Prayer in School

[YOY]

I recently heard some fundie rant about prayer in school. Obviously she focused about being persecuted because of her religion and railed that other religions are treated better than her "true christians" are.

I went to a Catholic school and we did have special masses but never really prayed outside of religion class (and when I did I put my own words in there for humor value.) We did have some non-Catholics students and faculty and they were excused from the religious services. I did get some detentions (mostly in religon class) for being a smartass but I was never singled out or villified for this.

Could someone explain to me if someone is actually persecuted for getting down on their knees and praying in public schools? Are detentions given? I've never even heard of anyone getting in trouble for praying in Public school. I thought it was against the law to hold formal prayer before class and that's what the fundies were pissed about.

What's really the story? Someone enlighten me please.

[Jaundice James]

1. It's mostly spin and myth...

The problem is when a teacher or other school offical leads a class or sports team in prayer.

It's permissible for a student to pray on his or her own if they desire to do so, and the ACLU WILL protect that right. -JJ

[bleedingheart]

2. this is what I always say....

school is for learning reading writing and arithmetic...

if you want to teach your kids to pray at home and church that is just fine...

BUT...prayer in schools makes no difference if the kid has parents fighting with one another, parents who abuse him, parents who do not go over homework or are too interested in themselves...prayer won't fill an empty stomach and it won't make math or english any clearer...

so....for all the dipshits that think prayer in school makes a difference...clearly they need to figure out what they are doing to make a child's life better rather than trying to fix it with a few spoken words...

[FreedomAngel82]

10. You forgot one thing

You have to believe in prayer for it to mean anything to you and thus believing someone is listening. If you don't believe in that than it won't mean anything either.

[Warpy]

3. Kids are rotten

I remember in public school in NC, being shunted off to the library three times a week during babble class (my mother was Irish Catholic, I had a Jewish last name, and I was far too much of a smartass for them). Just being out of class was enough of an identifier to set the bullies in my direction.

No, there was no official punishment for being outside Southern Baptist orthodoxy. The unofficial punishment was worse.

I would prefer to see religion and prayer kept where they are done best, in the various churches, temples, mosques, and whatever. There should be no officially sanctioned religion of any sort in a public school, although I'm sure believer kids will continue to pray silently before every test.

[YOY]

17. Nobody ever said anything nasty to the non-Catholic kids at my school

Not to my knowledge at least. I guess American Catholics (at least where I grew up) are better than the fundies in that aspect...

and we even had a Jewish teacher (advanced Calculus). We all loved Harv.

Sorry to hear about the unoffical punishment.

[nini]

4. prayer is ok in school.. just not part of the curiculum and led by ..

a teacher or admin.


they're twisting this...

[Ron Green]

5. As long as there is calculus.....

there will be prayer in school.

[FreedomAngel82]

11. LOL

Oh too true!! I know all about that but for me it's algebra. I never had to take calculus.

[Mountainman]

6. You can pray all day long in school. How can someone stop you praying to

your god? You just can't make a nuisance of your self by praying out loud in class etc.

What fundies really want is to force others to say fundie prayers in school. Fundies are some of the biggest liars in the country.

[misternormal]

20. They want fundamental christianity as the state religion.

And that is that... tell it like it is...

Soon there will be an attempt to introduce an amendment to the constitution that will allow that to happen.

[WolverineDG]

7. drive them batshit crazy

show them the mergens decision. basically, the supremes stated that if a school allowed student groups on campus that were not tied to curriculum (such as the french club, spanish club, band, etc) then that school had to allow ANY student group to organize. mergens wanted a bible study or prayer group, the school said no. initially, this decision was lauded by the fundies more than jesus would be at the second coming.

then some gay kids in utah decided they wanted to form a support group for themselves at schoool & then mergens was a bad decision.

but this whole "i'm persecuted because i can't pray or read my bible in school" whining is absolute bullshit. what they really want is to force prayer, the bible, and their very narrow interpretation of christianity down everyone else's throats.

dg

[FreedomAngel82]

12. Exactly

It's all about control and they're being selfish and nothing more than hypocrites. I'm getting tired of it!

