksmeanymo
Why are we so willing to try juveniles as adults, and even execute them, because they are responsible for their actions, but so unwilling to apply high standards of personal responsibility for executives whose job is to run a company?

After 30 years of 'tough on crime' and mandatory sentencing schemes (even for 5 grams of crack) do we still not have decent laws to prosecute major financial crimes?

Why, soon after the S & L crisis, did Congress go on a wave of “cavalier” financial deregulation, creating a “paradox of increasing financial deregulation coming on the heels of the most catastrophic experiment with deregulation in history”
"civil forfeiture laws apply indiscriminately to property, regardless of the innocence of the owner, and render it subject to forfeiture if it is used unlawfully by anyone. Thus, the family home is fair game for forfeiture if a son, relative, or friend were to use it unlawfully--say, by using the telephone to arrange a drug purchase" . But the assets of many CEOs - including Ken Lay - have not been frozen.

http://www.paulsjusticepage.com/RichGetRicher/fraud.htm

One of the issues I really don't see any of the candidates addressing is PUNISHMENT for corporate criminals. Since I know I may have missed it, without cutting and pasting WHOLE articles, can you supply a BRIEF paragraph about your candidate's position on this issue and perhaps link to an article or twom without copying it?
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-30-03 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
1. Very good question
I hope some of the candidate supporters will links and brief summaries of thier candidate's view/policy stands on the issue of corporate crime.
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Zomby Woof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-01-03 02:29 AM
Response to Reply #1
9. seriously a good idea
But I can see the whole new realm of flame wars: "Dean is coddling white-collar criminals!"
"No, Clark is!"
"Eat worm dirt, you (candidate)-basher!"

Oh what fun! But my quarter goes far for my amusement.

*damn steel chairs are hard*
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TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-30-03 11:12 PM
Response to Original message
2. Not to stray too far off the subject...
I don't think we'll see too much change in corporate crime no matter who's in office. Can't see many Teddy Roosevelts on the horizon.

But, I did get this in my inbox today:

http://www.courier-journal.com/localnews/2003/11/27ky/met-front-warden1127-9300.html

I subscribe to a normally depressing anti-death penalty list-- there is rarely any good news on it, mostly the usual litany of rush-to-judgment, lousy defense, and accelerated appeals that aren't appeals anyway. Once in a while there's some good news, though, like this one.

This article got to me. There are some good guys in the system who have a sense of the ideal of justice.

How can we get more of them?

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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-30-03 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. I don't know but MIT has done some interesting studies the past
Edited on Sun Nov-30-03 11:30 PM by nothingshocksmeanymo
couple years really ripping apart the results of the "tough on crime" crowd. The interesting thing is this gentleman's perspectives are right in line with MIT. Who knows what he will do with the rest of his life but I really HOPE write a book is one of his projects.

on edit: I can see a Teddy on the horizon..Spitzer has indicated he would like to run for governor but what I WOULDn"T give to see him in Asscrack's job.
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-30-03 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. or at the least
taking over the SEC. But then again, we learned by Leavitt's experience, that given republicans in Congress - the SEC can be prevented from tougher enforcement by the power of the checkbook (eg Congress slashing the SEC budget.)
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TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-01-03 02:17 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. Any handy links?
Or authors I can look up? Did some goggling and came up with Gary Marx's work with Harvard Law, and a few other things, but thousands of irrelevant hits.

Did you know that when you google for MIT, you get a lot of German hits? ("Seite mit weiteren Links...")

And Spitzer... Yeah, I hope he's on all the candidates' short list for AG. You wanna see a lot of Senators sweat over that hearing...



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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-30-03 11:48 PM
Response to Original message
5. Picked a few URL's off of Howard Dean's website.
From a speech he made in Houston, Texas.

http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=10534

“Not far from here stands Enron Tower. It symbolizes all that is wrong with our country today.

At Enron, those at the top enriched themselves by deceiving everyone else and robbing ordinary people of the future they'd earned. And the Bush Administration is following their lead. They have created an economic program that enriches their friends and supporters at the expense of ordinary working Americans. A program deserving of the name -- Enron Economics.

