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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-27-05 11:08 AM
Original message
Bob Barr (who called * regime Totalitarian) on Stephanie Miller *now* -
Edited on Tue Dec-27-05 11:09 AM by IndyOp
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-27-05 11:15 AM
Response to Original message
1. Too bad, for us, Bush didn't come before Clinton.
Maybe Bob would have been somewhat less enthusiatic about investigating Clinton's transgressions.
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nini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-27-05 11:15 AM
Response to Original message
2. It's guys like him that will help save this country
He is surprising me but I'm glad he's speaking up.
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-27-05 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. But he damn near destroyed it
Bob Barr had the Mother of All Hard-Ons for Bill Clinton. The voters of his district rewarded him with unemployment.

I'm glad that Barr has seen the light and has turned against the deceit and tyranny of George Bush, but nobody should forget how he tried to topple Clinton over a few half-assed romps with Monica Lewinsky. Barr's penance is yet incomplete.

--p!
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nini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-27-05 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. oh I know that
If he's willing to take this admin to task I have to give him credit now.

He actually has more credibility since he did go after Clinton like he did. He's showing not partisanship in his attacks.

I wanted to kick his ass over the Clinton stuff. BUT what we're facing now is so serious I can let it go and let the Barr's speak out.
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Catrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-27-05 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Yes, and Henry Hyde said recently that if
he had it to do over again, he would not support the Clinton impeachment. Maybe some people are just incapable of understanding a real threat to their country, until it actually occurs. Now they are seeing REAL impeachable offenses and I guess can finally make the comparison. Too bad they couldn't see it back then, but better late than never.

Bob Barr has been asked how he feels now about Clinton and he still says that it was the president lying that bothered him. That a president should not lie. I disagree that a lie about sex should ever be an impeachable offense, no one ever should have even brought it up, but at least he's consistent. I can disagree but respect that he isn't doing what the rest of the hypocrites are doing, defending the lies of this president regarding the war and his attacks on the Constitution.
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 02:52 AM
Response to Reply #5
11. Very good points (applies to Nini, too)
I'm not writing Barr off forever, and I am pleased that he has wised up. But many of the Republicans who were gung-ho Clinton haters have done little more than to justify their behavior, and Bob Barr was one of them.

If it really did come down to his deep and abiding distaste for Clinton's adjudicted "lie", Barr is going to have to elaborate. His remarks have the aroma of a man simply trying to get off the hook for gross misbehavior. He may be consistent on the details -- presidents should not lie -- but only with a completely legalistic, literalistic reading. I don't want to see Barr crawl, but I would like to hear him explain how his morality worked, given his actual behavior toward Democrats versus those in his own party. His various statements and judgements can not be summed up by saying "the President should not lie". He said a lot more, and to claim otherwise is itself a lie.

In addition, Barr seems oblivious to how much damage could have been done over the impeachment. That Clinton chose to accept significant undeserved blame escapes him. Also escaping him is a vision of the consequences that could have occurred had he succeeded.

The Really Big Thing that most historians neglect is that our country came much closer to wreckage than we realize. Clinton was compelled to bargain for his guilt to be accepted. If he had wanted to, he could have fought all charges tooth-and-nail and won easily. But Clinton felt that it would have caused a major, destructive political crisis that could not be managed by anyone, even him. And the Republicans -- including Barr -- wanted it that way. Their practice of brinksmanship worked brilliantly.

Think about what would have happened if Clinton had stood his ground and the GOP had engineered an impeachment and a conviction. It would have made the USA a very insecure place for foreign investors to place their money. With a split between the Legislative Branch and the Executive Branch, and a significant division among the people, a low-intensity civil war would be the next logical step, in the eyes of the investment firms. Any ensuing conflicts would not have had to be "warlike" at all (a simple verbal disagreement or two over the disposition of a state's National Guard would have sufficed) but all of North America would become poisoned ground for foreign investment -- for a long, long time.