[YOY]

18. It's pretty much what I supposed it would be

Just fundie ranting...more if it...

[FreedomAngel82]

8. It's all phoney

I went to a public school and I prayed during the moment of silence and I prayed before lunch and a test and things like that. I remember I got to school around 7:10am est and always there would be a group of kids around the flag pole praying in silence. They never bothered anybody and anybody was welcome to come if they wanted. I remember being a freshman and sopohmore and at games they had a led prayer but than it changed to a moment of silence. I remember being uncomfortable with the prayer thing and I'm a Christian. :shrug: And at my school we even had a Bible History class (it was kind of like if you were taking US History but with the Bible and the teacher couldn't preach to you) and anyone could take it and nobody was threatned if they didn't (it was an optional class to take instead of another one you didn't care for). Oh and I graduated high school in 2001 so I doubt things have changed too much since I've been gone.

[ktowntennesseedem]

9. As long as they keep giving tests in school,

there will still be prayer in school.

[triguy46]

13. Each time I hear a fundie bring this up....

I ask if they want their child to pray under the direction and supervision of a:
Mormon
Jew
Catholic
Jehovah's Witness
7th day Adventist
Hindi
Buddist
Rastafarian
Moslem
Church of Islam
this usually slows them down. Then they restart with the "Generic Prayer" and I reply, "Does God respond to unfeeling, uncomprehending, corporate prayer?" That slows them down again. They go away mad at me, and probably save their rant for some one else, I'm not optimistic enough to think that reason or logic will sway their Jihad. But it does make me feel a little better.

[Broken_Hero]

23. Thats what I usually

say to people who want prayer in school, and also the intelligent design folks...it usually slows them down a lot....cause churches don't like each other denomination that much either....

[triguy46]

24. Abslolutely. In the fundie "world view"

everyone is just like them.

[seabeyond]

14. they have silent moment (prayer) in public here, ..... no one would

get in trouble for dropping on knees and praying, it would be praised

when i was in school in az we never prayed in school. so this putting prayer back in school baffles me

my 2nd grader yesterday told me he was the only one in class not to go to church. how do you know i asked him. teacher asked what churches we went to and he was the only on that didnt have a church

religionn is well and good in school today

though i dont recall it ever being in school in my day, or my fathers day two decades earlier

[RB TexLa]

15. most states and school districts use the language

That a student can pray, meditate or whatever so long as it doesn't disrupt the educational process so a kid silently praying during a test would be ok. Someone jumping up during the middle of class to dance around and speak in tongues probably wouldn't be. Most schools are pretty accommodating, I know some of the schools around here let Muslim students sit near the doors and at prayer time they go outside have their prayers and then return to class.



edit typos

[madeline_con]

16. Well, let's see, there's "Christ on Campus".....

which meets before and/or after school in whichever classroom the teacher involved in it happens to teach.

Then, there are the coworkers I have who say "Excuse me", and say grace before they eat their lunch.

There are the discussions about "Left Behind" movies and where to catch one this weekend, and the true meaning of a particular scripture at odd moments if the subject comes up.

There's a church group that meets in our classroom on weekends, and keeps moving our clock to the class next door, destroyed all the solar powered calculators by jabbing the cells with pencils and can't leave our wheelchair alone....


Yep, they're definitely persecuted in my area!

[upi402]

21. really, they use auditoriums for church, classes for groups, and

hand bibles and crap out in the parking lot where you have to pass to get to campus.

Poor poor persecuted favored group.

[upi402]

19. what does fundy think of praying to mecca during class?

[WritingIsMyReligion]

22. Oh for FUCK's sake.

I will never pray in school. Never. Even if I abstain just to piss off the fundies. It's RIDICULOUS, stupid, and utterly unconstitutional.