We were promised fiscal responsibility. We've gotten a 9 trillion dollar increase in the nation's debt over ten years. We were told that tax cuts would reduce the deficit, but the government's chief auditor -- a Republican -- says that's flat false.

Enron Economics benefits those who make the most -- their share of the tax burden declined from 28 percent in the 1990s to nearly 20 percent today. Meanwhile, everyone else suffers -- cities and states across America are raising property taxes health insurance premiums and college tuition. Schools are closing and teachers and police officers are being laid off. Funding for Medicaid and housing is being cut â'" and our infrastructure continues to crumble.

We know what happened to Enron. Moral bankruptcy led to fiscal bankruptcy. And the ethos of Enron is where our politics and policies have led us in America.

But every one of us here today knows that Enron Tower marks the end of an era, because right here, less than one mile away, the new era is being born.

And it begins with you.

Next year we will defeat George Bush. But this is not just about electing a president -- it is about changing America. And next year will only prepare us for the work we will do the year after and ten years after and fifty years after that.

We are the wealthiest and most powerful society in the history of the world. We face big challenges. And we need big ideas to match them. When the people take back their government from the powerful few who control it, we will be able to make real change for the future of our country.

The government today is no longer working for all the people. We need a new social contract for the 21st century -- based on shared responsibility and on our country's deepest values. And it should also reflect the world we live in.

Today, there are 43 million Americans who don't have health insurance. But we can make health insurance affordable for everyone.
Today, prescription drugs are more important in treating our illnesses than they ever have been before. We can make medicine affordable for everyone.

Today, college is becoming more expensive just as a college diploma is becoming more of a necessity. But we can make sure that every student who pledges to finish high school will be guaranteed $10,000 a year in grants and loans to help pay for college.

Today, more families rely on the income of women than at any time in our history, both single-parent families and two-income families. But women are still not paid as much as men. We've got to eliminate the wage gap in this country -- it's the economic issue of the next century.

Today, more families have two working parents, and childcare is becoming almost as expensive as college. But we can make sure that childcare is affordable and accessible for all Americans who need it.

Today, our tax burden has been shifted to hard work, while wealth is taxed less and less and many wasteful companies are being subsidized -- companies that leave a mess of pollution for us to clean up, or are sending jobs overseas. But we can have a fair and simple tax code -- a moral tax code -- in which hard work is rewarded first and foremost, wealth pays more of its fair share, and corporations who contribute waste to our country will be penalized for doing so.

Today, economic power is being concentrated into fewer and fewer hands. But we can check the power of mega-businesses that make decisions which affect millions of us.

Today, there are new technologies which can be the foundation of our economy for the next century. We can invest aggressively in them, just as our nation did when it invested in railroads, in rural electrification, and in public roads and highways.

Today, our energy supply relies heavily on oil from countries that set the price that we pay for a gallon of gasoline and use our money to fund terrorism. But we can create an energy policy that is ours again, relying on sources that will never run out -- solar power, wind power, and ethanol and biomass. We will reduce our dependence on foreign oil 20% by the year 2020, as the energy policy of the next century begins to bear fruit. And it will create new jobs for decades to come.”

Also, other things he says about corporate America. I hope this helps.

http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=9537
http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=10177
http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=10534

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Military Brat Donating Member (999 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-30-03 11:58 PM
Response to Original message
6. Even juveniles enjoy the advantages of wealth in the courtroom
Not often you'll see wealthy kids being tried for any kind of crime. You don't even need to look beyond the bush family for that. Young or old, white or black, the difference in treatment is usually how much money does the family have. Some crimes never even come to public attention because the situation is "fixed" pronto.

In one instance of which I am personally aware, a wealthy man "had a breakdown." He shot at cats in his very exclusive neighborhood. When the police arrived, he threatened them and shot his pistol in the air during his tirade. What happpened to him? Well, nothing. But guess what? The sheriff's office has a brand-new SUV.

The outcome would have been the same if it had been the man's son or daughter. Money talks. It says, "Get me out of this."
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cthrumatrix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-01-03 02:20 AM
Response to Original message
8. it's called corruption and big business politics in the US..... these are
the same people that write our new bills...case and point is medicare reform...by big business for big business
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