So I'm thinking of going to Bagdad, maybe Afghanistan. Anyone else

[radwriter0555]

want to go? A Democratic Underground Delegation?

Why?

To see for ourselves what is going on there. Eyewitnesses. Evidence. To tell the truth.

Videocameras. Tape recorders. Cameras.

Who's got the balls?

[gWbush is Mabus]

1. write your will first

[Skittles]

2. ARE *BALLS* A REQUIREMENT

PLEASE EXPLAIN x(

[radwriter0555]

4. Guts, cajones, intestinal fortitude? It ain't hawaii ya know...

Those are the places where reporters get murdered for telling the truth.

[HEyHEY]

12. You forgot Stugats!

[Skittles]

18. just do not insinuate

that BALLS are necessary for COURAGE.

[CWebster]

3. Kathy Kelly

of Voices in the Wilderness

http://www.nonviolence.org/vitw/

A good place to start.

[radwriter0555]

6. GREAT site, how has she managed to stay alive so long? Usually

the covert ops take a dissident like her out long before now.

Amazing, thanks for the site!

[CWebster]

8. Saw her last night

give a talk about the reality of life in Iraq with Bishop Tom Gumbleton of Detroit.

She still sings in a beautiful clear voice full of hope.

[NNN0LHI]

5. I am going to be busy that weekend n/t

[maggrwaggr]

7. Do it! Do it for the people who can't go, like myself

I've got kids at home. If I didn't, I'd be all for it.

Go go go!!! We need more eyes and ears over there.

[DuctapeFatwa]

9. Don't post about it on public message boards

nt

[tlcandie]

10. Great idea and hope you live to tell the story...

I just hope that there isn't anything in your life that those who are hiding the truth can use against you to discount your documentation.

If you have anything at all to hide or to lose then you will be on the short end of the stick and they might not let you come back if you make too much or a stir. You could end up in gitmo.

I'm not saying don't go and that it isn't a great idea. Just would advise you to consider ALL the consequences of this decision, weigh them and then decide!

Power to ya rad!! :bounce: Maybe the idea would work if we could get tons of us to go over there!!! Dunno :shrug:

[HEyHEY]

11. I'd love to go

I mean that sincerely too. But, I don't have the money...sigh.

[Jacobin]

13. How would you get there?

As a practical matter, there is no commercial air traffic into Iraq the last I heard.

Guess you would have to fly into to say Jordan and take a bus and cross into Iraq?

I'm thinking they aren't allowing anyone into Iraq without some government approval. Which would mean you'd have to smuggle yourself in.

Hmm. Not for the feint of heart.

[amazona]

16. people are traveling there, check out lonely planet

I'll try to put some links from their discussion forum where people talk about their recent visits to Iraq. It looks like the bus from Jordan is indeed one way to go.

OK, here is the best discussion from Oct. 7 from a recent traveler:

http://thorntree.lonelyplanet.com/messagepost.cfm?postaction=reply&catid=18&threadid=289526&messid=2433281&STARTPAGE=1&parentid=0&from=1

If the link doesn't work, go to the lonely planet site, click on the Middle East discussion on the "thorn tree" (their name for discussion forums) and search for "Going to Iraq (or not)."

Supposedly they haven't lost any backpackers yet so maybe tourists are safer than reporters, soldiers, etc. I wouldn't necessarily share my plans with my insurance provider, though. The advice to avoid hitching rides on SUVs and caravans sounds valid to me, although I really have no way to judge. I don't travel except for family matters or birdwatching myself but I hope if you do decide to go that you will publish your adventures online.


looking forward to reading your report

[TreasonousBastard]

14. Interesting idea.

It involves some serious stones-- not only the dangers of travelling over there, but the dangers in coming back.

I doubt TPTB at DU would be interested in the legal hassles of being associated with such a venture, but you need do some serious organizing. You need ways to get in and out, local contracts, some logistics, maybe even some safe houses.

And a damn good lawyer for your return. If you can return. There is a young woman known to our Quaker meeting who has been held in Italy, of all places, for years for being in the wrong place at the wrong time during some demonstration. They can easily get you at the gateways-- getting off an airplane is often not any easier than getting on one.

Probably the most important thing is an outlet for these eyewitness accounts, and the ability to make them credible. You're up against some powerful forces that will ridicule any accounts from over there, and do what they can to make them disappear.

[Guaranteed]

15. Of course, the more potential for credibility you have,

the less likely you are to be coming back.

[amazona]

17. possible suggestion ?