The capital base of the USA could have easily lost 90, 95% of its value within a matter of weeks. The republic would have ground to a painful, destructive standstill. All because Bob Barr and his cronies were in a snit over Bill Clinton trying to cover up his juvenile grab-ass games? The House Impeachment committee members were either drunk on power, stoned on Mother Nature, or suffering from a collective brain tumor.

And Clinton would have gotten the blame. Cold comfort for 300,000,000 people facing a 20-year-long super-depression as Europe and Asia rolled the dice for our unserviceable, outstanding debts, like the Roman soldiers over Jesus' toga.

Similarly, if/when it comes to Mr. Bush's impeachment, we had better be damned careful of how we handle it; if we flush wrong, Bush has the connections to drag the country into the sewer behind him.

I don't think any of us would demand that Barr dine on crow, crawl in the mud, oink like a pig, lick our boots, request a sound flogging, and call us "Master" and "Mistress". But unless he's holding back for that tell-all memoir, he owes us some sense of perspective as to why our country had to suffer such political trauma over an offense that was effectively unprosecutable. (That is, not an offense at all.)

That's why I think Barr and the rest still have their share of political explanations to make. It isn't simply that they were the ultimate losers, but that they were wrong to prosecute Clinton the way they did. They nearly did drive the country to ruin. And in the interest of the public's right to know WTF happened, their political rehabilitation should depend on them simply making a clean breast of it.

--p!
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ConsAreLiars Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 03:05 AM
Response to Reply #4
12. How does beng a hypocrite, liar, and a part of the fascist coup attempt
against Clinton give him "credibility"? I don't mind having wackos of the far right like the militia movements and Barr and other crazies howling about their rights being trampled, but the suggestion that his dishonest and vicious attacks on democracy and the Constitution during the impeachment process give him "credibility," well, I don't see it that way at all.
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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 03:23 AM
Response to Reply #3
15. He hasn't turned; there is no 'light' that he has seen.
This is just the same sh*t on a different day.

The fact that he is CORRECT this time is just luck;
he'd be doing the same 'frothing attack-dog' routine on President Gore
if we had real elections nowadays.

He's not a man of principle or conviction;
he's just a Limbaugh wannabe who did not succeed
and is try, trying again.


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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 03:07 AM
Response to Reply #2
14. I hope so
I hope he can get more people on board too.
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deadmessengers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-27-05 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
6. I lived in his district
BOY I was glad to be rid of him when we bounced him out on his ass a few years back. It's interesting how, now that he doesn't have to worry about running for re-election, he's not afraid to differ from the Repugnican party line.

I'm starting to actually like this guy. (shudder)
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MidwestTransplant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-27-05 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
7. Has his opinion on the WOD changed at all?
It seems totally inconsistent with his semi Libertarian pronunciations.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-27-05 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
8. Well, let's hope some more of these politically conservative
"born again as Americans first" start saying and doing what needs to be done to rid our country of these destructive neo-cons. Let's hope more of them start saying, "I'm an American first, and a Republican second." This is what I believe is happening to Bob Barr.
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tulsakatz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-27-05 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
9. certainly they shouldn't have done that to Clinton..........
........but I'm very glad Barr is speaking out about Bush and the spying situation!

The way I see it is, what they did to Clinton was just plain wrong! But at this point, it's history now........there's nothing that can be done now to change the impeachment against Clinton. And I think to have someone like Barr (who was such a central figure in that situation) speaking out about Bush lends more credibility to the argument! And it just validates the Democrat's position.

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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-27-05 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. I think they can and must apologize for the Clinton impeachment -
The way to wake up the conditioned-to-hate-Clinton fundies is for their leaders to contrast the seriousness of the 'offenses' --

I completely agree that anyone who will speak out against the * regime is doing the right thing now.

:kick:
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tulsakatz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #10
16. that would be nice.......
.....although I won't hold my breath waiting for the apology.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 03:06 AM
Response to Original message
13. Thanks
I'll have to listen to the archives. I now can since that was a Christmas present from my dad (joining her podcast for a year). :D
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