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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-03 12:55 PM
Original message
Please help In re voting machines
Edited on Thu Jul-17-03 01:05 PM by dsc
My county has decided on the machines they want for 2004. It is the eslate by Hart Intercivic out of Austin TX. I tried to access their website but can't due to being on webtv. Does anyone have any idea what this company's track record is? I do have a brochure and have seen the actual machine. My local Democratic chair explained how it works. So I do have a general idea. One thing I forgot to ask is if the access number they use is stored with the vote. So that if things were disputed knowing what ballot number I had would do any good. Please let me know any info you have.

Thanks.
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-03 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
1. You might put a note in Bev Harris's in box
She might not click on the thread with just the title "Please Help"..there is still time left..how about "Please help re: voting machines"
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-03 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
2. kick
kick
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-03 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
3. kick
:kick:
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RedEagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-03 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
4. Same problem...
No voter verified paper ballot with this machine, either.

Therefore, no audit trail.

If they store an access number they give you, with your vote, then your vote is not secret any more. I believe votes will get a number, or some kind of Id, but it is randomized. There can be nothing that connects the vote to you. Without a paper ballot you verify and then put in a ballot box (or the machine does it for you), there is no way to insure that what you voted was recorded by the machine correctly.

Read on on Bev's site for how machines keep two sets of books.

I don't have the background on Hart, but some companies might use other's software. Of course, there is alwas the reality that the Diebold site was wide open for anyone to download from, Diebold related or not.

Oh, you better ask your county person if the machines they are purchasing will meet the 2002 specs? I don't think any company has yet made certification with those specs, although a couple can meet the specs with current machines, because they designed them to from the ground up.

Those machine specs will have to be met by 2006, no grandfather clause, either. Could be that the county just signed into a "deal" that will cost them a whole bunch of money in expensive- and mandated- upgrades later. I assume the Hart doesn't meet those specs. Worth checking out.

I wonder if the big companies aren't salivating at the thought of selling machines they know will have to soon be upgraded.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-03 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. In Ohio
we will have a list of machines which meet the federal standard, the chair is under the impression this one does. All places will have to purchase from this list. The intention of our county is to use them very limitedly in the August 5, 2003 school levy election for a city by my town. My dad will actually be voting on one of these machines.

By Primary day in 04, which is Mar 2 or Mar 9, they intend to have them all in place. The basic idea is that there is one record on the machine and two records on the hard drive. They are all electronic. They are not touch screen voting machines but instead are some sort of dial deal. You twist a dial until you highlight the candidate you want and then vote for him or her. On each page will be only one race. After you have finished all the pages you get a list of who you voted for and then either ratify your ballot or go back and change it.

I realized that they wouldn't have some grand list of numbers but I figured that the record would be stored with the number and thus if I remembered the number then my vote could be compared with what I knew my vote to have been.
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RedEagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-03 03:43 PM
Response to Original message
5. Same problem...
No voter verified paper ballot with this machine, either.

Therefore, no audit trail.

If they store an access number they give you, with your vote, then your vote is not secret any more. I believe votes will get a number, or some kind of Id, but it is randomized. There can be nothing that connects the vote to you. Without a paper ballot you verify and then put in a ballot box (or the machine does it for you), there is no way to insure that what you voted was recorded by the machine correctly.

Read on on Bev's site for how machines keep two sets of books.

I don't have the background on Hart, but some companies might use other's software. Of course, there is alwas the reality that the Diebold site was wide open for anyone to download from, Diebold related or not.

Oh, you better ask your county person if the machines they are purchasing will meet the 2002 specs? I don't think any company has yet made certification with those specs, although a couple can meet the specs with current machines, because they designed them to from the ground up.

Those machine specs will have to be met by 2006, no grandfather clause, either. Could be that the county just signed into a "deal" that will cost them a whole bunch of money in expensive- and mandated- upgrades later. I assume the Hart doesn't meet those specs. Worth checking out.

I wonder if the big companies aren't salivating at the thought of selling machines they know will have to soon be upgraded.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-03 10:42 PM
Response to Original message
7. kick
:kick:
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