The lonely planet discussion I linked has some comments about personal safety in Iraq. It does sound like cameras should be used with great care if they should be used at all. Some professional news photographers have been killed by mistake; apparently from a distance the glint of light off a lens can make it look like a weapon. Perhaps she does not need to bring a camera but simply an honest perspective and a way with words. Or perhaps a small tourist type digital camera would not entail the same risks? Here is a thread which tells where to find some internet cafes in Iraq:

http://thorntree.lonelyplanet.com/messagepost.cfm?postaction=reply&catid=18&threadid=293880&messid=2489464&STARTPAGE=1&parentid=0&from=1

If she could post a blog of her observations while on the scene, there would be less reason for the U.S. authorities to stop her from returning home, because her point of view would already be on the internet. Or so it seems to me off-hand. If this is a bad idea, feel free to poke holes in it because this is just a suggestion that might not be fully thought out as yet.


we swamphens were distressed to hear stories of the destruction of the iraqi wetlands

[Terwilliger]

19. I'll go!

And I have plenty of photographic equipment!

[radwriter0555]

20. COOL. I'm absolutely serious. How on earth does one organize such a

trip anyway?

I suppose airfares are the first place to start...

[LoneStarLiberal]

23. Take It Offline...

My advice to you is to take the real planning part of your recon offline. It's too easy to troll bulletin boards, online forums, and newsgroups looking for keyword strings with simple string-capture software (a different version of something like an XML-enabled newsreader).

At the very least the State Department will not look kindly on planning a group outing to Iraq at this time...better to keep it under wraps.

I am the last in the tinfoil hat line, but I would also suggest using PGP encrypted email addresses (such as Hushmail) to discuss the meat and potatoes of such an endeavor.

[radwriter0555]

26. eh, these people don't scare me. I have no nefarious intent, nor

interest in doing anything covert, subversive or illegal. I'm just a chick who wants to see the world, and find out the truth for myself.

It looks REAL tough to get into Iraq, and even illegal in fact, unless one is a reporter. I've got some research to do.

[amazona]

29. not clear to me that it is illegal to travel there

Like I said, visit the discussion forum at the lonelyplanet.com website. People are clearly traveling there to Iraq for fairly random reasons and posting about their travels.

Anyone can be a reporter. Create a website or a blog, and voila you're a reporter. But if you look at the links I posted above, you will notice that these travelers didn't pose as reporters or anything else. Indeed, they seem to have traveled to Iraq because they were bored and wanted something "different." If they can travel there for such trivial reasons, it can't be that hard to get in and out of the country.

Another option would be to draw up a book proposal for a small press. If you have an assignment to create a book, even if you haven't got a finished book yet, you may be surprised at how helpful people are. A famous woman traveler who wrote children's books -- I'm not kidding, children's books -- was able to be invited into Nicaragua to observe the early days of the Sandanista revolution. Her name is slipping my mind; might it be Rita Gelman?

The State Department says that you cannot "officially" travel to Iraq on your U.S. passport but then gives some information on how to be admitted at the border and says later that restrictions on U.S. passports have been lifted. So it sounds like you can indeed travel there, although having relatives there or being a reporter or whatever might make a better story than "I just felt like wandering over and getting in the way," as some official or other might interpret it. Nonetheless, random tourists are obviously being admitted so take the advice for what it is worth.

If I were planning such a trip, I would hang out on the boards where other people take such trips. The comebackalive and thorntree/lonelyplanet boards are probably the place to start. Since you are not planning anything illegal, I don't see why you should be afraid to fully investigate your options.

I'm about to go out of town myself but look forward to hearing more about your plans when I get back. Best wishes to you whatever you decide. There will always be naysayers, but if this is your dream, this could be a very valuable and informative project.



here's the state department url:
http://travel.state.gov/iraq.html

[LoneStarLiberal]

21. May I Suggest A Resource?

Having travelled in two combat zones, it was MUCH better the second time since I had the luxury of The World's Most Dangerous Places. At the time of my trip the information contained in RYP (Robert Young Pelton's) book was still very germane to the situation I was entering. The Iraq information in the latest edition is pre-war and while I am certain some of it will be of use, it will be dated.

My two experiences were Tajikistan and Georgia, both back in the Good Old 1990s.

You might try their bulletin board site, . There's a lot of noise on it but there is also the occasional diamond of information to be found.

[HFishbine]

22. I'd rather go to Afghanistan

and help build schools, or dig wells -- you know, to try to mitigate some of our damage. Anybody know of a group seeking voluteers?

[radwriter0555]

24. Problem with that is that so many so-called relief groups are fronts for

intelligence operations. So choose your orgs wisely and do a lot of research.

Tough business.

[HFishbine]

25. Right

But still open to suggestions...

[Terwilliger]

27. so, when are we leaving?

:shrug:

[bearfartinthewoods]

28. hmmm...maybe replace balls with courage or guts?